Florida Wants to Kill Kids

[JamesInFlorida]

As you're shooting the first-the other will be shooting you. I'm all for shooting, and killing intruders i your home-they're a potential threat on your life. But if you respond with emotions, without thinking it through-you're only increasing the chances of getting yourself killed. If somebody comes into my house unwanted by breaking in-you're damn right they're going down. I wont hesitate. But to run out recklessly, and only singling out one-you're completely ignoring 1 (or several more), who could be armed, and could pretty easily take you out.

Who said anything about running out recklessly? I'm talking about taking the fight to the enemy with good tactics. Clearing rooms as I go. Properly cornering, entering and exiting rooms, making sure my Level IIA vest is on. Making sure to only use my light when necessary. Trust me I do know what I'm doing.

And, if you carry a loaded firearm on you in your own house at all times-I honestly feel bad for you. You're either out of your mind with paranoia, or live in a really bad neighborhood.

Carrying, NO. Generally within about 5' of one, DEFINITELY.

Plus if you have little kids around, having a loaded gun that's not properly stored IS a safety concern. No matter how many times you tell children not to touch something, or not to play with it-most kids will if given the opportunity to do so.

I don't have kids. I don't ever expect to. Given the choice between kids and guns I'll take the guns every time.

As for kids touching things they're not supposed to... I fall back on the words of my father.... "I brought you into this world and I can damn well take you back out of it." Both my brothers and I realized that was no hollow threat. Especially when it came to touching things like his guns, the woodworking machines, etc....

It sounds to me like you're a responsible gun owner, I take no issue with anything you just said. I took your previous statement a couple posts ago as just running out aimlessly to get the one intruder, I assumed this (and we know what assuming makes somebody haha).

I still don't see how a doctor asking you whether you own a gun or not is a violation of your 2nd though. And I don't see how a doctor asking you if you have guns in the house or not is a big deal. If you don't want to answer-don't, if you don't want to see that doctor anymore-don't. I do agree that a doctor at no point (not just with the gun question), should a doctor be alone with a child without the child's parent, or guardian at least being able to be present if they wish.

 

[Anachronism]

It sounds to me like you're a responsible gun owner, I take no issue with anything you just said. I took your previous statement a couple posts ago as just running out aimlessly to get the one intruder, I assumed this (and we know what assuming makes somebody haha).

No running out into the room. In fact, if done right the intruder never knows what's happening until he's on the Express Elevator to Hell.

I still don't see how a doctor asking you whether you own a gun or not is a violation of your 2nd though. And I don't see how a doctor asking you if you have guns in the house or not is a big deal. If you don't want to answer-don't, if you don't want to see that doctor anymore-don't. I do agree that a doctor at no point (not just with the gun question), should a doctor be alone with a child without the child's parent, or guardian at least being able to be present if they wish.

It's not a Second Amendment issue. It's a matter that the doctor has NO NEED to know whether I own a gun or not in 99.99% of the cases. Now, if I have an extremely elevated level of Lead in my blood or something like that; we have a different situation entirely.

More importantly, it is NOT the place of a doctor to be asking a CHILD about their parent's gun ownership.

 

[The Rabbi]

It sounds to me like you're a responsible gun owner, I take no issue with anything you just said. I took your previous statement a couple posts ago as just running out aimlessly to get the one intruder, I assumed this (and we know what assuming makes somebody haha).

No running out into the room. In fact, if done right the intruder never knows what's happening until he's on the Express Elevator to Hell.

I still don't see how a doctor asking you whether you own a gun or not is a violation of your 2nd though. And I don't see how a doctor asking you if you have guns in the house or not is a big deal. If you don't want to answer-don't, if you don't want to see that doctor anymore-don't. I do agree that a doctor at no point (not just with the gun question), should a doctor be alone with a child without the child's parent, or guardian at least being able to be present if they wish.

It's not a Second Amendment issue. It's a matter that the doctor has NO NEED to know whether I own a gun or not in 99.99% of the cases. Now, if I have an extremely elevated level of Lead in my blood or something like that; we have a different situation entirely.

More importantly, it is NOT the place of a doctor to be asking a CHILD about their parent's gun ownership.

Agreed.

 

[Steelplate]

No one ever said anything about "New" legislation, did they. That was your jump off the deep end. Only one gun related issue? ONE? According to time Magazine... there were 31,224 gun related deaths in the US in 2010.

Only one gun related issue in terms of the Columbine High School incident. I would be willing to bet that probably more than two-thirds of those gun related deaths were also crime related deaths. The cure for that is simple.... Executing or properly, permanently imprisoning those who can't live within the boundaries of proper society.

Personally, I am cool with responsible gun ownership. I'm not cool with 31k+ deaths in our country because people are assholes, irresponsible and/or criminals.

As I commented above, most of them are criminally related, and the fix for that has little to do with firearms and much more to do with PUNISHING people who can't toe the line of society.

I know... you're probably a pearl clutching, fear ridden person who feels that someone is right around the corner ready to kill you, rape your wife and abduct your kids and you need that weapon.

I learned at a very young age that the only person looking out for MY best interests is ME. Everyone else out there is suspect until they've proven themselves otherwise. Yep, even Suzie Sweetheart on her pink bike and Gramma Burt sitting up on the porch. The best way to ensure you never need to defend yourself is to be ready to do so at any instant. That's called common sense; or as one organization puts it.... "Be Prepared."

Me? I'm not. I like to hunt, fish and plink at targets. But fear? No way. I don't even lock my doors when I go to work.

Then you're a fool, an idiot, and I truly hope that you get robbed blind. We'd all be much better off if Stupidity like yours were much more painful much more often. You're the type of moron who continues to elect the gun-grabbers to state legislatures and Congress because "They're not after my deer rifle/plinking gun/hunting shotgun." BULLSHIT. Once they've got my handguns, my home defense shotgun, and my AR, they're coming for your stuff too.

Just as I expected... you are a pearl clutcher.. cowering in fear of enemies that you see behind every corner(and are very rarely there).

The rest of your post is just the typical propaganda from the NRA. Which BTW, I am a lifetime member. However, I do not believe that the threat to take away your precious guns are anywhere near what you think it is.

I know it's really, REALLY hard for you to wrap your head around this... but perhaps a huge part of this "they are going to take my guns" paranoia... comes directly from... well... how do I put this nicely??? Fuck it... FROM THE GOD DAMNED GUN MANUFACTURERS themselves! They make massive amounts of money by keeping your dumb ass scared and fearful of losing your weapons.

Of course, I realize that you cannot comprehend such an Idea... just like you can't comprehend that FOXNEWS and the TEA PARTY are very much fronts for the Wealthy Elite to get their way on every piece of legislation that takes a little power away from them and into the hands of the general populous.

But you don't get that either.

 

[jillian]

Are you sure about that? Because many take classes.

i wonder how many gun owners have formal gun safety training.

 

[Anachronism]

Just as I expected... you are a pearl clutcher.. cowering in fear of enemies that you see behind every corner(and are very rarely there).

It's not fear. It's called preparation; something that people like you don't understand. That's why people like me laugh at people like you when you get mugged or robbed.

The rest of your post is just the typical propaganda from the NRA. Which BTW, I am a lifetime member. However, I do not believe that the threat to take away your precious guns are anywhere near what you think it is.

I've pretty much given up on the NRA. The organization is really pretty much worthless when it comes to common sense and decency. The threat IS out there though nowhere near as large as some people would like people to think. Makes no difference to me. I won't be giving mine up either way.

I know it's really, REALLY hard for you to wrap your head around this... but perhaps a huge part of this "they are going to take my guns" paranoia... comes directly from... well... how do I put this nicely??? Fuck it... FROM THE GOD DAMNED GUN MANUFACTURERS themselves! They make massive amounts of money by keeping your dumb ass scared and fearful of losing your weapons.

LOL. Trust me, that's not my biggest concern. I know what I would do in that case. My concern is that I cannot purchase the firearms I want to own, have to jump through hoops to get the guns I am allowed to own, and have to deal with morons like you who shouldn't have them to begin with, so far as I'm concerned.

Of course, I realize that you cannot comprehend such an Idea... just like you can't comprehend that FOXNEWS and the TEA PARTY are very much fronts for the Wealthy Elite to get their way on every piece of legislation that takes a little power away from them and into the hands of the general populous.

LOL. I don't watch Fox News. I'm not a member of the Republican Party or a supporter of the Tea Party movement.

 

[Steelplate]

You can't purchase guns that you WANT? Ok... what do you want? A rocket launcher? a Howitzer?

Lastly... because I am not living in fear I shouldn't have weapons? What kind of logic is that? I think that because I DON'T live in fear that I am less likely to blow my kid's head off when she's sneaking back into the house after sneaking out earlier in the night to meet up with her boyfriend(as an example).

Look at our news coverage... all we see is drugs, violence and people getting arrested. You would think that's what our society is all about, wouldn't you? Sure, you see at least one "fluff" piece about the local rotary club or something, but mostly it's people doing bad shit. The truth of the matter is that the vast majority of the population(and I mean in the mid to high 90%) are good, law abiding people. But the News doesn't care about them... they care about the badasses... why? because it sells. COPS, World's Dumbest Criminals, America's Most Wanted, Justice Files and all the rest. They do what they do because it sells... people want to see it... not because it's our reality.

It's not nearly as bad as you think out there.

 

[Anachronism]

You can't purchase guns that you WANT? Ok... what do you want? A rocket launcher? a Howitzer?

How about a standard Smith & Wesson M&P9 with a full magazine? Or a standard Colt AR? Firearms that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts restricts access to. Even though one of them is ASSEMBLED here in the State. I wouldn't mind having a small rocket launcher either, but that's a different topic.

Lastly... because I am not living in fear I shouldn't have weapons? What kind of logic is that? I think that because I DON'T live in fear that I am less likely to blow my kid's head off when she's sneaking back into the house after sneaking out earlier in the night to meet up with her boyfriend(as an example).

No. Because you've stated, or at least implied an unwillingness to use those firearms for their intended purpose... to kill someone. I have a female friend who wanted to get a gun a couple years ago. She'd walked in right after her apartment was burglarized. The cops wonder if the burglars weren't headed out the back door as she came in the front. I told her I wouldn't help her get one because I knew that she couldn't bring herself to shoot a human being. I proved it to her, and while she didn't like it she understood it.

In terms of your analogy..... I'd shoot her INTENTIONALLY, for sneaking out of the house to meet up with her boyfriend.

It's not nearly as bad as you think out there.

It's bad enough, and all it takes is one time being unprepared when the bad stuff does happen to change your life forever.

 

[DaGoose]

It sounds to me like you're a responsible gun owner, I take no issue with anything you just said. I took your previous statement a couple posts ago as just running out aimlessly to get the one intruder, I assumed this (and we know what assuming makes somebody haha).

No running out into the room. In fact, if done right the intruder never knows what's happening until he's on the Express Elevator to Hell.

I still don't see how a doctor asking you whether you own a gun or not is a violation of your 2nd though. And I don't see how a doctor asking you if you have guns in the house or not is a big deal. If you don't want to answer-don't, if you don't want to see that doctor anymore-don't. I do agree that a doctor at no point (not just with the gun question), should a doctor be alone with a child without the child's parent, or guardian at least being able to be present if they wish.

It's not a Second Amendment issue. It's a matter that the doctor has NO NEED to know whether I own a gun or not in 99.99% of the cases. Now, if I have an extremely elevated level of Lead in my blood or something like that; we have a different situation entirely.

More importantly, it is NOT the place of a doctor to be asking a CHILD about their parent's gun ownership.

From the OP link: "Pediatricians are often the first health professionals to identify kids and adolescents with mental issues who are vulnerable to suicide, the AAP says. In these situations, it becomes critical for pediatricians to know whether the children have access to a gun at home, St. Petery said."

Are you sure about that? Because many take classes.

i wonder how many gun owners have formal gun safety training.

I'll bet there are far more doctors with formal gun training than gun owners with formal medical training.

.

 

[Steelplate]

You can't purchase guns that you WANT? Ok... what do you want? A rocket launcher? a Howitzer?

How about a standard Smith & Wesson M&P9 with a full magazine? Or a standard Colt AR? Firearms that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts restricts access to. Even though one of them is ASSEMBLED here in the State. I wouldn't mind having a small rocket launcher either, but that's a different topic.

Lastly... because I am not living in fear I shouldn't have weapons? What kind of logic is that? I think that because I DON'T live in fear that I am less likely to blow my kid's head off when she's sneaking back into the house after sneaking out earlier in the night to meet up with her boyfriend(as an example).

No. Because you've stated, or at least implied an unwillingness to use those firearms for their intended purpose... to kill someone. I have a female friend who wanted to get a gun a couple years ago. She'd walked in right after her apartment was burglarized. The cops wonder if the burglars weren't headed out the back door as she came in the front. I told her I wouldn't help her get one because I knew that she couldn't bring herself to shoot a human being. I proved it to her, and while she didn't like it she understood it.

In terms of your analogy..... I'd shoot her INTENTIONALLY, for sneaking out of the house to meet up with her boyfriend.

It's not nearly as bad as you think out there.

It's bad enough, and all it takes is one time being unprepared when the bad stuff does happen to change your life forever.

Let me ask you something... is your flat screen TV worth someone's life? I guess it depends on how materialistic you are. Yes, there are very few instances where I would use a weapon to kill another human being. To Protect My Wife and/or kids? Yes. For my TV? No fucking way.

Let them have the damned TV, the Stereo, the PC, my guitar and anything else in the house.

Methinks you watch way too many Action movies

 

[Anachronism]

From the OP link: "Pediatricians are often the first health professionals to identify kids and adolescents with mental issues who are vulnerable to suicide, the AAP says. In these situations, it becomes critical for pediatricians to know whether the children have access to a gun at home, St. Petery said."

As I said, if there is an extenuating circumstance, THEN they should be asking the PARENT the question, after explaining exactly why they are doing so. Outside of that situation, or something similar, it is not any of their business.

 

[Anachronism]

Let me ask you something... is your flat screen TV worth someone's life? I guess it depends on how materialistic you are. Yes, there are very few instances where I would use a weapon to kill another human being. To Protect My Wife and/or kids? Yes. For my TV? No fucking way.

Let them have the damned TV, the Stereo, the PC, my guitar and anything else in the house.

My 20 year old, non-digital TV is worth more than the life of anyone stupid enough to try and take it from me. As would be my wallet, with all $12 that are currently in it. The value of the object is immaterial. It's the principle of the issue and the fact that our current system refuses to properly PUNISH people who step outside of the law, forcing some of us to have to do it ourselves from time to time.

Methinks you watch way too many Action movies

I rarely watch movies of any sort. I have no desire to ever have to use a gun against a human being. However, if put in a situation where it is necessary, I will not hesitate for an instant. I have gone through the physical and mental preparation to ensure that.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

You can't purchase guns that you WANT? Ok... what do you want? A rocket launcher? a Howitzer?

How about a standard Smith & Wesson M&P9 with a full magazine? Or a standard Colt AR? Firearms that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts restricts access to. Even though one of them is ASSEMBLED here in the State. I wouldn't mind having a small rocket launcher either, but that's a different topic.



No. Because you've stated, or at least implied an unwillingness to use those firearms for their intended purpose... to kill someone. I have a female friend who wanted to get a gun a couple years ago. She'd walked in right after her apartment was burglarized. The cops wonder if the burglars weren't headed out the back door as she came in the front. I told her I wouldn't help her get one because I knew that she couldn't bring herself to shoot a human being. I proved it to her, and while she didn't like it she understood it.

In terms of your analogy..... I'd shoot her INTENTIONALLY, for sneaking out of the house to meet up with her boyfriend.

It's not nearly as bad as you think out there.

It's bad enough, and all it takes is one time being unprepared when the bad stuff does happen to change your life forever.

Let me ask you something... is your flat screen TV worth someone's life? I guess it depends on how materialistic you are. Yes, there are very few instances where I would use a weapon to kill another human being. To Protect My Wife and/or kids? Yes. For my TV? No fucking way.

Let them have the damned TV, the Stereo, the PC, my guitar and anything else in the house.

Methinks you watch way too many Action movies

In all fairness somebody breaking into your house is indeed a threat on your life. You don't know their motives. They know the law, and take the risk. Here in Florida most people's homes are just 1 story-and even the ones that are not, almost every bedroom is on the first floor. This means the person is a direct threat. if you were on the 2nd floor, and the person was on the 1st floor-I may see your point.

Let's say somebody breaks into your house, and your child/parent/sibling/whomever is on the other side of the house, and the robber is in the middle. Are you going to take the chance that the criminal isn't going to attack/harm your loved one? Maybe-but many people wouldn't-myself included.

edit: or my guitars LOL, try and take my guitars and we got problems.

 

[Steelplate]

You know what? You can make up scenario after scenario.

Like I said... I leave my doors unlocked when I go to work. I don't live in fear, I don't teach my kids to live in fear. I don't teach them to be stupid(taking "Candy From strangers", Rides from strangers,etc..) either.

But I also don't teach them that there's a rapist or a drug crazed lunatic around the corner that wants to kill them. Like I said... gun manufacturers have a very good reason to make you feel scared.

but yes... since you put me to brass tacks... in your scenario, I would shoot the guy, probably with my 12 gauge, as you have a better chance of hitting your target with the adrenaline pumping, and little chance of making it outside of your walls and hitting an innocent person walking by.

 

[The Rabbi]

From the OP link: "Pediatricians are often the first health professionals to identify kids and adolescents with mental issues who are vulnerable to suicide, the AAP says. In these situations, it becomes critical for pediatricians to know whether the children have access to a gun at home, St. Petery said."

As I said, if there is an extenuating circumstance, THEN they should be asking the PARENT the question, after explaining exactly why they are doing so. Outside of that situation, or something similar, it is not any of their business.

What difference does it make? They have access to a car usually. Many people commit suicide that way. They have access to their parents' medicine cabinet. Do doctors ask about what meds their parents are on? No. Whether they have a garage? No. So why this? It is a canard by anti-gun doctors' groups laboring under misapprehensions.

 

[DaGoose]

From the OP link: "Pediatricians are often the first health professionals to identify kids and adolescents with mental issues who are vulnerable to suicide, the AAP says. In these situations, it becomes critical for pediatricians to know whether the children have access to a gun at home, St. Petery said."

As I said, if there is an extenuating circumstance, THEN they should be asking the PARENT the question, after explaining exactly why they are doing so. Outside of that situation, or something similar, it is not any of their business.

What difference does it make? They have access to a car usually. Many people commit suicide that way. They have access to their parents' medicine cabinet. Do doctors ask about what meds their parents are on? No. Whether they have a garage? No. So why this? It is a canard by anti-gun doctors' groups laboring under misapprehensions.

Geez!! Didn't you read the link in your own OP??????

"Children over age 14 are at greater risk for suicide if they have access to guns, studies have shown. A 2007 study in the journal Trauma revealed a stark statistic: In the 15 states with the highest levels of household gun ownership, twice as many people committed suicide compared with the six states with the lowest levels of gun ownership. And guns are very effective. About 85 percent of attempts to commit suicide with a gun are fatal, according to the Harvard Injury Control Research Center."

.

 

[DaGoose]

You know what? You can make up scenario after scenario.

Like I said... I leave my doors unlocked when I go to work. I don't live in fear, I don't teach my kids to live in fear. I don't teach them to be stupid(taking "Candy From strangers", Rides from strangers,etc..) either.

But I also don't teach them that there's a rapist or a drug crazed lunatic around the corner that wants to kill them. Like I said... gun manufacturers have a very good reason to make you feel scared.

but yes... since you put me to brass tacks... in your scenario, I would shoot the guy, probably with my 12 gauge, as you have a better chance of hitting your target with the adrenaline pumping, and little chance of making it outside of your walls and hitting an innocent person walking by.

The only reason (and I've said this for years) for people to carry a gun is that they are afraid. Period. There is no other reason to carry a gun around.

.

 

[liebuster]

You know what? You can make up scenario after scenario.

Like I said... I leave my doors unlocked when I go to work. I don't live in fear, I don't teach my kids to live in fear. I don't teach them to be stupid(taking "Candy From strangers", Rides from strangers,etc..) either.

But I also don't teach them that there's a rapist or a drug crazed lunatic around the corner that wants to kill them. Like I said... gun manufacturers have a very good reason to make you feel scared.

but yes... since you put me to brass tacks... in your scenario, I would shoot the guy, probably with my 12 gauge, as you have a better chance of hitting your target with the adrenaline pumping, and little chance of making it outside of your walls and hitting an innocent person walking by.

The only reason (and I've said this for years) for people to carry a gun is that they are afraid. Period. There is no other reason to carry a gun around.

.

Tell that to a women who's been raped or the women thats lying in a ditch somewhere.

 

[liebuster]

You know what? You can make up scenario after scenario.

Like I said... I leave my doors unlocked when I go to work. I don't live in fear, I don't teach my kids to live in fear. I don't teach them to be stupid(taking "Candy From strangers", Rides from strangers,etc..) either.

But I also don't teach them that there's a rapist or a drug crazed lunatic around the corner that wants to kill them. Like I said... gun manufacturers have a very good reason to make you feel scared.

but yes... since you put me to brass tacks... in your scenario, I would shoot the guy, probably with my 12 gauge, as you have a better chance of hitting your target with the adrenaline pumping, and little chance of making it outside of your walls and hitting an innocent person walking by.

The only reason (and I've said this for years) for people to carry a gun is that they are afraid. Period. There is no other reason to carry a gun around.

.

Oh never mind. Your from IL. Land of Laws right? or is it Land of Lincoln? Can't remember anymore. Did you hear that Daley wants police protection after he leaves office? He's entitled to self defense but not us peons, right?

I lived in your shitty state for the first 25 years of my life. Thank god every day for giving me the balls to pack up my family and move the hell out of that state.

 

[DaGoose]

You know what? You can make up scenario after scenario.

Like I said... I leave my doors unlocked when I go to work. I don't live in fear, I don't teach my kids to live in fear. I don't teach them to be stupid(taking "Candy From strangers", Rides from strangers,etc..) either.

But I also don't teach them that there's a rapist or a drug crazed lunatic around the corner that wants to kill them. Like I said... gun manufacturers have a very good reason to make you feel scared.

but yes... since you put me to brass tacks... in your scenario, I would shoot the guy, probably with my 12 gauge, as you have a better chance of hitting your target with the adrenaline pumping, and little chance of making it outside of your walls and hitting an innocent person walking by.

The only reason (and I've said this for years) for people to carry a gun is that they are afraid. Period. There is no other reason to carry a gun around.

.

Tell that to a women who's been raped or the women thats lying in a ditch somewhere.

You know what? You can make up scenario after scenario.

Like I said... I leave my doors unlocked when I go to work. I don't live in fear, I don't teach my kids to live in fear. I don't teach them to be stupid(taking "Candy From strangers", Rides from strangers,etc..) either.

But I also don't teach them that there's a rapist or a drug crazed lunatic around the corner that wants to kill them. Like I said... gun manufacturers have a very good reason to make you feel scared.

but yes... since you put me to brass tacks... in your scenario, I would shoot the guy, probably with my 12 gauge, as you have a better chance of hitting your target with the adrenaline pumping, and little chance of making it outside of your walls and hitting an innocent person walking by.

The only reason (and I've said this for years) for people to carry a gun is that they are afraid. Period. There is no other reason to carry a gun around.

.

Oh never mind. Your from IL. Land of Laws right? or is it Land of Lincoln? Can't remember anymore. Did you hear that Daley wants police protection after he leaves office? He's entitled to self defense but not us peons, right?

I lived in your shitty state for the first 25 years of my life. Thank god every day for giving me the balls to pack up my family and move the hell out of that state.

As far as carrying a gun you just proved my point. A woman who has been raped, beaten or mugged is FEARFUL so she carrys a gun. Again...the ONLY reason to carry a gun is because you're AFRAID. Period.

As for Illinois it probably DID take balls to move out since you probably had to take a huge pay cut when you left. Illinois is ranked #1 on making a living.

"Illinois had the best adjusted-average income. The unemployment rate in Illinois is not especially low, but the state benefits from relatively high average wages, a low state tax rate, and a below-average cost of living. As an added plus, you can make good use of your money once you earn it in Illinois."

Rankings of the Best 10 States for Making a Living

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