Hitler, Fascism and the right wing

[francoHFW]

If me you mean, I apologize profusely.

 

[francoHFW]

Goodnight. Past my bedtime.

 

[Saigon]

An overview of Antonescu:

Ion Victor Antonescu (Romanian pronunciation: [iˈon antoˈnesku] ( listen); June 15, 1882 – June 1, 1946) was a Romanian soldier and authoritarian politician who was convicted of war crimes. The Prime Minister and Conducător during most of World War II, he presided over two successive wartime dictatorships. A Romanian Army career officer who made his name during the 1907 peasants' revolt and the World War I Romanian Campaign, the antisemitic Antonescu sympathized with the far right and fascist National Christian and Iron Guard groups for much of the interwar period. He was a military attaché to France and later Chief of the General Staff, briefly serving as Defense Minister in the National Christian cabinet of Octavian Goga. During the late 1930s, his political stance brought him into conflict with King Carol II and led to his detainment. Antonescu nevertheless rose to political prominence during the political crisis of 1940, and established the National Legionary State, an uneasy partnership with the Iron Guard's leader Horia Sima. After entering Romania into an alliance with Nazi Germany and the Axis and ensuring Adolf Hitler's confidence, he eliminated the Guard during the Legionary Rebellion of 1941. In addition to leadership of the executive, he assumed the offices of Foreign Affairs and Defense Minister. Soon after Romania joined the Axis in Operation Barbarossa, recovering Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina, Antonescu also became Marshal of Romania.

An atypical figure among Holocaust perpetrators, Antonescu enforced policies independently responsible for the deaths of as many as 400,000 people, most of them Bessarabian, Ukrainian and Romanian Jews, as well as Romanian Romani. The regime's complicity in the Holocaust combined pogroms and mass murders such as the Odessa massacre with ethnic cleansing, systematic deportations to occupied Transnistria and widespread criminal negligence. The system in place was nevertheless characterized by singular inconsistencies, prioritizing plunder over killing, showing leniency toward most Jews in the Old Kingdom, and ultimately refusing to adopt the Final Solution as applied throughout Nazi-occupied Europe.

Ion Antonescu - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Just because you allied with Hitler doesn't make you a national socialist. For example, Finland, a democracy under attack from the USSR, aligned with the Axis powers.

True, but what is an undisputed fact is that ALL of the regimes I listed were either Fascist or Para-Fascist.

There were also Fascist allies that arguably were not Fascist, but I have not referenced those on this thread.

The key point being that we can build up an accurate impression of the true nature of Fascism not only by studying Hitler, but by studying other Fascist regimes.

After all - do you think anyone is going to seriously suggest that Franco or even Pinochet were NOT right wing?

 

[bripat9643]

An overview of Antonescu:

Ion Victor Antonescu (Romanian pronunciation: [iˈon antoˈnesku] ( listen); June 15, 1882 – June 1, 1946) was a Romanian soldier and authoritarian politician who was convicted of war crimes. The Prime Minister and Conducător during most of World War II, he presided over two successive wartime dictatorships. A Romanian Army career officer who made his name during the 1907 peasants' revolt and the World War I Romanian Campaign, the antisemitic Antonescu sympathized with the far right and fascist National Christian and Iron Guard groups for much of the interwar period. He was a military attaché to France and later Chief of the General Staff, briefly serving as Defense Minister in the National Christian cabinet of Octavian Goga. During the late 1930s, his political stance brought him into conflict with King Carol II and led to his detainment. Antonescu nevertheless rose to political prominence during the political crisis of 1940, and established the National Legionary State, an uneasy partnership with the Iron Guard's leader Horia Sima. After entering Romania into an alliance with Nazi Germany and the Axis and ensuring Adolf Hitler's confidence, he eliminated the Guard during the Legionary Rebellion of 1941. In addition to leadership of the executive, he assumed the offices of Foreign Affairs and Defense Minister. Soon after Romania joined the Axis in Operation Barbarossa, recovering Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina, Antonescu also became Marshal of Romania.

An atypical figure among Holocaust perpetrators, Antonescu enforced policies independently responsible for the deaths of as many as 400,000 people, most of them Bessarabian, Ukrainian and Romanian Jews, as well as Romanian Romani. The regime's complicity in the Holocaust combined pogroms and mass murders such as the Odessa massacre with ethnic cleansing, systematic deportations to occupied Transnistria and widespread criminal negligence. The system in place was nevertheless characterized by singular inconsistencies, prioritizing plunder over killing, showing leniency toward most Jews in the Old Kingdom, and ultimately refusing to adopt the Final Solution as applied throughout Nazi-occupied Europe.

Ion Antonescu - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Just because you allied with Hitler doesn't make you a national socialist. For example, Finland, a democracy under attack from the USSR, aligned with the Axis powers.

True, but what is an undisputed fact is that ALL of the regimes I listed were either Fascist or Para-Fascist.

There were also Fascist allies that arguably were not Fascist, but I have not referenced those on this thread.

The key point being that we can build up an accurate impression of the true nature of Fascism not only by studying Hitler, but by studying other Fascist regimes.

After all - do you think anyone is going to seriously suggest that Franco or even Pinochet were NOT right wing?

Pinochet was not a fascist. Also, based on what you posted, Franco was also not a facist in his later years. That doesn't mean he wasn't a fascist in the 1940s.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

What a shallow snob you are. So is it any wonder you would equate, Hitler, fascism and the right wing as being one and the same.

Actually, I don't equate them...perhaps if you read the thread first?

Hitler is one example of fascism. Fascism is simply one variation of extremist right-wing politics. There are many others.

btw, What does it tell us about you, that you consider reading to be snobbery?

Fascism was established by one Benito Mussolini, a life long socialist. There is NOTHING 'Right-Wing' about it, except that in its advancement of socialist ideas, it initially allows for the respect of the traditions and heritage of whatever nation it happens to be infecting. This differing from international socialism, which otherwise rejects all national traditions and heritage.

There simply is no other aspects of national socialism which differs from socialism.

Absent National Socialism, OKA: Progressivism, AKA: "A Mixed Economic Model", which nearly every Leftist on this and every other message board on the web, which is even remotely relevant to US politics claims to prefer....

Now the less foolish Leftists will note that National Socialism is 'to the right' of International Socialism such as the respective Marxist Brands... But that such is 'to the right' as Stalinism, does not make it "Rightwing".

But your claims that it does, LOL! are Hysterical!

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

National Socialism emerged out of a decadent liberal and secular society lacking a conservative order with the collapse of the Monarchy and the rise of the Weimar Republic in Germany. Its a non-conservative reaction to the excesses of liberal democracy and capitalism.

National Socialism doesn't emerge in conservative societies with stability and continuity.

Well, it emerged in Romania, Paraguay, Spain and Hungary, didn't it?

And in some of those cases did so with the support of monarchy, did it not?

Not a single one of those countries was National Socialist.

All of the countries listed were fascist. By all means go and check.

Romania under Antonescu, Paraguay under Stroessner, Spain under Franco, and Hungary under the Iron Guard. You could also add in Ustache Croatia and one or two others.

One of the baffling things about this thread has been how many posters were unaware of the number of fascist governments there were during the 20th century, and how strong their links were with Hitler.

Ya didn't mention Iraq... with their Baath Socialists, who were, in fact, just like every other fascist cult: National Socialists.

Of course, you're claims that a given government is fascist, because they oppose socialists is also... absurd.

But how cool is it that here, at the end of 2014, you're on an international Message Board parroting Stalin?

Tell me, Stalin was chronically referring to Leon Trotsky as a "Fascist". This, because Trotsky opposed Stalin.
Now would you like to take a moment and explain to the board how Trotsky too, was a 'Right-winger'?

I know that I would love to hear it... .

 

[Iceweasel]

True, but what is an undisputed fact is that ALL of the regimes I listed were either Fascist or Para-Fascist.

There were also Fascist allies that arguably were not Fascist, but I have not referenced those on this thread.

The key point being that we can build up an accurate impression of the true nature of Fascism not only by studying Hitler, but by studying other Fascist regimes.

After all - do you think anyone is going to seriously suggest that Franco or even Pinochet were NOT right wing?

They aren't right wing by OUR standards. A point you can't or won't grasp. Only fools ignore context.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Was McCarthy part of the communist party? I mean McCarthy took a position that he was exposing communism and then made a number of people realize that he was an idiot and therefore the whole anti-communism thing might be a farce. Why did he make anti-communism program sound so foolish and why did the Republican party let him?

How specifically did "McCARTHY" 'make' the 'anti-communist program sound foolish'.


Again... I am asking you for SPECIFICS!

McCarthy's power was not so much in his accusations but in his suggestions that one is a communist. He suggested Ike leaned towards communism, the US army leaned toward communism, as did General Marshall, every body that did not fall into his line of patter was a commie.
That suggestive power gave McCarthy his power to intimidate. McCarthy had only to suggest that one might be a communist and for many that individual was without a doubt a communist. The evidence many accepted only had to be McCarthy's suggestion, and therein was McCarthy's power.

And ruin the lives of MANY innocents. Great job, Pubbies. J Edgar and McCarthy were a RW disgrace.

Name one "innocent" McCarthy "ruined"

Zero Mostel? Lionel Barrymore? Who?

Arthur Miller - McCarthyism American Masters PBS

Google that- over 300 artists blacklisted, basically all came back after the BS RW hysteria ended. A disgrace. But since you a-holes still use bs character assassination I guess that's just a RW thing, hater chump. And of course thousands of others, NONE proven to be actually harmful- only a few can even be argued to be guilty. Ignorant brainwashed a-holes forever.

You keep getting scammed and duped, you should not leave the house with your wallet.

Joe McCarthy had NOTHING to do with the House UnAmerican Activities Committee

NOTHING

He was a US Senator

Watch and learn

 

[dcraelin]

I think Frigid you may be thinking of Socialism, that was supposed to go through stages....Communism was twisted early into being the idea that an elite group should bypass Democracy to accelerate the transition to Socialism/ or more ideal Communism. This also is similar to some Conservative thought that Democracy is a bad thing.
Thus: Conservatism = Communism

Does your therapist know you're spouting off like this? They can always put you back in your straight jacket you know. Ring for Nurse McCracken and tell her you want your tin foil hat on account of the Martians are making you crazy again.

View attachment 34803

Governmental parties can simply be broke down into 2 groups. Those that believe in Democrcy, and those tht don't.
Many ameican conservatives, and now even libertarians, dont believe in democracy. that brings them close to communists and to fascists.

thus communism=conservatism ::

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

I think Frigid you may be thinking of Socialism, that was supposed to go through stages....Communism was twisted early into being the idea that an elite group should bypass Democracy to accelerate the transition to Socialism/ or more ideal Communism. This also is similar to some Conservative thought that Democracy is a bad thing.
Thus: Conservatism = Communism

Does your therapist know you're spouting off like this? They can always put you back in your straight jacket you know. Ring for Nurse McCracken and tell her you want your tin foil hat on account of the Martians are making you crazy again.

View attachment 34803

Gavoernmentatl parties can simply be broke down into 2 groups. Those that believe in Democrcy, and those tht don't.
Many ameican conservatives, and now even libertarians, dont believe in democracy. that brings them close to communists and to fascists.

thus communism=conservatism=libertarianism

LOL! "Believe in Democracy"?

Democracy only works where the electorate is objectively virtuous. Therefore, where socialism is at work, democracy will not.

 

[thanatos144]

Can you name one innocent person accused by McCarthy?

Like I said, he vastly understated the extent to which Communists infiltrated the US government

Start here: Victims of McCarthyism

Owen Lattimore was a Communist Spy. Any decent country would have sat him next to the Rosenbergs on Death Row

If you find the United States so indecent why don't you go to hell? Isn't that where others like you who bear false witness against others end up? I doubt any place else would welcome a bum like you.

Except records showed macarthy was right about communist spies higj in the administration. To bad it took fifty years to prove him right because idiots like you seem to not know the truth

Tapatalk

higj?

"During a speech in Wheeling, WV, Senator Joseph McCarthy (Republican-Wisconsin) claims that he has a list with the names of over 200 members of the Department of State that are "known communists." The speech vaulted McCarthy to national prominence and sparked a nationwide hysteria about subversives in the American government."

Link: McCarthy says communists are in State Department mdash History.com This Day in History mdash 2 9 1950

Name all 200, along with the evidence of the truth of his statement! Do it now or STFU and acknowledge you're not only a liar but also a fool.

Yes and guess what????? They were. Maybe you need to look up the truth. I mean several books were written on it

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Lattimore was cleared, except in bs Pub world. Thanks for more bs character assassinatin, brainwashed functional shyttehead.

Owen Lattimore (July 29, 1900 – May 31, 1989) was an American author, educator, and influential scholar of China andCentral Asia, especially Mongolia. Although he did not have an advanced academic degree, in the 1930s, he was editor ofPacific Affairs, a journal published by the Institute of Pacific Relations, and then taught at Johns Hopkins University inBaltimore, Maryland, from 1938 to 1963. During World War II, he was an advisor to Chiang Kai-shek and the American government and contributed extensively to the public debate.

From 1963 to 1970, Lattimore was the first Professor of Chinese Studies at the University of Leeds in England, where he taught Chinese History, richly flavoured with personal reminiscences. He died in 1989 in Providence, Rhode Island, having resided in his later years in Pawtucket.[1]

In the early post-war period of McCarthyism and the Red Scare, American wartime China Hands were accused of being agents of the Soviet Union or under the influence of Marxism. In 1950, Senator Joseph McCarthy accused Lattimore in particular of being "the top Russian espionage agent in the United States."[1]

The accusations led to years of Congressional hearings that did not substantiate the charge that Lattimore had been a spy (and wartime intercepted Venona cables did not refer to him as one).

wiki

Lattimore was a Communist Spy, ProgDuppe

 

[kaz]

Many ameican conservatives, and now even libertarians, dont believe in democracy

Have you noticed when you pull things out of your ass, they generally stink?

I'd like to see you back this up.

 

[toxicmedia]

Context, moron, context! You've proven to be an uneducated partisan parrot, but can you learn? I doubt it, but others may I'll repeat an important lesson: Don't watch the lips of pol, watch their feet. Now, I know you don't understand, so I'll type slow, just for you.

Hitler on 5/1/29 was not in power but wanted it. Thus, he engaged in the time honored practice of demagoguery, tell the audience what they want to hear.

ROFLMNAO!

Once again: A RightWinger is said to NEED to pretend to be a Leftist, in order to gain power.

When in truth, a right-winger would have presented himself as an adherent of the Laws of Nature, championed those immutable laws and rose to power on the merits of the truth.

Ya see scamp, Right-wingers understand that truth wins, as nature requires that it must.

In order to gain leadership of the National Socialists, yes.

LOL... National Socialists were Leftists scamp.

Hey! Lemme ask ya this: Stalin claimed that Leon Trotsky was a fascist. Since you agree with Stalin that National Socialists were rightwingers, do you also agree with Stalin that Trotsky was a rightwinger?

You're confusing terms. National Socialists hated liberals almost as much as Jews.

Lot's of people resist the following grouping of terms, but it's what I see.

Groups more likely have similarities to the platforms of modern day American liberals include:

Communists
Socialists
Leftists
Democrats

On the modern day American conservative side I see:

Fascists
Nationalists
Theocracies
Republicans

I know Glenn Beck and Jonah Goldberg have worked to relieve the GOP from associations with those groupings, by saddling Democratic candidates and incumbents with them today.

I understand their arguments, but reject them because I feel it's simple electioneering.

ROFLMNAO! That is ADORABLE!
Let me help ya through some of the finer points here...

These:

Communists
Socialists: of both International and National Varieties...
Leftists
Democrats

Are all Leftists... .

I hope this helps.

It might help if it weren't a bunch of pedestrian revisionist Glenn Beck style drivel.

 

[dcraelin]

these "improvements" are bull shit

progress in computers is bull shit

cant even get the dmn thing to reply right

but Keys youve got it wrong, 100% turned around. Democracy needs to come first. it is the most important thing.

 

[toxicmedia]

"Liberalism is a disease of the mind that weakens and corrupts human beings." Adolf Hitler, 1939

"Our struggle is mired in the complacent liberalism typical of western useful idiots." Vladimir Lenin 1918

Anything else?

Do you realize you've offered a quote by Socialists that condemns liberals, to counter a quote I've offered that shows condemnation of liberals by Fascists?

I thought revisionists like you were convinced that American liberals were Fascists and Socialists.

 

[toxicmedia]

National Socialism emerged out of a decadent liberal and secular society lacking a conservative order with the collapse of the Monarchy and the rise of the Weimar Republic in Germany. Its a non-conservative reaction to the excesses of liberal democracy and capitalism.

National Socialism doesn't emerge in conservative societies with stability and continuity.

I want to hear more about this decadent post WWI liberalism in Germany.

First I've heard of it.

 

[thanatos144]

Many ameican conservatives, and now even libertarians, dont believe in democracy

Have you noticed when you pull things out of your ass, they generally stink?

I'd like to see you back this up.

He is kind of right...I dont believe in democracy per say . I believe the country needs to revert back to being a constitutional republic by repealing the 16th and 17th amendments that made us into more of democracy and less a republic.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

"Liberalism is a disease of the mind that weakens and corrupts human beings." Adolf Hitler, 1939

"Our struggle is mired in the complacent liberalism typical of western useful idiots." Vladimir Lenin 1918

Anything else?

Do you realize you've offered a quote by Socialists that condemns liberals, to counter a quote I've offered that shows condemnation of liberals by Fascists?

I thought revisionists like you were convinced that American liberals were Fascists and Socialists.

(Fascists, are socialists.)

But, yeah... I realize that. Ya see scamp, using your ad hoc reasoning: "Fascist oppose Liberals, therefore they can't be socialists"... Where the supreme socialist is found opposing liberals, that would mean that socialists can't be socialists.

And at the end of the day, that's basically where the Left's argument always ends up: 'There has never been an true implementation of Socialism, all socialist experiments to date have all been corrupted by the right... '

 

[dcraelin]

Many ameican conservatives, and now even libertarians, dont believe in democracy

Have you noticed when you pull things out of your ass, they generally stink?

I'd like to see you back this up.

ever heard conservatives bleat out the saying "we're a republic not a democracy" now sometimes tacked on with "democracy = mob rule".....there is my evidence