Elementary school shooting

[koshergrl]

Actually it is, and among that large majority, about 50% of GOP believe in it.

Look it up. You are the minority.

If you believe that your rights and obligations as a citizen are to legally protest, campaign to elect those who support your political views. file legal challenges to the laws, write positions on your political views and bost them on the interweb

Just because the tide has turned against you does not give you the right to take up arms against your country. That is treason. If you do so, you will face the consequenses

Who said anything about taking up arms numbskull? The fact remains is that gun control is not popular with the majority, and that is why the agenda only gets pushed when tragedies strike and bodies haven't even cooled off, or been put into the ground yet... People who push agendas based upon compromised emotions are the ones who are truly despicable.

Liar. Paid propagandist for baby killers, disregard.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Been drinking? O.0

You are the one that thinks the US Army is the biggest in the world.

Global Firepower - 2012 World Military Strength Ranking

^^ #1, U.S.A.

Two problems, we are talking about the Army, not the entire military here, and the guy admits he is mostly talking out of his ass.

It goes without saying that lists such can be completely subjective, though the GFP intention is to be wholly unbiased. The final GFP rankings are based on a formula taking some 45 factors into account and compiling totals against each country, applying bonuses and penalties as needed to generate this list.

 

[AmyNation]

You are the one that thinks the US Army is the biggest in the world.

Global Firepower - 2012 World Military Strength Ranking

^^ #1, U.S.A.

Two problems, we are talking about the Army, not the entire military here, and the guy admits he is mostly talking out of his ass.

It goes without saying that lists such can be completely subjective, though the GFP intention is to be wholly unbiased. The final GFP rankings are based on a formula taking some 45 factors into account and compiling totals against each country, applying bonuses and penalties as needed to generate this list.

You may be talking about the Army, but I never said that. Are you enjoying the word twisting today?

 

[SFC Ollie]

If it gives you comfort to think you can effectively fight the US government with an assault rifle, then keep thinking that.

I happen to disagree.

The Taliban has done ore with far less, so why not?

And I thnk these ex-military will do a lot better than the Taliban should it come to that.

Hopefully it never will.

The Taliban has fully functional AK-47s and RPGs. They fire and run away

Anyone who is ex-military understands what it means to go head to head with US soldiers and Marines. It is not guns but training, tactics, communications and a fully funtioning command and control structure that wins the wars

If by some small miracle the United States Government were to break down into some form of Tyrannical government do you really believe that the entire armed forces would stay true to the Government or to the constitution?

 

[SFC Ollie]

Been drinking? O.0

You are the one that thinks the US Army is the biggest in the world.

Global Firepower - 2012 World Military Strength Ranking

^^ #1, U.S.A.

Knowing just a little bit about the military and the military of the other countries in this world, I would say that yes the USA does have the strongest military at this time. But that chart is way off on a lot of countries.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Actually it is, and among that large majority, about 50% of GOP believe in it.

Look it up. You are the minority.

Who said anything about taking up arms numbskull? The fact remains is that gun control is not popular with the majority, and that is why the agenda only gets pushed when tragedies strike and bodies haven't even cooled off, or been put into the ground yet... People who push agendas based upon compromised emotions are the ones who are truly despicable.

You are wrong.

Support for more gun laws has been declining for some time now and is the minority.

In stead of a chart how about the actual shooting during Clinton's gun ban
School shooting during Clintons gun ban more than half are mass shootings.

January 12, 1995: Seattle Washington A student left school during the day and returned with his grandfather's 9mm. He wounded two students. The incident is portrayed in the documentary Cease Fire.

October 12, 1995: Blackville, South Carolina A suspended student shot two math teachers with a .32 caliber revolver.

November 15, 1995: Lynnville, Tennessee A 17-year-old boy shot and killed a student and teacher with a .22 rifle.[citation needed] February 2, 1996: Moses Lake, Washington Two students and one teacher killed, one other wounded when 14-year-old Barry Loukaitis opened fire on his algebra class.

February 19, 1997: Bethel, Alaska Principal and one student killed, two others wounded by Evan Ramsey, 16.[38] October 1, 1997: Pearl, Mississippi Two students killed and seven wounded by Luke Woodham, 16, who was also accused of killing his mother. He and his friends were said to be outcasts who worshiped Satan.

1997: West Palm Beach, Florida Conniston Middle School 14-year-old John Kamel was fatally shot in the chest at 8:40 a.m. outside school on a sidewalk by 14-year-old Tronneal Mangum after an argument over an Adidas watch that Mangum had taken from Kamel.

December 1, 1997: West Paducah, Kentucky Three students killed, five wounded by Michael Carneal, 14, as they participated in a prayer circle at Heath High School.

December 15, 1997: Stamps, Arkansas Two students wounded. Colt Todd, 14, was hiding in the woods when he shot the students as they stood in the parking lot

March 24, 1998: Jonesboro, Arkansas Four students and one teacher killed, ten others wounded outside as Westside Middle School emptied during a false fire alarm. Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shot at their classmates and teachers from the woods

April 24, 1998: Edinboro, Pennsylvania One teacher, John Gillette, was killed and two students wounded at a dance at James W. Parker Middle School. Andrew Wurst, 14, was charged.

May 21, 1998: Springfield, Oregon Two students killed, 22 others wounded in the cafeteria at Thurston High School by 15-year-old Kip Kinkel. Kinkel had been arrested and released a day earlier for bringing a gun to school. His parents were later found dead at home, shot to death by their son

June 15, 1998: Richmond, Virginia One teacher and one guidance counselor wounded by a 14-year-old boy in the school hallway[38] December 10, 1998: Detroit, Michigan One professor killed by a graduate student.

April 20, 1999: Littleton, Colorado 14 students (including 2 shooters) and one teacher killed, 27 others wounded at Columbine High School. Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, had plotted for a year to kill at least 500 and blow up their school. At the end of their hour-long rampage, they turned their guns on themselves.

May 20, 1999: Conyers, Georgia Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend

February 29, 2000: Unidentified 6-year-old offender in Michigan school shooting. 1 student fatality.

May 26, 2000: Lake Worth, Florida Lake Worth Middle School Florida teacher Barry Grunow was fatally shot by his student, 13-year-old Nathaniel Brazill, who had returned to school after being sent home at 1 p.m. by the assistant principal for throwing water balloons. Brazill returned to school on his bike with a 5 inch Raven and four bullets stolen from his grandfather the week before. Brazill was an honor student. Grunow was a popular teacher and Brazill's favorite.

August 28, 2000: University of Arkansas shooting at Fayetteville, Arkansas At approximately 12:14 pm, Dr. John R. Locke, 67, Director of the Comparative Literature Program was shot and killed in his office by James E. Kelly, 36, a Comparative Literature PhD candidate who had recently been dismissed from the program for lack of progress towards his degree. Kelly shot Dr. Locke three times before taking his own life in Dr. Locke's office after it was cordoned off by campus police.

September 26, 2000: Darrel Johnson, 13, offender in Louisiana school shooting with 1 student fatality.

March 5, 2001: Charles Andrew William, age 15, offender in California school shooting, 15 wounded 2 of which died.

March 30, 2001: Donald R. Burt Jr., age 18, offender in Indiana school shooting with 1 student fatality.

September 24, 2003: John Jason McLaughlin, age 15, offender in Minnesota school shooting with 2 student fatalities.]

February 2, 2004: Unidentified offender in Washington, DC school shooting with 1 student fatality.

May 7, 2004: Unidentified 17 year old offender in Maryland school shooting with 1 student fatality.

 

[AmyNation]

You are the one that thinks the US Army is the biggest in the world.

Global Firepower - 2012 World Military Strength Ranking

^^ #1, U.S.A.

Knowing just a little bit about the military and the military of the other countries in this world, I would say that yes the USA does have the strongest military at this time. But that chart is way off on a lot of countries.

Valid. Although I think the top 3 are pretty spot on.

 

[AmyNation]

The Taliban has done ore with far less, so why not?

And I thnk these ex-military will do a lot better than the Taliban should it come to that.

Hopefully it never will.

The Taliban has fully functional AK-47s and RPGs. They fire and run away

Anyone who is ex-military understands what it means to go head to head with US soldiers and Marines. It is not guns but training, tactics, communications and a fully funtioning command and control structure that wins the wars

If by some small miracle the United States Government were to break down into some form of Tyrannical government do you really believe that the entire armed forces would stay true to the Government or to the constitution?

Even if only 80% stayed true, it will still be more force than a rifle can defend against.


The original point was, that I think the argument that citizens need military grade weapons in case we have to defeat the military is a poor argument for pro-gun advocates. I'd say this thread is full of much more valid reasons that citizens should not be denied the right to own assault rifles, just my opinion.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Give us all the polls, Si Modo, not the cherry picked ones that cater to the far right, please.

 

[saveliberty]

I would think the reason fewer people are in favor of gun bans is, more and more folks don't trust their political leaders and government in general.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Let's have the latest polls, preferably since Newtown, saveliberty. Your comment will change, I am sure.

 

[AmyNation]

I would think the reason fewer people are in favor of gun bans is, more and more folks don't trust their political leaders and government in general.

Could be.

Last poll I saw said something like 80% of Americans distrust government. I absolutely think that plays a part in how we shape our gun laws.

 

[saveliberty]

Let's have the latest polls, preferably since Newtown, saveliberty. Your comment will change, I am sure.

Gun sales are spiking Jake, so I am not so sure there will be the numbers you want.

 

[saveliberty]

I'm sure that if the poll question is, "If you knew for sure gun control would stop school shootings like Newtown, would you support it?", even I would say yes, despite that being a fantasy quesiton.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I'm sure that if the poll question is, "If you knew for sure gun control would stop school shootings like Newtown, would you support it?", even I would say yes, despite that being a fantasy quesiton.

It did not stop any school shooting during the last ban much less mass shootings.

 

[JakeStarkey]

saveliberty, quit kick stepping. Snap, Snap: all of the latest polls, please.

 

[Nosmo King]

Previous gun laws, particularly the Assault Weapons ban lifted by Bush/Cheney are heavily watered down due to NRA lobbying efforts. The debates about the Assault Weapons Ban centered on cosmetic issues; grips, bayonet mounts, detachable stocks. Nothing of any consequence, but picking over the bells and whistles of the guns. No wonder they have been so damn ineffective.

New legislation must be comprehensive. No cosmetic exceptions. The magazines and the firing mechanisms have to go. There is no civilian justification for those.

But no law that doesn't effect the whole nation could be effective either. State challenges will ensue, both legislatively and judicially. States would have to produce overwhelming evidence that their citizens should access the banned weapons.

 

[tjvh]

Actually it is, and among that large majority, about 50% of GOP believe in it.

Look it up. You are the minority.

If you believe that your rights and obligations as a citizen are to legally protest, campaign to elect those who support your political views. file legal challenges to the laws, write positions on your political views and bost them on the interweb

Just because the tide has turned against you does not give you the right to take up arms against your country. That is treason. If you do so, you will face the consequenses

Who said anything about taking up arms numbskull? The fact remains is that gun control is not popular with the majority, and that is why the agenda only gets pushed when tragedies strike and bodies haven't even cooled off, or been put into the ground yet... People who push agendas based upon compromised emotions are the ones who are truly despicable.

Nonsense... The gun grabbers cannot push their agenda unless there is a tragedy to help move their tyranny forward. You'd be surprised how many Democrats draw the line at the Second Amendment. I don't need to look it up... You made the ridiculous statement, you provide the link to back your own assertions up.

 

[tjvh]

The Taliban has fully functional AK-47s and RPGs. They fire and run away

Anyone who is ex-military understands what it means to go head to head with US soldiers and Marines. It is not guns but training, tactics, communications and a fully funtioning command and control structure that wins the wars

If by some small miracle the United States Government were to break down into some form of Tyrannical government do you really believe that the entire armed forces would stay true to the Government or to the constitution?

Even if only 80% stayed true, it will still be more force than a rifle can defend against.


The original point was, that I think the argument that citizens need military grade weapons in case we have to defeat the military is a poor argument for pro-gun advocates. I'd say this thread is full of much more valid reasons that citizens should not be denied the right to own assault rifles, just my opinion.

It isn't about fighting the Military. WTF... Can we have a little rational thought please?

 

[tjvh]

I'm sure that if the poll question is, "If you knew for sure gun control would stop school shootings like Newtown, would you support it?", even I would say yes, despite that being a fantasy quesiton.

It did not stop any school shooting during the last ban much less mass shootings.

Yup... The assault weapon ban didn't work the last time, anyone can check the dates:
Time Line of Worldwide School Shootings — Infoplease.com