Gruber: Biggest Ass in America?

[boedicca]

IOW: ObamaCare is corporate welfare for the Insurance Industry, and the money must flow.

If you force regulation onto an industry that's never been tried before, there should also be protections from resulting catastrophies, especially in the case of something as critical as healthcare.

If insurance carriers went broke all at once, less than 2% of Americans could afford medical care. This would result in the access to care crisis I've talked about...which could very well lead to a government system

Scuze me - but the Insurance Industry cooperated in the drafting of this bill. And I'm pretty clear that health insurance IS NOT HEALTH CARE. If they screwed up there businesses by aligning themselves with Obama, then tough for them. Continuing with the ACA is just throwing good money after bad. No Bail Outs for insurance companies.

God, do you believe everything you read?

They had to give their input, but by no means could you consider them co-authors of the law.

But if you favor a government system, it may just come to that

God, do you believe everything your Insurance Industry shills tell you?

I most certainly do not favor a government system. Leaving ObamaCare in place will lead to that.

You may have missed what I said.

I do this for a living. I talk to 20-50 people a day about ACA plans. I talk with people at the federal exchange all day. I've been in on systems integration meetings prior to the change to ACA, and I can't emphasize enough about how little pundits, writers, and politicians know about the ACA.

If you think there are shills in the insurance industry, then I'm one of them.

Ah, so you feed off the program and have a vested interest in its continuation. Thank you for that disclosure.

 

[boedicca]

Describe in your own words the 'basic premise' of this law.

I know the answer to that.

Provide access to affordable healthcare.

It's not actually doing that either.

What's happened is it's allowed people access to expensive healthcare where they couldn't be insured before, and the prices for the rest have gone up.

That's what happened.

Scuze me - that is nonsense. Given the high co-pays and deductibles, the health care people access is largely paid via there own cash anyway, which they could have done prior to ObamaCare.

You're not taking into account how much those costs would have risen anyway without the ACA.

What you wrote doesn't seem to addres my points, could you clarify?

I already addressed your comments - you just don't care for the answer.

Health insurance is not health care. If we want to improve access to health care, there are better ways to do it instead of having the Feds bail out insurance companies. I've provided ideas on how to do that in numerous threads on the topic.

Frankly you have no idea what you're talking about.

That's like someone who just learned how to change an oil filter, telling GM how to build a car

You have your head up the insurance industry ass, so your credibility is shot.

And you've derailed this thread away from the Gruber testimony. He outed the sham that ObamaCare is - the very sham you are defending.

Toodles!

 

[Ame®icano]

Besides telling most Americans they're idiots, which I agree with, what did this guy do that warrants the expense of an inquiry like this?

Does it make Obamacare any more likely to be repealed?

And is it even being covered by the mainstream media?

The Federal govt paid him a substantial amount of money. So there is a reason there.
It also shows how the Dems schemed to get this crap passed. Gruber isnt sorry he said that shit. He's only sorry he got caught saying it.

True.

And thats the same reason why Elijah Cummings blasted on him:

"We debated this legislation for nearly a year before it was finally passed and signed by the president! Never once did I believe or did anyone suggest that we were somehow hiding our goals from the American people."

Well, if they were not hiding, then why discussing about it behind doors and making back room deals. His next quote kinda describe it.

"But worst of all, Dr. Gruber’s statements gave Republicans a public relations gift in their relentless political campaign to tear down the ACA and eliminate health care for millions of Americans."

 

[The Rabbi]

The DNC will be leading hte charge to repeal Obamacare. Look how many elections it's cost them.

Sure, that'll happen.......uh boyeee....

What some of the purple states Democrats might do is support some changes, like removing the medical device tax.

Look at the comments by Schumer and Harkin on how supporting Obamacare was a mistake. Look at the losses the Democrats have sustained from this debacle. Half of the 60 who voted for it are gone. The rest are running scared.
Yeah, they'll vote to repeal, replace, or anything else to run away.

I work for a medical insurance company, and did you know that doing an "about face" right now would be more trouble for us, doctors, and patients, then trying to tweak it and make it work?

Awwww, my heart bleeds for you.
There is no "tweaking" this shit. The basic premise of the law is so flawed nothing good can come out of it. It needs to be scrapped pronto.

You don't know what you're talking about then....

That law has metastasized itself to our industry. You can't just dust off the old systems we used before the ACA, change everyone's plans back t what they were, rehire all the people that left because of it.

You'd wind up cutting off the head to cure the headache.

Just as the industry adapted after ACA so it can adapt after its repeal.
I have zero sympathy for health insurers. They were the biggest cheerleaders for Obamacare, loving the idea of the federal government forcing people to buy their products at inflated prices. They didnt count on people opting out and paying the tax instead, leaving the industry with much older and sicker in their pools than they anticipated.
So, yeah. Fuck them. Get with the picture and stop trying to be a government bitch monopoly.

 

[The Rabbi]

The DNC will be leading hte charge to repeal Obamacare. Look how many elections it's cost them.

Sure, that'll happen.......uh boyeee....

What some of the purple states Democrats might do is support some changes, like removing the medical device tax.

Look at the comments by Schumer and Harkin on how supporting Obamacare was a mistake. Look at the losses the Democrats have sustained from this debacle. Half of the 60 who voted for it are gone. The rest are running scared.
Yeah, they'll vote to repeal, replace, or anything else to run away.

I work for a medical insurance company, and did you know that doing an "about face" right now would be more trouble for us, doctors, and patients, then trying to tweak it and make it work?

Awwww, my heart bleeds for you.
There is no "tweaking" this shit. The basic premise of the law is so flawed nothing good can come out of it. It needs to be scrapped pronto.

Describe in your own words the 'basic premise' of this law.

That costs can be "bent down" via government fiat in a system that encourages over use of medical resources.
You'll need an adult to explain that to you because you are in no way capable of understanding it.

 

[The Rabbi]

IOW: ObamaCare is corporate welfare for the Insurance Industry, and the money must flow.

If you force regulation onto an industry that's never been tried before, there should also be protections from resulting catastrophies, especially in the case of something as critical as healthcare.

If insurance carriers went broke all at once, less than 2% of Americans could afford medical care. This would result in the access to care crisis I've talked about...which could very well lead to a government system

Scuze me - but the Insurance Industry cooperated in the drafting of this bill. And I'm pretty clear that health insurance IS NOT HEALTH CARE. If they screwed up there businesses by aligning themselves with Obama, then tough for them. Continuing with the ACA is just throwing good money after bad. No Bail Outs for insurance companies.

God, do you believe everything you read?

They had to give their input, but by no means could you consider them co-authors of the law.

But if you favor a government system, it may just come to that

God, do you believe everything your Insurance Industry shills tell you?

I most certainly do not favor a government system. Leaving ObamaCare in place will lead to that.

You may have missed what I said.

I do this for a living. I talk to 20-50 people a day about ACA plans. I talk with people at the federal exchange all day. I've been in on systems integration meetings prior to the change to ACA, and I can't emphasize enough about how little pundits, writers, and politicians know about the ACA.

If you think there are shills in the insurance industry, then I'm one of them.

Ah yeah. The old "I man a telephone so I know what Im talking about and no one else does."
Spare us.
Fuck the insurance companies. Let them compete with each other on a level playing field without gov't mandates and subsidies.
As Boe points out, health insurance is not health care. The opposite actually. The growth of third party payers has gone hand in hand with the growth of health care costs. Health care is the one retail good or service that virtually no one price shops on. But they should.

 

[Ame®icano]

Little more of Gruber. Sponsored by the Center for American Progress.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Liberal elites thinks American voters who didn't support the legislation are stupid yet the legislation's architect depended on the stupidity of those needed to support it; including, the CBO who if they smelled traces of a tax, the bill would have died.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Watching Jonathan Gruber's ass get hauled before a House Committee, I think it was the first time where I saw someone sitting alone on an island....no friends. The Republicans and Democrats ripped him.

 

[Bush92]

Gruber is typical of Washington politics. the people are stupid. Just look at Iraq War and majority thinking it was about 9-11. Or Obamacare, and how people just let it happen.

 

[boedicca]

Watching Jonathan Gruber's ass get hauled before a House Committee, I think it was the first time where I saw someone sitting alone on an island....no friends. The Republicans and Democrats ripped him.

The Dems will never forgive Gruber for telling the truth.

 

[bripat9643]

The Federal govt paid him a substantial amount of money. So there is a reason there.
It also shows how the Dems schemed to get this crap passed. Gruber isnt sorry he said that shit. He's only sorry he got caught saying it.

BINGO. I really love how he can't remember how much he was paid. What a tool.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx
does the following ring a bell ?

Hitlery Clintoon invented the Clinton defense of "I don't recall/I don't remember,"

she used, “I don't recall” some 50 times in one deposition, that also proved to be very effective.

I'm glad you all are so confident this will lead to a repeal of Obamacare.

But that can't possibly happen before the 1st quarter of 2017, if a Republican president is elected, or a Democrat that will allow a Republican congress to make those changes.

Wrong.
It will take 2/3rds of each house of Congress to over ride a veto. And at the rate Democrats are running scared that wont be hard.

see post # 323.

Also...if Obamacare is repealed, there are millions of people who might vote Democratic in 2016, who might have otherwise voted Republican, just to be able to keep their medical insurance.

Wrong. Those people are already Democrats.

 

[boedicca]

BINGO. I really love how he can't remember how much he was paid. What a tool.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx
does the following ring a bell ?

Hitlery Clintoon invented the Clinton defense of "I don't recall/I don't remember,"

she used, “I don't recall” some 50 times in one deposition, that also proved to be very effective.

I'm glad you all are so confident this will lead to a repeal of Obamacare.

But that can't possibly happen before the 1st quarter of 2017, if a Republican president is elected, or a Democrat that will allow a Republican congress to make those changes.

Wrong.
It will take 2/3rds of each house of Congress to over ride a veto. And at the rate Democrats are running scared that wont be hard.

see post # 323.

Also...if Obamacare is repealed, there are millions of people who might vote Democratic in 2016, who might have otherwise voted Republican, just to be able to keep their medical insurance.

Wrong. Those people are already Democrats.

He's also neglecting the 10s of millions who will be happy to see ObamaCare repealed as they Didn't Get To Keep The Plan They Liked and Didn't Get To Keep The Doctor They Liked.

 

[boedicca]

I think we should all write reviews for Gruber's comic book on Amazon!

http://www.amazon.com/Health-Care-R...ef=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8&tag=ff0d01-20

 

[daws101]

right and the republicans are angels. Just a little bias don't cha think?

Gruber and his ilk and those who hired him are not angels.

This Administration is certainly not full of angels.

I think Republicans have a better balance.

I disagree, this administration is no more or less balanced then the last one, unless you're racist.

Wrong.
The last administration never promised "if you like your doctor you can ke your doctor."
They never waged war on businesses
They never engaged in the level of crony capitalism we see today
They never openly violated the law like this one.

The old "they all do it" just wont fly here.

bullshit !
The Broken Promises of George W. Bush:
Rhetoric vs. Reality
08/09/04 "American Progress" -- President Bush made a lot of promises during his 2000 presidential campaign. The record shows it was all talk.
Bush-Cheney 2000 website]

In the first two years Bush was in office, the number of uninsured American increased by nearly four million. Since Bush took office, health insurance premiums have risen by an average rate of 12.5 percent per year. According to a major study, "widespread adoption [of Bush's major health care plan] could drive up the annual deductible paid by workers." [Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 7/8/04; Kaiser Family Foundation, 4/04; USA Today, 4/25/04]
"George W. Bush will establish the 'Healthy Communities Innovation Fund' to provide $500 million in grants over five years to fund innovative projects addressing targeted health risks, such as childhood diabetes."
[Source: Bush-Cheney 2000 website]
Bush never established this fund. [Source: The Philadelphia Inquirer, 1/20/04]
Bush-Cheney 2000 website]

For the past three years, the Department of Defense has requested that Congress exempt it from environmental laws and regulations like the Clean Air Act of 1970. The exemptions were requested despite the fact that the Environmental Protection Agency has thus far declined to apply the policies to the military training facilities in question.
[Source: Government Executive Magazine, 4/6/04]
Bush-Cheney 2000 – Education website]

President Bush has frozen the maximum Pell Grant at $4,050 in his FY 2005 education budget. This is the third year in a row that Bush has frozen or cut the maximum Pell Grant. [Source: House Committee on Education and the Work Force 2/2/04]
Bush-Cheney 2000 – Child Welfare website]

Bush has proposed allowing states to use the federal funds currently earmarked for foster care room-and-board payments to be used for preventative services. In exchange, states must accept a spending cap on the amount of foster care funding they receive. [Source: Philadelphia Inquirer, 3/24/04]
Energy, Nominations, National Security
On everything from energy, to judicial nominations, to nuclear nonproliferation policy, President Bush has broken his promises to the American people.
Bush-Cheney 2000 – Energy website]

Bush's first budget, for the 2002 fiscal year, cut LIHEAP funding by $300 million as compared with the previous year, despite higher unemployment and a colder winter. [Source: CBS, 12/11/02]
Bush-Cheney 2000 website]

When Democrats objected to the nomination of William Pryor to the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals, the White House stood by its allies who leveled charges of anti-Catholic bias at the Democrats. When Sen. Patrick Leahy confronted Vice President Cheney about the impropriety of this charge on the Senate floor, Cheney civilly told him to "F*** off." [Source: CBS, 6/25/04]
Bush-Cheney 2000 – Foreign Policy website]

Despite repeated claims this spring that he favors further expansion of the successful Nunn-Lugar program, Bush's proposed budget for FY 2005 cuts funding for Nunn-Lugar by 10 percent and cuts the Department of Energy's Russian nuclear security funding by 8 percent. [Source: Carnegie Endowment for Peace, 3/3/0/04]
Spending, Deficits and Taxes
Presidential candidate George W. Bush promised to be a fiscal conservative, and not destroy the surplus that had been created during the 1990s. But as the record shows, he has overseen the worst budget deterioration in modern American history – and misled the country about who will receive his tax cuts.
Bush-Cheney 2000 website]

Since assuming office, President Bush has failed to veto a single bill, despite the enormous amount of pork that has crossed his desk. Even conservatives are getting frustrated. The Heritage Foundation recently wrote, "Budget discipline clearly isn't a priority of this administration, so why pretend it will get tough on frivolous measures like these?"
[Source: Heritage Foundation, 6/28/04]
George W. Bush, 2/15/00]

The top 20 percent of earners received 69.8 percent of President Bush's tax cuts. [Source: CBPP, 4/23/04, p. 17]
"Governor Bush's income tax cuts will benefit all Americans, but they are especially focused on low and moderate income families."
[Source: Bush-Cheney 2000 – Taxes website]
Millionaires received an average tax cut of $123,000. Those in the bottom quintile of earners received an average tax cuts of $27. Those in the second to bottom quintile received an average cut of $317. [Source: CBPP, 4/23/04, p. 17]
Bush-Cheney 2000 website]

As of July 30, the national debt stood at $7,316,567,571,232.89, a record high. This year's budget will also create a record deficit: $445 billion, according to the White House. [Source: Treasury Department, 8/3/04, Reuters, 7/31/04]
Bush-Cheney 2000 – Social Security website]

During 2002, the first fiscal year for which Bush was responsible, he spent $159 billion of the Social Security Trust Fund surplus.
[Source: CBO Historical Budget Data, ]
© American Progress Action Fund
(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. Information Clearing House has no affiliation whatsoever with the originator of this article nor is Information Clearing House endorsed or sponsored by the originator.)

The Broken Promises of George W. Bush

Irrelevant.
Campaign promises are not lies. They dont even begin to rise to the level of what Obama has said.
That's a fail.

how'd I know you'd rationalize the shit out of that!

 

[HenryBHough]

Gruber loses. Moochelle retains title for sixth consecutive year!

 

[daws101]

Reagan campaign poster from 1984,

 

[daws101]

OK. I'll give you one.

Obama abolished the Federal student employment programs, including the Student Career Experience Program. He replaced them -- they were popular and allowed for flexible recruitment as well as the ability to hire the student into a career job non-competitively upon graduation -- with a system that only allows for use of USAJobs.gov (if you've ever tried to get a government job that way, you'd know why that's totally dysfunctional.

Agencies objected but the WH insisted.

so he went to a fairer, more competitive system.
the horror.

If you knew anything about USAJobs and the way it has corrupted the merit system, you wouldn't make that comment,

It has not made the system fairer, easier, or more meritorious.

It has made it less of all of those.

how so?

Let me suggest a little exercise to you.

Post your resume on USAJobs and see how far you get.

Then get back to me.

The government doesnt hire high school sophomores.

yes they do ever hear of congressional page?

 

[The Rabbi]

Gruber and his ilk and those who hired him are not angels.

This Administration is certainly not full of angels.

I think Republicans have a better balance.

I disagree, this administration is no more or less balanced then the last one, unless you're racist.

Wrong.
The last administration never promised "if you like your doctor you can ke your doctor."
They never waged war on businesses
They never engaged in the level of crony capitalism we see today
They never openly violated the law like this one.

The old "they all do it" just wont fly here.

bullshit !
The Broken Promises of George W. Bush:
Rhetoric vs. Reality
08/09/04 "American Progress" -- President Bush made a lot of promises during his 2000 presidential campaign. The record shows it was all talk.
Bush-Cheney 2000 website]

In the first two years Bush was in office, the number of uninsured American increased by nearly four million. Since Bush took office, health insurance premiums have risen by an average rate of 12.5 percent per year. According to a major study, "widespread adoption [of Bush's major health care plan] could drive up the annual deductible paid by workers." [Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 7/8/04; Kaiser Family Foundation, 4/04; USA Today, 4/25/04]
"George W. Bush will establish the 'Healthy Communities Innovation Fund' to provide $500 million in grants over five years to fund innovative projects addressing targeted health risks, such as childhood diabetes."
[Source: Bush-Cheney 2000 website]
Bush never established this fund. [Source: The Philadelphia Inquirer, 1/20/04]
Bush-Cheney 2000 website]

For the past three years, the Department of Defense has requested that Congress exempt it from environmental laws and regulations like the Clean Air Act of 1970. The exemptions were requested despite the fact that the Environmental Protection Agency has thus far declined to apply the policies to the military training facilities in question.
[Source: Government Executive Magazine, 4/6/04]
Bush-Cheney 2000 – Education website]

President Bush has frozen the maximum Pell Grant at $4,050 in his FY 2005 education budget. This is the third year in a row that Bush has frozen or cut the maximum Pell Grant. [Source: House Committee on Education and the Work Force 2/2/04]
Bush-Cheney 2000 – Child Welfare website]

Bush has proposed allowing states to use the federal funds currently earmarked for foster care room-and-board payments to be used for preventative services. In exchange, states must accept a spending cap on the amount of foster care funding they receive. [Source: Philadelphia Inquirer, 3/24/04]
Energy, Nominations, National Security
On everything from energy, to judicial nominations, to nuclear nonproliferation policy, President Bush has broken his promises to the American people.
Bush-Cheney 2000 – Energy website]

Bush's first budget, for the 2002 fiscal year, cut LIHEAP funding by $300 million as compared with the previous year, despite higher unemployment and a colder winter. [Source: CBS, 12/11/02]
Bush-Cheney 2000 website]

When Democrats objected to the nomination of William Pryor to the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals, the White House stood by its allies who leveled charges of anti-Catholic bias at the Democrats. When Sen. Patrick Leahy confronted Vice President Cheney about the impropriety of this charge on the Senate floor, Cheney civilly told him to "F*** off." [Source: CBS, 6/25/04]
Bush-Cheney 2000 – Foreign Policy website]

Despite repeated claims this spring that he favors further expansion of the successful Nunn-Lugar program, Bush's proposed budget for FY 2005 cuts funding for Nunn-Lugar by 10 percent and cuts the Department of Energy's Russian nuclear security funding by 8 percent. [Source: Carnegie Endowment for Peace, 3/3/0/04]
Spending, Deficits and Taxes
Presidential candidate George W. Bush promised to be a fiscal conservative, and not destroy the surplus that had been created during the 1990s. But as the record shows, he has overseen the worst budget deterioration in modern American history – and misled the country about who will receive his tax cuts.
Bush-Cheney 2000 website]

Since assuming office, President Bush has failed to veto a single bill, despite the enormous amount of pork that has crossed his desk. Even conservatives are getting frustrated. The Heritage Foundation recently wrote, "Budget discipline clearly isn't a priority of this administration, so why pretend it will get tough on frivolous measures like these?"
[Source: Heritage Foundation, 6/28/04]
George W. Bush, 2/15/00]

The top 20 percent of earners received 69.8 percent of President Bush's tax cuts. [Source: CBPP, 4/23/04, p. 17]
"Governor Bush's income tax cuts will benefit all Americans, but they are especially focused on low and moderate income families."
[Source: Bush-Cheney 2000 – Taxes website]
Millionaires received an average tax cut of $123,000. Those in the bottom quintile of earners received an average tax cuts of $27. Those in the second to bottom quintile received an average cut of $317. [Source: CBPP, 4/23/04, p. 17]
Bush-Cheney 2000 website]

As of July 30, the national debt stood at $7,316,567,571,232.89, a record high. This year's budget will also create a record deficit: $445 billion, according to the White House. [Source: Treasury Department, 8/3/04, Reuters, 7/31/04]
Bush-Cheney 2000 – Social Security website]

During 2002, the first fiscal year for which Bush was responsible, he spent $159 billion of the Social Security Trust Fund surplus.
[Source: CBO Historical Budget Data, ]
© American Progress Action Fund
(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. Information Clearing House has no affiliation whatsoever with the originator of this article nor is Information Clearing House endorsed or sponsored by the originator.)

The Broken Promises of George W. Bush

Irrelevant.
Campaign promises are not lies. They dont even begin to rise to the level of what Obama has said.
That's a fail.

how'd I know you'd rationalize the shit out of that!

Thats not a rationalization. Campaign promises are just that. Promises. Obama lied out and out. "BOOSH" just wont work anymore. Sorry. You'll have to learn a new trick.

 

[The Rabbi]

so he went to a fairer, more competitive system.
the horror.

If you knew anything about USAJobs and the way it has corrupted the merit system, you wouldn't make that comment,

It has not made the system fairer, easier, or more meritorious.

It has made it less of all of those.

how so?

Let me suggest a little exercise to you.

Post your resume on USAJobs and see how far you get.

Then get back to me.

The government doesnt hire high school sophomores.

yes they do ever hear of congressional page?

Gawd, even when you try to be snarky you fuck up. You are not the biggest fuck up on this board only because competition is keen.

United States House of Representatives Page Program was a program run by the United States House of Representatives, under the office of the Clerk of the House, in which appointed high school juniors acted as non-partisan federal employees in the House of Representatives, providing supplemental administrative support to House operations in a variety of capacities in Washington, D.C. at the United States Capitol.[1]]