Gender changing surgeries on children rose 389%

[JoeMoma]

what happens when the 12 year old who had this done turns 15 and changes their mind as their hormones kick in full force?

Do these sick parents think about that?

In many cases their hormones never kick in full force because of puberty blockers.

 

[Curried Goats]

They are starting this crap in elementary school.

Sure they are dungeon master. Are you giving them level 20 grooming powers?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

We don't need to. They will naturally do that on their own and that wasn’t at all my argument.

Yet the topic of the thread is the adults encouraging it/facilitate it happening. If they should not do it for sex, why for this?

Regardless, it's clear children can consent to having relationships among their peer groups, even if their parents do not. Your argument that children can't consent to sex and therefore can't consent to medical procedures is nonsensical.

No it is not. They are doing so without parental/legal power to do so. And basically it is just plain common sense. Why let a 12 year old make a life changing decisions that is irreversible? Would you support an adult letting a 12 year old get a tattoo on their face because the 12 year old thought it was a good idea?

I don't think there's anything wrong in allowing children to explore relationships.

Once again, allowing and facilitating it are two separate things.

 

[Curried Goats]

Yet the topic of the thread is the adults encouraging it/facilitate it happening. If they should not do it for sex, why for this?

Because you're comparing apples to giraffes. A doctors roll is to recommend treatments for ailments. That's their job.

No it is not. They are doing so without parental/legal power to do so. And basically it is just plain common sense. Why let a 12 year old make a life changing decisions that is irreversible? Would you support an adult letting a 12 year old get a tattoo on their face because the 12 year old thought it was a good idea?

I believe your argument to be a straw man. Your own article states that the vast majority of surgeries are being done by 17 year olds and the youngest I believe was 14. Maybe the doctor had a good reason for prescribing surgery that young. You haven't even discussed the particulars of any of these cases. I don't even think your ready to accept that transgenderism is a real thing and that gender reassignment surgery is a viable treatment.

Once again, allowing and facilitating it are two separate things.

I'm not sure what you think a physicians job is but providing medical care is what they do. It's okay if you don't understand it, you never went to medical school. No one expects you to.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Because you're comparing apples to giraffes. A doctors roll is to recommend treatments for ailments. That's their job.

And it is the parents job to look after the welfare of their children. Allowing a child to make a life changing/irreversible decisions is not doing that.

I believe your argument to be a straw man. Your own article states that the vast majority of surgeries are being done by 17 year olds and the youngest I believe was 14.

From the link in the OP....The patients ranged from 12 to 17, and approximately 5.5% were reported to be under 14.

I don't even think your ready to accept that transgenderism is a real thing and that gender reassignment surgery is a viable treatment.

Actually I do accept it is a real thing and support those that make the change, when they are adults. One of my co-workers/friends spouse has decided they are non-binary and asked for use to use the appropriate pro-nouns. I have no issues with this at all and fully supported their decision. But they are close to 30 years old and able to make that choice for themselves.

I do not agree that children are ready to do such a thing. There are a great many things I support adults doing that I do not find appropriate for children. You do not seem to make any such distinctions.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I'm not sure what you think a physicians job is but providing medical care is what they do. It's okay if you don't understand it, you never went to medical school. No one expects you to.

This is not medical care anymore than a woman getting fake boobs is medical care.

 

[Papageorgio]

just pretending he is really a leftist, would it not be good of him to be able to see the mistakes they are making?

It is a pretty rare trait around here, seems we should not mock it

He jumps from one side to the next depending on the day. He has lied about posters and is not one I’d ever trust.

 

[Curried Goats]

And it is the parents job to look after the welfare of their children. Allowing a child to make a life changing/irreversible decisions is not doing that.

That certainly seems to be your argument but you don't seem to have much more than your claim to support it. Some parents unfortunetly might have to make hard medical decisions regarding their children's health that can alter their life. Some of these decisions might include chemotherapy, brain surgery, and amputation. Do you have a problem with children and their parents consulting with medical professionals to make these decisions?

From the link in the OP....The patients ranged from 12 to 17, and approximately 5.5% were reported to be under 14.

So a very small minority of cases. How are you sure they weren't warranted without even looking at them?

Actually I do accept it is a real thing and support those that make the change, when they are adults. One of my co-workers/friends spouse has decided they are non-binary and asked for use to use the appropriate pro-nouns. I have no issues with this at all and fully supported their decision. But they are close to 30 years old and able to make that choice for themselves.

If you accept the science then why not the science that shows intervening during puberty rather than after its run its course produces better outcomes and that going through puberty can exacerbate the mental distress associated with gender dysphoria? Why should these children and their parents have to wait until you're comfortable enough?

I do not agree that children are ready to do such a thing. There are a great many things I support adults doing that I do not find appropriate for children. You do not seem to make any such distinctions.

A straw man. I don't care what you think, can you prove they are incapable of making this decision? Where's your data?

This is not medical care anymore than a woman getting fake boobs is medical care.

My sister in law just had a double mastectomy last year due to cancer prevention. Her new breats were not considered cosmetic and so insurance was forced to pay for it. Context is important. You seem to always be in short supply of it.

 

[Mac-7]

Says the leftist.

Touche

Mac1958 and his sidekick Golfing Gator are leftists with a Tweener twist

It really pains them when the dems fail to live up their expectations

 

[Harpy Eagle]

That certainly seems to be your argument but you don't seem to have much more than your claim to support it. Some parents unfortunetly might have to make hard medical decisions regarding their children's health that can alter their life. Some of these decisions might include chemotherapy, brain surgery, and amputation. Do you have a problem with children and their parents consulting with medical professionals to make these decisions?

Those decisions are not cosmetic, they are done for the purpose to save the life of the child. You are now the one comparing apples and oranges.

If you accept the science then why not the science that shows intervening during puberty rather than after its run its course produces better outcomes and that going through puberty can exacerbate the mental distress associated with gender dysphoria? Why should these children and their parents have to wait until you're comfortable enough?

It is not the science I accept, it is the feeling of the adults I accept. What science could prove the person I spoke of is really non-binary? What science would even show that such a thing really exist? This is not the realm of science since gender is not in the realm of science. These children and their parents should wait till the child is old enough to make life changing decisions. There is a reason we do not allow children to decide to smoke or drink or many other things till they get to a certain age.

A straw man. I don't care what you think, can you prove they are incapable of making this decision? Where's your data?

So then you are against the laws that prevent a 12 year old from legally choosing to drink booze or get a tattoo on their face if they choose to? We should just let anyone of any age make these decisions for themselves?

My sister in law just had a double mastectomy last year due to cancer prevention. Her new breats were not considered cosmetic and so insurance was forced to pay for it. Context is important. You seem to always be in short supply of it.

That does not apply to the cases in the OP.

 

[Papageorgio]

Touche

Mac1958 and his sidekick Golfing Gator are leftists with a Tweener twist

It really pains them when the dems fail to live up their expectations

Golfing Gator is fine, mac1958 is self absorbed, lying chicken, who gets irritated when you call him out on his lies.

 

[Mac-7]

Golfing Gator is fine, mac1958 is self absorbed, lying chicken, who gets irritated when you call him out on his lies.

Golfing Gator is little different and no better than Mac1958 in my opinion

Though you may see some value in him that I dont

 

[Curried Goats]

Those decisions are not cosmetic, they are done for the purpose to save the life of the child. You are now the one comparing apples and oranges.

Reassignment surgery isn't easily dismissed as cosmetic any more than reconstructive breast surgery after a double mastectomy. Part of the reason people with gender dysphoria suffer mental distress has to do with the incongruity between their body and their identity.

It is not the science I accept, it is the feeling of the adults I accept. What science could prove the person I spoke of is really non-binary? What science would even show that such a thing really exist? This is not the realm of science since gender is not in the realm of science.

MRIs for one. If you're not relying on science to inform you what are you relying on? Voodoo? Bias? Prejudice?

These children and their parents should wait till the child is old enough to make life changing decisions. There is a reason we do not allow children to decide to smoke or drink or many other things till they get to a certain age.

Smoking isn't recommended by physicians at any age. The reason we don't allow children to smoke is because science and medicine showed us how harmful it is. You do the same. Without supposition. It's actually the medical community making these recommendations.

So then you are against the laws that prevent a 12 year old from legally choosing to drink booze or get a tattoo on their face if they choose to? We should just let anyone of any age make these decisions for themselves?

I think context is key. I cant't think of many good reasons why society should allow a child (with parental consent) to get a face tattoo. It doesn't seem medically necessary. It could be religiously or culturally significant I suppose among some indigenous communities but again gender reassignment surgery or top surgery isn't being done purely for cosmetic reasons, you're ignoring the very real mental distress.

That does not apply to the cases in the OP.

It's an analogy. Some breast implants are done for mental health and not just for cosmetic reasons.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

MRIs for one. If you're not relying on science to inform you what are you relying on? Voodoo? Bias? Prejudice?

An MRI cannot show that being non-binary is real thing.

I rely on the feelings of the person. If someone tells me that they think they are non-binary I do not request they get an MRI to prove it, I accept them at their word the same as I would if they told me they did not like pizza or were in love with a person.

There are a great many things in life that science cannot prove, science has its place but it is not all knowing.

 

[Curried Goats]

An MRI cannot show that being non-binary is real thing.

Your "not uh" argument sure is convincing.

I rely on the feelings of the person. If someone tells me that they think they are non-binary I do not request they get an MRI to prove it, I accept them at their word the same as I would if they told me they did not like pizza or were in love with a person.

Sure, just like I don't assume people who appear blind are just fucking around with me. Why would they? I was just providing objective, physiological evidence of gender dysphoria.

There are a great many things in life that science cannot prove, science has its place but it is not all knowing.

There are many things science can't yet explain that doesn't mean the explanation can't be found using science and objective reasoning.

 

[Mac-7]

An MRI cannot show that being non-binary is real thing.

I rely on the feelings of the person. If someone tells me that they think they are non-binary I do not request they get an MRI to prove it, I accept them at their word the same as I would if they told me they did not like pizza or were in love with a person.

There are a great many things in life that science cannot prove, science has its place but it is not all knowing.

I must admit that sometimes Golfing Gator actually makes sense

 

[JoeMoma]

An MRI cannot show that being non-binary is real thing.

I rely on the feelings of the person. If someone tells me that they think they are non-binary I do not request they get an MRI to prove it, I accept them at their word the same as I would if they told me they did not like pizza or were in love with a person.

There are a great many things in life that science cannot prove, science has its place but it is not all knowing.

Why would a non-binary need to alter its body anyway..... gender being a social construct and such?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Sure, just like I don't assume people who appear blind are just fucking around with me. Why would they? I was just providing objective, physiological evidence of gender dysphoria

Blindness and non-binary are not equal, one has a set definition one does not. Someone can be non-binary for a period of time and then change, not the case with being blind.

There are many things science can't yet explain that doesn't mean the explanation can't be found using science and objective reasoning.

Somethings just do not need science. Do I need science to tell me I love my wife and kids? Do I need science to explain why I am a Gator fan?

Plus, objective reasoning is not limited just to science.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Why would a non-binary need to alter its body anyway..... gender being a social construct and such?

I do not believe they do, the one I know did not. They tend to wear a wide variety of clothing that would fit with how people view the male or female gender.

 

[Curried Goats]

Blindness and non-binary are not equal, one has a set definition one does not. Someone can be non-binary for a period of time and then change, not the case with being blind.

You mean people who are simply confused about their identity can be misdiagnosed as having gender dysphoria. Go look at the numbers of people who actually end up regretting transitioning, it's around 1%.

Somethings just do not need science. Do I need science to tell me I love my wife and kids? Do I need science to explain why I am a Gator fan?

We could use science to disprove claims from people who say you don't love your wife or that you're not really suffering from gender dysphoria.

Plus, objective reasoning is not limited just to science.

It actual is. Science is the tool we use to determine what's real from what's supposition. Reason is a determination given to that which can be proven to be real.