In light of the attacks in Paris...shall we discuss gun control?

[OKTexas]

What happened in Paris makes us all want to bomb something or dream of being there to shoot the bad guys! Of course it does! And everytime there's a mass shooting, Second Amendment defenders say "if they had only been carrying...." But I'm still waiting to hear of a time when a mass shooting was stopped or nipped in the bud by an armed citizen. Surely, if that is the answer, it will have happened plenty of times, considering how many mass shootings we've had and how many gun carrying folks live in this country. Why has it never stopped a mass shooting yet?

Google Oregon Mall shooter. Guns are used about 2 million times a year for defensive purposes, in most cases a shot is never fired. A bad guy just knowing you're armed will usually send them scurrying for safer ground, because they are basically cowards.

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

Cars are used many more times than that each day. The largest survey on DGU is 108k per year.

I see you skipped over my disproving your contention that no concealed carrier had stopped a mass shooting. The reason it doesn't happen more often is most mass shooters go to gun free zones.

Now for DGU's, here's the latest numbers available. My B/U

The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”

CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’

The average accepted number of DGU's in about 2 million. If you want to counter theses numbers feel free, but don't use gun grabber propaganda.

There are studies that say 108k and lower. Those numbers are far more likely.

Once again you refuse to admit you were wrong about a concealed carry holder never stopping a mass shooting, why is that?

Why do you keep talking about low ball numbers on DGU's yet you don't provide a source so it can be scrutinized, why is that? And even using your numbers, 108,000 prevented crimes is not insignificant.

 

[Brain357]

What happened in Paris makes us all want to bomb something or dream of being there to shoot the bad guys! Of course it does! And everytime there's a mass shooting, Second Amendment defenders say "if they had only been carrying...." But I'm still waiting to hear of a time when a mass shooting was stopped or nipped in the bud by an armed citizen. Surely, if that is the answer, it will have happened plenty of times, considering how many mass shootings we've had and how many gun carrying folks live in this country. Why has it never stopped a mass shooting yet?

Google Oregon Mall shooter. Guns are used about 2 million times a year for defensive purposes, in most cases a shot is never fired. A bad guy just knowing you're armed will usually send them scurrying for safer ground, because they are basically cowards.

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

Cars are used many more times than that each day. The largest survey on DGU is 108k per year.

I see you skipped over my disproving your contention that no concealed carrier had stopped a mass shooting. The reason it doesn't happen more often is most mass shooters go to gun free zones.

Now for DGU's, here's the latest numbers available. My B/U

The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”

CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’

The average accepted number of DGU's in about 2 million. If you want to counter theses numbers feel free, but don't use gun grabber propaganda.

There are studies that say 108k and lower. Those numbers are far more likely.

Once again you refuse to admit you were wrong about a concealed carry holder never stopping a mass shooting, why is that?

Why do you keep talking about low ball numbers on DGU's yet you don't provide a source so it can be scrutinized, why is that? And even using your numbers, 108,000 prevented crimes is not insignificant.

I never made that claim, different poster.

Ncvs survey.

 

[OKTexas]

I still have visions of hundreds of armed, scared and minimally-trained Parisians with pistols (who want to live) blasting away in the dark at highly-trained suicide terrorists with automatic weapons (who want to die). Anyone else have those visions?

Here's my plan: Give everyone a gun at birth - and make everyone carry a gun outside their home. Everyone! Just think if everyone in Paris had been packing a gun. Imagine everyone blasting away in the dark. It just gives me goosebumps. God bless the gun nutters.

Massive strawman fail. You act like any who carries a gun somehow leaves all common sense at the door, that's not the case. A clear sight picture of an identified threat is required before you squeeze the trigger.

Yeah, in a dark crowded room. Funny...

Evidently there was enough light for the terrorist to identify their targets, citizens would be operating in the same conditions. And the only thing funny is your demonstrated willful ignorance.

Identify their targets? Are you on drugs? Their "targets" were about 1,500 random people.

No I think you lack critical thinking skills due to your peyote addled brain. You have to see'm to shoot'm.

 

[Lakhota]

I still have visions of hundreds of armed, scared and minimally-trained Parisians with pistols (who want to live) blasting away in the dark at highly-trained suicide terrorists with automatic weapons (who want to die). Anyone else have those visions?

Here's my plan: Give everyone a gun at birth - and make everyone carry a gun outside their home. Everyone! Just think if everyone in Paris had been packing a gun. Imagine everyone blasting away in the dark. It just gives me goosebumps. God bless the gun nutters.

Massive strawman fail. You act like any who carries a gun somehow leaves all common sense at the door, that's not the case. A clear sight picture of an identified threat is required before you squeeze the trigger.

Yeah, in a dark crowded room. Funny...

Evidently there was enough light for the terrorist to identify their targets, citizens would be operating in the same conditions. And the only thing funny is your demonstrated willful ignorance.

Identify their targets? Are you on drugs? Their "targets" were about 1,500 random people.

No I think you lack critical thinking skills due to your peyote addled brain. You have to see'm to shoot'm.

The concert hall was packed and there was light coming from the stage. Are you really that dumb?

 

[OKTexas]

And you have no idea how many of the cars on the interstate have guns in them, do you?

We know how many legally carry. Are you suggesting they are shooting while driving?

Did I say anything that would suggest that? In my State anyone who can legally own a gun can carry one concealed in their car, no permit needed.

Then what was the point of your question?

What was your point about the number of cars on the interstate vs. the number of cars that turn into a gun range?

There is a reason car accidents kill more than gun accidents. Cars are used millions of times more.

And fists, feet, knives, clubs and other weapons kills 2/3rds as many as guns, 2.3 per hundred thousand vs.3.7 by gun. Those are homicide rates if you want to get into accidents or suicides, that's a whole different discussion. Considering there are an estimated 300 million guns in private hands that's an astounding low rate, and it's fallen by 43% since 1993, while gun ownership has increased.

BTW there are about 46 million fewer cars than there are guns. Also there are 13.6 vehicle deaths per 100 thousand vs. 3.7 by gun.

 

[OKTexas]

Google Oregon Mall shooter. Guns are used about 2 million times a year for defensive purposes, in most cases a shot is never fired. A bad guy just knowing you're armed will usually send them scurrying for safer ground, because they are basically cowards.

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

Cars are used many more times than that each day. The largest survey on DGU is 108k per year.

I see you skipped over my disproving your contention that no concealed carrier had stopped a mass shooting. The reason it doesn't happen more often is most mass shooters go to gun free zones.

Now for DGU's, here's the latest numbers available. My B/U

The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”

CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’

The average accepted number of DGU's in about 2 million. If you want to counter theses numbers feel free, but don't use gun grabber propaganda.

There are studies that say 108k and lower. Those numbers are far more likely.

Once again you refuse to admit you were wrong about a concealed carry holder never stopping a mass shooting, why is that?

Why do you keep talking about low ball numbers on DGU's yet you don't provide a source so it can be scrutinized, why is that? And even using your numbers, 108,000 prevented crimes is not insignificant.

I never made that claim, different poster.

Ncvs survey.

My bad, sorry about that.

So why do you have more faith in the Census Bureau over the CDC when it comes to DGU's, could it be you think it supports your position better or do you think the CDC is full of it?

 

[2aguy]

Google Oregon Mall shooter. Guns are used about 2 million times a year for defensive purposes, in most cases a shot is never fired. A bad guy just knowing you're armed will usually send them scurrying for safer ground, because they are basically cowards.

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

Cars are used many more times than that each day. The largest survey on DGU is 108k per year.

I see you skipped over my disproving your contention that no concealed carrier had stopped a mass shooting. The reason it doesn't happen more often is most mass shooters go to gun free zones.

Now for DGU's, here's the latest numbers available. My B/U

The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”

CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’

The average accepted number of DGU's in about 2 million. If you want to counter theses numbers feel free, but don't use gun grabber propaganda.

There are studies that say 108k and lower. Those numbers are far more likely.

Once again you refuse to admit you were wrong about a concealed carry holder never stopping a mass shooting, why is that?

Why do you keep talking about low ball numbers on DGU's yet you don't provide a source so it can be scrutinized, why is that? And even using your numbers, 108,000 prevented crimes is not insignificant.

I never made that claim, different poster.

Ncvs survey.

the National Crime Victimization Survey is not a gun study...it is not a defensive gun use study and doesn't even use the word gun in the study.......but....it is the only study that has such a low number so that is why it is the only one you site...

 

[2aguy]

What happened in Paris makes us all want to bomb something or dream of being there to shoot the bad guys! Of course it does! And everytime there's a mass shooting, Second Amendment defenders say "if they had only been carrying...." But I'm still waiting to hear of a time when a mass shooting was stopped or nipped in the bud by an armed citizen. Surely, if that is the answer, it will have happened plenty of times, considering how many mass shootings we've had and how many gun carrying folks live in this country. Why has it never stopped a mass shooting yet?

Google Oregon Mall shooter. Guns are used about 2 million times a year for defensive purposes, in most cases a shot is never fired. A bad guy just knowing you're armed will usually send them scurrying for safer ground, because they are basically cowards.

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

Cars are used many more times than that each day. The largest survey on DGU is 108k per year.

I see you skipped over my disproving your contention that no concealed carrier had stopped a mass shooting. The reason it doesn't happen more often is most mass shooters go to gun free zones.

Now for DGU's, here's the latest numbers available. My B/U

The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”

CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’

The average accepted number of DGU's in about 2 million. If you want to counter theses numbers feel free, but don't use gun grabber propaganda.

There are studies that say 108k and lower. Those numbers are far more likely.

Just because you like that number, that has no bearing on it being accurate......the study you use is a crime victim study...not a gun study....it doesn't even use the word gun any where in the study.......

 

[OKTexas]

Massive strawman fail. You act like any who carries a gun somehow leaves all common sense at the door, that's not the case. A clear sight picture of an identified threat is required before you squeeze the trigger.

Yeah, in a dark crowded room. Funny...

Evidently there was enough light for the terrorist to identify their targets, citizens would be operating in the same conditions. And the only thing funny is your demonstrated willful ignorance.

Identify their targets? Are you on drugs? Their "targets" were about 1,500 random people.

No I think you lack critical thinking skills due to your peyote addled brain. You have to see'm to shoot'm.

The concert hall was packed and there was light coming from the stage. Are you really that dumb?

No but evidently your are. How could the survivors possibly describe bleeding people in total darkness?

 

[jillian]

I am ready to discuss gun control on this issue when anyone is willing......

Did the extreme gun control laws of France, far stricter than those here in the United States, prevent any of these attackers from getting their guns? You cannot legally own guns in FRance outside of some hunting shotguns and they probably have to be kept in a gun club..and you have to go through tremendous hassles to get access to those guns....does anyone think these terrorists did that?

Will we find out that these terrorists were well known to the French government?

As I have been saying...guns are easy to get in Europe if you are a criminal or a terrorist...that they don't use them more is simply a choice, not because they lack access....as these attacks show.

And in Europe..their criminals and terrorists prefer fully automatic rifles......as well as grenades....

Gun control worked incredibly well in France....not one of the victims who was murdered tonight will have been armed and able to resist the attack....

But....But....they don't have the kind of mass shootings that we do in America...right? And what have I said in post after post.....the culture over there is changing and that they were importing criminals to commit the gun crime that European criminals won't do...

And I would point out that armed French citizens could likely have reduced the ability of the attackers to kill the unarmed victims so easily.

Also...I have posted that the number of casualties in attacks in gun free societies will always be higher...because no one is armed, including many of the police forces...which means the time it takes for their special operations police...you know..the ones with guns...takes far longer to get into the fight...

These attacks show this to be true....

If you live in New York city...I would suggest watching yourself in public places and carry your concealed carry pistol if you haven't made a habit of it....oh....wait....that's right.....only those with the money to hire a lawyer can actually get a permit to carry a gun in New York city.....and of course the bodyguards of the political class......

I point out New York city because these nuts seem to focus on New York..but if you live in other big cities...Chicago, and L.A. I would keep your eyes open......

lmao... you think guns stop someone from blowing themselves up.

 

[2aguy]

I am ready to discuss gun control on this issue when anyone is willing......

Did the extreme gun control laws of France, far stricter than those here in the United States, prevent any of these attackers from getting their guns? You cannot legally own guns in FRance outside of some hunting shotguns and they probably have to be kept in a gun club..and you have to go through tremendous hassles to get access to those guns....does anyone think these terrorists did that?

Will we find out that these terrorists were well known to the French government?

As I have been saying...guns are easy to get in Europe if you are a criminal or a terrorist...that they don't use them more is simply a choice, not because they lack access....as these attacks show.

And in Europe..their criminals and terrorists prefer fully automatic rifles......as well as grenades....

Gun control worked incredibly well in France....not one of the victims who was murdered tonight will have been armed and able to resist the attack....

But....But....they don't have the kind of mass shootings that we do in America...right? And what have I said in post after post.....the culture over there is changing and that they were importing criminals to commit the gun crime that European criminals won't do...

And I would point out that armed French citizens could likely have reduced the ability of the attackers to kill the unarmed victims so easily.

Also...I have posted that the number of casualties in attacks in gun free societies will always be higher...because no one is armed, including many of the police forces...which means the time it takes for their special operations police...you know..the ones with guns...takes far longer to get into the fight...

These attacks show this to be true....

If you live in New York city...I would suggest watching yourself in public places and carry your concealed carry pistol if you haven't made a habit of it....oh....wait....that's right.....only those with the money to hire a lawyer can actually get a permit to carry a gun in New York city.....and of course the bodyguards of the political class......

I point out New York city because these nuts seem to focus on New York..but if you live in other big cities...Chicago, and L.A. I would keep your eyes open......

lmao... you think guns stop someone from blowing themselves up.

if they are dead they can't press the trigger on the bomb, can they?

 

[2aguy]

Yeah, in a dark crowded room. Funny...

Evidently there was enough light for the terrorist to identify their targets, citizens would be operating in the same conditions. And the only thing funny is your demonstrated willful ignorance.

Identify their targets? Are you on drugs? Their "targets" were about 1,500 random people.

No I think you lack critical thinking skills due to your peyote addled brain. You have to see'm to shoot'm.

The concert hall was packed and there was light coming from the stage. Are you really that dumb?

No but evidently your are.

O.K.Texas....brain cites the national crime victimization survey because it is the only study that puts defensive gun use that low.....it is not a gun study. it studies crime victims ...not gun use. they don't ask any questions about guns...and no questions about defensive gun use......all of the other studies are 764,000 defensive gun uses or higher and most of the studies are well over 1 million...

Bill Clinton commissioned a gun self defense study through the Department of Justice using two rabid anti gunners...they built their own study and ran it.....and they found that defensive gun use occurred 1.5 million times a year.........

Again..he only uses the NCVs because it is the only study that has a low defensive gun use number and it gets that number by not being a gun study....not asking any questions about guns...at all....

He is lying to you with those numbers.......

 

[Brain357]

We know how many legally carry. Are you suggesting they are shooting while driving?

Did I say anything that would suggest that? In my State anyone who can legally own a gun can carry one concealed in their car, no permit needed.

Then what was the point of your question?

What was your point about the number of cars on the interstate vs. the number of cars that turn into a gun range?

There is a reason car accidents kill more than gun accidents. Cars are used millions of times more.

And fists, feet, knives, clubs and other weapons kills 2/3rds as many as guns, 2.3 per hundred thousand vs.3.7 by gun. Those are homicide rates if you want to get into accidents or suicides, that's a whole different discussion. Considering there are an estimated 300 million guns in private hands that's an astounding low rate, and it's fallen by 43% since 1993, while gun ownership has increased.

BTW there are about 46 million fewer cars than there are guns. Also there are 13.6 vehicle deaths per 100 thousand vs. 3.7 by gun.

Yet we lead the civilized world in gun deaths.

Cars are used millions of times more than guns. Guns are obviously far more dangerous.

 

[Brain357]

What happened in Paris makes us all want to bomb something or dream of being there to shoot the bad guys! Of course it does! And everytime there's a mass shooting, Second Amendment defenders say "if they had only been carrying...." But I'm still waiting to hear of a time when a mass shooting was stopped or nipped in the bud by an armed citizen. Surely, if that is the answer, it will have happened plenty of times, considering how many mass shootings we've had and how many gun carrying folks live in this country. Why has it never stopped a mass shooting yet?

Google Oregon Mall shooter. Guns are used about 2 million times a year for defensive purposes, in most cases a shot is never fired. A bad guy just knowing you're armed will usually send them scurrying for safer ground, because they are basically cowards.

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

Cars are used many more times than that each day. The largest survey on DGU is 108k per year.

I see you skipped over my disproving your contention that no concealed carrier had stopped a mass shooting. The reason it doesn't happen more often is most mass shooters go to gun free zones.

Now for DGU's, here's the latest numbers available. My B/U

The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”

CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’

The average accepted number of DGU's in about 2 million. If you want to counter theses numbers feel free, but don't use gun grabber propaganda.

There are studies that say 108k and lower. Those numbers are far more likely.

Just because you like that number, that has no bearing on it being accurate......the study you use is a crime victim study...not a gun study....it doesn't even use the word gun any where in the study.......

It's the only one that can possibly be accurate based on crime rates and gun ownership.

 

[OKTexas]

I am ready to discuss gun control on this issue when anyone is willing......

Did the extreme gun control laws of France, far stricter than those here in the United States, prevent any of these attackers from getting their guns? You cannot legally own guns in FRance outside of some hunting shotguns and they probably have to be kept in a gun club..and you have to go through tremendous hassles to get access to those guns....does anyone think these terrorists did that?

Will we find out that these terrorists were well known to the French government?

As I have been saying...guns are easy to get in Europe if you are a criminal or a terrorist...that they don't use them more is simply a choice, not because they lack access....as these attacks show.

And in Europe..their criminals and terrorists prefer fully automatic rifles......as well as grenades....

Gun control worked incredibly well in France....not one of the victims who was murdered tonight will have been armed and able to resist the attack....

But....But....they don't have the kind of mass shootings that we do in America...right? And what have I said in post after post.....the culture over there is changing and that they were importing criminals to commit the gun crime that European criminals won't do...

And I would point out that armed French citizens could likely have reduced the ability of the attackers to kill the unarmed victims so easily.

Also...I have posted that the number of casualties in attacks in gun free societies will always be higher...because no one is armed, including many of the police forces...which means the time it takes for their special operations police...you know..the ones with guns...takes far longer to get into the fight...

These attacks show this to be true....

If you live in New York city...I would suggest watching yourself in public places and carry your concealed carry pistol if you haven't made a habit of it....oh....wait....that's right.....only those with the money to hire a lawyer can actually get a permit to carry a gun in New York city.....and of course the bodyguards of the political class......

I point out New York city because these nuts seem to focus on New York..but if you live in other big cities...Chicago, and L.A. I would keep your eyes open......

lmao... you think guns stop someone from blowing themselves up.

Sometimes, but they can be kept away form a target if they are identified. You'll never stop everyone intent on dying to get something done but you can limit the damage.

 

[Lakhota]

Yeah, in a dark crowded room. Funny...

Evidently there was enough light for the terrorist to identify their targets, citizens would be operating in the same conditions. And the only thing funny is your demonstrated willful ignorance.

Identify their targets? Are you on drugs? Their "targets" were about 1,500 random people.

No I think you lack critical thinking skills due to your peyote addled brain. You have to see'm to shoot'm.

The concert hall was packed and there was light coming from the stage. Are you really that dumb?

No but evidently your are. How could the survivors possibly describe bleeding people in total darkness?

Duh, I never said "total darkness"...

 

[OKTexas]

Evidently there was enough light for the terrorist to identify their targets, citizens would be operating in the same conditions. And the only thing funny is your demonstrated willful ignorance.

Identify their targets? Are you on drugs? Their "targets" were about 1,500 random people.

No I think you lack critical thinking skills due to your peyote addled brain. You have to see'm to shoot'm.

The concert hall was packed and there was light coming from the stage. Are you really that dumb?

No but evidently your are.

O.K.Texas....brain cites the national crime victimization survey because it is the only study that puts defensive gun use that low.....it is not a gun study. it studies crime victims ...not gun use. they don't ask any questions about guns...and no questions about defensive gun use......all of the other studies are 764,000 defensive gun uses or higher and most of the studies are well over 1 million...

Bill Clinton commissioned a gun self defense study through the Department of Justice using two rabid anti gunners...they built their own study and ran it.....and they found that defensive gun use occurred 1.5 million times a year.........

Again..he only uses the NCVs because it is the only study that has a low defensive gun use number and it gets that number by not being a gun study....not asking any questions about guns...at all....

He is lying to you with those numbers.......

I'm fully aware of what the NCVS is, I was chosen to participate in it two years ago, I told the census worker to get the hell off my property and not come back. Their constitutional mandate is to count noses, not this other BS.

 

[Lakhota]

Identify their targets? Are you on drugs? Their "targets" were about 1,500 random people.

No I think you lack critical thinking skills due to your peyote addled brain. You have to see'm to shoot'm.

The concert hall was packed and there was light coming from the stage. Are you really that dumb?

No but evidently your are.

O.K.Texas....brain cites the national crime victimization survey because it is the only study that puts defensive gun use that low.....it is not a gun study. it studies crime victims ...not gun use. they don't ask any questions about guns...and no questions about defensive gun use......all of the other studies are 764,000 defensive gun uses or higher and most of the studies are well over 1 million...

Bill Clinton commissioned a gun self defense study through the Department of Justice using two rabid anti gunners...they built their own study and ran it.....and they found that defensive gun use occurred 1.5 million times a year.........

Again..he only uses the NCVs because it is the only study that has a low defensive gun use number and it gets that number by not being a gun study....not asking any questions about guns...at all....

He is lying to you with those numbers.......

I'm fully aware of what the NCVS is, I was chosen to participate in it two years ago, I told the census worker to get the hell off my property and not come back. Their constitutional mandate is to count noses, not this other BS.

So, you were even an arrogant asshole to a minimum wage census worker.

 

[OKTexas]

Did I say anything that would suggest that? In my State anyone who can legally own a gun can carry one concealed in their car, no permit needed.

Then what was the point of your question?

What was your point about the number of cars on the interstate vs. the number of cars that turn into a gun range?

There is a reason car accidents kill more than gun accidents. Cars are used millions of times more.

And fists, feet, knives, clubs and other weapons kills 2/3rds as many as guns, 2.3 per hundred thousand vs.3.7 by gun. Those are homicide rates if you want to get into accidents or suicides, that's a whole different discussion. Considering there are an estimated 300 million guns in private hands that's an astounding low rate, and it's fallen by 43% since 1993, while gun ownership has increased.

BTW there are about 46 million fewer cars than there are guns. Also there are 13.6 vehicle deaths per 100 thousand vs. 3.7 by gun.

Yet we lead the civilized world in gun deaths.

Cars are used millions of times more than guns. Guns are obviously far more dangerous.

Maybe you should be talking to the people that commit homicides with them and leave the law abiding the hell alone.

 

[OKTexas]

Evidently there was enough light for the terrorist to identify their targets, citizens would be operating in the same conditions. And the only thing funny is your demonstrated willful ignorance.

Identify their targets? Are you on drugs? Their "targets" were about 1,500 random people.

No I think you lack critical thinking skills due to your peyote addled brain. You have to see'm to shoot'm.

The concert hall was packed and there was light coming from the stage. Are you really that dumb?

No but evidently your are. How could the survivors possibly describe bleeding people in total darkness?

Duh, I never said "total darkness"...

So now you're saying there was enough light to see, but not enough for a citizen to identify a target. Damn you're nuts.