Hitler, Fascism and the right wing

[Contumacious]

One thing von Kuehnelt made clear, Nazism and Fascism rose from democracies.

Correct.

Nazism (/ˈnɑːtsɪz(ə)m/; alternatively spelled Naziism),[1] or National Socialism in full (German: Nationalsozialismus) . However , Hitler understood that socialism sucks ---that central planning is useless so he decided that fascism was better.


Fascism allows the government to use (force) private entrepreneurs into assisting the bureaucracy in perpetrating its dastardly deeds.

 

[Discombobulated]

One thing von Kuehnelt made clear, Nazism and Fascism rose from democracies.

Correct.

Nazism (/ˈnɑːtsɪz(ə)m/; alternatively spelled Naziism),[1] or National Socialism in full (German: Nationalsozialismus) . However , Hitler understood that socialism sucks ---that central planning is useless so he decided that fascism was better.


Fascism allows the government to use (force) private entrepreneurs into assisting the bureaucracy in perpetrating its dastardly deeds.

And there's one fundamental difference between left wing totalitarians and right wing totalitarians. Private entrepreneurs make lots of money with right wing totalitarians.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Sounds like you put up a website and then this counts as proof and you won't listen to anything else.

All I've seen as a response is that "actual" historians don't agree, go read a book, you never read a book, I'm unintelligent, I haven't posted anything of substance and now I made the web sites.

I mean put up a website as in, put up the address.

Like I wrote a week back or so. Labels are there to communicate. When left and right were first conceived, far left and far right didn't exist. They grew 150 years later and people put labels on them. The reality isn't one where you have a straight line from the center to the right and left getting further away, but instead you have lines going off in all directions.

Extremism is one angle. What is extremism?

Definition of ldquo extremist rdquo Collins English Dictionary

Extremist

"a person who favours or resorts to immoderate, uncompromising, or fanatical methods or behaviour, esp in being politically radical"

Here's one definition of extremist which seems to be more or less the sort of thing we're talking about.

Communist countries, fascist countries etc, all extremist, all uncompromising, all fanatical and radical. All of them imposed their will upon the people, didn't allow free and fair elections, this is what we have with extremism.

The extreme was born out of revolution. Replacing the old guard, generally monarchs with a hierarchical system in place that had existed for centuries or more. Communism got rid of the Tsar, Fascism in Italy imposed itself on top of the Italian monarch, Nazism in Germany replaced the system which had replaced the monarch.

The change was always going to work for the poorer people to a certain extent. It generally was the poorer people who stood up and led these countries. Stalin was born to a cobbler and his wife. Hitler to a low down civil servant stuck on the edge of the Austro-Hungarian empire and farmer. Mussolini to a blacksmith.

A new order was in place. An order that had only really been destroyed in the US and France by this time.

If Hitler was a socialist because he gave working rights to Germans, then the US has always been Socialist because workers gained rights with the declaration of rights in 1776 and the Bill of Rights in 1789. Both in Germany and the US people were excluded from this. Blacks and Native Americans compared to Jews and anyone else who didn't fit. WASPs in Germany and WASPs in the US were on top and controlled things. The US stayed religious, Nazism became the religion.

So are you telling me the US is a Socialist State then?

 

[frigidweirdo]

It's been demonstrated that the NAZIs were a socialist regime.

Sounds like you put up a website and then this counts as proof and you won't listen to anything else.

Try reading "Socialism" by Ludwig von Mises or "The Road to Serfdom" by Frederic Hayek.

Why?

 

[frigidweirdo]

So to summarize this thread: Fascist and Nazis have never been characterized as anything but right wing reactionaries by actual scholars of history. All the dummies who attempted to make arguments to the contrary have failed completely to substantiate any part of their alleged arguments.
Begs the question: How stupid do you have to be to argue points of history without being able to cite any historians who concur with your view?

You're a complete moron, that much has been made clear. Your bias relies on the assertion that no "actual" historians call national socialism a form of socialism. That's bullshit. Like all liberals, you place a qualifier so only you can decide who the legitimate sources are while ignoring what right wing means in that context.

This thread demonstrates how truly dishonest liberals are. Any objective individual can read the thread and see who the liars are here.

Historians aren't economists, so how are the qualified to determine whether Nazi Germany was socialist or not? According to their own logic, that shoots down the claims of the historians.

So because they're historians they don't understand economics?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Tell us the people in the photos I have posted are left wingers.

Please.

We need your seven pounds of brain damage unequivocally documented.

You're too much of an idiot to waste time on.

Coward. You can't do it, because you know they are far right wingers. Your idiocy has been cornered and so you run.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UYlBMh5hqX0/TMhGfJ2HHAI/AAAAAAAAAhg/uD2tkeo0ms0/s1600/110296.jpg

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/rally08_mp_web_t607.jpeg

You're such a fucking lying scumbag.

They're only "Right Wingers" because that how Progressives classify them

Now, now CrusaderFrank, don't lose your cool (not that you've ever had one). You should feel good, there are at least three members of the echo chamber even dumber than you on this thread (and all keep posting the same silly bull shit). Since Progressives classify the Germany under Hitler as Right Wing, tell us how you and the other Reactionaries Classify them?

Are you claiming that Left WIng Fascism is better?

If not, what is the purpose of the diatribe?

Tyranny by the majority is tyranny nevertheless.

John Adams

.

Look I can post pictures too. Do you deny these brain dead lemmings are from the far left?

Look I can post pictures too. Do you deny these brain dead lemmings are from the far left?

Look I can post pictures too. Do you deny these brain dead lemmings are from the far left?

Looks like a very diverse group to me! Have you seen the photo of the new chairmen of the various committees of Congress? All White Men. They may not be brain dead, but lemmings they sure are.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Tell us the people in the photos I have posted are left wingers.

Please.

We need your seven pounds of brain damage unequivocally documented.

You're too much of an idiot to waste time on.

Coward. You can't do it, because you know they are far right wingers. Your idiocy has been cornered and so you run.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UYlBMh5hqX0/TMhGfJ2HHAI/AAAAAAAAAhg/uD2tkeo0ms0/s1600/110296.jpg

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/rally08_mp_web_t607.jpeg

You're such a fucking lying scumbag.

They're only "Right Wingers" because that how Progressives classify them

Now, now CrusaderFrank, don't lose your cool (not that you've ever had one). You should feel good, there are at least three members of the echo chamber even dumber than you on this thread (and all keep posting the same silly bull shit). Since Progressives classify the Germany under Hitler as Right Wing, tell us how you and the other Reactionaries Classify them?

Are you claiming that Left WIng Fascism is better?

If not, what is the purpose of the diatribe?

Tyranny by the majority is tyranny nevertheless.

John Adams

.

Are you asking me if my question is making a claim? If so that is both silly and a non sequitur. Try reading my post again.

 

[kaz]

No, you link to someone not smart enough to make up their own definitions but does it anyway.

So what about answering the question, Skippy. How was fascist Germany materially different from Communist Russia?

Soviet Communist were left wing and Nazi Germany was right wing......as everyone obviously already knows. Well.....almost everyone.

Repeating your assertion as truth is a logical fallacy called "begging the question."

You really are an ignorant partisan, the truth of the conclusion is assumed by the premises, is the fallacy of begging the question.

The question is how are they materially different? If "everyone already knows" then why can't you simply answer the question instead of ducking and dodging? How were they different that makes Germany "right" and Russia "left?" They were two peas in a pod, both socialist.

Not so. The commonality is both were forms of rule by terror, not the rule of law, and each were ruled by single personality.

"Many conservatives accuse Hitler of being a leftist, on the grounds that his party was named "National Socialist." But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state.

"True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship -- it can only be democratic.

"Hitler's other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist."

Kaz really is an ignorant, the truth of the conclusion is assumed by the premises, is the fallacy of begging the question.

Link: Myth Hitler was a leftist

Pass, if you want to argue with George Bush, do that. Moron.

Refute this asshole:

Communism vs Fascism

Though some (STUPID PARTISAN ASSHOLES) may term communism and fascism as the two sides of the same coin, they are different in their ideology and other aspects. Communism is a socio economic system that stands for a class less, state less and an egalitarian society. Fascism is an ideology that tries to bring together radical and authoritarian nationalism.


Read more: Difference Between Communism and fascism | Difference Between | Communism vs fascism Difference Between Communism and fascism Difference Between Communism vs fascism

I already told you moron that I'm not defending the Republicans. If you want to debate me, do that. If you want to debate George Bush, do that. I don't give a shit about the Republicans, yet you start every post by calling me one. I stop reading there.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Soviet Communist were left wing and Nazi Germany was right wing......as everyone obviously already knows. Well.....almost everyone.

Repeating your assertion as truth is a logical fallacy called "begging the question."

You really are an ignorant partisan, the truth of the conclusion is assumed by the premises, is the fallacy of begging the question.

The question is how are they materially different? If "everyone already knows" then why can't you simply answer the question instead of ducking and dodging? How were they different that makes Germany "right" and Russia "left?" They were two peas in a pod, both socialist.

Not so. The commonality is both were forms of rule by terror, not the rule of law, and each were ruled by single personality.

"Many conservatives accuse Hitler of being a leftist, on the grounds that his party was named "National Socialist." But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state.

"True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship -- it can only be democratic.

"Hitler's other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist."

Kaz really is an ignorant, the truth of the conclusion is assumed by the premises, is the fallacy of begging the question.

Link: Myth Hitler was a leftist

Pass, if you want to argue with George Bush, do that. Moron.

Refute this asshole:

Communism vs Fascism

Though some (STUPID PARTISAN ASSHOLES) may term communism and fascism as the two sides of the same coin, they are different in their ideology and other aspects. Communism is a socio economic system that stands for a class less, state less and an egalitarian society. Fascism is an ideology that tries to bring together radical and authoritarian nationalism.


Read more: Difference Between Communism and fascism | Difference Between | Communism vs fascism Difference Between Communism and fascism Difference Between Communism vs fascism

I already told you moron that I'm not defending the Republicans. If you want to debate me, do that. If you want to debate George Bush, do that. I don't give a shit about the Republicans, yet you start every post by calling me one. I stop reading there.

I don't believe I called you a Republican, I do believe you're an asshole. Does that help?

 

[kaz]

How much brain damage do you have to have to think these photos scream "left wingers"?

That's a serious question. How much brain damage do you have to have? It's got to be at least seven pounds of brain damage.

Wow, great argument. You have a photo. Actually two. You're right, now we can completely ignore what fascists do and just look at the photo. Wow, another great argument, how do you come up with those?

You are what happens when you take a morally and intellectually weak somewhat conservative child and run them through the liberal public schools. You think you're still a conservative, but you're not. Not remotely. You're a fiddle, and the left endlessly plays you.

Go ahead. Tell us those people are left wingers. Go ahead. I want an open admission from you that you have seven pounds of brain damage.

Don't dodge. Say it straight. Tell us these people are left wingers.

Come on. Don't be a chickenshit. Do it. Say it. Please, please, please tell us these are left wingers.

I didn't tell you those people are left wingers, I didn't tell you anything about those people. I told you what fascism is and what the Fascists of Europe did in the 30s. They were socialists. Which is what they called themselves. I am not interested in arguing pictures of skin heads. They fly the Nazi flag, that doesn't mean they are fascists and it certainly doesn't mean they define fascism. It's sad what government schools did to you. You might have had hope. I see an occasional glimmer of consiousness. This isn't one of those times.

 

[bripat9643]

Tell us the people in the photos I have posted are left wingers.

Please.

We need your seven pounds of brain damage unequivocally documented.

You're too much of an idiot to waste time on.

Coward. You can't do it, because you know they are far right wingers. Your idiocy has been cornered and so you run.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UYlBMh5hqX0/TMhGfJ2HHAI/AAAAAAAAAhg/uD2tkeo0ms0/s1600/110296.jpg

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/rally08_mp_web_t607.jpeg

On second thought, he's not smart enough to run. He will keep insisting the BIG LIE is truth because he has nothing of substance to post or do.

Can you direct us to "something of substance" that you have posted? Nobody participating in this thread on your side of the issue has posted anything of substance. Most of the posts consist of little more than saying "everyone knows the Nazis are right-wingers!"

Substance?

Tell us the people in the photos I have posted are left wingers.

Please.

We need your seven pounds of brain damage unequivocally documented.

You're too much of an idiot to waste time on.

Coward. You can't do it, because you know they are far right wingers. Your idiocy has been cornered and so you run.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UYlBMh5hqX0/TMhGfJ2HHAI/AAAAAAAAAhg/uD2tkeo0ms0/s1600/110296.jpg

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/rally08_mp_web_t607.jpeg

On second thought, he's not smart enough to run. He will keep insisting the BIG LIE is truth because he has nothing of substance to post or do.

Can you direct us to "something of substance" that you have posted? Nobody participating in this thread on your side of the issue has posted anything of substance. Most of the posts consist of little more than saying "everyone knows the Nazis are right-wingers!"

Difference Between Communism and fascism Difference Between Communism vs fascism

From your link it appears that all the claims communism makes about itself are lies, whereas the claims fascism makes have some semblance of truth to them.

 

[bripat9643]

One thing von Kuehnelt made clear, Nazism and Fascism rose from democracies.

Correct.

Nazism (/ˈnɑːtsɪz(ə)m/; alternatively spelled Naziism),[1] or National Socialism in full (German: Nationalsozialismus) . However , Hitler understood that socialism sucks ---that central planning is useless so he decided that fascism was better.


Fascism allows the government to use (force) private entrepreneurs into assisting the bureaucracy in perpetrating its dastardly deeds.

And there's one fundamental difference between left wing totalitarians and right wing totalitarians. Private entrepreneurs make lots of money with right wing totalitarians.

The term "right-wing totalitarianism" is an oxymoron. You can't have a free market and totalitarianism.

 

[kaz]

Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle. Here is Orwell on the topic in 1940

Orwell in a Mein Kampf review talking about an english edition "edited from a pro-Hitler angle". "For at that date Hitler was still respectable. He had crushed the German labour movement, and for that the property-owning classes were willing to forgive him almost anything. Both Left and Right concurred in the very shallow notion that National Socialism was merely a version of Conservatism."

He crushed the labor movement, then government controlled labor. And you see that as anti-socialist? Seriously?

? Seriously?....yes seriously...and I think the vast majority of people in the world would see it that way too.

Seriously? You think truth is a vote? Well, actually obviously you do since you are a Democrat. Though you only think truth is a vote when you win. Otherwise truth is what the courts say. I'm not sure what that is even supposed to mean. The majority of people in this country can't name the vice president.

 

[kaz]

No, you link to someone not smart enough to make up their own definitions but does it anyway.

So what about answering the question, Skippy. How was fascist Germany materially different from Communist Russia?

Soviet Communist were left wing and Nazi Germany was right wing......as everyone obviously already knows. Well.....almost everyone.

Repeating your assertion as truth is a logical fallacy called "begging the question."

The question is how are they materially different? If "everyone already knows" then why can't you simply answer the question instead of ducking and dodging? How were they different that makes Germany "right" and Russia "left?" They were two peas in a pod, both socialist.

Neither was socialist, which has to be democratic. One totalitarianism was communist, collective economy, the other fascist, capitalist economy. Duh.

You pulled that out of your ass. Where do you get that socialism has to be Democratic?

World Book Encyclopedia. 1960 lol the "Bible". Call socialism social democracy and maybe your cold war dinosaur brain won't explode...

Social democracy is a form of socialism. Your argument that it defines socialism is like saying all mammals are dogs.

 

[bripat9643]

It's been demonstrated that the NAZIs were a socialist regime.

Sounds like you put up a website and then this counts as proof and you won't listen to anything else.

Try reading "Socialism" by Ludwig von Mises or "The Road to Serfdom" by Frederic Hayek.

Why?

So you'll learn why fascism is just another form of socialism. Both men are renowned economists, by the way. Hayek received a Nobel prise.

 

[Iceweasel]

Hey libs, found another book for ya...

Thanks for presenting this book cover. It's a good example of superficial political/ideological dialectics completely devoid of any real historical perspective. This author is nothing like an actual historian. But thanks any way.

Aw somebody didn't like the source. Only libs can say who's to be believed. Proving again and again that arrogance is all they have to sell.

Thanks anyway.

 

[Wry Catcher]

You're too much of an idiot to waste time on.

Coward. You can't do it, because you know they are far right wingers. Your idiocy has been cornered and so you run.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UYlBMh5hqX0/TMhGfJ2HHAI/AAAAAAAAAhg/uD2tkeo0ms0/s1600/110296.jpg

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/rally08_mp_web_t607.jpeg

On second thought, he's not smart enough to run. He will keep insisting the BIG LIE is truth because he has nothing of substance to post or do.

Can you direct us to "something of substance" that you have posted? Nobody participating in this thread on your side of the issue has posted anything of substance. Most of the posts consist of little more than saying "everyone knows the Nazis are right-wingers!"

Substance?

You're too much of an idiot to waste time on.

Coward. You can't do it, because you know they are far right wingers. Your idiocy has been cornered and so you run.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UYlBMh5hqX0/TMhGfJ2HHAI/AAAAAAAAAhg/uD2tkeo0ms0/s1600/110296.jpg

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/rally08_mp_web_t607.jpeg

On second thought, he's not smart enough to run. He will keep insisting the BIG LIE is truth because he has nothing of substance to post or do.

Can you direct us to "something of substance" that you have posted? Nobody participating in this thread on your side of the issue has posted anything of substance. Most of the posts consist of little more than saying "everyone knows the Nazis are right-wingers!"

Difference Between Communism and fascism Difference Between Communism vs fascism

From your link it appears that all the claims communism makes about itself are lies, whereas the claims fascism makes have some semblance of truth to them.

From the link:

Communism stands for a stateless society where all are equal. No one is rich or poor in a communist system. In Communism, it is the community that holds the production and the major resources. On the other hand, Fascism pertains to state and it considers state on top of everything. In fascism the state is all embracing. For the fascists, no human values exist outside the state. Fascism believes that everything is within the State and nothing is above the State or outside the State or against the State. Fascism believes in nationalism (includes economic nationalism), corporatism (includes economic planning), militarism and totalitarianism (dictatorship and social interventionism).

Read more: Difference Between Communism and fascism | Difference Between | Communism vs fascism http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-communism-and-fascism/#ixzz3K7P08mrb

 

[Iceweasel]

So because they're historians they don't understand economics?

Apparently economists can't understand history. But liberals believe conservative historians aren't historians.

 

[kaz]

Coward. You can't do it, because you know they are far right wingers. Your idiocy has been cornered and so you run.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UYlBMh5hqX0/TMhGfJ2HHAI/AAAAAAAAAhg/uD2tkeo0ms0/s1600/110296.jpg

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/rally08_mp_web_t607.jpeg

On second thought, he's not smart enough to run. He will keep insisting the BIG LIE is truth because he has nothing of substance to post or do.

Can you direct us to "something of substance" that you have posted? Nobody participating in this thread on your side of the issue has posted anything of substance. Most of the posts consist of little more than saying "everyone knows the Nazis are right-wingers!"

Substance?

Coward. You can't do it, because you know they are far right wingers. Your idiocy has been cornered and so you run.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UYlBMh5hqX0/TMhGfJ2HHAI/AAAAAAAAAhg/uD2tkeo0ms0/s1600/110296.jpg

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/rally08_mp_web_t607.jpeg

On second thought, he's not smart enough to run. He will keep insisting the BIG LIE is truth because he has nothing of substance to post or do.

Can you direct us to "something of substance" that you have posted? Nobody participating in this thread on your side of the issue has posted anything of substance. Most of the posts consist of little more than saying "everyone knows the Nazis are right-wingers!"

Difference Between Communism and fascism Difference Between Communism vs fascism

From your link it appears that all the claims communism makes about itself are lies, whereas the claims fascism makes have some semblance of truth to them.

From the link:

Communism stands for a stateless society where all are equal. No one is rich or poor in a communist system. In Communism, it is the community that holds the production and the major resources. On the other hand, Fascism pertains to state and it considers state on top of everything. In fascism the state is all embracing. For the fascists, no human values exist outside the state. Fascism believes that everything is within the State and nothing is above the State or outside the State or against the State. Fascism believes in nationalism (includes economic nationalism), corporatism (includes economic planning), militarism and totalitarianism (dictatorship and social interventionism).

Read more: Difference Between Communism and fascism | Difference Between | Communism vs fascism http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-communism-and-fascism/#ixzz3K7P08mrb

LOL, so you're using the Kumbaya definition of communism and comparing that to the reality of the 30s fascists. The endless dream world you live in. So let's compare the concepts you just raised. Is Germany more ... than Russia?

Stateless: Same, they are both brutally totalitarian, you are in the Nazi/Communist party or you are nothing.

Production and major resources: Both controlled by government in both systems.

Is the "state on top of everything?" For both, yes

Do human values exist outside the State? For both, no.

Nationalism - Germany, Russia, the same

Corporatism - For both, totalitarian government controls industry, there is no industry other than that explicitly allowed and that industry must follow the State social policy.

Militarism. Germany? Russia? You bet your ass.

Totalitarianism? Yep

You just shot a big gaping hole in yourself. Fascism = Communism by all your standards. nice job.

 

[2aguy]

Communism stands for a stateless society where all are equal. No one is rich or poor in a communist system. In Communism, it is the community that holds the production and the major resources. On the other hand, Fascism pertains to state and it considers state on top of everything. In fascism the state is all embracing. For the fascists, no human values exist outside the state. Fascism believes that everything is within the State and nothing is above the State or outside the State or against the State. Fascism believes in nationalism (includes economic nationalism), corporatism (includes economic planning), militarism and totalitarianism (dictatorship and social interventionism).

The communists in the Soviet Union will admit that they were at the intermediate stage....Socialism....the part of communism where the state controlled the means of production until they were ready for true communism...so you have just defined socialism...the state in control of the means of production...nazism simply believed in socialism for the German people and didn't care about anyone else....the "communists" believed in international socialism....which meant worldwide socialism...otherwise...they were the same thing...