In the name of Islam

[Coyote]

One fact you over look - you're "facts" were not available until recently.

Nonetheless, despite your tantrum, they are still facts, regardless of when they came to light. One of those links was available the day after the attack took place. I exercised simple deductive reasoning, you used emotion. I'm sorry if you find that in any way upsetting.

I found your pomposity unsettling. You're "simple deductive reasoning" is discounting what it finds inconvenient. (perhaps that is your own emotional response)

2. There is no proof whatsoever he is not mentally ill. That claim, I might add - is being based on his brother alone. So you will discount his mother, but buy into his brother without question?

When the testimonies conflict, one can neither confirm or deny mental illness. However, and as I've told you before, he made one statement that proved to me that he was in possession of his sanity at the time of the incident. It also revealed intent and motive.

You've arbretarily chosen to believe one conflicting testimony over the other.

None of the statements he made say one thing or the other about his sanity.

In one of the articles a woman drowned her kid, and stated that she did it for Jesus (he told her to do it). Is that indicative of sanity?

What's more there's no proof that he was mentally ill. So far, there is evidence pointing to him being part of a larger network.

You are splitting hairs.

Let's be accurate here. Unless you've read something I have not - there is no evidence pointing him to being part of a larger network yet. There is a tip, from an individual, claiming he is one of 4 and also claiming another near by mosque is radical. He made two trips - one to Mecca and one to Egypt. The latest I heard is that the police are attempting to verify the tip and they have said nothing one way or the other. The FBI is invistigating the trips - and they have also said nothing one way or the other. In addition - being part of a larger network doesn't preclude mental illness. There may be no proof he was mentally ill, as you say but neither is there proof he was sane.

How about some honesty here Templar? Is that possible coming from you or are you basking in your own ego?

1. I never dismissed that he was a Muslim.

My ego has zero to do with this. As you have witnessed, I am honest enough to admit when I'm wrong or if I make a mistake. But this time, I'm not backing down. Evidence supports my premise, not yours. You attacking me directly only makes my case.

Listen dude - when you start in attacking me, don't expect me to sit back and take it. If you don't like it, don't start it. Evidence does not support either premise conclusively.

And I would prefer it if you wouldn't lecture me about honesty, since your first post in this thread was this:

The man heard voices. He was mentally ill. He never attended a mosque.

So, one could make the case to call your honesty into question. Do you deny making this statement?

[/QUOTE]

And it was a perfectly honest statement based on the information available at the time I made it.

 

[Coyote]

Killing in the name of religion isn't exactly unusual as was noted in the list of articles on people killing for God/Jesus/etc. They declared it. So, I suppose mental illness had nothing to do with it and there is no reason to doubt what they say about the reason for murder? That's what you believe?

Mental illness has nothing to do with it until they have been diagnosed as mentally ill. Get it yet?

Reasonable assumptions can be made on mental illness based on behavior and statements. Is it definitive? No. But it's reasonable. (unless it's a Muslim right?)

Stating 'I'm doing this for Islam',' I support isis', and 'you are enforcing laws at odds with Islam' are not an indication of mental illness. The mother stating he is mentally ill and the brother stating he isn't is not helpful either in making an assumption he is mentally ill. Keep trying though, its fun

"Jesus told me to drown my kid"....so she did.

Personally, I think she was mentally ill. But if you want to insist it was religion, that's your choice.

Was she diagnosed with a mental illness?

Insufficient information in that article but enough information to make a reasonable conclusion.

 

[bripat9643]

The man said he did it for Islam.

Let me see....you believe what he says, you discount what his mother says, you believe what his brother says.

I don't believe what the mother or the brother says at this point. The shooter declared his motivation. Killing in the name of Islam isn't exactly unusual. I have absolutely no reason to doubt what he says about the reason for his attempt to murder.

Killing in the name of religion isn't exactly unusual as was noted in the list of articles on people killing for God/Jesus/etc. They declared it. So, I suppose mental illness had nothing to do with it and there is no reason to doubt what they say about the reason for murder? That's what you believe?

Mental illness has nothing to do with it until they have been diagnosed as mentally ill. Get it yet?

Reasonable assumptions can be made on mental illness based on behavior and statements. Is it definitive? No. But it's reasonable. (unless it's a Muslim right?)

Let me guess: He's obviously mentally ill because he shot a cop. Is that your theory?

 

[Coyote]

Let me see....you believe what he says, you discount what his mother says, you believe what his brother says.

I don't believe what the mother or the brother says at this point. The shooter declared his motivation. Killing in the name of Islam isn't exactly unusual. I have absolutely no reason to doubt what he says about the reason for his attempt to murder.

Killing in the name of religion isn't exactly unusual as was noted in the list of articles on people killing for God/Jesus/etc. They declared it. So, I suppose mental illness had nothing to do with it and there is no reason to doubt what they say about the reason for murder? That's what you believe?

Mental illness has nothing to do with it until they have been diagnosed as mentally ill. Get it yet?

Reasonable assumptions can be made on mental illness based on behavior and statements. Is it definitive? No. But it's reasonable. (unless it's a Muslim right?)

Let me guess: He's obviously mentally ill because he shot a cop. Is that your theory?

Nope. Read the thread.

 

[bripat9643]

I don't believe what the mother or the brother says at this point. The shooter declared his motivation. Killing in the name of Islam isn't exactly unusual. I have absolutely no reason to doubt what he says about the reason for his attempt to murder.

Killing in the name of religion isn't exactly unusual as was noted in the list of articles on people killing for God/Jesus/etc. They declared it. So, I suppose mental illness had nothing to do with it and there is no reason to doubt what they say about the reason for murder? That's what you believe?

Mental illness has nothing to do with it until they have been diagnosed as mentally ill. Get it yet?

Reasonable assumptions can be made on mental illness based on behavior and statements. Is it definitive? No. But it's reasonable. (unless it's a Muslim right?)

Let me guess: He's obviously mentally ill because he shot a cop. Is that your theory?

Nope. Read the thread.

I've already read every post. What is the basis of your belief that he's mentally ill?

 

[Coyote]

Killing in the name of religion isn't exactly unusual as was noted in the list of articles on people killing for God/Jesus/etc. They declared it. So, I suppose mental illness had nothing to do with it and there is no reason to doubt what they say about the reason for murder? That's what you believe?

Mental illness has nothing to do with it until they have been diagnosed as mentally ill. Get it yet?

Reasonable assumptions can be made on mental illness based on behavior and statements. Is it definitive? No. But it's reasonable. (unless it's a Muslim right?)

Let me guess: He's obviously mentally ill because he shot a cop. Is that your theory?

Nope. Read the thread.

I've already read every post. What is the basis of your belief that he's mentally ill?

I've already explained it in this thread. I'm not going to repeat myself.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And it was a perfectly honest statement based on the information available at the time I made it.

Even as evidence came in, you still insisted upon it.

 

[Coyote]

And it was a perfectly honest statement based on the information available at the time I made it.

Even as evidence came in, you still insisted upon it.

On what in particular?

 

[TemplarKormac]

And it was a perfectly honest statement based on the information available at the time I made it.

Even as evidence came in, you still insisted upon it.

On what in particular?

That he was simply mentally ill.

 

[Tilly]

Mental illness has nothing to do with it until they have been diagnosed as mentally ill. Get it yet?

Reasonable assumptions can be made on mental illness based on behavior and statements. Is it definitive? No. But it's reasonable. (unless it's a Muslim right?)

Stating 'I'm doing this for Islam',' I support isis', and 'you are enforcing laws at odds with Islam' are not an indication of mental illness. The mother stating he is mentally ill and the brother stating he isn't is not helpful either in making an assumption he is mentally ill. Keep trying though, its fun

"Jesus told me to drown my kid"....so she did.

Personally, I think she was mentally ill. But if you want to insist it was religion, that's your choice.

Was she diagnosed with a mental illness?

Insufficient information in that article but enough information to make a reasonable conclusion.

So,you're concluding she's mentally ill in the absence of a diagnosis form a qualified psychiatrist?

 

[Tilly]

Coyote: "The man heard voices. He was mentally ill. He never attended a mosque."

This is your statement. You present your musings as undeniable facts. And you did so over and over. You are either dishonest or stupid.

 

[Coyote]

Reasonable assumptions can be made on mental illness based on behavior and statements. Is it definitive? No. But it's reasonable. (unless it's a Muslim right?)

Stating 'I'm doing this for Islam',' I support isis', and 'you are enforcing laws at odds with Islam' are not an indication of mental illness. The mother stating he is mentally ill and the brother stating he isn't is not helpful either in making an assumption he is mentally ill. Keep trying though, its fun

"Jesus told me to drown my kid"....so she did.

Personally, I think she was mentally ill. But if you want to insist it was religion, that's your choice.

Was she diagnosed with a mental illness?

Insufficient information in that article but enough information to make a reasonable conclusion.

So,you're concluding she's mentally ill in the absence of a diagnosis form a qualified psychiatrist?

Yup.

Just like you're concluding this guy did it for his religion - in absence of any authorative statements from a religious expert.

 

[Tilly]

Killing in the name of religion isn't exactly unusual as was noted in the list of articles on people killing for God/Jesus/etc. They declared it. So, I suppose mental illness had nothing to do with it and there is no reason to doubt what they say about the reason for murder? That's what you believe?

Mental illness has nothing to do with it until they have been diagnosed as mentally ill. Get it yet?

Reasonable assumptions can be made on mental illness based on behavior and statements. Is it definitive? No. But it's reasonable. (unless it's a Muslim right?)

Let me guess: He's obviously mentally ill because he shot a cop. Is that your theory?

Nope. Read the thread.

I've already read every post. What is the basis of your belief that he's mentally ill?

Cos his mommy said so.
However, his brother said he is not mentally ill.
There is no diagnosis.
He attends mosque, but coyote was implying he is not a Muslim by stating as a fact that he does not attend the mosque. Here's her 'FACTS' based upon the above.

Coyote: 'The man heard voices. He was mentally ill. He never attended a mosque.'

 

[bripat9643]

Mental illness has nothing to do with it until they have been diagnosed as mentally ill. Get it yet?

Reasonable assumptions can be made on mental illness based on behavior and statements. Is it definitive? No. But it's reasonable. (unless it's a Muslim right?)

Let me guess: He's obviously mentally ill because he shot a cop. Is that your theory?

Nope. Read the thread.

I've already read every post. What is the basis of your belief that he's mentally ill?

I've already explained it in this thread. I'm not going to repeat myself.

Just as I thought: you have no explanation.

 

[bripat9643]

Stating 'I'm doing this for Islam',' I support isis', and 'you are enforcing laws at odds with Islam' are not an indication of mental illness. The mother stating he is mentally ill and the brother stating he isn't is not helpful either in making an assumption he is mentally ill. Keep trying though, its fun

"Jesus told me to drown my kid"....so she did.

Personally, I think she was mentally ill. But if you want to insist it was religion, that's your choice.

Was she diagnosed with a mental illness?

Insufficient information in that article but enough information to make a reasonable conclusion.

So,you're concluding she's mentally ill in the absence of a diagnosis form a qualified psychiatrist?

Yup.

Just like you're concluding this guy did it for his religion - in absence of any authorative statements from a religious expert.

ROFL! The perp is the ultimate authority on why he did it.

 

[Tilly]

Stating 'I'm doing this for Islam',' I support isis', and 'you are enforcing laws at odds with Islam' are not an indication of mental illness. The mother stating he is mentally ill and the brother stating he isn't is not helpful either in making an assumption he is mentally ill. Keep trying though, its fun

"Jesus told me to drown my kid"....so she did.

Personally, I think she was mentally ill. But if you want to insist it was religion, that's your choice.

Was she diagnosed with a mental illness?

Insufficient information in that article but enough information to make a reasonable conclusion.

So,you're concluding she's mentally ill in the absence of a diagnosis form a qualified psychiatrist?

Yup.

Just like you're concluding this guy did it for his religion - in absence of any authorative statements from a religious expert.

Shaheed stated he did it for his religion. Far be it for me to call him a liar.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Listen dude - when you start in attacking me, don't expect me to sit back and take it. If you don't like it, don't start it. Evidence does not support either premise conclusively.

Was I attacking you? I've learned long ago that personal attacks are not viable arguments. I see it most often that when I'm in the process of rebutting someone's argument, they perceive it to be an attack on them. I did not, nor am I purposefully trying to defame you in any manner.

As far as the evidence goes, it is quite conclusive, no matter how many times you wish to deny it.

... there is no evidence pointing him to being part of a larger network yet. There is a tip, from an individual, claiming he is one of 4 and also claiming another near by mosque is radical. He made two trips - one to Mecca and one to Egypt. The latest I heard is that the police are attempting to verify the tip and they have said nothing one way or the other.

Let's be accurate. While you may dismiss this "citizen" as anonymous or untrustworthy, think of the implications if this person were lying. Jail time, felony perjury... you name it.

'ISIS gunman who tried to kill cop' could be part of a larger network

 

[bripat9643]

Mental illness has nothing to do with it until they have been diagnosed as mentally ill. Get it yet?

Reasonable assumptions can be made on mental illness based on behavior and statements. Is it definitive? No. But it's reasonable. (unless it's a Muslim right?)

Let me guess: He's obviously mentally ill because he shot a cop. Is that your theory?

Nope. Read the thread.

I've already read every post. What is the basis of your belief that he's mentally ill?

Cos his mommy said so.
However, his brother said he is not mentally ill.
There is no diagnosis.
He attends mosque, but coyote was implying he is not a Muslim by stating as a fact that he does not attend the mosque. Here's her 'FACTS' based upon the above.

Coyote: 'The man heard voices. He was mentally ill. He never attended a mosque.'

Yes, I know. I read all that. That's why I said he/she never posted an explanation.

 

[Coyote]

Coyote: "The man heard voices. He was mentally ill. He never attended a mosque."

This is your statement. You present your musings as undeniable facts. And you did so over and over. You are either dishonest or stupid.

According to his mother he heard voices. That is a source backing up my "musings" if you require a statement by a qualified psychiatrist that is your perogative but this is just a messageboard where people (like you and I) post our opinions. People that hear voices are generally mentally ill. The third part, about the mosque - I said twice and admitted error when another accounting was posted where the Imam recognized him under his muslim name.

So...I'm not sure what you mean by "over and over" but you seem to think (like with a mosque) mentioning something twice is "over and over".

Hyperbole much or just general dishonesty?

 

[Coyote]

Listen dude - when you start in attacking me, don't expect me to sit back and take it. If you don't like it, don't start it. Evidence does not support either premise conclusively.

Was I attacking you? I've learned long ago that personal attacks are not viable arguments. I see it most often that when I'm in the process of rebutting someone's argument, they perceive it to be an attack on them. I did not, nor am I purposefully trying to defame you in any manner.

As far as the evidence goes, it is quite conclusive, no matter how many times you wish to deny it.

there is no evidence pointing him to being part of a larger network yet. ... there is no evidence pointing him to being part of a larger network yet. There is a tip, from an individual, claiming he is one of 4 and also claiming another near by mosque is radical. He made two trips - one to Mecca and one to Egypt. The latest I heard is that the police are attempting to verify the tip and they have said nothing one way or the other.

Let's be accurate. While you may dismiss this "citizen" as anonymous or untrustworthy, think of the implications if this person were lying. Jail time, felony perjury... you name it.

'ISIS gunman who tried to kill cop' could be part of a larger network

I'm not dismissing it but I'm not crediting it either. Tips can be false but a person giving them can believe it. The only possible penalty is wasting police time but I doubt that. Perjory is only under oath. I figure the police will figure it out and then we'll read about it but until then (and yes, like mental illness) it's speculative based on available evidence.