Hillary supporters are unwilling to have an honest discussion. I'll prove it in this thread.

[dcbl]

Washington post

You are going to have to do better than ask me to read fake news

And you'll have to do better than telling me a well respected 100 plus year old legendary news company is now fake because Trump says it is.

I've asked for examples of public policy lies

You have not been able to provide even one

Telling me to go read a newspaper known to push a left wing agenda is not an example

That newspaper is a source of news ha has served this nation well for over a century. Show me an example of Trump public policy. He's not bought back jobs. The coal industry is not coming back. His tax plan is showing losses of jobs as companies close. The plan stats producing deficits next year, and its a temporary cut for most Americans. He was suppose to have an alternative health care plan and does not. How many examples do you need to see?

What you don't want to see doesn't matter to me. Trump is a liar and the majority of people who think know it.

OK, you are doing a little better now not much, but a little

Point by point

1. Coal. There are more coal jobs now and we are a net exporter of energy now. A lot of that has to do with Trump convincing China to buy more coal as a way to help shrink our trade deficit with them (and put pressure on N Korea) , admittedly an easy thing to get them to do.

Trump has dramatically reduced regulations on the coal industry as well.

But I do have to admit, here is a place you could make an argument for a "lie"

Problem - Trump touted 45K new coal jobs in his SOTU address. Fact is, there are only 8K new coal jobs. Was that a lie, an exaggeration or a big mistake?

I'm inclined to give him a pass, and I am sure you will call this a lie. Fact is, he has done as much as he can do to make things better for the coal industry, but I have to admit that the huge discrepancy in the numbers he touted vs actual numbers is troubling.

Lastly, many experts believe that the gains we have seen will be short lived, that is a "time will tell" situation

2. Tax cuts. They only expire if congress allows it. Deficits next year? That assumes we see weak and stagnant growth like we saw under Obama. Once again this is a time will tell deal. We had record revenues this year (as most of us on the right predicted). So far, your side has been wrong on predictions on this and they are working as planned so far - jury is still out, but so far so good.

3. Health care. He worked hard to get a plan passed in the House and attempted to get it through the Senate. Your attempts to brand this as a "lie" are intellectually dishonest at best and downright pernicious lies from the left at worst. Either way, it's not an example of a broken promise or "lie" by Trump in any way shape or form.

So, we do have a problematic statement on coal jobs, but still no broken promises or public policy lies.

FWIW part 1 - I think the health care bill he was pushing sucked and am glad it failed. That is irrelevant for this discussion though, because it is clearly not an example of a Trump lie...

FWIW part deux - I have zero respect for or trust in WaPo, they have not been honest., nor have they demonstrated journalistic integrity of late. They clearly have an anti Trump and heavily left wing agenda

What else you got?

 

[IM2]

sadly, blacks commit half of all murder in this country and make up 13% of the population. I want my liberalism to be honest

It is sad, and the real truth is that this is allowed to continue because MOST of the murders are committed against other blacks

Bring that shit into the suburbs and it would be stopped with a quickness

And NO, this is not because of RACISM - this shit happens in places like Atlanta, Memphis and New Orleans; major cities run by blacks

Not when 85 percent of all white murders are white on white. The shit happens in the suburbs. And in about the same numbers..

 

[dcbl]

Bernie:
The PolitiFact scorecard

• True 15 (12%)(15)
• Mostly True 46 (38%)(46)
• Half True 27 (22%)(27)
• Mostly False 19 (16%)(19)
• False 15 (12%)(15)

Hillary:

The PolitiFact scorecard

• True 72 (24%)(72)
• Mostly True 76 (26%)(76)
• Half True 69 (23%)(69)
• Mostly False 41 (14%)(41)
• False 31 (10%)(31)
• Pants on Fire 7 (2%)(7)

Trump:

The PolitiFact scorecard

• True 26 (5%)(26)
• Mostly True 64 (11%)(64)
• Half True 87 (16%)(87)
• Mostly False 123 (22%)(123)
• False 178 (32%)(178)
• Pants on Fire 81 (14%)(81)

A left wing source claims Trump is lying

Shocker

The media lies about Trump consistently

You give me an example of a lie - find one and let's see if it can hold up to scrutiny

 

[Confounding]

If you notice the lying scum ends the quote with a period when the actual quote had a comma

Holy shit

Your desperation

Pathetic it is

No, the honest thing would have been to use an ellipsis (...) to show that there was more to the quote rather than dishonestly using a period indicating that the quote was complete.
But you knew that already.

I copied and pasted exactly what was on Politifact.

Here's another link from CBS.

Hillary's NAFTA Lie

Now that we know from the 11,000 pages of Clinton White House documents released this week that former First Lady was an ardent advocate for NAFTA; now that we know she held at least five meetings to strategize about how to win congressional approval of the deal; now that we know she was in the thick of the manuevering to block the efforts of labor, farm, environmental and human rights groups to get a better agreement. Now that we know all of this, how should we assess the claim that Hillary's heart has always beaten to a fair-trade rhythm?

Oh, and NPR...

Evolution Or Expediency? Clinton's Changing Positions Over A Long Career

In 1996, she said, "Oh, I think that everybody is in favor of free and fair trade, and I think that NAFTA is proving its worth."

Oh, and just for fun here is the clip of her supporting it on video. This was in the video I posted and you called me a liar for mentioning it. You watched it though, right?

Hillary Clinton in support of NAFTA

Oh fuck it. Why not her Wikipedia too?

Political positions of Hillary Clinton - Wikipedia

 

[dcbl]

I get it that there was a bill that failed. Okay. What was Trump’s Plan. He said he had a plan.

I’m asking you what the plan was…

No

He said he would come up with a plan by working with Congress

He attempted to do so and his term is not up yet

This is clearly not an example of a lie, except for in liberal la la land

 

[IM2]

Washington post

You are going to have to do better than ask me to read fake news

And you'll have to do better than telling me a well respected 100 plus year old legendary news company is now fake because Trump says it is.

I've asked for examples of public policy lies

You have not been able to provide even one

Telling me to go read a newspaper known to push a left wing agenda is not an example

That newspaper is a source of news ha has served this nation well for over a century. Show me an example of Trump public policy. He's not bought back jobs. The coal industry is not coming back. His tax plan is showing losses of jobs as companies close. The plan stats producing deficits next year, and its a temporary cut for most Americans. He was suppose to have an alternative health care plan and does not. How many examples do you need to see?

What you don't want to see doesn't matter to me. Trump is a liar and the majority of people who think know it.

OK, you are doing a little better now not much, but a little

Point by point

1. Coal. There are more coal jobs now and we are a net exporter of energy now. A lot of that has to do with Trump convincing China to buy more coal as a way to help shrink our trade deficit with them (and put pressure on N Korea) , admittedly an easy thing to get them to do.

Trump has dramatically reduced regulations on the coal industry as well.

But I do have to admit, here is a place you could make an argument for a "lie"

Problem - Trump touted 45K new coal jobs in his SOTU address. Fact is, there are only 8K new coal jobs. Was that a lie, an exaggeration or a big mistake?

I'm inclined to give him a pass, and I am sure you will call this a lie. Fact is, he has done as much as he can do to make things better for the coal industry, but I have to admit that the huge discrepancy in the numbers he touted vs actual numbers is troubling.

Lastly, many experts believe that the gains we have seen will be short lived, that is a "time will tell" situation

2. Tax cuts. They only expire if congress allows it. Deficits next year? That assumes we see weak and stagnant growth like we saw under Obama. Once again this is a time will tell deal. We had record revenues this year (as most of us on the right predicted). So far, your side has been wrong on predictions on this and they are working as planned so far - jury is still out, but so far so good.

3. Health care. He worked hard to get a plan passed in the House and attempted to get it through the Senate. Your attempts to brand this as a "lie" are intellectually dishonest at best and downright pernicious lies from the left at worst. Either way, it's not an example of a broken promise or "lie" by Trump in any way shape or form.

So, we do have a problematic statement on coal jobs, but still no broken promises or public policy lies.

FWIW part 1 - I think the health care bill he was pushing sucked and am glad it failed. That is irrelevant for this discussion though, because it is clearly not an example of a Trump lie...

FWIW part deux - I have zero respect for or trust in WaPo, they have not been honest., nor have they demonstrated journalistic integrity of late. They clearly have an anti Trump and heavily left wing agenda

What else you got?

Everything you post here is not accurate. Trump has made his bed with media. There is no anti Trump agenda, he's just a crooked and corrupt president.

 

[dcbl]

If you notice the lying scum ends the quote with a period when the actual quote had a comma

Holy shit

Your desperation

Pathetic it is

No, the honest thing would have been to use an ellipsis (...) to show that there was more to the quote rather than dishonestly using a period indicating that the quote was complete.
But you knew that already.

Bullshit

You are nitpicking and fabricating a "lie" that does not exist

Seems to be a pattern with far too many people anymore...

 

[dcbl]

More disturbing that qualification for the job is not a mandatory quality in candidates you’re willing to support.

Bernie Sanders has been a Senator for decades. He is qualified. Hillary having held more positions in government doesn't make her a better choice, especially because of that whole lying thing. You're trying to make it sound like I supported some bum off the street. Get real.

Sorry to say this but you’ve just made a moronic statement. I know you hate Ms. Clinton but saying the SoS and all of the other myriad of experiences and posts she has held is not a leg up on a very nondescript senator from Vermont is intellectual dishonesty.

Bernie would have made a much better president, and honesty is important.

Except he wouldn't and he isn't honest. I think you fail to see the world around you. Republicans control both houses. They do not like a lot of spending. Sanders plans involve a whole lot of spending. If he was president right now, he's probably be just as bad as Trump and those like you would be angry because he can't done what he promised. Even worse, Sanders inability to get anything done would allow republicans to continue controlling congress and Sanders would end up a 1 term president.

I actually agree with you here (except for the statement about him not seeing the world around him and Bernie being dishonest)

 

[Confounding]

Bernie:
The PolitiFact scorecard

• True 15 (12%)(15)
• Mostly True 46 (38%)(46)
• Half True 27 (22%)(27)
• Mostly False 19 (16%)(19)
• False 15 (12%)(15)

Hillary:

The PolitiFact scorecard

• True 72 (24%)(72)
• Mostly True 76 (26%)(76)
• Half True 69 (23%)(69)
• Mostly False 41 (14%)(41)
• False 31 (10%)(31)
• Pants on Fire 7 (2%)(7)

Trump:

The PolitiFact scorecard

• True 26 (5%)(26)
• Mostly True 64 (11%)(64)
• Half True 87 (16%)(87)
• Mostly False 123 (22%)(123)
• False 178 (32%)(178)
• Pants on Fire 81 (14%)(81)

A left wing source claims Trump is lyong

Shocker

The media lies about Trump consistently

You give me an example of a lie - find one and let's see if it can hold up to scrutiny

Meh...

Trump's Mostly True claim about Clinton's free trade history

 

[dcbl]

sadly, blacks commit half of all murder in this country and make up 13% of the population. I want my liberalism to be honest

It is sad, and the real truth is that this is allowed to continue because MOST of the murders are committed against other blacks

Bring that shit into the suburbs and it would be stopped with a quickness

And NO, this is not because of RACISM - this shit happens in places like Atlanta, Memphis and New Orleans; major cities run by blacks

Not when 85 percent of all white murders are white on white. The shit happens in the suburbs. And in about the same numbers..

So? You are demonstration intellectual dishonesty or you just flat out don't know what you are talking about

Black's commit more murders by percentage and sheer numbers

They also kill a far greater number of Whites than whites kill blacks

These are super easy facts to prove

 

[Confounding]

But I do have to admit, here is a place you could make an argument for a "lie"

Problem - Trump touted 45K new coal jobs in his SOTU address. Fact is, there are only 8K new coal jobs. Was that a lie, an exaggeration or a big mistake?

I'm inclined to give him a pass, and I am sure you will call this a lie.

He seems to embellish details oftenish. Though that's nothing unusual from the White House to be fair.

 

[kiwiman127]

View attachment 195328

Seems like all Hillary supporters are either nut-cases or brainwashed nut-cases,

Your meme is bullshit and I'm not referring to Hillary.
Trump is having the tax payers pay for his lifestyle, protection for his kids business trips, Trump is milking money as prez anyway he can. He is basically, 'for sale"and little Trumps could care less. But they are the same ones who would support Trump no matter what, including shooting some one on a street.
Your "Hillary supporters are either nut-cases or brainwashed nut-cases", also describes the easily manipulated Trumpster perfectly.

 

[dcbl]

There is no anti Trump agenda

 

[MisterBeale]

LOL

And the name calling begins when you know you don't have an argument on this thread..........know your side is dirty........and no amount of spin will change that.

It cost you the election..........and later your souls............

Souls is a nice word to make people feel secure in their thoughts. But like prayers and thoughts do not protect anything souls is a word of deception like "conservative". If it makes you feel superior call me the great unwashed for I am dirty.

That is character trait of the left.............Like saving the planet and forcing people to install Solar Panels in California.............and not having a clue why we oppose them.

Your side ran a Criminal, a Liar, and the Establishment pick for that cycle.........Over a Billion spent in Dark money that cycle alone...............google open secrets...............and still lost.

The establishment is raging mad.........and so are you.......GOOD.

Why would I be mad? I am simply disappointed that so many can not accept reality of cheeto man and his unAmerican ways.

You know what I think REALLY bugs you, is that "cheeto man," IS the REALITY of America, he is QUINTESSENTIALLY what everyone in America wants to be.

I mean, the MSM even slags him with "cheeto man." Like that is supposed to hurt him? Every real American eats junk food, and fast food. . . Not. . . arugula?

Not just whites, but Asians, Blacks, Hispanics, the young, the old, gay, straight, Women, Men . . .

EVERYONE. They all want to be Donald Trump. He is the alpha to Obama's beta.

They don't want to be seen as an identity, they want to be seen as part of the larger culture, they want opportunity, and they WANT jobs, and security, and they want America to be what it has always been. INCLUSIVE. A melting pot, that at least, is the ideal.

Is he bit of a character? Sure. Is he obnoxious? You bet. Is he larger than life? OH HELL YEAH. Does he hit back hard when he is attacked, of course. . .

BUT that is how every American, now matter what their in-group, would like to see themselves. More than their stupid little sub-groups, they WANT to be part of the larger culture, they WANT to be part of the AMERICAN DREAM.

AND THAT, in a nutshell, is DONALD J. TRUMP.

Not really.

 

[Confounding]

More disturbing that qualification for the job is not a mandatory quality in candidates you’re willing to support.

Bernie Sanders has been a Senator for decades. He is qualified. Hillary having held more positions in government doesn't make her a better choice, especially because of that whole lying thing. You're trying to make it sound like I supported some bum off the street. Get real.

Sorry to say this but you’ve just made a moronic statement. I know you hate Ms. Clinton but saying the SoS and all of the other myriad of experiences and posts she has held is not a leg up on a very nondescript senator from Vermont is intellectual dishonesty.

Bernie would have made a much better president, and honesty is important.

Except he wouldn't and he isn't honest. I think you fail to see the world around you. Republicans control both houses. They do not like a lot of spending. Sanders plans involve a whole lot of spending. If he was president right now, he's probably be just as bad as Trump and those like you would be angry because he can't done what he promised. Even worse, Sanders inability to get anything done would allow republicans to continue controlling congress and Sanders would end up a 1 term president.

I never said Bernie would be able to do everything he wanted to do, or even a chunk of it. Republicans would have obstructed Hillary at every turn too. For me what mattered is that he's a good man with consistent values I agree with. He's the real deal; Hillary is not. I wanted his voice to be heard by all Americans and the world. I believe that would have been valuable on its own.

 

[dcbl]

He seems to embellish details oftenish. Though that's nothing unusual from the White House to be fair.

I'll give you that, but he keeps his campaign promises and does, or tries to do, just about everything he says he will do

You may not like him, but when he says he's gonna do something; you can plan on watching him do it

That's what I have always wanted from a politician

 

[IM2]

More disturbing that qualification for the job is not a mandatory quality in candidates you’re willing to support.

Bernie Sanders has been a Senator for decades. He is qualified. Hillary having held more positions in government doesn't make her a better choice, especially because of that whole lying thing. You're trying to make it sound like I supported some bum off the street. Get real.

Sorry to say this but you’ve just made a moronic statement. I know you hate Ms. Clinton but saying the SoS and all of the other myriad of experiences and posts she has held is not a leg up on a very nondescript senator from Vermont is intellectual dishonesty.

Bernie would have made a much better president, and honesty is important.

Except he wouldn't and he isn't honest. I think you fail to see the world around you. Republicans control both houses. They do not like a lot of spending. Sanders plans involve a whole lot of spending. If he was president right now, he's probably be just as bad as Trump and those like you would be angry because he can't done what he promised. Even worse, Sanders inability to get anything done would allow republicans to continue controlling congress and Sanders would end up a 1 term president.

I actually agree with you here (except for the statement about him not seeing the world around him and Bernie being dishonest)

Bernie was less honest than Hillary. Dumb democrats fell for a right wing meme and now we got Trump which is exactly what they (you) wanted.

 

[dcbl]

Bernie:
The PolitiFact scorecard

• True 15 (12%)(15)
• Mostly True 46 (38%)(46)
• Half True 27 (22%)(27)
• Mostly False 19 (16%)(19)
• False 15 (12%)(15)

Hillary:

The PolitiFact scorecard

• True 72 (24%)(72)
• Mostly True 76 (26%)(76)
• Half True 69 (23%)(69)
• Mostly False 41 (14%)(41)
• False 31 (10%)(31)
• Pants on Fire 7 (2%)(7)

Trump:

The PolitiFact scorecard

• True 26 (5%)(26)
• Mostly True 64 (11%)(64)
• Half True 87 (16%)(87)
• Mostly False 123 (22%)(123)
• False 178 (32%)(178)
• Pants on Fire 81 (14%)(81)

A left wing source claims Trump is lyong

Shocker

The media lies about Trump consistently

You give me an example of a lie - find one and let's see if it can hold up to scrutiny

Meh...

Trump's Mostly True claim about Clinton's free trade history

Nice

I know it had to hurt you or at least make you throw up a little to post that

But nice

 

[Confounding]

He seems to embellish details oftenish. Though that's nothing unusual from the White House to be fair.

I'll give you that, but he keeps his campaign promises and does, or tries to do, just about everything he says he will do

You may not like him, but when he says he's gonna do something; you can plan on watching him do it

That's what I have always wanted from a politician

If you pay attention to my posts you'll notice that I have no problem defending Trump when the left is being ridiculous. I want Trump to have success with North Korea. I want him to fight for and win trade deals that benefit Americans. Partisan politics are ugly. I want America to succeed, and if Trump does something that helps us I will be the first in line to give him props. Also, yes, he seems to be actively fighting to fulfill his campaign promises. I doubt it's an easy thing.

 

[MisterBeale]

Bernie Sanders has been a Senator for decades. He is qualified. Hillary having held more positions in government doesn't make her a better choice, especially because of that whole lying thing. You're trying to make it sound like I supported some bum off the street. Get real.

Sorry to say this but you’ve just made a moronic statement. I know you hate Ms. Clinton but saying the SoS and all of the other myriad of experiences and posts she has held is not a leg up on a very nondescript senator from Vermont is intellectual dishonesty.

Bernie would have made a much better president, and honesty is important.

Except he wouldn't and he isn't honest. I think you fail to see the world around you. Republicans control both houses. They do not like a lot of spending. Sanders plans involve a whole lot of spending. If he was president right now, he's probably be just as bad as Trump and those like you would be angry because he can't done what he promised. Even worse, Sanders inability to get anything done would allow republicans to continue controlling congress and Sanders would end up a 1 term president.

I actually agree with you here (except for the statement about him not seeing the world around him and Bernie being dishonest)

Bernie was less honest than Hillary. Dumb democrats fell for a right wing meme and now we got Trump which is exactly what they (you) wanted.

Presidential Candidate Bernie Sanders: Sheepdogging for Hillary and the Democrats in 2016
Presidential Candidate Bernie Sanders: Sheepdogging for Hillary and the Democrats in 2016 | Black Agenda Report