in a sociolgy class last year, I said.

[IlarMeilyr]

Taxes are voluntary. Pretty much everything is. You may not like the consequences of your actions but not paying taxes if definitely voluntary.

^ In your lolberal universe where words have no fixed (or logical) meaning, maybe.

But in the universe inhabited by actual people and premised on logic, nothing compelled is voluntary.

By the way, noting that the payment of taxes is involuntary is not the same thing as opposition to all taxation. But let's call it what it is and stop pretending (as you liberals love to do) that it is something other than what it is.

It is an obligation that is enforced by law. Thus, it is not "voluntary."

Your post only makes sense if I had not looked up and supplied the definition of the word voluntary. Your refusal to except the meaning as exercise of free will only tells me you commonly allow people to take your free will from you. No one can make you do anything unless they physically force you or you give away your free will. Understanding this will make you take responsibility for your actions and not blame anyone else for the decisions you make.

Your post makes no sense whatsoever.

Quoting a definition is of no value if you refuse to give the words in the definition their actual meaning.

And your "argument" is all of the following. It is petty, juvenile and completely unpersuasive.

"Put your head into that noose or I will shoot this little child."

Under your absurd and meaningless daffynition of "voluntary," you'd say that the guy put his head into the noose voluntarily.

He didn't of course. He made a highly unpalatable choice from a set of terrible choices, the ultimate choice having been coerced by the threat to the child.

Discussion with one as simple-minded and fundamentally dishonest as you are is pretty much pointless.

 

[holston]

I disagree. Just because its illegal has nothing to do with it being voluntary or not. People voluntarily commit crimes all the time.

Do they voluntarily go to jail?

By the way, what's this stuff?

""Being enlightened is no longer enough, you must apply. Being willing is no longer acceptable, you must do."

"The essence of power is the ability to define someone's reality and make them live according to that definition as if it is a definition of their own choosing."
--Wade Nobles

You sound like the kind of person who likes to twist people's arms. Is that true?

 

[norwegen]

Engaging Asclepias is a waste of keystrokes, Folks. I don't recommend it.

 

[holston]

Engaging Asclepias is a waste of keystrokes, Folks. I don't recommend it.

But it's so much fun.

Using someone like him makes the the other libs look so much like boobs. And it's so easy too!

 

[Uncensored2008]

Well then son, you must go to class with imbeciles.

He takes a class with you and RDean????

 

[Asclepias]

^ In your lolberal universe where words have no fixed (or logical) meaning, maybe.

But in the universe inhabited by actual people and premised on logic, nothing compelled is voluntary.

By the way, noting that the payment of taxes is involuntary is not the same thing as opposition to all taxation. But let's call it what it is and stop pretending (as you liberals love to do) that it is something other than what it is.

It is an obligation that is enforced by law. Thus, it is not "voluntary."

Your post only makes sense if I had not looked up and supplied the definition of the word voluntary. Your refusal to except the meaning as exercise of free will only tells me you commonly allow people to take your free will from you. No one can make you do anything unless they physically force you or you give away your free will. Understanding this will make you take responsibility for your actions and not blame anyone else for the decisions you make.

Your post makes no sense whatsoever.

Quoting a definition is of no value if you refuse to give the words in the definition their actual meaning.

And your "argument" is all of the following. It is petty, juvenile and completely unpersuasive.

"Put your head into that noose or I will shoot this little child."

Under your absurd and meaningless daffynition of "voluntary," you'd say that the guy put his head into the noose voluntarily.

He didn't of course. He made a highly unpalatable choice from a set of terrible choices, the ultimate choice having been coerced by the threat to the child.

Discussion with one as simple-minded and fundamentally dishonest as you are is pretty much pointless.

My post makes all the sense in the world. Your failure to accept that only speaks to your mindset. The example you provided is voluntary if the person exercised free will. Your blatant emotion inducing example aside, the choice is to put their head in the noose or not. If they don't want to put their head in the noose to save the child and they ultimately do they just gave up free will. If they pass on putting their head in the noose then they exercised free will. "Coercion" has nothing to do with "voluntary" except to persuade someone to give up their right to exercise free will.

 

[Asclepias]

I disagree. Just because its illegal has nothing to do with it being voluntary or not. People voluntarily commit crimes all the time.

Do they voluntarily go to jail?

By the way, what's this stuff?

""Being enlightened is no longer enough, you must apply. Being willing is no longer acceptable, you must do."

"The essence of power is the ability to define someone's reality and make them live according to that definition as if it is a definition of their own choosing."
--Wade Nobles

You sound like the kind of person who likes to twist people's arms. Is that true?

Yes some people voluntarily go to jail.

That stuff is my signature. What makes you think I like to twist peoples arm?

 

[Asclepias]

Engaging Asclepias is a waste of keystrokes, Folks. I don't recommend it.

I agree. If you dont have a coherent argument then it is a waste of keystrokes because I will certainly expose any fallacies you have in that argument.

 

[boedicca]

"I don't owe you ANYTHING other than to not interfere with you". and "taxes are taken at the point of a gun". All the kids were OUTRAGED, but they couldn't come up with any valid opposition to my points. Cause there AINT any.

It's hard to argue with "Don't Hurt People and Don't Take Their Stuff" as rules to live by.


...Which is why those who wish to do those things cloak their intent behind "you didn't build that" and "one percenter" rhetoric.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Does that mean you are conceding that everything you do is voluntary unless someone is able to physically force you to do it?

Coercion is the threat of force.

You can do better than this.

 

[Asclepias]

Does that mean you are conceding that everything you do is voluntary unless someone is able to physically force you to do it?

Coercion is the threat of force.

You can do better than this.

Threats dont bother me and you are weak minded if they persuade you. However, we were talking about voluntary but nice try.

 

[ScienceRocks]

If you don't like paying taxes = stop using the public services.

Stop sending your kids to public schools
Stop Driving on the public roads
Stop expecting the police to save you
Don't call the fire department
Don't expect a cure for most diseases
Don't listen to the nws
Just don't.

You right wing loons would turn this country into Somalia if you had your way. You're worse then a lot of left wingers.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Engaging Asclepias is a waste of keystrokes, Folks. I don't recommend it.

I agree. If you dont have a coherent argument then it is a waste of keystrokes because I will certainly expose any fallacies you have in that argument.

The only fallacies exposed by you are the ones inherent in your own thinking and arguments. And you are truly too dull minded to grasp them.

Which is why it is a waste of time to try to discuss anything with you. We could talk to a rock wall and have a better chance of having a coherent chat than any attempt to "reason" with a mindless drone lump like you.

Meanwhile, a thing which is voluntary is still not a thing which is the product of coercion. Your inability to see that fact or to admit it does not alter it.

You remain wrong.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

If you don't like paying taxes = stop using the public services.

Stop sending your kids to public schools
Stop Driving on the public roads
Stop expecting the police to save you
Don't call the fire department
Don't expect a cure for most diseases
Don't listen to the nws
Just don't.

You right wing loons would turn this country into Somalia if you had your way. You're worse then a lot of left wingers.

You studiously miss the point.

It is not now and it never was a question of not liking the paying of taxes.

The question under discussion is simply WHETHER or not the payment of taxes in our land is "voluntary." It clearly and obviously is not. The CLAIM that tax payments are "voluntary" requires a complete inability to give words their proper meaning.

As to how much we might dislike paying taxes, that's a different question than whether we should pay some taxes. And that's a different question than HOW MUCH is an appropriate point of taxation? In turn, that latter question is related to the more complex one involving SPENDING.

It's all vastly beyond your limited reach, matty.

 

[Meathead]

Engaging Asclepias is a waste of keystrokes, Folks. I don't recommend it.

Agreed. He has to come to terms with his pathological inferiority complex alone.

Taxation is a necessity and government must have some kind of recourse against those who do not abide. That is understood. However, those who fund government, ie: the taxpayers, must have a greater say than those who profit by its appropriation.

In nature, even parasites understand the killing of their host is their ultimate demise unless they are able to transfer themselves on to another. That is one of the basis of epidemiology. Unchecked, parasites will begin feeding on each other and the final result is the same.

 

[Asclepias]

Engaging Asclepias is a waste of keystrokes, Folks. I don't recommend it.

I agree. If you dont have a coherent argument then it is a waste of keystrokes because I will certainly expose any fallacies you have in that argument.

The only fallacies exposed by you are the ones inherent in your own thinking and arguments. And you are truly too dull minded to grasp them.

Which is why it is a waste of time to try to discuss anything with you. We could talk to a rock wall and have a better chance of having a coherent chat than any attempt to "reason" with a mindless drone lump like you.

Meanwhile, a thing which is voluntary is still not a thing which is the product of coercion. Your inability to see that fact or to admit it does not alter it.

You remain wrong.

You cant ignore the definition of voluntary and actually expect anyone to believe you are credible. Voluntary is the exercise of free will. It does not say that exercise is without consequences. If you can be coerced you are giving up that free will unless someone is physically moving you and even that you can fight. If its threat of punishment then you need to ask yourself which is more important and why you would let someone frighten you out of your free will.

 

[Asclepias]

If you don't like paying taxes = stop using the public services.

Stop sending your kids to public schools
Stop Driving on the public roads
Stop expecting the police to save you
Don't call the fire department
Don't expect a cure for most diseases
Don't listen to the nws
Just don't.

You right wing loons would turn this country into Somalia if you had your way. You're worse then a lot of left wingers.

You studiously miss the point.

It is not now and it never was a question of not liking the paying of taxes.

The question under discussion is simply WHETHER or not the payment of taxes in our land is "voluntary." It clearly and obviously is not. The CLAIM that tax payments are "voluntary" requires a complete inability to give words their proper meaning.

As to how much we might dislike paying taxes, that's a different question than whether we should pay some taxes. And that's a different question than HOW MUCH is an appropriate point of taxation? In turn, that latter question is related to the more complex one involving SPENDING.

It's all vastly beyond your limited reach, matty.

Paying taxes is voluntary. You do so of your own free will. I think the point you are in search of is that taxes are compulsory.

 

[Meathead]

Paying taxes is voluntary. You do so of your own free will. I think the point you are in search of is that taxes are compulsory.

This is why I wouldn't want my son to attend US public schools. For the young and impressionable, ignorance can be contagious. At university, with a proper education he will have learned enough to recognize ignorance.

 

[dblack]

Does that mean you are conceding that everything you do is voluntary unless someone is able to physically force you to do it?

Coercion is the threat of force.

You can do better than this.

I kinda doubt it.

 

[regent]

I wonder if mowing the grass in voluntary or mandatory? How about clearing the dinner table?