I'm reading that Trump can build a wall with the money earmarked for military...

[bendog]

That's it then. He can't take money earmarked for the military, pay increase or otherwise, and use it to supplement the wall. That was the point.

How many more times?....the Military spending is clearly marked "discretionary"....look up the word.

That's not what discretionary and mandatory mean. Discretionary just means congress may, or may not, pass a bill to spend x dollars on x in a given year ... or over several years. Defense spending comes in there. Congress passed the omnibus spending bill funding a pay increase and various ships, aircraft, vehicles, and military operations in various places around the world. Congress didn't have to do that, but it did.

Here's What the Military Gets in $1.3 Trillion Omnibus Spending Bill

There's also spending on entitlement programs, like soc sec medicare Medicaid etc. That is mandated spending because congress passed laws, and potuses signed them, in years past that set out criteria for individuals to be eligible for govt largesse, and anyone meeting the criteria has to get the largesse or they can sue to force the gummit to pay. Mandatory spending and interest on the debt are non-negotiable, unless congress votes to change entitlement programs or we default on the debt

The legality, or illegality, of Trump's latest tweets about spending military spending for his wall comes down to he cannot unilaterally decide to not spend money allocated to a specific provision now that he signed the bill and made a law. That is, he can't decide to not make the new aircraft carrier and spend the money on the wall.

On the other hand, the Army Corp of Engineers is funded and it's missions are not specifically set forth in the law. The executive branch controls how troops are deployed. Although, if we didn't have enough Army engineers in Syria.... it wouldn't be as good.

If Trump builds the wall with discretionary military spending, the Democrats will have a hard time stopping that. Obama repeatedly ignored spending rules as well as executive privledge rules and Republicans couldn't stop him

Yeah, Trump is not powerless to direct some military spending. He'll be sued if he starts buying steel and concrete with money not allocated to steel and concrete, but most likely there's steel and concrete money in there. He cannot decide to not buy some airplanes though.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I am reading this from so many on twitter They suggest as it is an omnibus, it is ongoign resolution and only "recommended" to be spent a particular way, but the president has leeway. They said Oama did this very thing when he was president.

So, is this true? Even if it isn't true per se, what is stopping Trump from rightfully deeming the border issue a National Security issue, as he did with tariffs and just build it with the funds? Who can stop him from making this decision?

The wall clearly provides national defense from a million criminals invading us a year

We have a military for that. They can use the target practice, let them do what they are paid to do


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You've told me your plan the military should chase 3,000 criminals around the desert every night. But that doesn't contradict this. The wall would make that task a lot easier. It's not military or wall, it's military and the wall is part of that.

You'd burn through $20 billion several times a year with your stupid plan

This might be a shock to you, but they do not only cross at night. My first day on the job a MCAS Yuma we caught 9 illegals hiding in the desert in the middle of the day.

Besides, after we light them up and take out a couple days worth the rest will think twice about giving it a try. Right now the only consequence is getting caught and having the border patrol give them water.

Within a week the flow will slow to a trickle


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Fair enough. You don't just want the military to chase 3,000 people around the desert every night, you want them to do it all day long. And since about half get through, it's actually 6,000 people you want the military to chase around the desert as you put it all day and all night.

And what does "light them up" mean that is going to reduce illegal alien crossings to "a trickle?"

I guess you have never seen what the door gunner on a Huey can do. Or an Appachee or a AV8 or how about a AC-130.

Trump said the people crossing the border are enemy combatants. Thus the military is free to kill them all


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[kaz]

That's it then. He can't take money earmarked for the military, pay increase or otherwise, and use it to supplement the wall. That was the point.

How many more times?....the Military spending is clearly marked "discretionary"....look up the word.

That's not what discretionary and mandatory mean. Discretionary just means congress may, or may not, pass a bill to spend x dollars on x in a given year ... or over several years. Defense spending comes in there. Congress passed the omnibus spending bill funding a pay increase and various ships, aircraft, vehicles, and military operations in various places around the world. Congress didn't have to do that, but it did.

Here's What the Military Gets in $1.3 Trillion Omnibus Spending Bill

There's also spending on entitlement programs, like soc sec medicare Medicaid etc. That is mandated spending because congress passed laws, and potuses signed them, in years past that set out criteria for individuals to be eligible for govt largesse, and anyone meeting the criteria has to get the largesse or they can sue to force the gummit to pay. Mandatory spending and interest on the debt are non-negotiable, unless congress votes to change entitlement programs or we default on the debt

The legality, or illegality, of Trump's latest tweets about spending military spending for his wall comes down to he cannot unilaterally decide to not spend money allocated to a specific provision now that he signed the bill and made a law. That is, he can't decide to not make the new aircraft carrier and spend the money on the wall.

On the other hand, the Army Corp of Engineers is funded and it's missions are not specifically set forth in the law. The executive branch controls how troops are deployed. Although, if we didn't have enough Army engineers in Syria.... it wouldn't be as good.

If Trump builds the wall with discretionary military spending, the Democrats will have a hard time stopping that. Obama repeatedly ignored spending rules as well as executive privledge rules and Republicans couldn't stop him

Yeah, Trump is not powerless to direct some military spending. He'll be sued if he starts buying steel and concrete with money not allocated to steel and concrete, but most likely there's steel and concrete money in there. He cannot decide to not buy some airplanes though.

True, but we're talking $20 billion out of almost $800 billion, I think the other $780 can buy some airplanes

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I am a Libertarian so my party has never been in power and won't be for some time to come.

My plan to control the southern border is better than a stupid fuckign wall and saves the US money vice spending it.

But Trump wants his Mt Rushmore and you sheep are dying to give it to him.

What's your plan ? And "control" it how ?

Simple 3 step plan.

Step 1. Go after companies the hire illegals, and go after them hard. A company declaring bankruptcy trying to pay the fine for using illegals would send a good message to other companies. This takes away the main reason people sneak into our country.

Step 2. Develop an actual real guest worker program and allow companies to legally bring in cheap labor. If they will do it cheaper than an American, then let the companies hire them.

Step 3. We have roughly 70,000 troops in Europe, bring home at least half of them, if not more and station them along the southern border. Then let them patrol and control it. We have a military to defend our nation, not Europe.

Step 1 would likely be overturned by the courts as cruel and unusual punishment. The punishment for a crime has got to be in liner with the offense committed.

Step 3 is illegal. The Posse Comitatus Act does not allow the military to act as law enforcement agents.

NEGATIVE wetback lover.
The Posse Comitatus Act simply prohibits federal authorities from acting on behalf of state and local law enforcement and from enforcing domestic policy.
You must have forgot that immigration is a federal matter?

It is a Federal matter, thus the Federal military should deal with it.

Border control is only law enforcement in the eyes of a liberal


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[kaz]

The wall clearly provides national defense from a million criminals invading us a year

We have a military for that. They can use the target practice, let them do what they are paid to do


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

You've told me your plan the military should chase 3,000 criminals around the desert every night. But that doesn't contradict this. The wall would make that task a lot easier. It's not military or wall, it's military and the wall is part of that.

You'd burn through $20 billion several times a year with your stupid plan

This might be a shock to you, but they do not only cross at night. My first day on the job a MCAS Yuma we caught 9 illegals hiding in the desert in the middle of the day.

Besides, after we light them up and take out a couple days worth the rest will think twice about giving it a try. Right now the only consequence is getting caught and having the border patrol give them water.

Within a week the flow will slow to a trickle


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Fair enough. You don't just want the military to chase 3,000 people around the desert every night, you want them to do it all day long. And since about half get through, it's actually 6,000 people you want the military to chase around the desert as you put it all day and all night.

And what does "light them up" mean that is going to reduce illegal alien crossings to "a trickle?"

I guess you have never seen what the door gunner on a Huey can do. Or an Appachee or a AV8 or how about a AC-130.

Trump said the people crossing the border are enemy combatants. Thus the military is free to kill them all


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Well, apparently I'm a lot smarter than you. The problem wasn't I couldn't think of one thing you meant by that, the problem was I could think of 40 and wasn't sure which one you meant.

And that's not going to happen, and you know it's not going to happen. So you work to replace the wall with something that won't happen knowing then you get to keep the million Democrat voters a year streaming through the open border.

You already proved that when you advocated blowing up the wall if it's built

 

[kaz]

I am a Libertarian so my party has never been in power and won't be for some time to come.

My plan to control the southern border is better than a stupid fuckign wall and saves the US money vice spending it.

But Trump wants his Mt Rushmore and you sheep are dying to give it to him.

What's your plan ? And "control" it how ?

Simple 3 step plan.

Step 1. Go after companies the hire illegals, and go after them hard. A company declaring bankruptcy trying to pay the fine for using illegals would send a good message to other companies. This takes away the main reason people sneak into our country.

Step 2. Develop an actual real guest worker program and allow companies to legally bring in cheap labor. If they will do it cheaper than an American, then let the companies hire them.

Step 3. We have roughly 70,000 troops in Europe, bring home at least half of them, if not more and station them along the southern border. Then let them patrol and control it. We have a military to defend our nation, not Europe.

Step 1 would likely be overturned by the courts as cruel and unusual punishment. The punishment for a crime has got to be in liner with the offense committed.

Step 3 is illegal. The Posse Comitatus Act does not allow the military to act as law enforcement agents.

NEGATIVE wetback lover.
The Posse Comitatus Act simply prohibits federal authorities from acting on behalf of state and local law enforcement and from enforcing domestic policy.
You must have forgot that immigration is a federal matter?

It is a Federal matter, thus the Federal military should deal with it.

Border control is only law enforcement in the eyes of a liberal


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Building a wall is not a contradiction from it being a military matter. The military needs to use any means necessary. You seem to be the only one in the discussion who doesn't grasp that

 

[Tehon]

How much was earmarked for the wall?

$1.6billion

That's it then. He can't take money earmarked for the military, pay increase or otherwise, and use it to supplement the wall. That was the point.

That money is earmarked for defense spending....some for construction. National Security. What could improve national security more than a wall?

Read the omnibus bill.

The money appropriated for defense isn't part of a general fund. Definite portions are designated for specific purposes.

He didn't say "general fund," he said "defense spending"

He seems to be treating it as such.

 

[bendog]

That's it then. He can't take money earmarked for the military, pay increase or otherwise, and use it to supplement the wall. That was the point.

How many more times?....the Military spending is clearly marked "discretionary"....look up the word.

That's not what discretionary and mandatory mean. Discretionary just means congress may, or may not, pass a bill to spend x dollars on x in a given year ... or over several years. Defense spending comes in there. Congress passed the omnibus spending bill funding a pay increase and various ships, aircraft, vehicles, and military operations in various places around the world. Congress didn't have to do that, but it did.

Here's What the Military Gets in $1.3 Trillion Omnibus Spending Bill

There's also spending on entitlement programs, like soc sec medicare Medicaid etc. That is mandated spending because congress passed laws, and potuses signed them, in years past that set out criteria for individuals to be eligible for govt largesse, and anyone meeting the criteria has to get the largesse or they can sue to force the gummit to pay. Mandatory spending and interest on the debt are non-negotiable, unless congress votes to change entitlement programs or we default on the debt

The legality, or illegality, of Trump's latest tweets about spending military spending for his wall comes down to he cannot unilaterally decide to not spend money allocated to a specific provision now that he signed the bill and made a law. That is, he can't decide to not make the new aircraft carrier and spend the money on the wall.

On the other hand, the Army Corp of Engineers is funded and it's missions are not specifically set forth in the law. The executive branch controls how troops are deployed. Although, if we didn't have enough Army engineers in Syria.... it wouldn't be as good.

If Trump builds the wall with discretionary military spending, the Democrats will have a hard time stopping that. Obama repeatedly ignored spending rules as well as executive privledge rules and Republicans couldn't stop him

Yeah, Trump is not powerless to direct some military spending. He'll be sued if he starts buying steel and concrete with money not allocated to steel and concrete, but most likely there's steel and concrete money in there. He cannot decide to not buy some airplanes though.

True, but we're talking $20 billion out of almost $800 billion, I think the other $780 can buy some airplanes

We'll see. He's generally all hot air and flip flops. LEGALLY, I think he can probably use military engineers to do some stuff, but he'll be limited. And using combat troops to build shit ... not likely. And even then, there are ownership of land, environmental regulations ........ I think the 1.5 billion or whatever is about all that physically can be spent in a year.

 

[kaz]

$1.6billion

That's it then. He can't take money earmarked for the military, pay increase or otherwise, and use it to supplement the wall. That was the point.

That money is earmarked for defense spending....some for construction. National Security. What could improve national security more than a wall?

Read the omnibus bill.

The money appropriated for defense isn't part of a general fund. Definite portions are designated for specific purposes.

He didn't say "general fund," he said "defense spending"

He seems to be treating it as such.

I only saw him advocating using general military funds for securing our border. I think you're hallucinating the part he wants it to use it for non-military purposes

 

[S.J.]

You think I am a "lefty" because unlike you I do not kiss Trumps ass.

No, I think you're a lefty because you take the liberal position on nearly every issue.

 

[jc456]

$1.6billion

That's it then. He can't take money earmarked for the military, pay increase or otherwise, and use it to supplement the wall. That was the point.

That money is earmarked for defense spending....some for construction. National Security. What could improve national security more than a wall?

Read the omnibus bill.

The money appropriated for defense isn't part of a general fund. Definite portions are designated for specific purposes.

well post up those lines from the bill.

Have at it.

www.documentcloud.org/documents/4417591-FY-2018-Omnibus.html#document/p1

so you can't. thanks.

 

[kaz]

How many more times?....the Military spending is clearly marked "discretionary"....look up the word.

That's not what discretionary and mandatory mean. Discretionary just means congress may, or may not, pass a bill to spend x dollars on x in a given year ... or over several years. Defense spending comes in there. Congress passed the omnibus spending bill funding a pay increase and various ships, aircraft, vehicles, and military operations in various places around the world. Congress didn't have to do that, but it did.

Here's What the Military Gets in $1.3 Trillion Omnibus Spending Bill

There's also spending on entitlement programs, like soc sec medicare Medicaid etc. That is mandated spending because congress passed laws, and potuses signed them, in years past that set out criteria for individuals to be eligible for govt largesse, and anyone meeting the criteria has to get the largesse or they can sue to force the gummit to pay. Mandatory spending and interest on the debt are non-negotiable, unless congress votes to change entitlement programs or we default on the debt

The legality, or illegality, of Trump's latest tweets about spending military spending for his wall comes down to he cannot unilaterally decide to not spend money allocated to a specific provision now that he signed the bill and made a law. That is, he can't decide to not make the new aircraft carrier and spend the money on the wall.

On the other hand, the Army Corp of Engineers is funded and it's missions are not specifically set forth in the law. The executive branch controls how troops are deployed. Although, if we didn't have enough Army engineers in Syria.... it wouldn't be as good.

If Trump builds the wall with discretionary military spending, the Democrats will have a hard time stopping that. Obama repeatedly ignored spending rules as well as executive privledge rules and Republicans couldn't stop him

Yeah, Trump is not powerless to direct some military spending. He'll be sued if he starts buying steel and concrete with money not allocated to steel and concrete, but most likely there's steel and concrete money in there. He cannot decide to not buy some airplanes though.

True, but we're talking $20 billion out of almost $800 billion, I think the other $780 can buy some airplanes

We'll see. He's generally all hot air and flip flops. LEGALLY, I think he can probably use military engineers to do some stuff, but he'll be limited. And using combat troops to build shit ... not likely. And even then, there are ownership of land, environmental regulations ........ I think the 1.5 billion or whatever is about all that physically can be spent in a year.

Trump's a populist. Just like Bill Clinton. You need to stop reacting to every speech, it's pointless. He's not been indecisive once he goes to implementing policy

 

[Wry Catcher]

I am reading this from so many on twitter They suggest as it is an omnibus, it is ongoign resolution and only "recommended" to be spent a particular way, but the president has leeway. They said Oama did this very thing when he was president.

So, is this true? Even if it isn't true per se, what is stopping Trump from rightfully deeming the border issue a National Security issue, as he did with tariffs and just build it with the funds? Who can stop him from making this decision?

Probably nothing legally, politically it would be foolish so I expect Trump will do it. Of course a wall will fail - but it was a campaign promise and as we all know - but some choose to forget - every decision made by trump beings on the answer to this seminal question: How will this decision effect ME?

 

[Tom Horn]

That's not what discretionary and mandatory mean. Discretionary just means congress may, or may not, pass a bill to spend x dollars on x in a given year ... or over several years. Defense spending comes in there. Congress passed the omnibus spending bill funding a pay increase and various ships, aircraft, vehicles, and military operations in various places around the world. Congress didn't have to do that, but it did.

Nope.....the DOD told Congress what it would spend the funding on if approved...but it's DISCRETIONARY...they can change their mind on orders from the CIC. Your link, although a good one, was written before the bill passed so they had no way of knowing if those requests would be honored. Will they decide to give $25B for the Wall? No, but they can certainly allocate $5B for it and there's not a damn thing Chuck U. Schumer and the rest of the commiecrats can do about it other than lawsuits which will be summarily dismissed.

 

[Tehon]

That's it then. He can't take money earmarked for the military, pay increase or otherwise, and use it to supplement the wall. That was the point.

That money is earmarked for defense spending....some for construction. National Security. What could improve national security more than a wall?

Read the omnibus bill.

The money appropriated for defense isn't part of a general fund. Definite portions are designated for specific purposes.

He didn't say "general fund," he said "defense spending"

He seems to be treating it as such.

I only saw him advocating using general military funds for securing our border. I think you're hallucinating the part he wants it to use it for non-military purposes

Which general military funds?

 

[shockedcanadian]

I am reading this from so many on twitter They suggest as it is an omnibus, it is ongoign resolution and only "recommended" to be spent a particular way, but the president has leeway. They said Oama did this very thing when he was president.

So, is this true? Even if it isn't true per se, what is stopping Trump from rightfully deeming the border issue a National Security issue, as he did with tariffs and just build it with the funds? Who can stop him from making this decision?

Probably nothing legally, politically it would be foolish so I expect Trump will do it. Of course a wall will fail - but it was a campaign promise and as we all know - but some choose to forget - every decision made by trump beings on the answer to this seminal question: How will this decision effect ME?

How is it about him, when he won on the promises? It's about America.

How come there are so many who defy Trumps campaign promises, but they cannot support the status quo? How many more years was America going to be exploited by the world before it went belly up? If you don't seek som fairness, you sell out your nation.

Illegal immigration is one such issue that has been abused for too long. A wall will fix it quickly.

 

[S.J.]

But, but, but....
Isn't Mexico paying for this Wall?

Of course they're not gonna just write a check up front for it, idiot. They'll pay for it in a number of other ways though.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I am reading this from so many on twitter They suggest as it is an omnibus, it is ongoign resolution and only "recommended" to be spent a particular way, but the president has leeway. They said Oama did this very thing when he was president.

So, is this true? Even if it isn't true per se, what is stopping Trump from rightfully deeming the border issue a National Security issue, as he did with tariffs and just build it with the funds? Who can stop him from making this decision?

Probably nothing legally, politically it would be foolish so I expect Trump will do it. Of course a wall will fail - but it was a campaign promise and as we all know - but some choose to forget - every decision made by trump beings on the answer to this seminal question: How will this decision effect ME?

How is it about him, when he won on the promises? It's about America.

How come there are so many who defy Trumps campaign promises, but they cannot support the status quo? How many more years was America going to be exploited by the world before it went belly up? If you don't seek som fairness, you sell out your nation.

Illegal immigration is one such issue that has been abused for too long. A wall will fix it quickly.

If you follow current events closely, as I do, you cannot deny that President trump flips and flops more than a Tuna on the deck of a fishing trawler.

Border security is an issue, but the labor which crosses to work is not the major threat. ISIS and other terrorists can cross the border, and when here easily obtain weapons, rent trucks and create chaos and carnage.

Do you support a wall between Canada and the US? Do we need a burm protecting our coastline (It would ruin our surfing industry)?

 

[Wry Catcher]

But, but, but....
Isn't Mexico paying for this Wall?

Of course they're not gonna just write a check up front for it, idiot. They'll pay for it in a number of other ways though.

LOL, a post by a very very biddable ^^^ person.

 

[bendog]

That money is earmarked for defense spending....some for construction. National Security. What could improve national security more than a wall?

Read the omnibus bill.

The money appropriated for defense isn't part of a general fund. Definite portions are designated for specific purposes.

He didn't say "general fund," he said "defense spending"

He seems to be treating it as such.

I only saw him advocating using general military funds for securing our border. I think you're hallucinating the part he wants it to use it for non-military purposes

Which general military funds?

https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/FY18-OMNI-DEFENSE-SUM.pdf

That's the thing. Trump cannot use money appropriated in a bill, that he signed, for anything but what's its appropriated for, and interestingly imo, a potus actually has to spend the money once he/she signed the bill. But Trump can direct Mattis on how to deploy various troops and construction equip. Still, Trump always reverses course and he's just hot air. And, there just is a limit of how much construction stuff the military has, where its already going, and even whether they legally can get to ground and start building.

There was no reason to allocate all the money for a wall now because it CAN'T BE SPENT YET EVEN THEY BUILD A WALL AND THEY WON'T. Trump will be dead before the lawyers even get the necessary easements and environmental signoffs. It was always a political stunt aimed at the gullible. And his recent tweets were just more of the same. But the tweets elicited his desired results from both the Trumpbots and the My Hair is on Fire brigades.