Hitler, Fascism and the right wing

Right wing favors individual liberty, personal freedom and limited government.

Labeling Nazis as "Right-Wingers" is one of the Progressive Big Lies that would make Herr Goebbels proud

Holy shit you people are stupid, you really don't know any history at all....do you.

Tell us more about Hitler's support for limited government and individual liberty!

it's a teachable moment

Well now there's an interesting point of history I hadn't heard about.....do tell.

But... you said Fascism was right wing... You said that 'every scholar on earth said that 'fascism is right-wing' and given that right-wing is defined as: the advocacy for limited government and individual liberty.

Therefore... if Hitler was 'right-wing' it follows that Histler would be a proponent of those things which define the right-wing.

Only an idiot mixes and matches history to fit contemporary political newspeak.

So you're saying that you're an idiot... who can't connect the traits of the 'right-wing' with that which you deceitfully assign TO the 'right-wing'.

Ok... I think I can get-wit-dat.
 
Right wing = individual liberty, personal freedom and limited government.

Tell us how Progressive Found Father Hitler fits that definition

all ears here

Um... Point of order!

Benito Mussolini was the "Founding Father of Fascism" Histler was just a kling-on, who managed to get the most press... taking the concept out to its inevitable conclusion.
 
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It's really funny to watch you people struggle to deny that Fascists and Nazis were right wing, ultra conservative, reactionary movements.

Right wing favors individual liberty, personal freedom and limited government.

Labeling Nazis as "Right-Wingers" is one of the Progressive Big Lies that would make Herr Goebbels proud

Holy shit you people are stupid, you really don't know any history at all....do you.

Tell us more about Hitler's support for limited government and individual liberty!

it's a teachable moment

Well now there's an interesting point of history I hadn't heard about.....do tell.

Right wing = individual liberty, personal freedom and limited government.

Tell us how Progressive Found Father Hitler fits that definition

all ears here

You dummies really don't understand, you don't get to make up your own definitions.
Right wing - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
 
Right wing favors individual liberty, personal freedom and limited government.

Labeling Nazis as "Right-Wingers" is one of the Progressive Big Lies that would make Herr Goebbels proud

Holy shit you people are stupid, you really don't know any history at all....do you.

Tell us more about Hitler's support for limited government and individual liberty!

it's a teachable moment

Well now there's an interesting point of history I hadn't heard about.....do tell.

Right wing = individual liberty, personal freedom and limited government.

Tell us how Progressive Found Father Hitler fits that definition

all ears here

You dummies really don't understand, you don't get to make up your own definitions.
Right wing - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

HOLD ON! I want to predict that "Right-wing" equals: "DICTATOR!" with some painfully twisted use of the term "Reactionary", which was the 18th century equivalent of 'Homophobe'.

Ok... let's take a look at it.

SPOILER ALERT!
"the part of a political group that consists of people who support conservative or traditional ideas and policies : the part of a political group that belongs to or supports the Right"

Hey dumbass: you should have gone with Dictionary.com. A wholly ownded subsidiary of the Ideological Left:

"the conservative or reactionary element in a political party or other organization."

It would have provided more value, in terms of my entertainment.

Sadly, Webster's just added proof that you're an imbecile, in NO WAY sustaining your stated 'feelings'... .
 
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fas·cism
ˈfaSHˌizəm/
noun
  1. an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
    synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy;More
    • (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

so·cial·ism
ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun
  1. a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
    synonyms: leftism, welfarism; More
    • policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.
      synonyms: leftism, welfarism; More
    • (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism


fas·cism:
  1. an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
so·cial·ism:
  1. a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Isn't it wild how the definition of 'fascism' the 'scholar' specifically labeled the concept: "right-wing".

YET in the definition of "socialism", the 'scholar' did NOT specifically label it 'Left-wing'?

Now... LOL! I wonder why they would do that?

Does it follow that the traits of fascism are 'right-wing', because they're distinct from 'left-wing' traits?

Nope... because the reference source doesn't provide any guidance on leftwing traits.

It merely states that the traits: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy are right-wing.

But if THAT were true, then socialism would be fascism... EXCEPT for one teeny tiny little notation wherein the 'scholar' sought to label 'fascism' as 'right-wing', on NO OTHER DISCERNIBLE BASIS THAN THEY NEEDED TO DO SO AS A MEANS OF ESTABLISHING SUCH BY SCHOLARLY EDICT!

LOL!

So as our in-house comrades have so often pointed out, the ONLY REASON that ANYONE would EVER conclude that fascism is 'right-wing' is that SCHOLARS "SAY" IT IS!

And no matter where ya go, no matter what text book you search, or what speech you listen to, THEIR STATEMENT THAT FASCISM IS 'RIGHT-WING' IS BASED UPON ABSOLUTELY NOTHING... BEYOND THEIR SUBJECTIVE NEED FOR IT TO BE: "RIGHT-WING."

Is there some means to 'get' to "the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole." that is NOT authoritarian, totalitarian and which would not be operated by a dictatorship, despot and how could such NOT BE AUTOCRATIC?
I wonder if there's a source that would be authoritative enough for you to accept (or do you consider yourself the ultimate arbiter of authority?) Most people would accept that the people at Merriam Webster know their stuff. Here's something from them:

"Philosophy of government that stresses the primacy and glory of the state, unquestioning obedience to its leader, subordination of the individual will to the state's authority, and harsh suppression of dissent. Martial virtues are celebrated, while liberal and democratic values are disparaged. Fascism arose during the 1920s and '30s partly out of fear of the rising power of the working classes; it differed from contemporary communism (as practiced underJoseph Stalin) by its protection of business and landowning elites and its preservation of class systems. The leaders of the fascist governments of Italy (1922–43), Germany (1933–45), and Spain (1939–75)—Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, and Francisco Franco—were portrayed to their publics as embodiments of the strength and resolve necessary to rescue their nations from political and economic chaos. Japanese fascists (1936–45) fostered belief in the uniqueness of the Japanese spirit and taught subordination to the state and personal sacrifice. See alsototalitarianism; neofascism."
 
fas·cism:
  1. an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
so·cial·ism:
  1. a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Isn't it wild how the definition of 'fascism' the 'scholar' specifically labeled the concept: "right-wing".

YET in the definition of "socialism", the 'scholar' did NOT specifically label it 'Left-wing'?

Now... LOL! I wonder why they would do that?

Does it follow that the traits of fascism are 'right-wing', because they're distinct from 'left-wing' traits?

Nope... because the reference source doesn't provide any guidance on leftwing traits.

It merely states that the traits: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy are right-wing.

But if THAT were true, then socialism would be fascism... EXCEPT for one teeny tiny little notation wherein the 'scholar' sought to label 'fascism' as 'right-wing', on NO OTHER DISCERNIBLE BASIS THAN THEY NEEDED TO DO SO AS A MEANS OF ESTABLISHING SUCH BY SCHOLARLY EDICT!

LOL!

So as our in-house comrades have so often pointed out, the ONLY REASON that ANYONE would EVER conclude that fascism is 'right-wing' is that SCHOLARS "SAY" IT IS!

And no matter where ya go, no matter what text book you search, or what speech you listen to, THEIR STATEMENT THAT FASCISM IS 'RIGHT-WING' IS BASED UPON ABSOLUTELY NOTHING... BEYOND THEIR SUBJECTIVE NEED FOR IT TO BE: "RIGHT-WING."

Is there some means to 'get' to "the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole." that is NOT authoritarian, totalitarian and which would not be operated by a dictatorship, despot and how could such NOT BE AUTOCRATIC?


Exactly......

The funniest thing is trying to read the definitions they have to tangle themselves up in to try to define fascism as something other than just plain old socialism....it gets pretty funny....take the definition of socialism and apply it to Italy, Germany....or even Japan of the 40s for that matter.....and it fits like a glove...

Fascism is right wing....just because it is....nah nah nah, nah nah nah.....
 
"Philosophy of government that stresses the primacy and glory of the state, unquestioning obedience to its leader, subordination of the individual will to the state's authority, and harsh suppression of dissent. Martial virtues are celebrated, while liberal and democratic values are disparaged. Fascism arose during the 1920s and '30s partly out of fear of the rising power of the working classes; it differed from contemporary communism (as practiced underJoseph Stalin) by its protection of business and landowning elites and its preservation of class systems. The leaders of the fascist governments of Italy (1922–43), Germany (1933–45), and Spain (1939–75)—Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, and Francisco Franco—were portrayed to their publics as embodiments of the strength and resolve necessary to rescue their nations from political and economic chaos. Japanese fascists (1936–45) fostered belief in the uniqueness of the Japanese spirit and taught subordination to the state and personal sacrifice. See alsototalitarianism; neofascism."

For those enamored with the left wingers who are trying to disguise the socialism to hide from the eventual atrocities committed by the left wing socialist paradises....

The above translated:


The socialism of Germany, Italy, and Japan reflected cultural differences as well as the relative strength of the socialist leadership...mussolini being the weakest....

Socialism is the government controlling the means of production....in each of the above countries...the government controlled the means of production....they were socialists...in different costumes and hobbies...but socialists all the same....
 
Holy shit you people are stupid, you really don't know any history at all....do you.

Tell us more about Hitler's support for limited government and individual liberty!

it's a teachable moment

Well now there's an interesting point of history I hadn't heard about.....do tell.

Right wing = individual liberty, personal freedom and limited government.

Tell us how Progressive Found Father Hitler fits that definition

all ears here

You dummies really don't understand, you don't get to make up your own definitions.
Right wing - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

HOLD ON! I want to predict that "Right-wing" equals: "DICTATOR!" with some painfully twisted use fo the term "Reactionary", which was the 18th century equivalent of 'Homophobe'.

Ok... let's take a look at it.

You are evidently a complete waste of time, you're too stupid, you can't be taught, you can't learn. A second candidate for my ignore list emerges.
 
Tell us more about Hitler's support for limited government and individual liberty!

it's a teachable moment

Well now there's an interesting point of history I hadn't heard about.....do tell.

Right wing = individual liberty, personal freedom and limited government.

Tell us how Progressive Found Father Hitler fits that definition

all ears here

You dummies really don't understand, you don't get to make up your own definitions.
Right wing - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

HOLD ON! I want to predict that "Right-wing" equals: "DICTATOR!" with some painfully twisted use fo the term "Reactionary", which was the 18th century equivalent of 'Homophobe'.

Ok... let's take a look at it.

You are evidently a complete waste of time, you're too stupid, you can't be taught, you can't learn. A second candidate for my ignore list emerges.

Your concession is AGAIN duly noted and summarily accepted.
 
And some more from Hayek on the socialism of the nazis...

Nazism is Socialism
The persecution of the Marxists, and of democrats in general, tends to obscure the fundamental fact that National "Socialism" is a genuine socialist movement, whose leading ideas are the final fruit of the anti-liberal tendencies which have been steadily gaining ground in Germany since the later part of the Bismarckian era, and which led the majority of the German intelligentsia first to "socialism of the chair" and later to Marxism in its social-democratic or communist form.

One of the main reasons why the socialist character of National Socialism has been quite generally unrecognized, is, no doubt, its alliance with the nationalist groups which represent the great industries and the great landowners. But this merely proves that these groups too, as they have since learnt to their bitter disappointment, have, at least partly, been mistaken as to the nature of the movement. But only partly because, and this is the most characteristic feature of modern Germany, many capitalists are themselves strongly influenced by socialistic ideas, and have not sufficient belief in capitalism to defend
it with a clear conscience.
 
I wonder if there's a source that would be authoritative enough for you to accept (or do you consider yourself the ultimate arbiter of authority?)

'authoritative enough'?

How about something which SHOWS A DISTINCTION BETWEEN SOCIALISM and FASCISM.

CLUE: JUST CALLING FASCISM "RIGHT WING" does NOT a distinction make.


Most people would accept that the people at Merriam Webster know their stuff. Here's something from them:

"Philosophy of government that stresses the primacy and glory of the state, unquestioning obedience to its leader, subordination of the individual will to the state's authority, and harsh suppression of dissent. Martial virtues are celebrated, while liberal and democratic values are disparaged. Fascism arose during the 1920s and '30s partly out of fear of the rising power of the working classes; it differed from contemporary communism (as practiced underJoseph Stalin) by its protection of business and landowning elites and its preservation of class systems. The leaders of the fascist governments of Italy (1922–43), Germany (1933–45), and Spain (1939–75)—Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, and Francisco Franco—were portrayed to their publics as embodiments of the strength and resolve necessary to rescue their nations from political and economic chaos. Japanese fascists (1936–45) fostered belief in the uniqueness of the Japanese spirit and taught subordination to the state and personal sacrifice. See alsototalitarianism; neofascism."


DISTINCTION: a difference or contrast between similar things... . That the NATIONAL SOCIALISTS were NATIONALIST is not in dispute. And being NATIONALISTS does not preclude them from being socialists. It precludes them ONLY from being INTERNATIONAL SOCIALISTS.

The dispute comes with the adherence to "FEELINGS" common to SOCIALISM ... by the NATIONAL SOCIALIST.

Granted, in terms of preference, an American would naturally prefer a National Socialist over an International Socialist, but not by any degree that worthy of note.

I'd give points for better uniforms; polished leather is pretty dam' cool.
 
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JoeNormal said:
fas·cism
ˈfaSHˌizəm/
noun
  1. an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
    synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy;More
    • (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
Do you notice that all those words apply to Russia and China? Again, the only difference in this definition is the unsubstantiated claim it's "right wing."

If you go back to what the Nazis did, it was central economic planning. Again, exactly like China and Russia. Are any bulbs going off yet?

Authoritarian, would you not expect an authoritarian system of rule not to include central planning and limited personal choice?

What is right wing? Traditionally, the RW supported the Monarchy, the Clergy, the Aristocracy and the status quo; the left wing, supported a representative government elected by the people, and the common people.

Today, the Republican Party rejects progressive politics, support traditional values and the status quo. Aristocrats in the US have always been know as the very wealthy, and today are noted as the 1%ers. Republican policies support the 1% and believe that when the 1% does well, the country as a whole does well.

Today the Democratic Party seeks to level the playing field, thus it supports a progressive income tax, social security, Supplemental Security Income, Medicare and the PPACA. It represents the civil rights and economic rights of the common people and rejects the notion that when the 1% does well their largess will trickle down to the hoi polloi.

Today the fringe on the right, reject the Democratic Party's efforts to level the playing field, claiming that the poor and needy are so do to character flaws. They support civil rights for everyone who looks like them and deny the same to people of color, non Christians and anyone who disagrees with them. They abhor college/university professors, liberal arts graduates, teachers, police officers, in fact all employees of the government, the Federal Government and any law which restricts their liberty.
 
JoeNormal said:
fas·cism
ˈfaSHˌizəm/
noun
  1. an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
    synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy;More
    • (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
Do you notice that all those words apply to Russia and China? Again, the only difference in this definition is the unsubstantiated claim it's "right wing."

If you go back to what the Nazis did, it was central economic planning. Again, exactly like China and Russia. Are any bulbs going off yet?

So you've uncovered the diabolical connection, a government that plans an economy......like every other government on earth. Imagine that, everyone is secretly communist and didn't know it.

ROFLMNAO!

Yeah... 'fiscal planning always must equate to central planning and when 'every country on earth centrally plans for their respective economies through their central government', this naturally refutes the idea that such is socialism, because 'every nation on earth is NOT socialist!'

Folks you cannot make that convoluted crap up.

It's really funny to watch you people struggle to deny that Fascists and Nazis were right wing, ultra conservative, reactionary movements.

It was an easy definition, it just can't overcome your political programming. I'll dumb it down for you, probably won't be enough since you're exceptionally dumb, but what is a material difference between "Fascist" Germany and "Communist" Russia?
 
A few excepts:

HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST

HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST

John J. Ray (M.A.; Ph.D.)

EPITOME:
Hitler was a fairly mainstream Leftist of his day. It must be remembered that he gained power by way of a democratic election, not by way of a revolution or a military coup. If any of that seems wrong to you, you need to keep reading.

But the most spectacular aspect of Nazism was surely its antisemitism. And that had a grounding in Marx himself. The following passage is from Marx but it could just as well have been from Hitler:

"Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew -- not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew. Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew. What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money. Very well then! Emancipation from huckstering and money, consequently from practical, real Jewry, would be the self-emancipation of our time....

We recognize in Jewry, therefore, a general present-time-oriented anti-social element, an element which through historical development -- to which in this harmful respect the Jews have zealously contributed -- has been brought to its present high level, at which it must necessarily dissolve itself. In the final analysis, the emancipation of the Jews is the emancipation of mankind from Jewry".

Another point:
"Everything must be different!" or "Alles muss anders sein!" was a slogan of the Nazi Party. It is also the heart's desire of every Leftist since Karl Marx. Nazism was a deeply revolutionary creed, a fact that is always denied by the Left; but it's true. Hitler and his criminal gang hated the rich, the capitalists, the Jews, the Christian Churches, and "the System".

Brown Bolsheviks

It is very easy to miss complexities in the the politics of the past and thus draw wrong conclusions about them. To understand the politics of the past we need to set aside for a time our own way of looking at things and try to see how the people involved at the time saw it all. Doing so is an almost essential step if we wish to understand the similarities and differences between Nazism and Marxism/Leninism.

The following excerpt from James P. O'Donnell's THE BUNKER (1978, Boston, Houghton Mifflin, pp. 261-262) is instructive. O'Donnell is quoting Artur Axmann, the Nazi youth leader, recalling a conversation with Goebbels in the Hitler bunker on Tuesday, May 1, 1945, the same day Goebbels and his wife would kill themselves after she killed their children. "Goebbels stood up to greet me. He soon launched into lively memories of our old street-fighting days in Berlin-Wedding, from nineteen twenty-eight to thirty-three. He recalled how we had clobbered the Berlin Communists and the Socialists into submission, to the tune of the "Horst Wessel" marching song, on their old home ground.

He said one of the great accomplishments of the Hitler regime had been to win the German workers over almost totally to the national cause. We had made patriots of the workers, he said, as the Kaiser had dismally failed to do. This, he kept repeating, had been one of the real triumphs of the movement. We Nazis were a non-Marxist yet revolutionary party, anticapitalist, antibourgeois, antireactionary....

Starch-collared men like Chancellor Heinrich Bruening had called us the "Brown Bolsheviks," and their bourgeois instincts were not wrong. It seems inconceivable to modern minds that just a few differences between two similar ideologies -- Marxism and Nazism -- could have been sufficient cause for great enmity between those two ideologies. But the differences concerned were important to the people involved at the time. Marxism was class-based and Nazism was nationally based but otherwise they were very similar. That's what people said and thought at the time and that explains what they did and how they did it.

A modern Leftist

Let us look at what the Left and Right in politics consist of at present. Consider this description by Edward Feser of someone who would have been a pretty good Presidential candidate for the modern-day U.S. Democratic party: He had been something of a bohemian in his youth, and always regarded young people and their idealism as the key to progress and the overcoming of outmoded prejudices. And he was widely admired by the young people of his country, many of whom belonged to organizations devoted to practicing and propagating his teachings. He had a lifelong passion for music, art, and architecture, and was even something of a painter. He rejected what he regarded as petty bourgeois moral hang-ups, and he and his girlfriend "lived together" for years. He counted a number of homosexuals as friends and collaborators, and took the view that a man's personal morals were none of his business; some scholars of his life believe that he himself may have been homosexual or bisexual. He was ahead of his time where a number of contemporary progressive causes are concerned: he disliked smoking, regarding it as a serious danger to public health, and took steps to combat it; he was a vegetarian and animal lover; he enacted tough gun control laws; and he advocated euthanasia for the incurably ill.

He championed the rights of workers, regarded capitalist society as brutal and unjust, and sought a third way between communism and the free market. In this regard, he and his associates greatly admired the strong steps taken by President Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal to take large-scale economic decision-making out of private hands and put it into those of government planning agencies. His aim was to institute a brand of socialism that avoided the inefficiencies that plagued the Soviet variety, and many former communists found his program highly congenial.

He deplored the selfish individualism he took to be endemic to modern Western society, and wanted to replace it with an ethic of self-sacrifice: "As Christ proclaimed 'love one another'," he said, "so our call -- 'people's community,' 'public need before private greed,' 'communally-minded social consciousness' -- rings out.! This call will echo throughout the world!"
 
JoeNormal said:
fas·cism
ˈfaSHˌizəm/
noun
  1. an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
    synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy;More
    • (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
Do you notice that all those words apply to Russia and China? Again, the only difference in this definition is the unsubstantiated claim it's "right wing."

If you go back to what the Nazis did, it was central economic planning. Again, exactly like China and Russia. Are any bulbs going off yet?

So you've uncovered the diabolical connection, a government that plans an economy......like every other government on earth. Imagine that, everyone is secretly communist and didn't know it.

Yes, Democrats are Marxists, that isn't a new observation.

Not new....just incredibly stupid.

And that's all you have, that's just stupid. What you can't do one after another is actually show with actual policies how you are not Marxist. You advocate the planks of the Communist Manifesto and you justify them with the same anti-capitalist, anti-wealth rhetoric. Tweedledee, meet Tweedledum.
 
Do you notice that all those words apply to Russia and China? Again, the only difference in this definition is the unsubstantiated claim it's "right wing."

If you go back to what the Nazis did, it was central economic planning. Again, exactly like China and Russia. Are any bulbs going off yet?

So you've uncovered the diabolical connection, a government that plans an economy......like every other government on earth. Imagine that, everyone is secretly communist and didn't know it.

ROFLMNAO!

Yeah... 'fiscal planning always must equate to central planning and when 'every country on earth centrally plans for their respective economies through their central government', this naturally refutes the idea that such is socialism, because 'every nation on earth is NOT socialist!'

Folks you cannot make that convoluted crap up.

It's really funny to watch you people struggle to deny that Fascists and Nazis were right wing, ultra conservative, reactionary movements.

Right wing favors individual liberty, personal freedom and limited government.

Labeling Nazis as "Right-Wingers" is one of the Progressive Big Lies that would make Herr Goebbels proud

Holy shit you people are stupid, you really don't know any history at all....do you.

Sweeping statement? Check. Void of content? Check. Your normal post.
 

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