Don't Blame It on the Bible

[poet]

Obery M. Hendricks, Jr., Ph.D.: Don't Blame It on the Bible

"But does the Bible really condemn homosexuality? Ironically it never answers that question conclusively. In fact, the biblical basis for the demonization of homosexuality is very thin and, ultimately, not at all decisive. Oddly enough, the notions of homosexuality that are so deeply rooted in American culture and law are based upon a surprisingly small number of biblical passages.......First, it is important to recognize that the peoples of biblical antiquity had no idea of homosexuality as identity, orientation or lifestyle. The term "homosexuality" was not even coined until the latter half of the 19th century. In fact, the first use of "homosexual" or its cognate in any biblical translation in any language did not occur until 1946 with the Revised Standard Version......
In that none of these marital arrangements are condemned or even treated as exceptional in the Bible, they contradict the notion that there is one particular "traditional" type of biblical marriage. There is, of course, cultural notions of traditional marriage that hold sway in many societies, including our own, but they are just that: cultural traditions, not biblical traditions.

So does the Bible really condemn homosexuality -- and gay marriage by extension -- as sinful? As we have seen, the evidence is far too ambiguous and open to dispute for anyone to claim with integrity that it does. That is why the Bible cannot and must not be used to deny to gay citizens the full measure of the constitutional rights enjoyed by other American citizens. To do so is not only unconstitutional. It is a real biblical sin.

Obery M. Hendricks, Jr., author of 'The Universe Bends Toward Justice: Radical Reflections on the Bible, the Church and the Body Politic' (Orbis, 2012)


So, there!

 

[Emir]

The article could just as well be titled "the bible is not internally consistent, so don't base your morality on it." Sure there is a debate over whether the greek in parts of the New Testament really refers to homosexuality in the modern context, but that does not change the fact that one man can read the bible and believe God loves all men and another man can read the bible and believe God is punishing humanity for tolerating homosexuals.

 

[Sunni Man]

Homos and their perverted lifestyle are 100% condemned in the Bible........

 

[Avatar4321]

I don't exactly know how you can get more clearer than dont do it.

 

[poet]

Homos and their perverted lifestyle are 100% condemned in the Bible........

Not specifically....but "judging" is.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Don't Blame It on the Bible

Blame it on the men who wrote the bible.

 

[Avatar4321]

Homos and their perverted lifestyle are 100% condemned in the Bible........

Not specifically....but "judging" is.

You might want to reread the Bible. Because we are commanded to judge.

 

[poet]

Homos and their perverted lifestyle are 100% condemned in the Bible........

Not specifically....but "judging" is.

You might want to reread the Bible. Because we are commanded to judge.

Actually, "no", we weren't. Who are you? A sinner, like everyone else. How then are you able to judge anyone? Judgment is reserved for God, Almighty, who shall come to judge the living and the dead. How are you in that? You might be the one who would want to reread the Bible, to get some discernment. Reprobate.

 

[Avatar4321]

Not specifically....but "judging" is.

You might want to reread the Bible. Because we are commanded to judge.

Actually, "no", we weren't. Who are you? A sinner, like everyone else. How then are you able to judge anyone? Judgment is reserved for God, Almighty, who shall come to judge the living and the dead. How are you in that? You might be the one who would want to reread the Bible, to get some discernment. Reprobate.

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. (John 7:24)

So yes. Jesus commanded us to judge righteously. So as I said, you might want to reread your Bible.

 

[poet]

You might want to reread the Bible. Because we are commanded to judge.

Actually, "no", we weren't. Who are you? A sinner, like everyone else. How then are you able to judge anyone? Judgment is reserved for God, Almighty, who shall come to judge the living and the dead. How are you in that? You might be the one who would want to reread the Bible, to get some discernment. Reprobate.

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. (John 7:24)

So yes. Jesus commanded us to judge righteously. So as I said, you might want to reread your Bible.

And who determines "righteous judgment"????? You?????????? Sorry if I don't trust your instincts to do "righteous judgment" justice. Judgment is reserved for God Almighty. Period. You judge me, and you'll get told to go fuck yourself. And I'm an unapologetic Episcopalian. What the fuck are you? Your avatar is sending "mixed messages".
And you have quotes from Joseph Smith...of the Mormon Church??????????????????????? A heretical religion, that isn't even based on Christianity....Please. LMAO.

 

[Avatar4321]

And who determines "righteous judgment"????? You?????????? Sorry if I don't trust your instincts to do "righteous judgment" justice. Judgment is reserved for God Almighty. Period. You judge me, and you'll get told to go fuck yourself. And I'm an unapologetic Episcopalian. What the fuck are you? Your avatar is sending "mixed messages".
And you have quotes from Joseph Smith...of the Mormon Church??????????????????????? A heretical religion, that isn't even based on Christianity....Please. LMAO.

That's why we need the Gift of the Holy Ghost. So the Lord will guide us in all things.

You don't have to trust my judgments. I never said you did. But you don't have to pretend the Bible says the exact opposite of what it clearly says either.

God commands us to judge righteously. And He shows us the way to judge. Anything that brings us closer to Christ is good. Anything that drives us away from Christ isn't.

And contrary to your opinion. I havent judged you. You just need to read your scriptures more because you are getting things obviously wrong.

 

[poet]

And who determines "righteous judgment"????? You?????????? Sorry if I don't trust your instincts to do "righteous judgment" justice. Judgment is reserved for God Almighty. Period. You judge me, and you'll get told to go fuck yourself. And I'm an unapologetic Episcopalian. What the fuck are you? Your avatar is sending "mixed messages".
And you have quotes from Joseph Smith...of the Mormon Church??????????????????????? A heretical religion, that isn't even based on Christianity....Please. LMAO.

That's why we need the Gift of the Holy Ghost. So the Lord will guide us in all things.

You don't have to trust my judgments. I never said you did. But you don't have to pretend the Bible says the exact opposite of what it clearly says either.

God commands us to judge righteously. And He shows us the way to judge. Anything that brings us closer to Christ is good. Anything that drives us away from Christ isn't.

And contrary to your opinion. I havent judged you. You just need to read your scriptures more because you are getting things obviously wrong.

He said to "Judge not, lest ye be judged"....is what he said. You, also cannot distort, interpret, and cherry pick the parts you want implemented. I don't need to do anything but pay taxes and die. I don't subscribe to your religion. I have my own beliefs. And I have my own personal relationship with the Almighty that doesn't include you. Get the goddamn log out of your own eye before attempting to adjust the toothpick in mine. Reprobate. Hypocrite. Sinner.

 

[The Professor]

First of all, here are verses from the Old Testament which clearly state that homosexuality is an abomination and those who engaged in such activities were to be put to death (all verses are from the KJV):

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination” (Leviticus 18:22).

“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them” (Leviticus 20:13).

The following verses from the New Testament also condemn homosexuality. However, Christians would argue that although the practice was condemned, homosexuals and other sinners would find forgiveness:

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind” (1 Corinthians 6:9).

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” (Romans 1:26-27).

“But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.” (1 Timothy 1:8-10).

The fact that several of the cited verses include homosexuality in the same category as other sins such as fornication and lying, sins which are common, suggest that homosexuals can find salvation just like any other sinner. As to the question regarding whether those who continue their homosexual behavior would receive salvation, that is another question; however, if those who continue to commit other sins (such as fornication and lying) after they accept Christ do not lose their salvation, it would seem illogical to deny homosexuals the same consideration. I suppose it depends on whether one believes in the doctrine of "once saved, always saved."

I checked the link provided by OP, but I was not really impressed. The author is obviously intelligent, however, I find fault with some of his conclusions. The author seems to think that the word “homosexual” in the bible either shouldn't be there (a Bible error) or it means something else (a Bible translation error):

“First, it is important to recognize that the peoples of biblical antiquity had no idea of homosexuality as identity, orientation or lifestyle. The term "homosexuality" was not even coined until the latter half of the 19th century. In fact, the first use of "homosexual" or its cognate in any biblical translation in any language did not occur until 1946 with the Revised Standard Version.

"There are only two other direct references to male-on-male sex in the Old Testament, one in Deuteronomy and one in Leviticus (interestingly, lesbianism is never mentioned in the Old Testament). The context for these Old Testament references is the Israelite's immigration into the land of Canaan, whose society already had well-established religious customs. As newcomers, there was much pressure for the outnumbered Israelites to assimilate into the Canaanite religious orbit, so laws and instructions were sacralized to prevent it."

The author then attempts to say that the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality can only be accepted literally if other provisions of the Bible calling for the death penalty are also taken literally:

“But again, if anyone chooses to accept the Bible's denunciations, even prescriptions of death for "a man lies with a male," then what about other biblical commandments that prescribe murder for disobedient children, for those who have sex during a woman's menstrual cycle? What about the commandments to stone to death adulterers (although a man could only commit adultery against the wife of another, never against his own), and the execution by stoning of women raped in the city, with the logic that if their rape was "legitimate" (shades of Rep. Todd Akins!), they would have been sure to scream loudly enough to be rescued? There is no leeway for picking and choosing. Again, either you are a biblical literalist or not.”

The author's arguments do nothing to establish whether the Bible condemns homosexuality. I have read many articles, some very scholarly, about the Bible and homosexuality. There is disagreement on this issue as there are on many other Biblical issues. My personal analysis is that the Old testament unambiguously condemned homosexuality in the strongest language imaginable. However, the New Testament, although apparently condemning the act, does not necessarily treat it as a sin worthy of the death penalty (eternal punishment).

Just my own personal opinion. I have studied the Bible for over 60 years and that is all I can say with certainty on this divisive subject.

 

[poet]

First of all, here are verses from the Old Testament which clearly state that homosexuality is an abomination and those who engaged in such activities were to be put to death (all verses are from the KJV):

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination” (Leviticus 18:22).

“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them” (Leviticus 20:13).

The following verses from the New Testament also condemn homosexuality. However, Christians would argue that although the practice was condemned, homosexuals and other sinners would find forgiveness:

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind” (1 Corinthians 6:9).

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” (Romans 1:26-27).

“But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.” (1 Timothy 1:8-10).

The fact that several of the cited verses include homosexuality in the same category as other sins such as fornication and lying, sins which are common, suggest that homosexuals can find salvation just like any other sinner. As to the question regarding whether those who continue their homosexual behavior would receive salvation, that is another question; however, if those who continue to commit other sins (such as fornication and lying) after they accept Christ do not lose their salvation, it would seem illogical to deny homosexuals the same consideration. I suppose it depends on whether one believes in the doctrine of "once saved, always saved."

I checked the link provided by OP, but I was not really impressed. The author is obviously intelligent, however, I find fault with some of his conclusions. The author seems to think that the word “homosexual” in the bible either shouldn't be there (a Bible error) or it means something else (a Bible translation error):

“First, it is important to recognize that the peoples of biblical antiquity had no idea of homosexuality as identity, orientation or lifestyle. The term "homosexuality" was not even coined until the latter half of the 19th century. In fact, the first use of "homosexual" or its cognate in any biblical translation in any language did not occur until 1946 with the Revised Standard Version.

"There are only two other direct references to male-on-male sex in the Old Testament, one in Deuteronomy and one in Leviticus (interestingly, lesbianism is never mentioned in the Old Testament). The context for these Old Testament references is the Israelite's immigration into the land of Canaan, whose society already had well-established religious customs. As newcomers, there was much pressure for the outnumbered Israelites to assimilate into the Canaanite religious orbit, so laws and instructions were sacralized to prevent it."

The author then attempts to say that the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality can only be accepted literally if other provisions of the Bible calling for the death penalty are also taken literally:

“But again, if anyone chooses to accept the Bible's denunciations, even prescriptions of death for "a man lies with a male," then what about other biblical commandments that prescribe murder for disobedient children, for those who have sex during a woman's menstrual cycle? What about the commandments to stone to death adulterers (although a man could only commit adultery against the wife of another, never against his own), and the execution by stoning of women raped in the city, with the logic that if their rape was "legitimate" (shades of Rep. Todd Akins!), they would have been sure to scream loudly enough to be rescued? There is no leeway for picking and choosing. Again, either you are a biblical literalist or not.”

The author's arguments do nothing to establish whether the Bible condemns homosexuality. I have read many articles, some very scholarly, about the Bible and homosexuality. There is disagreement on this issue as there are on many other Biblical issues. My personal analysis is that the Old testament unambiguously condemned homosexuality in the strongest language imaginable. However, the New Testament, although apparently condemning the act, does not necessarily treat it as a sin worthy of the death penalty (eternal punishment).

Just my own personal opinion. I have studied the Bible for over 60 years and that is all I can say with certainty on this divisive subject.

An opinion...neither here, nor there.

 

[Agit8r]

I think it is interesting that the Bible doesn't mention lesbianism at all.

As for traditional marriage; Crackpot Doom Scandal: "Traditional Marriage"

 

[The Professor]

I think it is interesting that the Bible doesn't mention lesbianism at all.

As for traditional marriage; Crackpot Doom Scandal: "Traditional Marriage"

Some Christian authorities - not all - claim the following verse speaks of lesbianism:

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Romans 1:26, KJV).

 

[poet]

I think it is interesting that the Bible doesn't mention lesbianism at all.

As for traditional marriage; Crackpot Doom Scandal: "Traditional Marriage"

Some Christian authorities - not all - claim the following verse speaks of lesbianism:

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Romans 1:26, KJV).

If You Know Anyone Who Is Afraid Of Gay People, Here's A Cartoon That Will Ease Them Back To Reality
Enlightenment.

 

[The Professor]

I think it is interesting that the Bible doesn't mention lesbianism at all.

As for traditional marriage; Crackpot Doom Scandal: "Traditional Marriage"

Some Christian authorities - not all - claim the following verse speaks of lesbianism:

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Romans 1:26, KJV).

If You Know Anyone Who Is Afraid Of Gay People, Here's A Cartoon That Will Ease Them Back To Reality
Enlightenment.

I know most of the information provided by your link, and I agree with the content.

Whenever men tell me that being gay is a choice, I ask them them what age they were when the were no longer attracted to men. The invariable and expected response is that they were never attracted to men. Of course, if the were never attracted to men, they were born with an attraction toward women. There heterosexual sexuality was not a matter of choice; instead, their desires were innate. If heterosexuality is innate, than it must be true that homosexuality is, too. Not everyone is born with the same preferences.

PS: I was born straight, but some of my best friends are gay. I do not judge anyone according to their sexuality. There are far more important aspects of a person's character.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

First of all, here are verses from the Old Testament which clearly state that homosexuality is an abomination and those who engaged in such activities were to be put to death (all verses are from the KJV):

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination” (Leviticus 18:22).

“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them” (Leviticus 20:13).

The following verses from the New Testament also condemn homosexuality. However, Christians would argue that although the practice was condemned, homosexuals and other sinners would find forgiveness:

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind” (1 Corinthians 6:9).

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” (Romans 1:26-27).

“But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.” (1 Timothy 1:8-10).

The fact that several of the cited verses include homosexuality in the same category as other sins such as fornication and lying, sins which are common, suggest that homosexuals can find salvation just like any other sinner. As to the question regarding whether those who continue their homosexual behavior would receive salvation, that is another question; however, if those who continue to commit other sins (such as fornication and lying) after they accept Christ do not lose their salvation, it would seem illogical to deny homosexuals the same consideration. I suppose it depends on whether one believes in the doctrine of "once saved, always saved."

I checked the link provided by OP, but I was not really impressed. The author is obviously intelligent, however, I find fault with some of his conclusions. The author seems to think that the word “homosexual” in the bible either shouldn't be there (a Bible error) or it means something else (a Bible translation error):

“First, it is important to recognize that the peoples of biblical antiquity had no idea of homosexuality as identity, orientation or lifestyle. The term "homosexuality" was not even coined until the latter half of the 19th century. In fact, the first use of "homosexual" or its cognate in any biblical translation in any language did not occur until 1946 with the Revised Standard Version.

"There are only two other direct references to male-on-male sex in the Old Testament, one in Deuteronomy and one in Leviticus (interestingly, lesbianism is never mentioned in the Old Testament). The context for these Old Testament references is the Israelite's immigration into the land of Canaan, whose society already had well-established religious customs. As newcomers, there was much pressure for the outnumbered Israelites to assimilate into the Canaanite religious orbit, so laws and instructions were sacralized to prevent it."

The author then attempts to say that the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality can only be accepted literally if other provisions of the Bible calling for the death penalty are also taken literally:

“But again, if anyone chooses to accept the Bible's denunciations, even prescriptions of death for "a man lies with a male," then what about other biblical commandments that prescribe murder for disobedient children, for those who have sex during a woman's menstrual cycle? What about the commandments to stone to death adulterers (although a man could only commit adultery against the wife of another, never against his own), and the execution by stoning of women raped in the city, with the logic that if their rape was "legitimate" (shades of Rep. Todd Akins!), they would have been sure to scream loudly enough to be rescued? There is no leeway for picking and choosing. Again, either you are a biblical literalist or not.”

The author's arguments do nothing to establish whether the Bible condemns homosexuality. I have read many articles, some very scholarly, about the Bible and homosexuality. There is disagreement on this issue as there are on many other Biblical issues. My personal analysis is that the Old testament unambiguously condemned homosexuality in the strongest language imaginable. However, the New Testament, although apparently condemning the act, does not necessarily treat it as a sin worthy of the death penalty (eternal punishment).

Just my own personal opinion. I have studied the Bible for over 60 years and that is all I can say with certainty on this divisive subject.

An opinion...neither here, nor there.

Dude do you understand that is versus in the bible?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I think it is interesting that the Bible doesn't mention lesbianism at all.

As for traditional marriage; Crackpot Doom Scandal: "Traditional Marriage"

Some Christian authorities - not all - claim the following verse speaks of lesbianism:

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Romans 1:26, KJV).

If You Know Anyone Who Is Afraid Of Gay People, Here's A Cartoon That Will Ease Them Back To Reality
Enlightenment.

Why be afraid of sick demented people?