Zone1 Hating Catholics (or the Original Church) is not from God

[forkintheroad7]

There's no evidence that Peter was ever in Rome. You're talking about tradition.

What difference does that make--except that he was crucified there, in Rome. That kind of is evidence against your position

 

[hadit]

Yes, the CC was/is the original Church founded by Christ. I have studied history. The CC is the only one that goes back to the very beginning of Christian history. Study the Church Fathers and you will see this is so (assuming u know anything about Catholicism? Most people do not, even Catholics don't always know much).

Eucharist is there (in the early teachings)
Confession to a priest, etc

The Church of Christ extends far beyond the name on the door. In fact, self-righteously claiming, "We are the body and you are not" puts you at odds with Christ Himself.

1 Corinthians 12:

14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

Don't even try to say you are the whole body when you are only a foot.

 

[Meriweather]

"We are the body and you are not" puts you at odds with Christ Himself.

No one is saying that. It was only noted that the Catholic Church dates back to Christ and the Apostles. That doesn't even put Catholics at odds with anyone, let alone with Christ.

 

[forkintheroad7]

The Church of Christ extends far beyond the name on the door. In fact, self-righteously claiming, "We are the body and you are not" puts you at odds with Christ Himself.

1 Corinthians 12:

14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

Don't even try to say you are the whole body when you are only a foot.

The Church is one

It's supposed to be anyway. It is humans (Luther, Francis.. etc) who divide the Church. Christ never did. He prayed for all his followers to be ONE

I believe that is John, chapter 17?

 

[hadit]

The Church is one

It's supposed to be anyway. It is humans (Luther, Francis.. etc) who divide the Church. Christ never did. He prayed for all his followers to be ONE

I believe that is John, chapter 17?

Yes, it is one, and attempts to divide it by claiming, for example, "The name on our door is better than the name on your door" will be shown to be futile by Christ Himself. In heaven there will be Catholics, Baptists, Mennonites, Franciscans, and yes, even Lutherans. Anyone who confesses with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead. If you can't get along with them down here, you're going to have a tough time of it up there.

You might as well, as the Scripture I quoted says, claim that, because you are a foot, you don't need a hand. The Body is made of many parts that are not alike, but function as one. The sooner we realize that and reject claims of superiority, the better off we all will be.

 

[hadit]

No one is saying that. It was only noted that the Catholic Church dates back to Christ and the Apostles. That doesn't even put Catholics at odds with anyone, let alone with Christ.

The tone of those who continue reciting that is one of superiority, that somehow the name on their church door is superior to the name on the church doors others enter. That's what puts them at odds with the Body.

 

[Meriweather]

The tone of those who continue reciting that is one of superiority, that somehow the name on their church door is superior to the name on the church doors others enter.

That's inference, isn't it, someone inferring someone else has a "tone". Any worded complaint over what you inferred would qualify as a put-down--or an attempt to gain superiority.

 

[hadit]

That's inference, isn't it, someone inferring someone else has a "tone". Any complaint

What other reason would one have to post repetitively that the Catholic Church is the one Christ founded, when in fact He didn't found it? The early Church was clearly Jewish, NOT Catholic. It was only after Paul and Peter got into their famous disagreement that Gentiles were even brought into the fold. The Church Jesus Himself founded was Jewish.

 

[Meriweather]

What other reason would one have to post repetitively that the Catholic Church is the one Christ founded, when in fact He didn't found it? The early Church was clearly Jewish, NOT Catholic. It was only after Paul and Peter got into their famous disagreement that Gentiles were even brought into the fold. The Church Jesus Himself founded was Jewish.

Actually, Jesus did found it. He put Peter in charge, and also gave the command to the Apostles to proclaim the Good News to the ends of the Earth. There is no doubt the Church began with the Jews and spread to the Gentiles. The disagreement Peter and Paul had was after Gentiles were already in the fold! It had already been decided that they did not have to follow Jewish dietary practices or circumcision. Paul got on Peter because after this was decided, Peter was still avoiding eating with Gentiles--and that is why Paul called him a hypocrite.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Yes, it is one, and attempts to divide it by claiming, for example, "The name on our door is better than the name on your door" will be shown to be futile by Christ Himself.

I don't recall anyone here claiming that.

But it figures you would accuse people of saying things they haven't said, since you accuse the Bible of not saying such things as

Mary was a committed virgin

and etc. In other words, the Bible says what YOU want it to say and nothing else.

 

[forkintheroad7]

The tone of those who continue reciting that is one of superiority,

Just because YOU take it that way does not mean it is so.

It's called Projection. You see what you choose to see, based on what is going on inside. I think you should take a hard look at what's going on inside. You could be attacking the Church Christ founded. Catholics know you are. to me, that seems like a dangerous thing to do, considering that the Founder of the CC will judge you Some Day.

 

[forkintheroad7]

What other reason would one have to post repetitively that the Catholic Church is the one Christ founded, when in fact He didn't found it? The early Church was clearly Jewish, NOT Catholic.

I didn't know you were Jewish.

So leaving that aside for now: Are you saying there should have been NO changes in the Church or synagogue after Jesus lived and died and was resurrected?

That seems to be implied in your words

 

[forkintheroad7]

Anyone who confesses with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead.

except Catholics, right?



There doesn't appear to be much consistency in your words.

Actually, that's probably a good sign. When one is uninformed, it's a sign he wants to learn

 

[hadit]

Actually, Jesus did found it. He put Peter in charge, and also gave the command to the Apostles to proclaim the Good News to the ends of the Earth. There is no doubt the Church began with the Jews and spread to the Gentiles. The disagreement Peter and Paul had was after Gentiles were already in the fold! It had already been decided that they did not have to follow Jewish dietary practices or circumcision. Paul got on Peter because after this was decided, Peter was still avoiding eating with Gentiles--and that is why Paul called him a hypocrite.

The first church was not Catholic. It morphed into the Catholic Church, but Jesus did not "found" the Catholic Church.

 

[hadit]

I don't recall anyone here claiming that.

But it figures you would accuse people of saying things they haven't said, since you accuse the Bible of not saying such things as

I'm putting into words what people are saying when they incessantly criticize other denominations and proclaim theirs is correct.

Mary was a committed virgin

You believe that, but it's not Biblical.

and etc. In other words, the Bible says what YOU want it to say and nothing else.

I'm simply going by the plain meaning of the text.

 

[hadit]

Just because YOU take it that way does not mean it is so.

It's called Projection. You see what you choose to see, based on what is going on inside. I think you should take a hard look at what's going on inside. You could be attacking the Church Christ founded. Catholics know you are. to me, that seems like a dangerous thing to do, considering that the Founder of the CC will judge you Some Day.

Like I've already posted, Jesus didn't found the Catholic Church, He founded a Jewish Church that expanded to include Gentiles and ultimately morphed into the Catholic Church, but He did not sit down with His disciples and lay out the power structure, saying "Okay, now you're going to need a Pope, some Cardinals, some Bishops and a lot of Priests. Here are the clothes that they're supposed to wear and the staffs they're supposed to lean on. Oh, and call yourself Catholics". All that was added later, and He most CERTAINLY did NOT found an organization whose adherents were supposed to proclaim themselves superior to followers of other denominations.

Luke 9:

49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

I fully expect the Founder and Perfecter of my faith (not you) to judge me, and I fully expect to have nothing good of my own to offer Him, only His blood that was shed for me. I also fully expect that there will be no artificial man-made denominational boundaries before Him, as no one will give a flying rat's patoot what name was on the door of the Church you attended or anything like that. If you think that's going to be significant, well, I don't. You will rub elbows in heaven with Catholics, Protestants, Baptists, etc.

 

[Meriweather]

The first church was not Catholic. It morphed into the Catholic Church, but Jesus did not "found" the Catholic Church.

Catholic: It means open and welcoming to all. Jesus did not found a church that was know as open and welcoming to all?

 

[hadit]

I didn't know you were Jewish.

Romans 11:

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

So leaving that aside for now: Are you saying there should have been NO changes in the Church or synagogue after Jesus lived and died and was resurrected?

That seems to be implied in your words

No, I'm merely saying that the Catholic Church is not what Jesus founded. The entirety of the Christian Church that extends far beyond any artificial man-made boundaries is what He founded, and it is division, not unity, to exclude any who call on His name.

 

[hadit]

except Catholics, right?



There doesn't appear to be much consistency in your words.

Actually, that's probably a good sign. When one is uninformed, it's a sign he wants to learn

Then you're not paying attention. I explicitly included Catholics with those we see in heaven. I believe that you are in defensive fight mode, where you perceive insult at every turn and do not actually read what is presented to you.

 

[hadit]

Catholic: It means open and welcoming to all. Jesus did not found a church that was know as open and welcoming to all?

Then tell me this, what is the purpose of proclaiming that the modern Catholic Church is the one Jesus founded? Is it not to exclude denominations of other names, or to insinuate that the Catholic Church is somehow "superior" to the others?

We both know that if we were to teleport an early church member through time to a modern Catholic Church service, he would be totally bewildered and have no idea what was going on, assuming of course we removed the language barrier. Likewise, if we took a modern Catholic back through time to an early church service, he would have no idea what was happening either.

The point is, the Church that Christ founded is world-wide, in all cultures and languages, and extends far beyond any artificial man-made denominational boundaries. That's why I do not identify myself by the name on the door of the church of which I am a member.