Zone1 If racism is the reason for blacks being poor, why are most blacks middle class and up?

[Lisa558]

The JEWS did it why can’t you?

This is where your premise of racism kicks in.
While there was prejudice against Jews, Christians would still go to Jewish Doctors and hire Jews

In THIS Country, Jews were not subjected to the systematic racism that blacks were

Not so in my family’s experience. There was such an unstated edict after WWII not to hire Jews - even a nice, quiet Jewish boy who was top in his engineering class - that many, including my dad and two of his best friends, had to leave their families at age 22 and move to DC to take a job with the fed government, because word got out the fed was willing to hire Jews.

And even though they might not have experienced Jim Crow racism (not all blacks did, either), they experienced the murders of their a European families for being Jews.

This insistence among liberals to continue to blame other people for the problems occurring among a minority of blacks will just build unjustified anger and not do a blessed thing to help solve the problem. The problem is solved when people credit those who make the right choices and take responsibility for their own actions.

 

[Lisa558]

Rinse/Repeat

You double down on a false premise

No, I’m not. Nobody has answered the question: the question is not why are some blacks poor. The question is: why are most blacks NOT poor if racism is to blame for blacks who ARE poor?

The reason you can’t answer is because it would show the falsity of your premise. The reason most blacks are living lower-middle to middle-class lives, with some quite affluent, is because they made the right choices in life.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The lack of steady employment leads to a breakdown of families

That is simply not true.
What leads to the breakdown of families is replacing the need of employment with hand outs.
When your choice is sit on your ass all day and get government money for doing nothing, or stay married and have to get a job and go to work everyday - all too many regardless of race choose the former

 

[rightwinger]

That is simply not true.
What leads to the breakdown of families is replacing the need of employment with hand outs.
When your choice is sit on your ass all day and get government money for doing nothing, or stay married and have to get a job and go to work everyday - all too many regardless of race choose the former

You have the tail wagging the dog

Blacks moved to the cities for jobs. Good paying jobs that they could buy homes and raise families

When those jobs left, blacks were left in an economic wasteland.
Welfare came in to ease their poverty…..It did not cause it

 

[rightwinger]

No, I’m not. Nobody has answered the question: the question is not why are some blacks poor. The question is: why are most blacks NOT poor if racism is to blame for blacks who ARE poor?

The reason you can’t answer is because it would show the falsity of your premise. The reason most blacks are living lower-middle to middle-class lives, with some quite affluent, is because they made the right choices in life.

Rinse/Repeat

You still don’t get you are arguing with yourself. Nobody buys your premise

 

[Lisa558]

Rinse/Repeat

You still don’t get you are arguing with yourself. Nobody buys your premise

A lot of people agree with me. Don’t make the mistake that so many arrogant liberals do: that everyone agrees with them, except for an outlier or two.

And the liberals are still refusing to answer the question: how come most blacks are NOT poor if racism is the reason some blacks ARE poor?

 

[rightwinger]

And the liberals are still refusing to answer the question: how come most blacks are NOT poor if racism is the reason some blacks ARE poor?

Why, because many blacks have escaped poverty and moved to the middle class. Doesn’t mean there is no racism, just that it can be overcome

A percentage of blacks have not been able to escape poverty just like many whites do not escape poverty

But you don’t start threads mocking poor whites

 

[Lisa558]

Why, because many blacks have escaped poverty and moved to the middle class. Doesn’t mean there is no racism, just that it can be overcome

The question is how? What is different about these blacks, who, after all, represent the majority of most blacks.

A percentage of blacks have not been able to escape poverty just like many whites do not escape poverty

So why are these blacks not able to escape poverty when most of them have?

But you don’t start threads mocking poor whites

First, I’m not “mocking.” That’s just the default position of liberals calling racist all time.

And second, I don’t make threads calling out poor whites because poor whites are not blaming racism.

You liberals will say ANYTHING to avoid the obvious: that most blacks aren’t poor because they made good choices in life, and took responsibility for their actions - while a slim minority, enabled by leftists, make poor choices and blame someone else (whites)

 

[iamwhatiseem]

You have the tail wagging the dog

Blacks moved to the cities for jobs. Good paying jobs that they could buy homes and raise families

When those jobs left, blacks were left in an economic wasteland.
Welfare came in to ease their poverty…..It did not cause it

You left out a large part of that truth.
We have went down this road repeatedly.
When city leaders between the 1950s - 1980s built housing projects away from everything, pack them in like sardines, give them just enough money to survive... and not have to work.... THAT is what created today's self defeating black culture. PERIOD.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

….and you are still not answering the question of the OP:

If racism is why blacks are poor, why then are 80% of blacks NOT poor?

Your opinions have no value on THIS topic, especially when they are incorrect.

If you ask a man "Have you stopped beating your wife", demanding only a yes or no answer, it's possible that neither answer is the correct one. If he answers no then one can surmise he's "still" beating her or if he answers "yes" then one can draw the conclusion that while he may not be beating her now he previously had been. If the man doesn't beat his wife, has never beat her or doesn't even have a wife then NEITHER answer is the correct one.

That's what your question is like.

 

[Lisa558]

Your opinions have no value on THIS topic, especially when they are incorrect.

If you ask a man "Have you stopped beating your wife", demanding only a yes or no answer, it's possible that neither answer is the correct one. If he answers no then one can surmise he's "still" beating her or if he answers "yes" then one can draw the conclusion that while he may not be beating her now he previously had been. If the man doesn't beat his wife, has never beat her or doesn't even have a wife then NEITHER answer is the correct one.

That's what your question is.

All a long way of refusing to answer the question: If racism is why a minority of blacks are poor, then how is it that the majority of blacks have been successful in life?

And that’s because the answer is: the majority of blacks made wise choices, and were responsible for their actions.

 

[AZrailwhale]

No, the primary reason is that they live in impoverished areas.

The lack of steady employment leads to a breakdown of families

Then they should move. That's what I did. I moved from a very bad neighborhood, to a better one, then an even better one to finally a good one when I bought my second house. When I bought my first house, I had a minimum ninety-minute commute ONE WAY. I was willing to make the sacrifice to move my family to a decent neighborhood. Our rental was two blocks on streets and one block as the crow flies from a police station and we were having drive-by shootings on our block. Living in a bad neighborhood is no excuse for lack of success.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The JEWS did it why can’t you?

This is where your premise of racism kicks in.
While there was prejudice against Jews, Christians would still go to Jewish Doctors and hire Jews

In THIS Country, Jews were not subjected to the systematic racism that blacks were

Not just the Jews, everybody did it. Blacks are doing it today in large numbers. At one time there were signs in businesses, "no dogs or Irish allowed", same for the Chinese and Japanese. Same for the Italians and Eastern Europeans.

 

[AZrailwhale]

That is simply not true.
What leads to the breakdown of families is replacing the need of employment with hand outs.
When your choice is sit on your ass all day and get government money for doing nothing, or stay married and have to get a job and go to work everyday - all too many regardless of race choose the former

Before FDR instituted the welfare state and LBJ made it worse, all people had a simple choice: work or starve. Private charities would help worthy people down on their luck, but if you were able bodied and just refused to work, they wouldn't waste resources on you. When the choice is as simple as work or starve, you work.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

None of that matters TODAY, or in the last two generations, even though you keep trying to make excuses for blacks who make poor choices.

So what if the Jews who escaped Jewish persecution in Europe haven’t even been here 100 years? That makes my point for me! One generation after arriving, and in the midst of antisemitism, they went from abject poverty to affluence. And this was done in spite of the 1950s anti-Jew quotas at colleges - the OPPOSITE of the pro-black quotas at colleges for two generations.

As far as whining, YOU are the one whining - that “oooh….blacks are poor because racism.” Man up and face the truth that blacks, with the right choices, make it to the middle class - and most have done so.

Quit lying Lisa, I have never said that, those are YOUR words.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

A lot of people agree with me.

A lot of people think Donald Trump can do no wrong. The "a lot of people agree with me" argument doesn't work when you all believe something that's not true, which pretty much sums up the position of white supremacists in a nutshell.

The Jewish people are not black. The Jewish people were not subjected to the same pains and penalties that the black people in America have been subjected to, then and now and for 300 years LONGER than what the Jewish people suffered.

Quit trying to make this a contest of "my people suffered more than your people" because the Jewish people in America are not similarly situation to the Black people in America BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT BLACK.

If you are unable to grasp this simple concept then I guess you will be stuck in ignorance and frustration forever.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

No, I’m not. Nobody has answered the question: the question is not why are some blacks poor. The question is: why are most blacks NOT poor if racism is to blame for blacks who ARE poor?

The reason you can’t answer is because it would show the falsity of your premise. The reason most blacks are living lower-middle to middle-class lives, with some quite affluent, is because they made the right choices in life.

The term "Hobson's choice" is often used to mean an illusion of choice, but it is not a choice between two equivalent options, which is a Morton's fork, nor is it a choice between two undesirable options, which is a dilemma. Hobson's choice is one between something or nothing.

John Stuart Mill, in his book Considerations on Representative Government, refers to Hobson's choice:

When the individuals composing the majority would no longer be reduced to Hobson's choice, of either voting for the person brought forward by their local leaders, or not voting at all.[6]

In another of his books, The Subjection of Women, Mill discusses marriage:

Those who attempt to force women into marriage by closing all other doors against them, lay themselves open to a similar retort. If they mean what they say, their opinion must evidently be, that men do not render the married condition so desirable to women, as to induce them to accept it for its own recommendations. It is not a sign of one's thinking the boon one offers very attractive, when one allows only Hobson's choice, 'that or none'.... And if men are determined that the law of marriage shall be a law of despotism, they are quite right in point of mere policy, in leaving to women only Hobson's choice. But, in that case, all that has been done in the modern world to relax the chain on the minds of women, has been a mistake. They should have never been allowed to receive a literary education.[7]

A Hobson's choice is different from:

• Dilemma: a choice between two or more options, none of which are attractive.
• False dilemma: only certain choices are considered, when in fact there are others.
• Catch-22: a logical paradox arising from a situation in which an individual needs something that can only be acquired by not being in that very situation.
• Morton's fork, and a double bind: choices yield equivalent and, often, undesirable results.
• Blackmail and extortion: the choice between paying money (or some non-monetary good or deed) or risk suffering an unpleasant action.

 

[Coyote]

You could make a similar argument about whites who live in Appalachia or Mississippi

Why do they struggle in poverty for generation after generation?

The best answer seems to be that they live in an economic wasteland and either lack the resources to move or stay because of long term cultural or family connections

It’s also noteworthy that their poverty is more than double that of whites.

 

[Coyote]

I’ve asked this question within another thread, and repeatedly, but people who are blaming racism for blacks in poverty won’t answer, so I thought to make it a separate thread.

For background, I blame - primarily - the high out-of-wedlock birth rate (currently 72%), as it is well established that it correlates with poverty, and thus have suggested that blacks could improve the stats by reducing the OOW birthrate and staying in school. (For this, of course, I have been called every evil name in the book - “evil” being one of them - but mostly racist, racist, racist.)

My question remains: if blacks who remain mired in poverty are there due to racism, how do you explain that most blacks, like most whites, are not? (In my particular area, for example, most blacks are well-educated professionals, many living in McMansions.) Please, be honest with your answers, and do not be afraid to credit middle-class blacks with making good choices.

(The chart below shows that the percentage of blacks in poverty, while higher than other groups, is 19.5%. That means more than 80% of blacks are NOT in poverty. Again, how could such a large majority of blacks move beyond poverty if racism keeps them down?)

Poverty rate by race and ethnicity U.S. 2023 | Statista

In 2023, 17.9 percent of Black people living in the United States were living below the poverty line, compared to 7.7 percent of white people.

www.statista.com

If 80% live above the poverty line, and the out of wedlock birth rate is 72%, then clearly it can’t be that big a factor.

 

[MizMolly]

Lisa you obviously don't understand how racism works and I don't believe you're actually interested in learning or understanding how it does work because you are still trying to get an answer to a question that is not true.

You're stating as fact "racism is the reason a minority of blacks are [in poverty]". That is a claim that YOU'VE made (and keep repeating), no one else has stated this so why would you expect anyone to try to answer it if you can't or won't correct your initial premise.

Try rewording it.

According to IM2 all woes of black people are caused by racism.