Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Jewish concepts of eschatology first appear in the book of Daniel which passed on into Christianity.
We know quite a lot about how the Book of Daniel came to be written. It was written about 164 B.C., probably by several authors. And its background was what was known as the Antiochan persecution of the Jews.
After Alexander the Great conquered that whole area of the Near East, he left behind him a number of successor kingdoms, one of which was based in Syria. It was known as the Seleucid dynasty, and one of the monarchs, a particularly nasty one, was called Antiochus Epiphanes IV. And he did exercise a very real tyranny over the Jews.
On the whole, these ancient Near Eastern empires didn't persecute people for their religion. They could be nasty to conquered peoples as conquered peoples, but they left their religion largely undisturbed. But not so this man, who desecrated the Temple and forbade all Jewish religious practices. The answer to this was that those Jews who wouldn't compromise in any way started a war, known as the Maccabean Revolt, and in the end won. And they defeated Antiochus, and reconsecrated the Temple, and it was during this war that the Book of Daniel was composed.
It wasn't, however, composed by the Maccabeans. Any idea that is was a kind of recruiting manifesto is now discredited. It wasn't that. It was simply a prophetic writing. Saying that we're going to defeat Antiochus and beyond that lies a world in which the Jews will be recognized as God's chosen people, and will really dominate in their turn.
Apocalypticism Explained | Apocalypse! FRONTLINE | PBS
Daniel is not about the future of the seven churches.. NO prophet ever wrote thousands of years into the future.
They were commentators not fortunetellers.
Jewish eschatology seems very different from Revelation to me.
For instance .. God and Magog invaded Syria-Palestine many years before the birth of Christ... and they did come swiftly like locusts on horseback.
Jewish concepts of eschatology first appear in the book of Daniel which passed on into Christianity.
Daniel is not about the future of the seven churches.. NO prophet ever wrote thousands of years into the future.
They were commentators not fortunetellers.
Jewish eschatology seems very different from Revelation to me.
For instance .. God and Magog invaded Syria-Palestine many years before the birth of Christ... and they did come swiftly like locusts on horseback.
Daniel's writings are not in Nivi'im (Prophets): they are in 'Ketuvim' (Writings) If you're talking Jewish eschatology, Daniel is less authoritative than any actual prophet.
And the KJV, for all its poetic beauty, is about the least accurate rendition of the Hebrew Bible into English.
So we know the New Jerusalem will be huge and beautiful.
Well, that's why I study history alongside the scriptures.
Jerusalem was not grand.. it was arid and rocky and poor.
Galilee however was prosperous
Yes. Glad you finally agree. According to Revelation it will be 1500 miles by 1500 miles and 1500 miles high. And we will live there forever.
Did you read on down?
Is apocalyptic writing always a response with concrete [circumstances], or is it more mystical?
Really, all apocalyptic literature is much more a response to a concrete set of circumstances, often political circumstances that drive this sense that we have to look for a mode of deliverance from God.
And Daniel was, as a book, really responding to the political crisis of Antiochus Epiphanes and the political forces of war that are all about. ... For the people of this period there's really no difference between religion and politics. We can't simply look at this work as if its symbolism of good and truth and beauty are divorced from the political reality that's all around them. ...
Apocalypticism Explained | Apocalypse! FRONTLINE | PBS
Yes. Glad you finally agree. According to Revelation it will be 1500 miles by 1500 miles and 1500 miles high. And we will live there forever.
Did you read on down?
Is apocalyptic writing always a response with concrete [circumstances], or is it more mystical?
Really, all apocalyptic literature is much more a response to a concrete set of circumstances, often political circumstances that drive this sense that we have to look for a mode of deliverance from God.
And Daniel was, as a book, really responding to the political crisis of Antiochus Epiphanes and the political forces of war that are all about. ... For the people of this period there's really no difference between religion and politics. We can't simply look at this work as if its symbolism of good and truth and beauty are divorced from the political reality that's all around them. ...
Apocalypticism Explained | Apocalypse! FRONTLINE | PBS
OK...since you won't accept that a spiritual city wouldn't have physical dimensions let's leave it at this. You can live in spiritual Jerusalem and I will live in physical Jerusalem and we'll both be happy and agree to disagree. It doesn't affect my salvation one way or the other.
Some interesting links, vis-à-vis 'Shaarona' and allegations about Schoefield:
List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Not a 'given', of course, that every last group listed there is actually a hate group - but I'm unaware of any group successfully suingthe SPLC for defamation and winning. OTOH, the SPLC has sued and won.....)
About Us - Historicist.com
(Note that this is an 'outreach' of a 'Kingdom Treasure Ministries' - one of the groups on the SPLC list above)
This site is rife with traditional 'Protestant' libels against both Catholicism and Judaism. It's particularly insistent on attacking 'Dispensationalism' - thus actively seeking to create contention *between* Protestant Christians.
Historical Heresies: 19th Century Humanistic Philosophies and America's Cultural Corruption*-*Truth in History
And this page pretty well explains what 'Kingdom Treasure Ministries' is all about: they revile all manner of 19th century movements as corrupting American culture - and blame it on 'the North'.
Cyrus Scofield was a disbarred lawyer and a convicted felon.. He was paid to write the Scofield Bible by Samuel Untermyer .. It was apostasy.
You have a problem with KJV or just Scofield's comments and references?
I read the KJV without Scofield references.
I also don't care for fundamentalism or futuristic projections about Revelation.
I think that Revelation is very hard to understand for us because we don't understand the history of what was happening in the first century AD or the symbolism that the 7 churches clearly understood.
Hal Lindsey and the Left Behind authors have done a lot of damage.
You have a problem with KJV or just Scofield's comments and references?
I read the KJV without Scofield references.
I also don't care for fundamentalism or futuristic projections about Revelation.
I think that Revelation is very hard to understand for us because we don't understand the history of what was happening in the first century AD or the symbolism that the 7 churches clearly understood.
Hal Lindsey and the Left Behind authors have done a lot of damage.
Revelations was about 1st century roman and the rise of the church.
It is not some futuristic battle. The writer was taking to his contemporaries not 2000 or more years into the future.
Sadly some people believe revelations and expect an end time. The end time will be either by man or some piece of rock out in space. Extinctions are a natural part of our planet. Just because dinosaurs lived for 160 million years does not mean man will.
Wa? You do realize that Muslims slaughter millions of sheep and lambs during their yearly pilgrimage? Ignoramus.Jesus had no use for the Pharisees.
Now just what would you know about Jesus being a muslim, didn't your child abusing prophet slander him and deny he was holy ?
I'm Episcopalian... Muslims believe that all who submit to the will of God are Muslims.
Muslims don't believe that blood ameliorates sin.. They don't believe in blood sacrifice since the time of Abraham and the attempted sacrifice of Isaac (or Ishmael)
Its offensive to Muslims that the purest of the prophets .. born of a virgin should have such a cruel death.
There is NO third Temple in the NT.
Oh really now? Methinks you're a liar and an imposter. Another Muslim posing as a Christian?Eid al-Adha is about Abraham's sacrifice.
Jews do not have a temple for sacrifice. Instead they use prayer and charity
I'm Episcopalian... Muslims believe that all who submit to the will of God are Muslims.
Muslims don't believe that blood ameliorates sin.. They don't believe in blood sacrifice since the time of Abraham and the attempted sacrifice of Isaac (or Ishmael)
Its offensive to Muslims that the purest of the prophets .. born of a virgin should have such a cruel death.
There is NO third Temple in the NT.
Yes, The Eid celebrates Abraham with a feast and charity.
Its a fun celebration.. We used to give our Muslim friends a small gift of dates.
I reject Scofields and Zionists twisted fantasies about a third temple and accept the eyewitness account of Flavious Josephus who describes how Daniels prophecy came true before his eyes in 67-70 AD.
There is no Biblical basis for rebuilding the Temple.
I'm Episcopalian... Muslims believe that all who submit to the will of God are Muslims.
Muslims don't believe that blood ameliorates sin.. They don't believe in blood sacrifice since the time of Abraham and the attempted sacrifice of Isaac (or Ishmael)
Its offensive to Muslims that the purest of the prophets .. born of a virgin should have such a cruel death.
There is NO third Temple in the NT.
The third temple is spoken of in the OT book of Daniel. His vision of the end times correlates to John's vision in Revelation. Daniel says the anti-Christ will put an end to sacrifice. In order to put an end to sacrifice there must be a Temple. There is only one place on earth the Jews can sacrifice and that is the Temple. He also says the anti-Christ will set up an abomination on a wing of the Temple. It will be rebuilt.
Yes, Sharoona uses common anti Semetic themes, here Replacment Theology is being employed. All very old tactics of Jew haters.Some interesting links, vis-à-vis 'Shaarona' and allegations about Schoefield:
List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Not a 'given', of course, that every last group listed there is actually a hate group - but I'm unaware of any group successfully suingthe SPLC for defamation and winning. OTOH, the SPLC has sued and won.....)
About Us - Historicist.com
(Note that this is an 'outreach' of a 'Kingdom Treasure Ministries' - one of the groups on the SPLC list above)
This site is rife with traditional 'Protestant' libels against both Catholicism and Judaism. It's particularly insistent on attacking 'Dispensationalism' - thus actively seeking to create contention *between* Protestant Christians.
Historical Heresies: 19th Century Humanistic Philosophies and America's Cultural Corruption*-*Truth in History
And this page pretty well explains what 'Kingdom Treasure Ministries' is all about: they revile all manner of 19th century movements as corrupting American culture - and blame it on 'the North'.
As opposed to Islamists and anti Semites who recruit in prisons, among illiterates and the ignorant, and social rejects?Some interesting links, vis-à-vis 'Shaarona' and allegations about Schoefield:
List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Not a 'given', of course, that every last group listed there is actually a hate group - but I'm unaware of any group successfully suingthe SPLC for defamation and winning. OTOH, the SPLC has sued and won.....)
About Us - Historicist.com
(Note that this is an 'outreach' of a 'Kingdom Treasure Ministries' - one of the groups on the SPLC list above)
This site is rife with traditional 'Protestant' libels against both Catholicism and Judaism. It's particularly insistent on attacking 'Dispensationalism' - thus actively seeking to create contention *between* Protestant Christians.
Historical Heresies: 19th Century Humanistic Philosophies and America's Cultural Corruption*-*Truth in History
And this page pretty well explains what 'Kingdom Treasure Ministries' is all about: they revile all manner of 19th century movements as corrupting American culture - and blame it on 'the North'.
You are out of your depth.. I am not opposed to Catholicism or Judaism... and I never heard of Kingdom Treasure Ministeries. The theology of the 700 Club comes out of the tent revivals of the Dust Bowl and the Great Depression. It preys on poor people and those who are uneducated.
The new gig is "prosperity doctrine"..
Some interesting links, vis-à-vis 'Shaarona' and allegations about Schoefield:
List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Not a 'given', of course, that every last group listed there is actually a hate group - but I'm unaware of any group successfully suingthe SPLC for defamation and winning. OTOH, the SPLC has sued and won.....)
About Us - Historicist.com
(Note that this is an 'outreach' of a 'Kingdom Treasure Ministries' - one of the groups on the SPLC list above)
This site is rife with traditional 'Protestant' libels against both Catholicism and Judaism. It's particularly insistent on attacking 'Dispensationalism' - thus actively seeking to create contention *between* Protestant Christians.
Historical Heresies: 19th Century Humanistic Philosophies and America's Cultural Corruption*-*Truth in History
And this page pretty well explains what 'Kingdom Treasure Ministries' is all about: they revile all manner of 19th century movements as corrupting American culture - and blame it on 'the North'.
You are out of your depth.. I am not opposed to Catholicism or Judaism... and I never heard of Kingdom Treasure Ministeries. The theology of the 700 Club comes out of the tent revivals of the Dust Bowl and the Great Depression. It preys on poor people and those who are uneducated.
The new gig is "prosperity doctrine"..
