Do The Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

[danielpalos]

specifics about what? I am still trying to define the situation.

What, precisely, is "fair share"?

Here are the current marginal tax rates, let's go with Married Filing Jointly:

Current capital gains rates:
AGI in the 10% and 15% brackets: 0%
AGI in the 25%, 33% & 35% brackets: 15%
AGI in the 39.6% bracket: 20%

Federal Estate Tax Exemption:
$5,430,000

Let's see if we can get folks to show some specifics here.

Given all current laws, credits and deductions, what would you do?

.

How do we define fair? Isn't "fair" a social concept and not a capital concept.

In this case, it's both. It's society deciding how to distribute and control capital.

So what would you do, specifically, based on the above information?

.

Solve simple poverty on an at-will basis by reserving labor at the rock bottom cost of a form of minimum wage that clears our poverty guidelines in order to abolish capitalism's natural rate of unemployment on an at-will basis through natural rights and Individual Liberty.

it means you need a clue and a Cause; otherwise, you are all hearsay and soothsay.

 

[danielpalos]

There is a re-cap in the last few pages; but, here is a summary for your ease and convenience: we can distinguish between Capitalists with capital and Laborists with labor usually on a capital gains versus earned income basis. that should work in any given scenario.

So you're saying to make cap gains tax rates the same as earned income tax rates?

.

no. it was merely a distinction for clarification to actually begin arguing.

However, let's start with a moral point. Is an Iron Age work ethic of "work or die" really appropriate in one of the world's largest economies in modern Information Age times. And, if it is appropriate, is it also an injunction on wealthy capitalists regardless of wealthy or, only an injunction on Only the least wealthy merely due to a lack of wealth.

I guess I'm looking for more specifics here.

.

specifics about what? I am still trying to define the situation.

And doing a fantastically incoherent job at it, I might add.

nothing but Repeal; as usual, person on the Right.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How those who never had a real job could manage anything? Let me remind you, the same guys are managing AmTrak, Post Office, Education, Fannie & Freddie... successfully? Yeah, libertarians don't get it.

But you do.

How have they never had a real job? By the way, I went to my mailbox today and I was totally surprised, just like I have been every other fucking weekday of my life in that there was mail in it.

I've worked for the USPS. You SHOULD be surprised.

You should be embarrassed. Leaching off honest tax payers and what not.

Hardly. I had a valuable skill set, and they were the highest bidder for the leasing of that skill set. Capitalism, my dear dunderhead: the free exchange of goods or services for remuneration.

Learn the difference between taking a handout from the government and doing business with them. Moron.

Oh, OK then what you are saying is government employees are ambitious and can get shit done. Thank you.

Nope, I'm saying some are, and some are not. If I were to judge by the USPS, I'd say most are not, in fact. You should possibly learn not to overgeneralize.

You're quite welcome for the numerous lessons you have learned about real life from this conversation. No charge.

 

[HappyJoy]

How have they never had a real job? By the way, I went to my mailbox today and I was totally surprised, just like I have been every other fucking weekday of my life in that there was mail in it.

I've worked for the USPS. You SHOULD be surprised.

You should be embarrassed. Leaching off honest tax payers and what not.

Hardly. I had a valuable skill set, and they were the highest bidder for the leasing of that skill set. Capitalism, my dear dunderhead: the free exchange of goods or services for remuneration.

Learn the difference between taking a handout from the government and doing business with them. Moron.

Oh, OK then what you are saying is government employees are ambitious and can get shit done. Thank you.

Nope, I'm saying some are, and some are not. If I were to judge by the USPS, I'd say most are not, in fact. You should possibly learn not to overgeneralize.

You're quite welcome for the numerous lessons you have learned about real life from this conversation. No charge.

Are you saying that working for the government is a handout or not? And you should also learn not to over gernalrize, I've worked with plenty of people in the private sector, many...half are lazy fucks. But I bet that according to you has nothing to do with who they work for.

 

[JFish123]

40% is fair enough


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Spare_change]

How those who never had a real job could manage anything? Let me remind you, the same guys are managing AmTrak, Post Office, Education, Fannie & Freddie... successfully? Yeah, libertarians don't get it.

But you do.

How have they never had a real job? By the way, I went to my mailbox today and I was totally surprised, just like I have been every other fucking weekday of my life in that there was mail in it.

I've worked for the USPS. You SHOULD be surprised.

You should be embarrassed. Leaching off honest tax payers and what not.

Hardly. I had a valuable skill set, and they were the highest bidder for the leasing of that skill set. Capitalism, my dear dunderhead: the free exchange of goods or services for remuneration.

Learn the difference between taking a handout from the government and doing business with them. Moron.

Oh, OK then what you are saying is government employees are ambitious and can get shit done. Thank you.

Surely, you jest .... for a second there, I thought I had wandered into the Comedy Room.

 

[HappyJoy]

How have they never had a real job? By the way, I went to my mailbox today and I was totally surprised, just like I have been every other fucking weekday of my life in that there was mail in it.

I've worked for the USPS. You SHOULD be surprised.

You should be embarrassed. Leaching off honest tax payers and what not.

Hardly. I had a valuable skill set, and they were the highest bidder for the leasing of that skill set. Capitalism, my dear dunderhead: the free exchange of goods or services for remuneration.

Learn the difference between taking a handout from the government and doing business with them. Moron.

Oh, OK then what you are saying is government employees are ambitious and can get shit done. Thank you.

Surely, you jest .... for a second there, I thought I had wandered into the Comedy Room.

I do jest. I jest (or whatever) when people say government employees lack ambition...as opposed to the private sector. People go to school, college, work up the ranks in government just like they do in the private sector. That was my point. Not obvious enough?

 

[Ernie S.]

So you're saying to make cap gains tax rates the same as earned income tax rates?

.

no. it was merely a distinction for clarification to actually begin arguing.

However, let's start with a moral point. Is an Iron Age work ethic of "work or die" really appropriate in one of the world's largest economies in modern Information Age times. And, if it is appropriate, is it also an injunction on wealthy capitalists regardless of wealthy or, only an injunction on Only the least wealthy merely due to a lack of wealth.

I guess I'm looking for more specifics here.

.

specifics about what? I am still trying to define the situation.

And doing a fantastically incoherent job at it, I might add.

nothing but Repeal; as usual, person on the Right.

Incoherent; as usual, person on the left

 

[Spare_change]

I've worked for the USPS. You SHOULD be surprised.

You should be embarrassed. Leaching off honest tax payers and what not.

Hardly. I had a valuable skill set, and they were the highest bidder for the leasing of that skill set. Capitalism, my dear dunderhead: the free exchange of goods or services for remuneration.

Learn the difference between taking a handout from the government and doing business with them. Moron.

Oh, OK then what you are saying is government employees are ambitious and can get shit done. Thank you.

Surely, you jest .... for a second there, I thought I had wandered into the Comedy Room.

I do jest. I jest (or whatever) when people say government employees lack ambition...as opposed to the private sector. People go to school, college, work up the ranks in government just like they do in the private sector. That was my point. Not obvious enough?

That's sum funny shit right thar ..... I worked with government employees for 40 years. You can count the good ones on your fingers and toes ... civil service is nothing more than welfare day care.

 

[HappyJoy]

You should be embarrassed. Leaching off honest tax payers and what not.

Hardly. I had a valuable skill set, and they were the highest bidder for the leasing of that skill set. Capitalism, my dear dunderhead: the free exchange of goods or services for remuneration.

Learn the difference between taking a handout from the government and doing business with them. Moron.

Oh, OK then what you are saying is government employees are ambitious and can get shit done. Thank you.

Surely, you jest .... for a second there, I thought I had wandered into the Comedy Room.

I do jest. I jest (or whatever) when people say government employees lack ambition...as opposed to the private sector. People go to school, college, work up the ranks in government just like they do in the private sector. That was my point. Not obvious enough?

That's sum funny shit right thar ..... I worked with government employees for 40 years. You can count the good ones on your fingers and toes ... civil service is nothing more than welfare day care.

My point being that I don't care what your personal feelings are. Government employees are lazier than private sector? prove it. I don't mean mean for you to post anecdotes but to statistically prove it.

 

[danielpalos]

no. it was merely a distinction for clarification to actually begin arguing.

However, let's start with a moral point. Is an Iron Age work ethic of "work or die" really appropriate in one of the world's largest economies in modern Information Age times. And, if it is appropriate, is it also an injunction on wealthy capitalists regardless of wealthy or, only an injunction on Only the least wealthy merely due to a lack of wealth.

I guess I'm looking for more specifics here.

.

specifics about what? I am still trying to define the situation.

And doing a fantastically incoherent job at it, I might add.

nothing but Repeal; as usual, person on the Right.

Incoherent; as usual, person on the left

However, let's start with a moral point. Is an Iron Age work ethic of "work or die" really appropriate in one of the world's largest economies in modern Information Age times. And, if it is appropriate, is it also an injunction on wealthy capitalists regardless of wealth or, only an injunction on Only the least wealthy merely due to a lack of wealth.

 

[Geaux4it]

People become rich because they pay less for EVERYTHING

More power to them. Just more incentive to reach their pool

-Geaux

 

[Spare_change]

Hardly. I had a valuable skill set, and they were the highest bidder for the leasing of that skill set. Capitalism, my dear dunderhead: the free exchange of goods or services for remuneration.

Learn the difference between taking a handout from the government and doing business with them. Moron.

Oh, OK then what you are saying is government employees are ambitious and can get shit done. Thank you.

Surely, you jest .... for a second there, I thought I had wandered into the Comedy Room.

I do jest. I jest (or whatever) when people say government employees lack ambition...as opposed to the private sector. People go to school, college, work up the ranks in government just like they do in the private sector. That was my point. Not obvious enough?

That's sum funny shit right thar ..... I worked with government employees for 40 years. You can count the good ones on your fingers and toes ... civil service is nothing more than welfare day care.

My point being that I don't care what your personal feelings are. Government employees are lazier than private sector? prove it. I don't mean mean for you to post anecdotes but to statistically prove it.

Frankly, that's a chicken-shit way to avoid a discussion .... have fun.

 

[HappyJoy]

Oh, OK then what you are saying is government employees are ambitious and can get shit done. Thank you.

Surely, you jest .... for a second there, I thought I had wandered into the Comedy Room.

I do jest. I jest (or whatever) when people say government employees lack ambition...as opposed to the private sector. People go to school, college, work up the ranks in government just like they do in the private sector. That was my point. Not obvious enough?

That's sum funny shit right thar ..... I worked with government employees for 40 years. You can count the good ones on your fingers and toes ... civil service is nothing more than welfare day care.

My point being that I don't care what your personal feelings are. Government employees are lazier than private sector? prove it. I don't mean mean for you to post anecdotes but to statistically prove it.

Frankly, that's a chicken-shit way to avoid a discussion .... have fun.

How so? I say something you don't like and you call it chicken shit. Give me a reason to care?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Oh, OK then what you are saying is government employees are ambitious and can get shit done. Thank you.

Surely, you jest .... for a second there, I thought I had wandered into the Comedy Room.

I do jest. I jest (or whatever) when people say government employees lack ambition...as opposed to the private sector. People go to school, college, work up the ranks in government just like they do in the private sector. That was my point. Not obvious enough?

That's sum funny shit right thar ..... I worked with government employees for 40 years. You can count the good ones on your fingers and toes ... civil service is nothing more than welfare day care.

My point being that I don't care what your personal feelings are. Government employees are lazier than private sector? prove it. I don't mean mean for you to post anecdotes but to statistically prove it.

Frankly, that's a chicken-shit way to avoid a discussion .... have fun.

Learn to put your money where your mouth is.

 

[ninja007]

The question for conservatives on this thread should be what they think they can gain for the greater good by shifting the tax burden sharply downward. They complain about the unfair rates of taxation on the top and the bottom paying nothing. I see that complaint and wonder how much they think they can get out of the working poor just to make life easier for the wealthy.

can you read? The richest 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90%.

 

[Ernie S.]

I guess I'm looking for more specifics here.

.

specifics about what? I am still trying to define the situation.

And doing a fantastically incoherent job at it, I might add.

nothing but Repeal; as usual, person on the Right.

Incoherent; as usual, person on the left

However, let's start with a moral point. Is an Iron Age work ethic of "work or die" really appropriate in one of the world's largest economies in modern Information Age times. And, if it is appropriate, is it also an injunction on wealthy capitalists regardless of wealth or, only an injunction on Only the least wealthy merely due to a lack of wealth.

When you can construct an understandable argument, I will begin to take you seriously. Until then, I suggest you put down the bong.

FYI, I never said work or die. I have been saying all along that a little hunger is a great motivator.
I've never advocated starving anyone to death, but people living off of the sweat of another man's brow should be uncomfortable, both physically and psychologically.
Americans who lived off the largess of others used to subsist on Rahmen noodles or rice and beans and hide their faces when they picked up their welfare checks.

 

[Kosh]

Still waiting for the far left to lead by example on this..

When will the far left give all their money to government and then let the government tell them what they can have back?

 

[Dragonlady]

The question for conservatives on this thread should be what they think they can gain for the greater good by shifting the tax burden sharply downward. They complain about the unfair rates of taxation on the top and the bottom paying nothing. I see that complaint and wonder how much they think they can get out of the working poor just to make life easier for the wealthy.

can you read? The richest 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90%.

As a percentage of income, poor people pay more of their income in taxes at all levels of government than the rich do.

If you make $20,000 in income and you pay property taxes, sales taxes, withholding taxes gas taxes, etc,. totalling $5,000, then 25% of you income has gone to taxes.

If you make $1,000,000 in income, and you pay $100,000 of it in taxes to all levels of government, you would say that the person making $1,000,000 is paying more, but he/she is paying only 10% of income in taxes.

The poor person keeps 75% of what they make but the rich person keeps 90% of their income.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I've worked for the USPS. You SHOULD be surprised.

You should be embarrassed. Leaching off honest tax payers and what not.

Hardly. I had a valuable skill set, and they were the highest bidder for the leasing of that skill set. Capitalism, my dear dunderhead: the free exchange of goods or services for remuneration.

Learn the difference between taking a handout from the government and doing business with them. Moron.

Oh, OK then what you are saying is government employees are ambitious and can get shit done. Thank you.

Nope, I'm saying some are, and some are not. If I were to judge by the USPS, I'd say most are not, in fact. You should possibly learn not to overgeneralize.

You're quite welcome for the numerous lessons you have learned about real life from this conversation. No charge.

Are you saying that working for the government is a handout or not? And you should also learn not to over gernalrize, I've worked with plenty of people in the private sector, many...half are lazy fucks. But I bet that according to you has nothing to do with who they work for.

Who said most people AREN'T lazy fucks? I just said you should be surprised that your mail makes it to you regularly, and you should.

And no, working is, by definition, not a handout. It tells me a lot that you're so very, very confused by this simple concept.