How Far Back In American History Are Blacks Allowed To Go Back?

[Meister]

closed for a cleansing, will reopen soon...
hopefully

 

[Meister]

Cleaned the thread, stay on topic going forward, thank you in advance.

 

[MarcATL]

I understand that the government is paying for it but the government operates off tax revenue that is paid by Americans, so I guess my question is where do the funds come from?

Are you willing to consume that book I recommended?

 

[Slade3200]

I understand that the government is paying for it but the government operates off tax revenue that is paid by Americans, so I guess my question is where do the funds come from?

Are you willing to consume that book I recommended?

To be honest, I don’t have time for a new book right now as I have several others in the queue and not enough time to sit and read them. I am however very interested in the subject and open to hearing ideas and plans

 

[OldLady]

Do the families of men killed fighting in the Civil War to free slaves take part in those reparations? Do ALL the men fighting on the Union side qualify? Their descendants? If you're ancestors were abolitionists do you get a pass on paying for reparations? On the other side of the coin...what is your time line for which blacks qualify for your reparations? Before the Civil War? Fifty years ago? Does a black person in America NOW qualify simply because racism still exists?

Why would Civil War soliders get reparations? Their families received whachacallits--pensions? You know what I mean. My family lost a young soldier and they received $$.

They did indeed. You should note that those pensions constituted about 40% of total Federal revenues back then forcing the Government to increase tariffs on goods to pay for them. You should also note that black soldiers who fought in the Civil War received pensions as well. Should THEY not be eligible for reparations because of that?

You still haven't answered my question. Why should they be eligible for reparations? They weren't slaves, they weren't discriminated against (if they lived), didn't have their human rights shit all over.

 

[Slade3200]

How do they actively fight and what are they fighting for? New policy? Harsher punishment? What specifically

I want you to read the book: When Affirmative Action Was White: An Untold History of Racial Inequality in Twentieth-Century America

Then let's have a good discussion about it.

You can get the audio book if you like, I used AudioBook.com, it's really great. You pay 15 bucks a month, and every month you get a credit which you can use to buy, and keep, any book you want.

And I'm being serious.

Audio book is a great idea. I need to start doing that

 

[Slade3200]

How is all of this traced. Would we need to make a new government agency to do heritage research/verification and also manage collection and distribution of funds? Does a mixed race individual get the same money as a person with two slave descendants? Rich people get the same as poor?

I don't have the answers.

Experts will have to determine these things.

However,I get the impression that you really don't want NONE of this happening, do you?

I dont mean to give off that impression. I’m just a detail oriented person and while the idea of reparation sounds nice, I don’t yet see a realistic plan to execute. I’m also not convinced that it is the right answer to our problems but I’m open to listening and learning.

 

[flacaltenn]

I've seen the sentiment of "stop looking back into the past" , "oh, you're only hampering yourself", "look forward, don't look back", "you're in chains", etc. etc. spewed on USMB by almost exclusively rightwing whites.

All I want to know is, what year is it OK to go back to? What date is the cut off for starting American history will make whites happy?

If you have the exact time as well, that would be a bonus.

I think it's fair game to go back as far you want.. As long as that's NOT the excuse for the current long list of perceived racial injustices that need to be addressed now.. I know Jews will "Never Forget", why should Blacks?

The difference is -- it truly appears that the history is a crutch to claiming CURRENT bias and injustice.. And rather than addressing the REAL PROBLEMS and causes of that bias and injustice, it's the slacker's way out to claim that nothing's changed....

CURRENT injustice is not really JUST a "Black Issue:"... That's the diff between civil rights and civil liberties. Over zealous and corrupt prosecutions aren't a racial issue.. And bad government issuing patently wrong police warrants is also not a black issue.. The LARGER concern is Civil Liberties which we are ALL LOSING as we cede more power to corrupt and incompetent and lazy government.. And "some people" continue to vote for it...

 

[Slade3200]

I don't understand why y'all are so down on Marc. He's smart, he's usually civil, and he's got a point, if anyone actually wanted to address it.

I mostly ignore him, because the first few things I saw him post were bigoted and asinine. I'm not going to address points made by someone who will ignore every counterpoint anyway.

If he only wants to focus on the negative of black history in the US, that's his problem. The fact remains that blacks in the US are the most prosperous, most educated, and most liberated black people on earth. Few of them could survive in africa in modern times. Rather than embrace the opportunities he has, he wants to convict white americans for all of the slavery on earth, and I'm just sick of hearing about it.


.

He’s a drive by poster. And, yes, there’s no place on earth that treats minorities as well as America.

You don’t stand with his grievances because he is a drive by poster? That’s your answer? What exactly does that mean

He has nothing to complain about. I reject the notion that he’s being held down because of his skin color.

How in the world could you know what his experiences have been and what he has to complain or not complain about?

 

[MarcATL]

I think it's fair game to go back as far you want.. As long as that's NOT the excuse for the current long list of perceived racial injustices that need to be addressed now.. I know Jews will "Never Forget", why should Blacks?

The difference is -- it truly appears that the history is a crutch to claiming CURRENT bias and injustice.. And rather than addressing the REAL PROBLEMS and causes of that bias and injustice, it's the slacker's way out to claim that nothing's changed....

CURRENT injustice is not really JUST a "Black Issue:"... That's the diff between civil rights and civil liberties. Over zealous and corrupt prosecutions aren't a racial issue.. And bad government issuing patently wrong police warrants is also not a black issue.. The LARGER concern is Civil Liberties which we are ALL LOSING as we cede more power to corrupt and incompetent and lazy government.. And "some people" continue to vote for it...

I think you need to read the book: The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness

It's bring a lot of clarity to your thinking.

 

[Cosmos]

I don't understand why y'all are so down on Marc. He's smart, he's usually civil, and he's got a point, if anyone actually wanted to address it.

I mostly ignore him, because the first few things I saw him post were bigoted and asinine. I'm not going to address points made by someone who will ignore every counterpoint anyway.

If he only wants to focus on the negative of black history in the US, that's his problem. The fact remains that blacks in the US are the most prosperous, most educated, and most liberated black people on earth. Few of them could survive in africa in modern times. Rather than embrace the opportunities he has, he wants to convict white americans for all of the slavery on earth, and I'm just sick of hearing about it.


.

He’s a drive by poster. And, yes, there’s no place on earth that treats minorities as well as America.

You don’t stand with his grievances because he is a drive by poster? That’s your answer? What exactly does that mean

He has nothing to complain about. I reject the notion that he’s being held down because of his skin color.

How in the world could you know what his experiences have been and what he has to complain or not complain about?

Good point. So it's a personal thing then. Now we're getting somewhere. Maybe anyone who gets reparations should have to apply for it based on their personal grievance. Of course we'll have to include everyone who's ever been the victim of a crime. Does getting cut off in traffic count?

 

[Slade3200]

I mostly ignore him, because the first few things I saw him post were bigoted and asinine. I'm not going to address points made by someone who will ignore every counterpoint anyway.

If he only wants to focus on the negative of black history in the US, that's his problem. The fact remains that blacks in the US are the most prosperous, most educated, and most liberated black people on earth. Few of them could survive in africa in modern times. Rather than embrace the opportunities he has, he wants to convict white americans for all of the slavery on earth, and I'm just sick of hearing about it.


.

He’s a drive by poster. And, yes, there’s no place on earth that treats minorities as well as America.

You don’t stand with his grievances because he is a drive by poster? That’s your answer? What exactly does that mean

He has nothing to complain about. I reject the notion that he’s being held down because of his skin color.

How in the world could you know what his experiences have been and what he has to complain or not complain about?

Good point. So it's a personal thing then. Now we're getting somewhere. Maybe anyone who gets reparations should have to apply for it based on their personal grievance. Of course we'll have to include everyone who's ever been the victim of a crime. Does getting cut off in traffic count?

Come on now, you know better than that. Let’s stick to the topic and try to keep the conversation On a higher level

 

[flacaltenn]

I think it's fair game to go back as far you want.. As long as that's NOT the excuse for the current long list of perceived racial injustices that need to be addressed now.. I know Jews will "Never Forget", why should Blacks?

The difference is -- it truly appears that the history is a crutch to claiming CURRENT bias and injustice.. And rather than addressing the REAL PROBLEMS and causes of that bias and injustice, it's the slacker's way out to claim that nothing's changed....

CURRENT injustice is not really JUST a "Black Issue:"... That's the diff between civil rights and civil liberties. Over zealous and corrupt prosecutions aren't a racial issue.. And bad government issuing patently wrong police warrants is also not a black issue.. The LARGER concern is Civil Liberties which we are ALL LOSING as we cede more power to corrupt and incompetent and lazy government.. And "some people" continue to vote for it...

I think you need to read the book: The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness

It's bring a lot of clarity to your thinking.

See, this is exactly what I was trying to say... Mass incarcerations are results of RECENT bad law... Ask Joe Biden about that.. To go back and make comparisons to Jim Crow just waste time and energy. Because in the bigger picture -- these problems belong to ALL OF US... Like my bro-in-law with 9 months to live tossed into prison for 18 months for growing marijuana...

These are systemic failures of govt and justice that ALL of us share.. Not some deep dark virus re-emerging from the Dark Ages....

 

[Cosmos]

He’s a drive by poster. And, yes, there’s no place on earth that treats minorities as well as America.

You don’t stand with his grievances because he is a drive by poster? That’s your answer? What exactly does that mean

He has nothing to complain about. I reject the notion that he’s being held down because of his skin color.

How in the world could you know what his experiences have been and what he has to complain or not complain about?

Good point. So it's a personal thing then. Now we're getting somewhere. Maybe anyone who gets reparations should have to apply for it based on their personal grievance. Of course we'll have to include everyone who's ever been the victim of a crime. Does getting cut off in traffic count?

Come on now, you know better than that. Let’s stick to the topic and try to keep the conversation On a higher level

The OP said we should be giving out reparations. But he had no idea how to go about it. I'm exactly on the topic and trying to be helpful.

 

[Rocko]

I don't understand why y'all are so down on Marc. He's smart, he's usually civil, and he's got a point, if anyone actually wanted to address it.

I mostly ignore him, because the first few things I saw him post were bigoted and asinine. I'm not going to address points made by someone who will ignore every counterpoint anyway.

If he only wants to focus on the negative of black history in the US, that's his problem. The fact remains that blacks in the US are the most prosperous, most educated, and most liberated black people on earth. Few of them could survive in africa in modern times. Rather than embrace the opportunities he has, he wants to convict white americans for all of the slavery on earth, and I'm just sick of hearing about it.


.

He’s a drive by poster. And, yes, there’s no place on earth that treats minorities as well as America.

You don’t stand with his grievances because he is a drive by poster? That’s your answer? What exactly does that mean

He has nothing to complain about. I reject the notion that he’s being held down because of his skin color.

How in the world could you know what his experiences have been and what he has to complain or not complain about?

I not talking about what he perceives as grievances that he has on a personal level, he’s constantly telling us blacks in general are being held down in this country because of white racism. I reject that. Also he’s patently dishonest, so if he were to talk about his personal mistreatment, I would take that with a mountain of salt.

 

[Rocko]

I mostly ignore him, because the first few things I saw him post were bigoted and asinine. I'm not going to address points made by someone who will ignore every counterpoint anyway.

If he only wants to focus on the negative of black history in the US, that's his problem. The fact remains that blacks in the US are the most prosperous, most educated, and most liberated black people on earth. Few of them could survive in africa in modern times. Rather than embrace the opportunities he has, he wants to convict white americans for all of the slavery on earth, and I'm just sick of hearing about it.


.

He’s a drive by poster. And, yes, there’s no place on earth that treats minorities as well as America.

You don’t stand with his grievances because he is a drive by poster? That’s your answer? What exactly does that mean

He has nothing to complain about. I reject the notion that he’s being held down because of his skin color.

How in the world could you know what his experiences have been and what he has to complain or not complain about?

Good point. So it's a personal thing then. Now we're getting somewhere. Maybe anyone who gets reparations should have to apply for it based on their personal grievance. Of course we'll have to include everyone who's ever been the victim of a crime. Does getting cut off in traffic count?

Great point

 

[Cosmos]

I mostly ignore him, because the first few things I saw him post were bigoted and asinine. I'm not going to address points made by someone who will ignore every counterpoint anyway.

If he only wants to focus on the negative of black history in the US, that's his problem. The fact remains that blacks in the US are the most prosperous, most educated, and most liberated black people on earth. Few of them could survive in africa in modern times. Rather than embrace the opportunities he has, he wants to convict white americans for all of the slavery on earth, and I'm just sick of hearing about it.


.

He’s a drive by poster. And, yes, there’s no place on earth that treats minorities as well as America.

You don’t stand with his grievances because he is a drive by poster? That’s your answer? What exactly does that mean

He has nothing to complain about. I reject the notion that he’s being held down because of his skin color.

How in the world could you know what his experiences have been and what he has to complain or not complain about?

I not talking about what he’s perceives as grievances that he has on a personal level, he’s constantly telling us blacks in general are being held down in this country because of white racism. I reject that. Also he’s patently dishonest, so if he were to talk about his personal mistreatment, I would take that with a mountain of salt.

I think it's perfectly fair game to ask these people who want reparations what their exact personal grievances are. Why should they be allowed to get away with not stating them? If one can make some nebulous claim to a grievance in the name of an entire race of people it's basically meaningless.

 

[Cosmos]

There's a deputy sheriff in Ft Worth under investigation for allegedly "saying the N-word". His job is at stake.

We're going to start destroying people's careers because they made an off-color comment? That's the kind of a silly grievance industry the OP is trying to create.

 

[Slade3200]

You don’t stand with his grievances because he is a drive by poster? That’s your answer? What exactly does that mean

He has nothing to complain about. I reject the notion that he’s being held down because of his skin color.

How in the world could you know what his experiences have been and what he has to complain or not complain about?

Good point. So it's a personal thing then. Now we're getting somewhere. Maybe anyone who gets reparations should have to apply for it based on their personal grievance. Of course we'll have to include everyone who's ever been the victim of a crime. Does getting cut off in traffic count?

Come on now, you know better than that. Let’s stick to the topic and try to keep the conversation On a higher level

The OP said we should be giving out reparations. But he had no idea how to go about it. I'm exactly on the topic and trying to be helpful.

No you’re not and we both know it. Grow up

 

[Slade3200]

I mostly ignore him, because the first few things I saw him post were bigoted and asinine. I'm not going to address points made by someone who will ignore every counterpoint anyway.

If he only wants to focus on the negative of black history in the US, that's his problem. The fact remains that blacks in the US are the most prosperous, most educated, and most liberated black people on earth. Few of them could survive in africa in modern times. Rather than embrace the opportunities he has, he wants to convict white americans for all of the slavery on earth, and I'm just sick of hearing about it.


.

He’s a drive by poster. And, yes, there’s no place on earth that treats minorities as well as America.

You don’t stand with his grievances because he is a drive by poster? That’s your answer? What exactly does that mean

He has nothing to complain about. I reject the notion that he’s being held down because of his skin color.

How in the world could you know what his experiences have been and what he has to complain or not complain about?

I not talking about what he perceives as grievances that he has on a personal level, he’s constantly telling us blacks in general are being held down in this country because of white racism. I reject that. Also he’s patently dishonest, so if he were to talk about his personal mistreatment, I would take that with a mountain of salt.

Well he is black in American and you are not, so perhaps you should listen a little better. His opinions are shaped from his reality and yours from yours. I’d think he has a better/different understanding of racial issues in America than you. You should seek better understanding of that which you have not been exposed to before passing judgement of its validity