Gun owner...first shot kills homem invader...literally, his first shot...

[Brain357]

I have already proven that criminals are killing many more innocents than your nonexistent defenders are needing hi cap mags for defense.

You are wrong...every time a criminal attacks an innocent person that individual has no idea how many rounds it will take to end the encounter...so a standard capacity magazine is the bare minimum an individual should carry...and they should have spares as well...3 or more attackers...nullifies a 5 round revolver and ten rounds just might not do the trick...

But that call is for the person who has to make the decision that their life will depend on...not you...if you want to carry a 5 round revolver...great...leave other people alone...

Not one more bullet, weapon or piece of equipment...

Then provide examples of a revolver not doing the trick. I have 2 of it doing the trick. One is against 3 armed invaders.

 

[2aguy]

I have to say I am shocked, shocked...that you don't support a law that states criminals may only use a 10 round magazine when they are going to commit a crime or mass shooting...you must not want to save lives...right? It makes just as much sense as your desire to ban standard magazines...

 

[Brain357]

Call them any mags that hold more than 10 rounds then if it makes you feel better. So half of all mass shooters used magazines that held more than 10 rounds.

every major police department issues such magazines

that alone is irrefutable proof such weapons are useful to other civilians for self defense.

your seething dishonesty is pretending mass shooters are a big deal. Mass shooters are a small drop in the amount of murders and the vast majority of murders don't involve normal capacity magazines. SO you are being dishonest by trying to use a tautology to prove your stupid points

its like saying "all murders involving assault weapons involved assault weapons when in reality that is less than 2 percent of all murders

Again, law enforcement have to apprehend criminals. That is completely different than defending. The woman with the .38 revolver successfully defended herself against 3 armed criminals. A police officer would have to do much more and try to apprehend those 3 criminals. A .38 revolver is extremely effective for defense.

So far you haven't been able to come up with a single person needing a hi cap magazine for defense. So it seems that is much more rare than mass shooters.

I don't have to. and given your obvious lack of expertise about firearms tactics you need to STFU.

I teach police officers this stuff, I teach other civilians this stuff. and civilians who are targeted for attack by criminals need more rounds than police officers

you need to prove that there is absolutely NO CHANCE that a civilian who is not a cop will ever NEED more than 10 rounds

if you cannot, your rantings should cease

and since there is no downside to an HONEST CITIZEN packing 18 rounds in a pistol over 10, prudence demands you have as many or more rounds as the criminals who might attack you

Your dishonesty is patent. You don't care about public safety

You want to harass gun owners and incrementally ban our guns

that puts you in the same category with criminals

If you really do all those things then you should easily be able to prove actual examples of someone needing a hi cap magazine for defense. Yet clearly you cannot. What we do have are examples of people defending an in fact needing much less. This very thread the man needed 1 shot. In 2 more women successfully defended with 6 shot revolvers.

I provided you a long list of mass shooters using hi cap magzines to kill innocent people. You have provided none of anyone ever need a hi cap magazine for defense. I do not need to prove that somebody might possibly one day need 11 shots. I have already proven that criminals are killing many more innocents than your nonexistent defenders are needing hi cap mags for defense.

Throw in all the people getting hit by strays when gang bangers empty their hi cap magazines and well it is clear MANY more lives would be saved with a hi cap magazine ban than will every be lost by your imaginary person needing more than 10 shots for defense.

gang bangers violate the laws moron. only someone with a shit for brains IQ would argue bans would stop people who already cannot own ANY FIREARM from getting one of the 5 billion magazines in the USA that hold more than 10 rounds

can you find any case where someone was saved by a fire extinguisher and if not, does that mean people cannot own them

here is the question-I realize your reputation for truthfulness is non existent as is your willingness to actually answer questions

can you GUARANTEE that NO CITIZEN will ever need .more than ten rounds for self defense?

I have shown that a woman with a .38 revolver can defend against 3 armed criminals. If somebody needs more than 10 rounds they are probably going to be dead even if they had 100, so it really doesn't matter.

 

[2aguy]

Well Brain...

.45 ACP - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The Cavalry had fielded some double action revolvers in .38 Long Colt. They determined the .38 caliber round was significantly less effective against determined opponents, such as the warriors encountered in the Moro Rebellion of the Philippine–American War, than the .45 Colt.

 

[turtledude]

every major police department issues such magazines

that alone is irrefutable proof such weapons are useful to other civilians for self defense.

your seething dishonesty is pretending mass shooters are a big deal. Mass shooters are a small drop in the amount of murders and the vast majority of murders don't involve normal capacity magazines. SO you are being dishonest by trying to use a tautology to prove your stupid points

its like saying "all murders involving assault weapons involved assault weapons when in reality that is less than 2 percent of all murders

Again, law enforcement have to apprehend criminals. That is completely different than defending. The woman with the .38 revolver successfully defended herself against 3 armed criminals. A police officer would have to do much more and try to apprehend those 3 criminals. A .38 revolver is extremely effective for defense.

So far you haven't been able to come up with a single person needing a hi cap magazine for defense. So it seems that is much more rare than mass shooters.

I don't have to. and given your obvious lack of expertise about firearms tactics you need to STFU.

I teach police officers this stuff, I teach other civilians this stuff. and civilians who are targeted for attack by criminals need more rounds than police officers

you need to prove that there is absolutely NO CHANCE that a civilian who is not a cop will ever NEED more than 10 rounds

if you cannot, your rantings should cease

and since there is no downside to an HONEST CITIZEN packing 18 rounds in a pistol over 10, prudence demands you have as many or more rounds as the criminals who might attack you

Your dishonesty is patent. You don't care about public safety

You want to harass gun owners and incrementally ban our guns

that puts you in the same category with criminals

If you really do all those things then you should easily be able to prove actual examples of someone needing a hi cap magazine for defense. Yet clearly you cannot. What we do have are examples of people defending an in fact needing much less. This very thread the man needed 1 shot. In 2 more women successfully defended with 6 shot revolvers.

I provided you a long list of mass shooters using hi cap magzines to kill innocent people. You have provided none of anyone ever need a hi cap magazine for defense. I do not need to prove that somebody might possibly one day need 11 shots. I have already proven that criminals are killing many more innocents than your nonexistent defenders are needing hi cap mags for defense.

Throw in all the people getting hit by strays when gang bangers empty their hi cap magazines and well it is clear MANY more lives would be saved with a hi cap magazine ban than will every be lost by your imaginary person needing more than 10 shots for defense.

gang bangers violate the laws moron. only someone with a shit for brains IQ would argue bans would stop people who already cannot own ANY FIREARM from getting one of the 5 billion magazines in the USA that hold more than 10 rounds

can you find any case where someone was saved by a fire extinguisher and if not, does that mean people cannot own them

here is the question-I realize your reputation for truthfulness is non existent as is your willingness to actually answer questions

can you GUARANTEE that NO CITIZEN will ever need .more than ten rounds for self defense?

I have shown that a woman with a .38 revolver can defend against 3 armed criminals. If somebody needs more than 10 rounds they are probably going to be dead even if they had 100, so it really doesn't matter.

you are being dishonest again on several levels

you are engaged in intellectual dishonesty trying to apply one case to every possible scenario

you refused to answer the operative question

and you cannot establish that people who are legally allowed to own 10 round magazines are more dangerous with 20 round magazines

finally, you want to help criminals, that makes you scum

 

[Brain357]

Well Brain...

.45 ACP - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The Cavalry had fielded some double action revolvers in .38 Long Colt. They determined the .38 caliber round was significantly less effective against determined opponents, such as the warriors encountered in the Moro Rebellion of the Philippine–American War, than the .45 Colt.

I'm not saying it is great for war. We are talking about civilian defense, a HUGE difference.

 

[2aguy]

Here you go...I know, I know, since this didn't appear in a newspaper you know they don't actually exist...

A table on people shot with the various rounds...and the stats on stops...

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power Buckeye Firearms Association

Here are the results:

.25ACP # of people shot - 68 # of hits - 150 % of hits that were fatal - 25% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.2 % of people who were not incapacitated - 35% One-shot-stop % - 30% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 62% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 49%	.22 (short, long and long rifle) # of people shot - 154 # of hits - 213 % of hits that were fatal - 34% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.38 % of people who were not incapacitated - 31% One-shot-stop % - 31% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 60%
.32 (both .32 Long and .32 ACP) # of people shot - 25 # of hits - 38 % of hits that were fatal - 21% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.52 % of people who were not incapacitated - 40% One-shot-stop % - 40% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 78% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 72%	.380 ACP # of people shot - 85 # of hits - 150 % of hits that were fatal - 29% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.76 % of people who were not incapacitated - 16% One-shot-stop % - 44% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 62%
.38 Special # of people shot - 199 # of hits - 373 % of hits that were fatal - 29% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.87 % of people who were not incapacitated - 17% One-shot-stop % - 39% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 55%	9mm Luger # of people shot - 456 # of hits - 1121 % of hits that were fatal - 24% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.45 % of people who were not incapacitated - 13% One-shot-stop % - 34% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 74% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 47%
.357 (both magnum and Sig) # of people shot - 105 # of hits - 179 % of hits that were fatal - 34% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.7 % of people who were not incapacitated - 9% One-shot-stop % - 44% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 81% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 61%	.40 S&W # of people shot - 188 # of hits - 443 % of hits that were fatal - 25% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.36 % of people who were not incapacitated - 13% One-shot-stop % - 45% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 52%
.45 ACP # of people shot - 209 # of hits - 436 % of hits that were fatal - 29% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.08 % of people who were not incapacitated - 14% One-shot-stop % - 39% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 85% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 51%	.44 Magnum # of people shot - 24 # of hits - 41 % of hits that were fatal - 26% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.71 % of people who were not incapacitated - 13% One-shot-stop % - 59% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 88% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 53%
Rifle (all Centerfire) # of people shot - 126 # of hits - 176 % of hits that were fatal - 68% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.4 % of people who were not incapacitated - 9% One-shot-stop % - 58% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 81% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 80%	Shotgun (All, but 90% of results were 12 gauge) # of people shot - 146 # of hits - 178 % of hits that were fatal - 65% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.22 % of people who were not incapacitated - 12% One-shot-stop % - 58% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 84% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 86%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

- See more at: An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power Buckeye Firearms Association

 

[turtledude]

Well Brain...

.45 ACP - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The Cavalry had fielded some double action revolvers in .38 Long Colt. They determined the .38 caliber round was significantly less effective against determined opponents, such as the warriors encountered in the Moro Rebellion of the Philippine–American War, than the .45 Colt.

I'm not saying it is great for war. We are talking about civilian defense, a HUGE difference.

so why do cops have 20-30 round magazines for CIVILIAN DEFENSE

 

[Brain357]

Again, law enforcement have to apprehend criminals. That is completely different than defending. The woman with the .38 revolver successfully defended herself against 3 armed criminals. A police officer would have to do much more and try to apprehend those 3 criminals. A .38 revolver is extremely effective for defense.

So far you haven't been able to come up with a single person needing a hi cap magazine for defense. So it seems that is much more rare than mass shooters.

I don't have to. and given your obvious lack of expertise about firearms tactics you need to STFU.

I teach police officers this stuff, I teach other civilians this stuff. and civilians who are targeted for attack by criminals need more rounds than police officers

you need to prove that there is absolutely NO CHANCE that a civilian who is not a cop will ever NEED more than 10 rounds

if you cannot, your rantings should cease

and since there is no downside to an HONEST CITIZEN packing 18 rounds in a pistol over 10, prudence demands you have as many or more rounds as the criminals who might attack you

Your dishonesty is patent. You don't care about public safety

You want to harass gun owners and incrementally ban our guns

that puts you in the same category with criminals

If you really do all those things then you should easily be able to prove actual examples of someone needing a hi cap magazine for defense. Yet clearly you cannot. What we do have are examples of people defending an in fact needing much less. This very thread the man needed 1 shot. In 2 more women successfully defended with 6 shot revolvers.

I provided you a long list of mass shooters using hi cap magzines to kill innocent people. You have provided none of anyone ever need a hi cap magazine for defense. I do not need to prove that somebody might possibly one day need 11 shots. I have already proven that criminals are killing many more innocents than your nonexistent defenders are needing hi cap mags for defense.

Throw in all the people getting hit by strays when gang bangers empty their hi cap magazines and well it is clear MANY more lives would be saved with a hi cap magazine ban than will every be lost by your imaginary person needing more than 10 shots for defense.

gang bangers violate the laws moron. only someone with a shit for brains IQ would argue bans would stop people who already cannot own ANY FIREARM from getting one of the 5 billion magazines in the USA that hold more than 10 rounds

can you find any case where someone was saved by a fire extinguisher and if not, does that mean people cannot own them

here is the question-I realize your reputation for truthfulness is non existent as is your willingness to actually answer questions

can you GUARANTEE that NO CITIZEN will ever need .more than ten rounds for self defense?

I have shown that a woman with a .38 revolver can defend against 3 armed criminals. If somebody needs more than 10 rounds they are probably going to be dead even if they had 100, so it really doesn't matter.

you are being dishonest again on several levels

you are engaged in intellectual dishonesty trying to apply one case to every possible scenario

you refused to answer the operative question

and you cannot establish that people who are legally allowed to own 10 round magazines are more dangerous with 20 round magazines

finally, you want to help criminals, that makes you scum

Giffords shooting the shooter was stopped at reload. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that shooting 20 rounds before being stopped at reload is more dangerous than shooting 10 rounds before being stopped at reload.

 

[Brain357]

Here you go...I know, I know, since this didn't appear in a newspaper you know they don't actually exist...

A table on people shot with the various rounds...and the stats on stops...

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power Buckeye Firearms Association

Here are the results:

.25ACP # of people shot - 68 # of hits - 150 % of hits that were fatal - 25% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.2 % of people who were not incapacitated - 35% One-shot-stop % - 30% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 62% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 49%	.22 (short, long and long rifle) # of people shot - 154 # of hits - 213 % of hits that were fatal - 34% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.38 % of people who were not incapacitated - 31% One-shot-stop % - 31% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 60%
.32 (both .32 Long and .32 ACP) # of people shot - 25 # of hits - 38 % of hits that were fatal - 21% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.52 % of people who were not incapacitated - 40% One-shot-stop % - 40% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 78% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 72%	.380 ACP # of people shot - 85 # of hits - 150 % of hits that were fatal - 29% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.76 % of people who were not incapacitated - 16% One-shot-stop % - 44% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 62%
.38 Special # of people shot - 199 # of hits - 373 % of hits that were fatal - 29% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.87 % of people who were not incapacitated - 17% One-shot-stop % - 39% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 55%	9mm Luger # of people shot - 456 # of hits - 1121 % of hits that were fatal - 24% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.45 % of people who were not incapacitated - 13% One-shot-stop % - 34% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 74% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 47%
.357 (both magnum and Sig) # of people shot - 105 # of hits - 179 % of hits that were fatal - 34% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.7 % of people who were not incapacitated - 9% One-shot-stop % - 44% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 81% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 61%	.40 S&W # of people shot - 188 # of hits - 443 % of hits that were fatal - 25% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.36 % of people who were not incapacitated - 13% One-shot-stop % - 45% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 52%
.45 ACP # of people shot - 209 # of hits - 436 % of hits that were fatal - 29% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.08 % of people who were not incapacitated - 14% One-shot-stop % - 39% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 85% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 51%	.44 Magnum # of people shot - 24 # of hits - 41 % of hits that were fatal - 26% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.71 % of people who were not incapacitated - 13% One-shot-stop % - 59% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 88% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 53%
Rifle (all Centerfire) # of people shot - 126 # of hits - 176 % of hits that were fatal - 68% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.4 % of people who were not incapacitated - 9% One-shot-stop % - 58% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 81% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 80%	Shotgun (All, but 90% of results were 12 gauge) # of people shot - 146 # of hits - 178 % of hits that were fatal - 65% Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.22 % of people who were not incapacitated - 12% One-shot-stop % - 58% Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 84% % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 86%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

- See more at: An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power Buckeye Firearms Association

What does that have to do with a successful defense? Most criminals shot anywhere by any gun is going to get the heck out. They aren't criminals because they like hard work.

 

[Brain357]

Well Brain...

.45 ACP - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The Cavalry had fielded some double action revolvers in .38 Long Colt. They determined the .38 caliber round was significantly less effective against determined opponents, such as the warriors encountered in the Moro Rebellion of the Philippine–American War, than the .45 Colt.

I'm not saying it is great for war. We are talking about civilian defense, a HUGE difference.

so why do cops have 20-30 round magazines for CIVILIAN DEFENSE

For about the 500X cops apprehend ciminals. It is entirely different than defending. The woman who shot the guy six times in a successful defense did not have to follow and apprehend the criminal. I cop would have to.

 

[2aguy]

Giffords shooting the shooter was stopped at reload. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that shooting 20 rounds before being stopped at reload is more dangerous than shooting 10 rounds before being stopped at reload.

And the principal at Sandy Hook was gunned down as she charged the attacker...tell me how many civillians will have the bearing under fire to know when they have 2 seconds to charge the attacker...

Rather than drawing their own gun and shooting him at a distance...either hitting him or forcing him to duck or seek cover...or killing him on the spot...

 

[turtledude]

I don't have to. and given your obvious lack of expertise about firearms tactics you need to STFU.

I teach police officers this stuff, I teach other civilians this stuff. and civilians who are targeted for attack by criminals need more rounds than police officers

you need to prove that there is absolutely NO CHANCE that a civilian who is not a cop will ever NEED more than 10 rounds

if you cannot, your rantings should cease

and since there is no downside to an HONEST CITIZEN packing 18 rounds in a pistol over 10, prudence demands you have as many or more rounds as the criminals who might attack you

Your dishonesty is patent. You don't care about public safety

You want to harass gun owners and incrementally ban our guns

that puts you in the same category with criminals

If you really do all those things then you should easily be able to prove actual examples of someone needing a hi cap magazine for defense. Yet clearly you cannot. What we do have are examples of people defending an in fact needing much less. This very thread the man needed 1 shot. In 2 more women successfully defended with 6 shot revolvers.

I provided you a long list of mass shooters using hi cap magzines to kill innocent people. You have provided none of anyone ever need a hi cap magazine for defense. I do not need to prove that somebody might possibly one day need 11 shots. I have already proven that criminals are killing many more innocents than your nonexistent defenders are needing hi cap mags for defense.

Throw in all the people getting hit by strays when gang bangers empty their hi cap magazines and well it is clear MANY more lives would be saved with a hi cap magazine ban than will every be lost by your imaginary person needing more than 10 shots for defense.

gang bangers violate the laws moron. only someone with a shit for brains IQ would argue bans would stop people who already cannot own ANY FIREARM from getting one of the 5 billion magazines in the USA that hold more than 10 rounds

can you find any case where someone was saved by a fire extinguisher and if not, does that mean people cannot own them

here is the question-I realize your reputation for truthfulness is non existent as is your willingness to actually answer questions

can you GUARANTEE that NO CITIZEN will ever need .more than ten rounds for self defense?

I have shown that a woman with a .38 revolver can defend against 3 armed criminals. If somebody needs more than 10 rounds they are probably going to be dead even if they had 100, so it really doesn't matter.

you are being dishonest again on several levels

you are engaged in intellectual dishonesty trying to apply one case to every possible scenario

you refused to answer the operative question

and you cannot establish that people who are legally allowed to own 10 round magazines are more dangerous with 20 round magazines

finally, you want to help criminals, that makes you scum

Giffords shooting the shooter was stopped at reload. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that shooting 20 rounds before being stopped at reload is more dangerous than shooting 10 rounds before being stopped at reload.

that's not true and it matters not. his choice of a magazine was not based on a law moron

 

[2aguy]

More on caliber and incapacitation...

Defensive Carry Caliber and incapacitation The Daily Caller

Although this study showed the percentages of people stopped with one shot are similar between almost all handgun cartridges, there is more to the story. There are people who did not stop no matter how many rounds were fired into them. The smaller-caliber rounds (.22, .25 and .32) had a failure rate roughly two to three times that of the larger-caliber rounds.

 

[turtledude]

Well Brain...

.45 ACP - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The Cavalry had fielded some double action revolvers in .38 Long Colt. They determined the .38 caliber round was significantly less effective against determined opponents, such as the warriors encountered in the Moro Rebellion of the Philippine–American War, than the .45 Colt.

I'm not saying it is great for war. We are talking about civilian defense, a HUGE difference.

so why do cops have 20-30 round magazines for CIVILIAN DEFENSE

For about the 500X cops apprehend ciminals. It is entirely different than defending. The woman who shot the guy six times in a successful defense did not have to follow and apprehend the criminal. I cop would have to.

again, you don't know what you are talking about

are you saying cops use multiple rounds to "apprehend criminals" because they are bad shots

stop being a sniveling coward

answer the fucking questions

 

[2aguy]

More stories of gun fights...

Shoot Until The Threat Stops Shooting The Bull

Fourth example is the murder of South Carolina Trooper Mark Coates by Richard Blackburn. Blackburn knocked Coates to the ground and then shot him in the chest with a .22, but that was stopped by the Trooper’s bullet-resistant vest. Trooper Coates fired at Blackburn with a .357 Magnum, at close contact range, hitting him. Coates then retreated back to his car, calling for help, and continued firing — he hit Blackburn four more times. With a .357 Magnum! Blackburn then fired one more bullet from his .22 derringer, which (due to the angle that Trooper Coates was facing him) happened to find a gap in the armpit of the ballistic vest, and the bullet punctured Coates’s aorta, killing him. And Blackburn, who was hit in the chest five times with the “king of the street” .357 Magnum? He survived, and is now serving a life sentence in prison.

If you read these stories of actual gun fights one thing becomes clear...you do not know how each person shot is going to react or if being shot multiple times will be enough...you have to shoot till the attack is over...and limiting yourself before the encounter is gross, negligent stupidity...

 

[Brain357]

Giffords shooting the shooter was stopped at reload. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that shooting 20 rounds before being stopped at reload is more dangerous than shooting 10 rounds before being stopped at reload.

And the principal at Sandy Hook was gunned down as she charged the attacker...tell me how many civillians will have the bearing under fire to know when they have 2 seconds to charge the attacker...

Rather than drawing their own gun and shooting him at a distance...either hitting him or forcing him to duck or seek cover...or killing him on the spot...

Reloading might easily give people time to run around a corner or hide. Nobody needs to time anything, if the shooter has 12 targets he can't shoot them all with one bullet. Anything that slows him will give people time to escape.

We aren't arguing about banning guns. Most concealed carry guns have less than 10 rounds.

 

[Brain357]

Well Brain...

.45 ACP - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The Cavalry had fielded some double action revolvers in .38 Long Colt. They determined the .38 caliber round was significantly less effective against determined opponents, such as the warriors encountered in the Moro Rebellion of the Philippine–American War, than the .45 Colt.

I'm not saying it is great for war. We are talking about civilian defense, a HUGE difference.

so why do cops have 20-30 round magazines for CIVILIAN DEFENSE

For about the 500X cops apprehend ciminals. It is entirely different than defending. The woman who shot the guy six times in a successful defense did not have to follow and apprehend the criminal. I cop would have to.

again, you don't know what you are talking about

are you saying cops use multiple rounds to "apprehend criminals" because they are bad shots

stop being a sniveling coward

answer the fucking questions

I have answered it many, many times and it's a very simple concept. It's amazing you can't get it.

 

[turtledude]

Well Brain...

.45 ACP - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I'm not saying it is great for war. We are talking about civilian defense, a HUGE difference.

so why do cops have 20-30 round magazines for CIVILIAN DEFENSE

For about the 500X cops apprehend ciminals. It is entirely different than defending. The woman who shot the guy six times in a successful defense did not have to follow and apprehend the criminal. I cop would have to.

again, you don't know what you are talking about

are you saying cops use multiple rounds to "apprehend criminals" because they are bad shots

stop being a sniveling coward

answer the fucking questions

I have answered it many, many times and it's a very simple concept. It's amazing you can't get it.

no you haven't and a sign of a cowardly weasel is refusing to state an obvious answer

what makes someone trusted to have a 10 round pistol untrustworthy with a 18 round handgun

can you prove NO ONE will ever need more than ten rounds for self defense

and who are you to tell us what we need since you are afraid of guns

 

[Brain357]

More stories of gun fights...

Shoot Until The Threat Stops Shooting The Bull

Fourth example is the murder of South Carolina Trooper Mark Coates by Richard Blackburn. Blackburn knocked Coates to the ground and then shot him in the chest with a .22, but that was stopped by the Trooper’s bullet-resistant vest. Trooper Coates fired at Blackburn with a .357 Magnum, at close contact range, hitting him. Coates then retreated back to his car, calling for help, and continued firing — he hit Blackburn four more times. With a .357 Magnum! Blackburn then fired one more bullet from his .22 derringer, which (due to the angle that Trooper Coates was facing him) happened to find a gap in the armpit of the ballistic vest, and the bullet punctured Coates’s aorta, killing him. And Blackburn, who was hit in the chest five times with the “king of the street” .357 Magnum? He survived, and is now serving a life sentence in prison.

If you read these stories of actual gun fights one thing becomes clear...you do not know how each person shot is going to react or if being shot multiple times will be enough...you have to shoot till the attack is over...and limiting yourself before the encounter is gross, negligent stupidity...

That is not a civilian defense example.