Housing is not a right

[McRocket]

We've chosen to conflate "rights" with "wants", just as we've chosen to conflate fact with opinion.

I hope there is a way to back to critical thinking from here, but I just don't see it.

Not "we" have chosen, the left has chosen.

By Clintonizing words like rights, they are able to draw a little more attention and sympathy to their cause. They often use the term Human Rights because they know their so-called made-up rights are not constitutional ones.

Both ends of the spectrum toss important words around like they're nothing.

The Left tosses out "rights", "racism", "homophobia" and "Nazi".

The Right tosses out "socialist", "communism" and (of course) "Nazi".

WE are to blame for that behavior.
.

You and I do not always agree.

But this part of your argument I FULLY concur with.

ALL Americans are to blame for America's problems...especially for the ridiculous level of partisanship that has fallen over U.S. politics. And it helps America not one bit.
In fact, I think partisan politics is slowly destroying America.

That is largely why I am Independent (plus I think both major parties are so corrupt as to be beyond useless).

Well, considering most of your posts, some of us are fricken shocked you would consider yourself an independent.

Lol...I got the same line from Obamabots on other boards when he was in power. Believe whatever you want...you will anyway.

For the record (and because I have time to kill), I am for small government, balanced budgets (no matter what - except during a declared war), no Fed, no tariffs, pro free trade, no Fed/gov't. bailouts of anyone or anything, MUCH smaller peace time army/large reserves (like the Founding Fathers wanted), NO US involvement in overseas military deployments without a declaration of war, welfare payments replaced by regional welfare centers, full government healthcare for children/disabled, I believe the 2'nd Amendment ONLY applies to the Militia (if you are not in the military, you should - with some exceptions - not be able to own a gun) and I am against the electoral college.
As for taxes?
No corporate taxes, zero taxes for the poor (those under the poverty line), no deductions except for charitable contributions/capital losses and income and capital gains tax rates should be identical.

Oh, and I thought GWB, Obama and Trump did/are doing lousy jobs as POTUS. But I have some respect for GWB as a person, more respect for Obama (I thought both are basically decent humans) and virtually NONE for Trump (who I think is staggeringly selfish and probably mentally disturbed).

If you think that is a typical lib or con list...than you have no idea what you are talking about.

I am an independent. You/other faceless nobodies on a chat forum don't agree? Guess how much I care (rhetorical question)?
A little - but not much.

We are done here as I am not wasting my time debating any of the above in this thread.
Good day.

 

[beagle9]

No, you have a right to access those things, but not a right to be provided those things. Big difference.

Your rights end where mine begin.

These people want me to provide them with housing?

Why don’t liberals just sponsor homeless people to live in their spare bedrooms? Problem solved,

I unfortunately live next door to HUD people. Nice and quiet here until they moved in. Now they wake me at night because these lowlifes don't work or only work a few hours. They have BBQ parties for their friends; likely food bought with food stamps, and they are in the suburbs.

So where does this right exist that I work at least 40 a week to live here, and they get to move in virtually free and not work? As for the adults, all they'd have to do is lose about 200 lbs each and they could easily work. They have the energy to setup these parties of theirs all the time, I'm sure they have enough energy to support themselves.

They BBQ?
OMG! Where does the depravity end?

Well it's like my friends that me and the wife knows, and yep they confirmed the same story Ray has... LOL.... They said they ain't got a problem with people BBQing but when it goes on for 4 days straight like they experienced recently it was like Come onnnnnn really.

I still don't get it, but whatever you can find to diss your poorer neighbors, I guess it flies for you.

Truth is something you loath eh ??

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I know someone who has been on and off government assistance since she was 18 years old, and she says that the system of assistance sets the person up to fail, and causes the person to remain dependent.

I said to her that I think that there should be case workers assigned to 20 cases each or more if the work load is organized properly.. Reports are to be made, records kept, and help given in financial and schooling with results obtained. Drug testing should also be a big part of it. Living inspections made on properties being rented by the assistance programs etc.

And most of all we need government workers hired that don't have a biased or conflict of interest involved in doing their jobs. Otherwise drain the dam swamp already.

Everyone knows what has gone on to create these things, but people feel helpless to straighten the bullcrap out. Time to vote in the answers to these issues, and quit being fooled to place people in jobs that never intend to do the right thing, but instead see's their position as a given once obtained.

Trump is setting the tone on work ethic, and if others aren't willing to work hard, then get the hell out.

In Maine, unless you have a documented disability, you can't get any welfare unless you have children. A lot of them would happily be working and out of the "system" but the cost of daycare would make it impossible. That and the loss of healthcare. We have to care for the kids, give them the best start we can, or this cycle of generational poverty will never end. So I believe that safe, affordable daycare for all parents should be a priority. It is definitely a huge problem here.

I thought we already have government daycare. I live in an majority black suburb and there are as many daycares here as there are dollar stores and nail salons. If they are not here because of government, why do we have so many with no government funds?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

why do so many libs keep saying that it is?

You prefer them shitting on the sidewalk in L.A. because they're living on the street with no options. I'm pretty sure you were strongly in favor of that, weren't you?

Decent people don't shit on the sidewalk, whether they have a place to live or not. People who shit on the street aren't going to behave decently, whether you give them a house or not.

Do NOT try to BS us that people are shitting on the sidewalk only because the government hasn't shelled out for an apartment, and if it did, they'll straighten right up and be indistinguishable from your average bank manager.

And if that is a problem, then why doesn't the city provide a port-a-potty so they don't shit on the sidewalks?

For starters, because they aren't doing it because of a lack of bathrooms. It's like the popular leftist trope of "crime is caused by poverty". No, any time humans are behaving like animals, it's because there is no expectation being put upon them to behave as anything else.

Or it could be that many of those people are too mentally ill to use a restroom. Unfortunately our Constitution forbids us from taking those people off the streets to have them institutionalized.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

why do so many libs keep saying that it is?

It generally believed that people need food, water and shelter to survive. Since the Right to Life is listed in the declaration of independence as an inalienable right, anyone who believes in inalienable rights would agree that housing is inherently a right.

No, you have a right to access those things, but not a right to be provided those things. Big difference.

Your rights end where mine begin.

These people want me to provide them with housing?

Why don’t liberals just sponsor homeless people to live in their spare bedrooms? Problem solved,

I unfortunately live next door to HUD people. Nice and quiet here until they moved in. Now they wake me at night because these lowlifes don't work or only work a few hours. They have BBQ parties for their friends; likely food bought with food stamps, and they are in the suburbs.

So where does this right exist that I work at least 40 a week to live here, and they get to move in virtually free and not work? As for the adults, all they'd have to do is lose about 200 lbs each and they could easily work. They have the energy to setup these parties of theirs all the time, I'm sure they have enough energy to support themselves.

They BBQ?
OMG! Where does the depravity end?

The problem in our country is our so-called poor have cell phones, live in the suburbs, obviously don't work, have pets galore, families larger than working folks, and not only eat like pigs, but can throw parties all night long to boot.

I have had parties in the past, and they are not cheap. I've also been poor before, and trust me, I didn't even have money to have a friend over to watch a football game yet alone have 20 people over.

 

[OldLady]

I know someone who has been on and off government assistance since she was 18 years old, and she says that the system of assistance sets the person up to fail, and causes the person to remain dependent.

I said to her that I think that there should be case workers assigned to 20 cases each or more if the work load is organized properly.. Reports are to be made, records kept, and help given in financial and schooling with results obtained. Drug testing should also be a big part of it. Living inspections made on properties being rented by the assistance programs etc.

And most of all we need government workers hired that don't have a biased or conflict of interest involved in doing their jobs. Otherwise drain the dam swamp already.

Everyone knows what has gone on to create these things, but people feel helpless to straighten the bullcrap out. Time to vote in the answers to these issues, and quit being fooled to place people in jobs that never intend to do the right thing, but instead see's their position as a given once obtained.

Trump is setting the tone on work ethic, and if others aren't willing to work hard, then get the hell out.

In Maine, unless you have a documented disability, you can't get any welfare unless you have children. A lot of them would happily be working and out of the "system" but the cost of daycare would make it impossible. That and the loss of healthcare. We have to care for the kids, give them the best start we can, or this cycle of generational poverty will never end. So I believe that safe, affordable daycare for all parents should be a priority. It is definitely a huge problem here.

I thought we already have government daycare. I live in an majority black suburb and there are as many daycares here as there are dollar stores and nail salons. If they are not here because of government, why do we have so many with no government funds?

It isn't because day cares don't exist, it is because to pay for two or three kids to have daycare costs more than a lot of people earn.
I don't live in a suburb and the jobs for people without a college degree, unless you can somehow go out on a fishing boat, are not high. Most employers are also careful to hire part-time (30 hour cut off) so they don't have to provide medical insurance.

 

[OldLady]

It generally believed that people need food, water and shelter to survive. Since the Right to Life is listed in the declaration of independence as an inalienable right, anyone who believes in inalienable rights would agree that housing is inherently a right.

No, you have a right to access those things, but not a right to be provided those things. Big difference.

Your rights end where mine begin.

These people want me to provide them with housing?

Why don’t liberals just sponsor homeless people to live in their spare bedrooms? Problem solved,

I unfortunately live next door to HUD people. Nice and quiet here until they moved in. Now they wake me at night because these lowlifes don't work or only work a few hours. They have BBQ parties for their friends; likely food bought with food stamps, and they are in the suburbs.

So where does this right exist that I work at least 40 a week to live here, and they get to move in virtually free and not work? As for the adults, all they'd have to do is lose about 200 lbs each and they could easily work. They have the energy to setup these parties of theirs all the time, I'm sure they have enough energy to support themselves.

They BBQ?
OMG! Where does the depravity end?

The problem in our country is our so-called poor have cell phones, live in the suburbs, obviously don't work, have pets galore, families larger than working folks, and not only eat like pigs, but can throw parties all night long to boot.

I have had parties in the past, and they are not cheap. I've also been poor before, and trust me, I didn't even have money to have a friend over to watch a football game yet alone have 20 people over.

Oh, Ray.
I lived in the slums and in the summer with no a/c it was HOT. Once the kids were in bed and the sun was going down, we were out at the picnic table in the backyard playing poker and drinking moonshine punch. It's cooler outside, boss.
As for eating, everyone does that. Cooking it outside is somehow bad? How much do hotdogs really cost? Or chicken legs? Is it more expensive to cook them outside than on the stove? Everyone brings something, I'm sure, and they have a feed. Should they be limited to beans? For heaven's sake.

 

[OldLady]

Your rights end where mine begin.

These people want me to provide them with housing?

Why don’t liberals just sponsor homeless people to live in their spare bedrooms? Problem solved,

I unfortunately live next door to HUD people. Nice and quiet here until they moved in. Now they wake me at night because these lowlifes don't work or only work a few hours. They have BBQ parties for their friends; likely food bought with food stamps, and they are in the suburbs.

So where does this right exist that I work at least 40 a week to live here, and they get to move in virtually free and not work? As for the adults, all they'd have to do is lose about 200 lbs each and they could easily work. They have the energy to setup these parties of theirs all the time, I'm sure they have enough energy to support themselves.

They BBQ?
OMG! Where does the depravity end?

Well it's like my friends that me and the wife knows, and yep they confirmed the same story Ray has... LOL.... They said they ain't got a problem with people BBQing but when it goes on for 4 days straight like they experienced recently it was like Come onnnnnn really.

I still don't get it, but whatever you can find to diss your poorer neighbors, I guess it flies for you.

Truth is something you loath eh ??

What's wrong with BBQ'ing?

 

[dblack]

Don't know about a right, we could start thinking about root cause & what we could do about it.

Or maybe actually identify the root problem we're trying to solve?

 

[dblack]

I unfortunately live next door to HUD people. Nice and quiet here until they moved in. Now they wake me at night because these lowlifes don't work or only work a few hours. They have BBQ parties for their friends; likely food bought with food stamps, and they are in the suburbs.

So where does this right exist that I work at least 40 a week to live here, and they get to move in virtually free and not work? As for the adults, all they'd have to do is lose about 200 lbs each and they could easily work. They have the energy to setup these parties of theirs all the time, I'm sure they have enough energy to support themselves.

They BBQ?
OMG! Where does the depravity end?

Well it's like my friends that me and the wife knows, and yep they confirmed the same story Ray has... LOL.... They said they ain't got a problem with people BBQing but when it goes on for 4 days straight like they experienced recently it was like Come onnnnnn really.

I still don't get it, but whatever you can find to diss your poorer neighbors, I guess it flies for you.

Truth is something you loath eh ??

What's wrong with BBQ'ing?

I think they're supposed to do the walk of shame or something.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Don't know about a right, we could start thinking about root cause & what we could do about it.

Or maybe actually identify the root problem we're trying to solve?

What do you think the root is ?

 

[OldLady]

They BBQ?
OMG! Where does the depravity end?

Well it's like my friends that me and the wife knows, and yep they confirmed the same story Ray has... LOL.... They said they ain't got a problem with people BBQing but when it goes on for 4 days straight like they experienced recently it was like Come onnnnnn really.

I still don't get it, but whatever you can find to diss your poorer neighbors, I guess it flies for you.

Truth is something you loath eh ??

What's wrong with BBQ'ing?

I think they're supposed to do the walk of shame or something.

I think you're getting closer....

 

[dblack]

Don't know about a right, we could start thinking about root cause & what we could do about it.

Or maybe actually identify the root problem we're trying to solve?

What do you think the root is ?

I don't know. I'm not advocating for housing "reform". I'm asking.

 

[hunarcy]

They want the government to pay for everything........lefties cant function without someone telling them what to do.....they're like perpetual children, that need a mommy and daddy to function.

This from a blind member of a group who cannot live without Donnie shitstain telling them what to think and do. Which would only be somewhat pathetic if Donnie shitstain didn’t get the entirety of being from Faux news

Amazing. One post and I know it's a waste of time to read your drivel and put you on ignore. A record!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, you have a right to access those things, but not a right to be provided those things. Big difference.

Your rights end where mine begin.

These people want me to provide them with housing?

Why don’t liberals just sponsor homeless people to live in their spare bedrooms? Problem solved,

I unfortunately live next door to HUD people. Nice and quiet here until they moved in. Now they wake me at night because these lowlifes don't work or only work a few hours. They have BBQ parties for their friends; likely food bought with food stamps, and they are in the suburbs.

So where does this right exist that I work at least 40 a week to live here, and they get to move in virtually free and not work? As for the adults, all they'd have to do is lose about 200 lbs each and they could easily work. They have the energy to setup these parties of theirs all the time, I'm sure they have enough energy to support themselves.

They BBQ?
OMG! Where does the depravity end?

The problem in our country is our so-called poor have cell phones, live in the suburbs, obviously don't work, have pets galore, families larger than working folks, and not only eat like pigs, but can throw parties all night long to boot.

I have had parties in the past, and they are not cheap. I've also been poor before, and trust me, I didn't even have money to have a friend over to watch a football game yet alone have 20 people over.

Oh, Ray.
I lived in the slums and in the summer with no a/c it was HOT. Once the kids were in bed and the sun was going down, we were out at the picnic table in the backyard playing poker and drinking moonshine punch. It's cooler outside, boss.
As for eating, everyone does that. Cooking it outside is somehow bad? How much do hotdogs really cost? Or chicken legs? Is it more expensive to cook them outside than on the stove? Everyone brings something, I'm sure, and they have a feed. Should they be limited to beans? For heaven's sake.

Our welfare people are throwing parties and you're asking me about what's wrong with just cooking outside?

Maybe instead of throwing parties, they could use the time they spend preparing and throwing them to look for a Fn job. Maybe concentrate on losing a few hundred pounds. Maybe saving a little bit so someday they won't be supported by me and other taxpayers.

When I first started out as an adult, I went to the grocery store to get five pounds of ground meat to make hamburgers for the week and a loaf of bread to use instead of the more expensive buns. The last thing I could even consider is throwing a party.

And no, there was not one hotdog on their grill.

 

[dblack]

Don't know about a right, we could start thinking about root cause & what we could do about it.

Or maybe actually identify the root problem we're trying to solve?

What do you think the root is ?

I don't know. I'm not advocating for housing "reform". I'm asking.

Well? Do you have an answer?

This is the dysfunction of so many "reform" efforts. They're all murky about what problems they're trying to solve, and instead jump straight to pre-formulated solutions. This was what turned ACA into such a shitshow. There was nothing but equivocation when it came to identifying the problem. They were more interested in the solution. Which tells us something.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I know someone who has been on and off government assistance since she was 18 years old, and she says that the system of assistance sets the person up to fail, and causes the person to remain dependent.

I said to her that I think that there should be case workers assigned to 20 cases each or more if the work load is organized properly.. Reports are to be made, records kept, and help given in financial and schooling with results obtained. Drug testing should also be a big part of it. Living inspections made on properties being rented by the assistance programs etc.

And most of all we need government workers hired that don't have a biased or conflict of interest involved in doing their jobs. Otherwise drain the dam swamp already.

Everyone knows what has gone on to create these things, but people feel helpless to straighten the bullcrap out. Time to vote in the answers to these issues, and quit being fooled to place people in jobs that never intend to do the right thing, but instead see's their position as a given once obtained.

Trump is setting the tone on work ethic, and if others aren't willing to work hard, then get the hell out.

In Maine, unless you have a documented disability, you can't get any welfare unless you have children. A lot of them would happily be working and out of the "system" but the cost of daycare would make it impossible. That and the loss of healthcare. We have to care for the kids, give them the best start we can, or this cycle of generational poverty will never end. So I believe that safe, affordable daycare for all parents should be a priority. It is definitely a huge problem here.

I thought we already have government daycare. I live in an majority black suburb and there are as many daycares here as there are dollar stores and nail salons. If they are not here because of government, why do we have so many with no government funds?

It isn't because day cares don't exist, it is because to pay for two or three kids to have daycare costs more than a lot of people earn.
I don't live in a suburb and the jobs for people without a college degree, unless you can somehow go out on a fishing boat, are not high. Most employers are also careful to hire part-time (30 hour cut off) so they don't have to provide medical insurance.

There is no longer any law that says if you work past 30 hours, you must provide medical insurance. That went out with President Trump.

So if there are no government vouchers for daycare, why are they popping up nearly every ten blocks? Do people around here have a lot more money than I suspected? Because I go into better suburbs and see very few.

State Child Care Assistance/Child Care Vouchers

Every state receives funds from the federal government to support child care assistance programs. These programs may go by other names, such as vouchers, fee assistance, subsidy, or use a specific program name. These programs help families who qualify pay for child care so they can work or go to school. Check your state’s eligibility requirements by visiting your state’s child care assistance website (find it on our State by State Resource Map under your state’s Financial Assistance tab.)

State Funded Pre-K

Some states fund half-day or full-day Pre-K programs for 3 to 5 year old children, with the goal of improving school readiness. These programs may be offered at low or no cost to eligible families. Some states have made it available for all families. Contact your local Child Care Resource and Referral agency to find out more and to help you find a Pre-K program where you live.

Help Paying for Child Care - Child Care Aware

 

[OODA_Loop]

Well? Do you have an answer?

At the foundational level a return to a culture of accountability of the individual with a societal safety net.

Instead of a societal hammock and a culture of entitlement.

 

[dblack]

Well? Do you have an answer?

At the foundational level a return to a culture of accountability of the individual with a societal safety net.

Instead of a societal hammock and a culture of entitlement.

Well, again, you're describing a solution. What problem are you hoping to solve?

 

[OODA_Loop]

Well, again, you're describing a solution. What problem are you hoping to solve?

Suckling the .gov teat.