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joe has the same degree of credibility as tdm.
He doesn't even know where the article came from, but he is going to label it and run from it. And we are supposed to take his arguments seriously.
If it comes from an anti-Choice nutter, that disqualifies it on its face.
He doesn't even know where the article came from, but he is going to label it and run from it. And we are supposed to take his arguments seriously.
If it comes from an anti-Choice nutter, that disqualifies it on its face.
You don't even know what you are arguing...you are just spewing crap.
So...everyone should obviously then discount you for being a pro abortion nutter.
Christ, ya' friggin' ghoul,.....it's a link from your beloved Huffpo.....Since when did that online liberal rag become "holy Roller,".....ya' lying ass, moron?What a chickenshit...and fraud you are. LOL
Again, when it has the "Religious Nutbag" label on it, you don't need to open the package.
The problem being, you don't even think you stuff stinks of religous nutbag.
Seriously, does your abject liberal dishonesty know no bounds?
If it comes from an anti-Choice nutter, that disqualifies it on its face.
You don't even know what you are arguing...you are just spewing crap.
So...everyone should obviously then discount you for being a pro abortion nutter.
No, I just don't take YOU seriously, because you dwell on the most lurid accounts of the Gosnell case, most of which are not being repeated in the mainstream media, like they are some kind of low-grade porn. So I dismiss any link you post without reading.
Here's the reality.
Women are not going to stop having sex because you want them to.
Women are not going to give birth to babies they don't want.
You anti-Choice nutters are the reason Gosnell existed, because these poor women couldn't get an appointment at a nice clean abortion clinic where White People go to "take care of that problem".
Learn to deal.
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I was arguing neither of the two points you listed.
Maybe you should just argue with yourself, huh.
As for your last point...sorry you are wrong...The Grand Jury even stated as much ( which I quoted)...the regulations in place to protect women ( even the poor women you claim to care about so much). Were ignored "by design"...by the very people whose job it was to see that they were being followed. Deny reality all you want...still doesn't make your argument true.
If it comes from an anti-Choice nutter, that disqualifies it on its face.
You don't even know what you are arguing...you are just spewing crap.
So...everyone should obviously then discount you for being a pro abortion nutter.
No, I just don't take YOU seriously, because you dwell on the most lurid accounts of the Gosnell case, most of which are not being repeated in the mainstream media, like they are some kind of low-grade porn. So I dismiss any link you post without reading.
Here's the reality.
Women are not going to stop having sex because you want them to.
Women are not going to give birth to babies they don't want.
You anti-Choice nutters are the reason Gosnell existed, because these poor women couldn't get an appointment at a nice clean abortion clinic where White People go to "take care of that problem".
Learn to deal.
A series of emergency calls made from the Planned Parenthood of Delaware this year are raising concerns about whats happening behind the closed doors.
Jayne Mitchell-Werbrich, former employee said, It was just unsafe. I couldnt tell you how ridiculously unsafe it was.
Werbrich alleges conditions inside the facility were unsanitary. Another former employee, Joyce Vasikonis told Action News, They were using instruments on patients that were not sterile.
The former nurses claim that a rush to get patients in and out left operating tables soiled and unclean. Werbrich said Its not washed down, its not even cleaned off. It has bloody drainage on it.
They could be at risk of getting hepatitis, even AIDS, added Vasikonis.
Both of these nurses said, they quit to protect their own medical licenses, stunned by what they called a meat-market style of assembly-line abortions.
Planned Parenthood needs to close its doors, its needs to be cleaned up, the staff needs to be trained, said Werbrich.
[
I was arguing neither of the two points you listed.
Maybe you should just argue with yourself, huh.
As for your last point...sorry you are wrong...The Grand Jury even stated as much ( which I quoted)...the regulations in place to protect women ( even the poor women you claim to care about so much). Were ignored "by design"...by the very people whose job it was to see that they were being followed. Deny reality all you want...still doesn't make your argument true.
No, you just want to put up the pornographic bits of Gosnell's case to paint all abortion providers ( a term I suspect you hate.)
so let's concede the point- Gosnell was an inept doctor who never should have been practicing ANY kind of medicine, but most abortion providers are good at their jobs and abortions are statistically safer than live birth.
Somehow, I dont' see you making that concession.
Idiot abortion mills aren't even inspected properly for fear of backlash from liberal nutjobs like yourself
]
Getting a legal abortion is much safer than giving birth, suggests a new U.S. study published Monday.
Researchers found that women were about 14 times more likely to die during or after giving birth to a live baby than to die from complications of an abortion.
Experts say the findings, though not unexpected, contradict some state laws that suggest abortions are high-risk procedures.
The message is that getting an abortion and giving birth are both safe, said Dr. Anne Davis, who studies obstetrics and gynecology at the Columbia University Medical Center in New York, and wasn't involved in the new study.
"We wouldn't tell people, 'Don't have a baby because it's safer to have an abortion' -- that's ridiculous," she told Reuters Health. "We're trying to help women who are having all reproductive experiences know what to expect."
An induced abortion -- like any other medical procedure -- requires getting informed consent from the woman, said Dr. Bryna Harwood, an ob-gyn from the University of Illinois in Chicago who also didn't participate in the new research.
That means women understand and acknowledge the risks of their different options.
What makes it complicated, Harwood added, is when the law interferes and requires doctors to state information that isn't always balanced or medically sound -- usually exaggerating the risk of abortion.
The researchers on the new study combined government data on live births and pregnancy- and abortion-related deaths with estimates on legal abortions performed in the U.S. from the Guttmacher Institute, which conducts sexual and reproductive health research and education.
[
He also employed many abortion "providers" that were working with expired licenses or no licenses at all. Which was ignored by the state. You think women seeking an abortion want to be worked on by abortion providers with no credentials? I also bet this is more common than you are letting on.
I think what you pro abortion people are afraid of is...if the rock is lifted...we are going to find that this is common place...and you have then created a situation where women will be afraid (and rightly so) to seek an abortion for fear of death, mutilation or sterilization..
You clearly do NOT have the welfare of women in mind by denying reality.
Idiot abortion mills aren't even inspected properly for fear of backlash from liberal nutjobs like yourself
]
Abortion mills? Is that like a puppy mill? Because you guys say "Mill" like it's a bad thing.
Fact is most abortions are performed in nice, safe clean abortion clinics, and abortion statistically is safer than giving birth. Maybe we need to inspect the maternity wards!
Abortion safer than giving birth: study | Reuters
Getting a legal abortion is much safer than giving birth, suggests a new U.S. study published Monday.
Researchers found that women were about 14 times more likely to die during or after giving birth to a live baby than to die from complications of an abortion.
Experts say the findings, though not unexpected, contradict some state laws that suggest abortions are high-risk procedures.
The message is that getting an abortion and giving birth are both safe, said Dr. Anne Davis, who studies obstetrics and gynecology at the Columbia University Medical Center in New York, and wasn't involved in the new study.
"We wouldn't tell people, 'Don't have a baby because it's safer to have an abortion' -- that's ridiculous," she told Reuters Health. "We're trying to help women who are having all reproductive experiences know what to expect."
An induced abortion -- like any other medical procedure -- requires getting informed consent from the woman, said Dr. Bryna Harwood, an ob-gyn from the University of Illinois in Chicago who also didn't participate in the new research.
That means women understand and acknowledge the risks of their different options.
What makes it complicated, Harwood added, is when the law interferes and requires doctors to state information that isn't always balanced or medically sound -- usually exaggerating the risk of abortion.
The researchers on the new study combined government data on live births and pregnancy- and abortion-related deaths with estimates on legal abortions performed in the U.S. from the Guttmacher Institute, which conducts sexual and reproductive health research and education.
[
I was arguing neither of the two points you listed.
Maybe you should just argue with yourself, huh.
As for your last point...sorry you are wrong...The Grand Jury even stated as much ( which I quoted)...the regulations in place to protect women ( even the poor women you claim to care about so much). Were ignored "by design"...by the very people whose job it was to see that they were being followed. Deny reality all you want...still doesn't make your argument true.
No, you just want to put up the pornographic bits of Gosnell's case to paint all abortion providers ( a term I suspect you hate.)
so let's concede the point- Gosnell was an inept doctor who never should have been practicing ANY kind of medicine, but most abortion providers are good at their jobs and abortions are statistically safer than live birth.
Somehow, I dont' see you making that concession.
He also employed many abortion "providers" that were working with expired licenses or no licenses at all. Which was ignored by the state. You think women seeking an abortion want to be worked on by abortion providers with no credentials? I also bet this is more common than you are letting on.
I think what you pro abortion people are afraid of is...if the rock is lifted...we are going to find that this is common place...and you have then created a situation where women will be afraid (and rightly so) to seek an abortion for fear of death, mutilation or sterilization..
You clearly do NOT have the welfare of women in mind by denying reality.
Joe, your link saying abortion is safer than giving birth?Idiot abortion mills aren't even inspected properly for fear of backlash from liberal nutjobs like yourself
]
Abortion mills? Is that like a puppy mill? Because you guys say "Mill" like it's a bad thing.
Fact is most abortions are performed in nice, safe clean abortion clinics, and abortion statistically is safer than giving birth. Maybe we need to inspect the maternity wards!
Abortion safer than giving birth: study | Reuters
Getting a legal abortion is much safer than giving birth, suggests a new U.S. study published Monday.
Researchers found that women were about 14 times more likely to die during or after giving birth to a live baby than to die from complications of an abortion.
Experts say the findings, though not unexpected, contradict some state laws that suggest abortions are high-risk procedures.
The message is that getting an abortion and giving birth are both safe, said Dr. Anne Davis, who studies obstetrics and gynecology at the Columbia University Medical Center in New York, and wasn't involved in the new study.
"We wouldn't tell people, 'Don't have a baby because it's safer to have an abortion' -- that's ridiculous," she told Reuters Health. "We're trying to help women who are having all reproductive experiences know what to expect."
An induced abortion -- like any other medical procedure -- requires getting informed consent from the woman, said Dr. Bryna Harwood, an ob-gyn from the University of Illinois in Chicago who also didn't participate in the new research.
That means women understand and acknowledge the risks of their different options.
What makes it complicated, Harwood added, is when the law interferes and requires doctors to state information that isn't always balanced or medically sound -- usually exaggerating the risk of abortion.
The researchers on the new study combined government data on live births and pregnancy- and abortion-related deaths with estimates on legal abortions performed in the U.S. from the Guttmacher Institute, which conducts sexual and reproductive health research and education.
President Ronald Reagan stated in 1984 that during an abortion:
The fetus feels pain which is long and agonizing.After President Ronald Reagan said this then it set off a furious reaction by pro-choice advocates. They did not want to believe this, nor did they want the public to believe it. But twenty-six medical authorities, including two past presidents of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, stepped forward with a letter documenting that the unborn does in fact feel pain during an abortion.
Their letter says in part: [2]
Mr. President, in drawing attention to the capability of the human fetus to feel pain, you stand on firmly established ground…. That the unborn, the prematurely born, and the new-born of the human species is a highly complex, sentient, functioning, individual organism is established scientific fact…. Over the last eighteen years, real time ultrasonography, fetoscopy, study of the fetal EKG [electrocardiogram] and the fetal EEG [electroencephalogram] have demonstrated the remarkable responsiveness of the human fetus to pain, touch, and sound.Pioneer fetologist Albert Iiley, of the University of Auckland, says that by the fifty-sixth day after conception, the baby's spinal reflexes are sufficiently developed to feel pain. He adds: [3]
When doctors first began invading the sanctuary of the womb, they did not know that the unborn baby would react to pain in the same fashion as a child would. But they soon learned he did.Dr. Liley's observation is graphically demonstrated in Dr. Bernard Nathanson's classic film, The Silent Scream, the first widely circulated ultrasound of an actual abortion. [4] It shows a child serenely resting in her mother's womb. Suddenly the child is alarmed because of the intruding abortion device. She moves as far away as she can, trying desperately to save her life. Just before her body is torn to pieces and sucked out through the vacuum tube, her tiny mouth opens in an unheard scream of terror. After the abortion the doctor who performed it was invited to view the ultrasound. He was so upset with what he saw that he left the room. Though he had performed over ten thousand abortions, he never performed another one. Source: abortion facts
a stat that always amazed me was something like 7.5% of women who have had abortions have had 3 or more. IDK, i guess they figure it's easier than having to remember to take a pill everyday.
[
Well that was a useless post, assuming study is accurate, I'm sure there are lots and lots of women who go through a risky pregnancy because they want a baby. That stupid study doesn't really mean much in the big scheme of things. It should also be broken down into the stage of pregnancy the abortion takes place
Joe, your link saying abortion is safer than giving birth?
It's ridiculous because one person always dies in an abortion. That person cannot fight back and pop the dumb doctor in the chops!
And it's a horrible, painful, undesirable way to die.
]
[
Well that was a useless post, assuming study is accurate, I'm sure there are lots and lots of women who go through a risky pregnancy because they want a baby. That stupid study doesn't really mean much in the big scheme of things. It should also be broken down into the stage of pregnancy the abortion takes place
Well, here's the thing.
1) You guys don't want to just ban late abortions, you want to ban ALL abortions.
2) Your argument (and that of others here) is that Gosnell is typical of abortion providers when he isn't. Any industry, you will find the guys who simply do not give a fuck. And they will get customers who are either desperate or don't know any better.
