"God" is a tyrant.

[Czernobog]

That's it? "Yeah, God is a tyrant, and a Bully. So is the God of every other religion, so what? " Really????? And, no. Atheism has no Hell. That is a lie.

God would be a tyrant if He did not tell you what the ramifications of your actions will be.
In this case you have no excuse when you stand before God. You know all the ramifications and made a choice God allows you to make.

Uh...no. That still makes him a tyrant and a bully. When I tell you that I am going to beat you up, if you don't give me your lunch money, and you choose not to give me your lunch money, does that make me any less of a bully when I beat you up, just because I was nice enough to let you know the ramifications of choosing not to do what I told you to do?

If you think believing Jesus was the Son of God sent here to take our punishment so we may go to heaven is the same as you getting beat up and robbed, then you have issues.

Yeah...Jesus (God) sent/came here to take our punishment that he (God) imposed in the first place, that is only granted by adhering to his rules. yeah. That is coercion, and bullying.

Only two places in the next life - the place where God is and the place where God is not.

Not my fault that you deny Jesus. But you do know the ramifications, so my hands are clean.

Never suggested otherwise. You are not responsible for your God being a bully.

 

[Weatherman2020]

God would be a tyrant if He did not tell you what the ramifications of your actions will be.
In this case you have no excuse when you stand before God. You know all the ramifications and made a choice God allows you to make.

Uh...no. That still makes him a tyrant and a bully. When I tell you that I am going to beat you up, if you don't give me your lunch money, and you choose not to give me your lunch money, does that make me any less of a bully when I beat you up, just because I was nice enough to let you know the ramifications of choosing not to do what I told you to do?

If you think believing Jesus was the Son of God sent here to take our punishment so we may go to heaven is the same as you getting beat up and robbed, then you have issues.

Yeah...Jesus (God) sent/came here to take our punishment that he (God) imposed in the first place, that is only granted by adhering to his rules. yeah. That is coercion, and bullying.

Only two places in the next life - the place where God is and the place where God is not.

Not my fault that you deny Jesus. But you do know the ramifications, so my hands are clean.

Never suggested otherwise. You are not responsible for your God being a bully.

When a lifeguard throws you a rope and you call it being a bully because of his take this or drown attitude, that is your mental defect you must deal with.

 

[Czernobog]

Uh...no. That still makes him a tyrant and a bully. When I tell you that I am going to beat you up, if you don't give me your lunch money, and you choose not to give me your lunch money, does that make me any less of a bully when I beat you up, just because I was nice enough to let you know the ramifications of choosing not to do what I told you to do?

If you think believing Jesus was the Son of God sent here to take our punishment so we may go to heaven is the same as you getting beat up and robbed, then you have issues.

Yeah...Jesus (God) sent/came here to take our punishment that he (God) imposed in the first place, that is only granted by adhering to his rules. yeah. That is coercion, and bullying.

Only two places in the next life - the place where God is and the place where God is not.

Not my fault that you deny Jesus. But you do know the ramifications, so my hands are clean.

Never suggested otherwise. You are not responsible for your God being a bully.

When a lifeguard throws you a rope and you call it being a bully because of his take this or drown attitude, that is your mental defect you must deal with.

You keep making references to people "saving" you from things that they, themselves, did not create. When an arsonist sets a fire, and then proceeds to run into the burning building to "rescue" the residents, he is not considered the hero, now is he? God should not expect to be thanked for offering to "save" me from that thing that he threatened to condemn me to, in the first place. If he wants my thanks, simply remove the threat. No strings attached.

 

[Weatherman2020]

If you think believing Jesus was the Son of God sent here to take our punishment so we may go to heaven is the same as you getting beat up and robbed, then you have issues.

Yeah...Jesus (God) sent/came here to take our punishment that he (God) imposed in the first place, that is only granted by adhering to his rules. yeah. That is coercion, and bullying.

Only two places in the next life - the place where God is and the place where God is not.

Not my fault that you deny Jesus. But you do know the ramifications, so my hands are clean.

Never suggested otherwise. You are not responsible for your God being a bully.

When a lifeguard throws you a rope and you call it being a bully because of his take this or drown attitude, that is your mental defect you must deal with.

You keep making references to people "saving" you from things that they, themselves, did not create. When an arsonist sets a fire, and then proceeds to run into the burning building to "rescue" the residents, he is not considered the hero, now is he? God should not expect to be thanked for offering to "save" me from that thing that he threatened to condemn me to, in the first place. If he wants my thanks, simply remove the threat. No strings attached.

When I sin, I do it on my own.
If you want to blame others for your sins, that is your mental issue to deal with.

 

[Czernobog]

Yeah...Jesus (God) sent/came here to take our punishment that he (God) imposed in the first place, that is only granted by adhering to his rules. yeah. That is coercion, and bullying.

Only two places in the next life - the place where God is and the place where God is not.

Not my fault that you deny Jesus. But you do know the ramifications, so my hands are clean.

Never suggested otherwise. You are not responsible for your God being a bully.

When a lifeguard throws you a rope and you call it being a bully because of his take this or drown attitude, that is your mental defect you must deal with.

You keep making references to people "saving" you from things that they, themselves, did not create. When an arsonist sets a fire, and then proceeds to run into the burning building to "rescue" the residents, he is not considered the hero, now is he? God should not expect to be thanked for offering to "save" me from that thing that he threatened to condemn me to, in the first place. If he wants my thanks, simply remove the threat. No strings attached.

When I sin, I do it on my own.
If you want to blame others for your sins, that is your mental issue to deal with.

Except, now you are talking about an entirely different issue. Sin whatever that may be, is not supposed to be a part of the equation. According to the Christian formula, I should be able to sin until the Cows come home. Then, when I have had my fill of sinning, all I need to do is do the whole accepting Jesus thing, end my days as an adherent of Christianity, and I get to go to the Good Place. I would be happy to discuss the nature of "Sin:, and the irrationality of that, as well, but let us save that for another topic. Let's just stay on topic at this point, shall we?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Only two places in the next life - the place where God is and the place where God is not.

Not my fault that you deny Jesus. But you do know the ramifications, so my hands are clean.

Never suggested otherwise. You are not responsible for your God being a bully.

When a lifeguard throws you a rope and you call it being a bully because of his take this or drown attitude, that is your mental defect you must deal with.

You keep making references to people "saving" you from things that they, themselves, did not create. When an arsonist sets a fire, and then proceeds to run into the burning building to "rescue" the residents, he is not considered the hero, now is he? God should not expect to be thanked for offering to "save" me from that thing that he threatened to condemn me to, in the first place. If he wants my thanks, simply remove the threat. No strings attached.

When I sin, I do it on my own.
If you want to blame others for your sins, that is your mental issue to deal with.

Except, now you are talking about an entirely different issue. Sin whatever that may be, is not supposed to be a part of the equation. According to the Christian formula, I should be able to sin until the Cows come home. Then, when I have had my fill of sinning, all I need to do is do the whole accepting Jesus thing, end my days as an adherent of Christianity, and I get to go to the Good Place. I would be happy to discuss the nature of "Sin:, and the irrationality of that, as well, but let us save that for another topic. Let's just stay on topic at this point, shall we?

You validate you know nothing about what you rant about. Jesus and our sins has everything to do with it.

 

[Meriweather]

Revelation 20: 11-15:

11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.​

Now, unless you know of a version of a "lake of fire" that is not painful, and torturous, or you are suggesting that "the dead' referred to are not the "souls" of those who are not adherents of Christianity, or you are suggesting it was not the Christian God who was doing the judging, and the casting, then I would say that, as I said, Revelation was quite visceral in its description. Now, many of the Christians here have been trying to sell the idea that
Hell" is nothing more than being separated from God. However, Revelation rather vividly describes it as a lake of fire, and it has been described by eschatologists, over the years, at various times actively painful, unpleasant, and torturous. so, you'll forgive me if I find that rationalisation more than a little disingenuous.

The Book of Revelation is Apocalyptic Literature which was very popular at the time. It is rich in symbolism and metaphor. Further, to understand it properly, one needs to be aware of Jewish messianic thinking of those two centuries--when Apocalyptic thinking had its roots.

The Lake of Fire is a symbol of purification, whereby evil and death are destroyed or eliminated.

 

[Czernobog]

Never suggested otherwise. You are not responsible for your God being a bully.

When a lifeguard throws you a rope and you call it being a bully because of his take this or drown attitude, that is your mental defect you must deal with.

You keep making references to people "saving" you from things that they, themselves, did not create. When an arsonist sets a fire, and then proceeds to run into the burning building to "rescue" the residents, he is not considered the hero, now is he? God should not expect to be thanked for offering to "save" me from that thing that he threatened to condemn me to, in the first place. If he wants my thanks, simply remove the threat. No strings attached.

When I sin, I do it on my own.
If you want to blame others for your sins, that is your mental issue to deal with.

Except, now you are talking about an entirely different issue. Sin whatever that may be, is not supposed to be a part of the equation. According to the Christian formula, I should be able to sin until the Cows come home. Then, when I have had my fill of sinning, all I need to do is do the whole accepting Jesus thing, end my days as an adherent of Christianity, and I get to go to the Good Place. I would be happy to discuss the nature of "Sin:, and the irrationality of that, as well, but let us save that for another topic. Let's just stay on topic at this point, shall we?

You validate you know nothing about what you rant about. Jesus and our sins has everything to do with it.

So, I need do nothing but live a virtuous life to gp tp the Good Place. Well, that is good to know.

 

[Czernobog]

Revelation 20: 11-15:

11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.​

Now, unless you know of a version of a "lake of fire" that is not painful, and torturous, or you are suggesting that "the dead' referred to are not the "souls" of those who are not adherents of Christianity, or you are suggesting it was not the Christian God who was doing the judging, and the casting, then I would say that, as I said, Revelation was quite visceral in its description. Now, many of the Christians here have been trying to sell the idea that
Hell" is nothing more than being separated from God. However, Revelation rather vividly describes it as a lake of fire, and it has been described by eschatologists, over the years, at various times actively painful, unpleasant, and torturous. so, you'll forgive me if I find that rationalisation more than a little disingenuous.

The Book of Revelation is Apocalyptic Literature which was very popular at the time. It is rich in symbolism and metaphor. Further, to understand it properly, one needs to be aware of Jewish messianic thinking of those two centuries--when Apocalyptic thinking had its roots.

The Lake of Fire is a symbol of purification, whereby evil and death are destroyed or eliminated.

Mmm...that's not the prevailing consensus of eschatologists...

 

[Meriweather]

According to the Christian formula, I should be able to sin until the Cows come home. Then, when I have had my fill of sinning, all I need to do is do the whole accepting Jesus thing, end my days as an adherent of Christianity, and I get to go to the Good Place. I would be happy to discuss the nature of "Sin:, and the irrationality of that, as well, but let us save that for another topic. Let's just stay on topic at this point, shall we?

That is not the Christian formula. Sin enslaves, and Christianity advocates freedom, not enslavement. For example, if people do not have self-control then their habits begin to control them. (Drinking, gluttony, lusts, lies, etc.) Why would you want to live as a slave in this life? Wouldn't you rather live free?

 

[Czernobog]

According to the Christian formula, I should be able to sin until the Cows come home. Then, when I have had my fill of sinning, all I need to do is do the whole accepting Jesus thing, end my days as an adherent of Christianity, and I get to go to the Good Place. I would be happy to discuss the nature of "Sin:, and the irrationality of that, as well, but let us save that for another topic. Let's just stay on topic at this point, shall we?

That is not the Christian formula. Sin enslaves, and Christianity advocates freedom, not enslavement. For example, if people do not have self-control then their habits begin to control them. (Drinking, gluttony, lusts, lies, etc.) Why would you want to live as a slave in this life? Wouldn't you rather live free?

Talking about two different things. You are talking about quality of life. We are discussing "final destinations", assuming that the consciousness/soul survives death.

 

[Meriweather]

Mmm...that's not the prevailing consensus of eschatologists...

It is certainly the consensus of many--and has been for some time. Most (by no means all) non-Catholic Christians get caught up in their literal interpretation of the Bible. Study the ethos of that time.

 

[Meriweather]

Talking about two different things. You are talking about quality of life. We are discussing "final destinations", assuming that the consciousness/soul survives death.

It is very much the same. If you have no self-control in this life, why would it magically come to you in the next?

 

[Weatherman2020]

When a lifeguard throws you a rope and you call it being a bully because of his take this or drown attitude, that is your mental defect you must deal with.

You keep making references to people "saving" you from things that they, themselves, did not create. When an arsonist sets a fire, and then proceeds to run into the burning building to "rescue" the residents, he is not considered the hero, now is he? God should not expect to be thanked for offering to "save" me from that thing that he threatened to condemn me to, in the first place. If he wants my thanks, simply remove the threat. No strings attached.

When I sin, I do it on my own.
If you want to blame others for your sins, that is your mental issue to deal with.

Except, now you are talking about an entirely different issue. Sin whatever that may be, is not supposed to be a part of the equation. According to the Christian formula, I should be able to sin until the Cows come home. Then, when I have had my fill of sinning, all I need to do is do the whole accepting Jesus thing, end my days as an adherent of Christianity, and I get to go to the Good Place. I would be happy to discuss the nature of "Sin:, and the irrationality of that, as well, but let us save that for another topic. Let's just stay on topic at this point, shall we?

You validate you know nothing about what you rant about. Jesus and our sins has everything to do with it.

So, I need do nothing but live a virtuous life to gp tp the Good Place. Well, that is good to know.

Except you will sin at least ten times before sunset.

People who really think God sent Jesus to take our punishment do their best to not sin. But because we are human we still do it all of the time. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

You don't want the offer, don't take it. No sweat off my back.

 

[Czernobog]

Mmm...that's not the prevailing consensus of eschatologists...

It is certainly the consensus of many--and has been for some time. Most (by no means all) non-Catholic Christians get caught up in their literal interpretation of the Bible. Study the ethos of that time.

And, there you have it. It may be the consesus of Catholic eschatologists. However, you seem to have been making a very good argument for the accuracy of those who claim that Catholic, and non-Catholic Christianity are two entirely different animals, and not just two different flavours of the same religion, like the other denominations are.

 

[Czernobog]

You keep making references to people "saving" you from things that they, themselves, did not create. When an arsonist sets a fire, and then proceeds to run into the burning building to "rescue" the residents, he is not considered the hero, now is he? God should not expect to be thanked for offering to "save" me from that thing that he threatened to condemn me to, in the first place. If he wants my thanks, simply remove the threat. No strings attached.

When I sin, I do it on my own.
If you want to blame others for your sins, that is your mental issue to deal with.

Except, now you are talking about an entirely different issue. Sin whatever that may be, is not supposed to be a part of the equation. According to the Christian formula, I should be able to sin until the Cows come home. Then, when I have had my fill of sinning, all I need to do is do the whole accepting Jesus thing, end my days as an adherent of Christianity, and I get to go to the Good Place. I would be happy to discuss the nature of "Sin:, and the irrationality of that, as well, but let us save that for another topic. Let's just stay on topic at this point, shall we?

You validate you know nothing about what you rant about. Jesus and our sins has everything to do with it.

So, I need do nothing but live a virtuous life to gp tp the Good Place. Well, that is good to know.

Except you will sin at least ten times before sunset.

People who really think God sent Jesus to take our punishment do their best to not sin. But because we are human we still do it all of the time. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

You don't want the offer, don't take it. No sweat off my back.

And why is that? Because the game is rigged.

 

[Weatherman2020]

When I sin, I do it on my own.
If you want to blame others for your sins, that is your mental issue to deal with.

Except, now you are talking about an entirely different issue. Sin whatever that may be, is not supposed to be a part of the equation. According to the Christian formula, I should be able to sin until the Cows come home. Then, when I have had my fill of sinning, all I need to do is do the whole accepting Jesus thing, end my days as an adherent of Christianity, and I get to go to the Good Place. I would be happy to discuss the nature of "Sin:, and the irrationality of that, as well, but let us save that for another topic. Let's just stay on topic at this point, shall we?

You validate you know nothing about what you rant about. Jesus and our sins has everything to do with it.

So, I need do nothing but live a virtuous life to gp tp the Good Place. Well, that is good to know.

Except you will sin at least ten times before sunset.

People who really think God sent Jesus to take our punishment do their best to not sin. But because we are human we still do it all of the time. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

You don't want the offer, don't take it. No sweat off my back.

And why is that? Because the game is rigged.

Not my problem you refuse to accept Jesus and prefer to be a mindless robot with no free will.

 

[Meriweather]

And, there you have it. It may be the consesus of Catholic eschatologists. However, you seem to have been making a very good argument for the accuracy of those who claim that Catholic, and non-Catholic Christianity are two entirely different animals, and not just two different flavours of the same religion, like the other denominations are.

One of the best of these was not Catholic, and I suspect there are many more like him. Those who go back to the history and culture in which Revelation was written have a much different view that those who follow commentary that was written in the late 1800s. As a whole, Catholics do stick with what was traditionally intended and taught in the first century. A few other non Catholic Christian denominations (not all) feel what was written and opined in the fifteen hundreds makes better sense.

This can prove frustrating for the majority of Christians when non-Christians pick up on the outlandish, because naturally, the outlandish is what more easily sticks in people's mind.

 

[Czernobog]

Except, now you are talking about an entirely different issue. Sin whatever that may be, is not supposed to be a part of the equation. According to the Christian formula, I should be able to sin until the Cows come home. Then, when I have had my fill of sinning, all I need to do is do the whole accepting Jesus thing, end my days as an adherent of Christianity, and I get to go to the Good Place. I would be happy to discuss the nature of "Sin:, and the irrationality of that, as well, but let us save that for another topic. Let's just stay on topic at this point, shall we?

You validate you know nothing about what you rant about. Jesus and our sins has everything to do with it.

So, I need do nothing but live a virtuous life to gp tp the Good Place. Well, that is good to know.

Except you will sin at least ten times before sunset.

People who really think God sent Jesus to take our punishment do their best to not sin. But because we are human we still do it all of the time. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

You don't want the offer, don't take it. No sweat off my back.

And why is that? Because the game is rigged.

Not my problem you refuse to accept Jesus and prefer to be a mindless robot with no free will.

I'm not the one who mindlessly accepts the tyranny of a God who bullied you believing you needed forgiveness for being the way you were created.

 

[jillian]

Proposed: The Christian God is a tyrant determined to force everyone on the planet to convert to Christianity, and worship as a Christian, and the illusion of "Free Will" is a pretence that he created to convince you that observance was your own idea.

Otherwise, why fill the Bible with references of the eternal torture, and suffering that would befall non-believers after judgement, when one dies. Now, the first question that is going to be asked is going to be an attempt at a distraction: "Why should I care what the Bible says, since I'm an Atheist?" However, it doesn't matter what my theological position is, does it? "The truth is the truth," right? So, if the Bible is the Truth, then the things that are in the Bible are "the Truth" whether I believe them, or not. Which, brings us right back around to my question. If God is not a tyrant, and does not demand worship from everyone, then why threaten anyone who does not believe? If God does not care one way, or the other, if someone chooses to believe, or not, why bother with all of the threats?

well, I don't know about all of that.

but you have a good nic. (I'm reading American Gods right now and love it).