Debate Now Incivility

[Alex.]

Everybody is entitled to their own measuring rods of anything, but in the SDZ the OP gets to set the rules for the discussion. In this discussion, my rules are that nobody will be allowed to accuse, attack, or use any other ad hominem technique directed at any individual or group at USMB or elsewhere with impunity. I also reserved the right, via Rule #2, to define what ad hominem is. Those who don't like my rules are in no way obligated to participate on this thread at all, and are quite within their allowed rights to start their own thread with any sort of rules they prefer.

There isn't anything else to say on that particular subject, so I suggest that those who care to do so enjoy discussing their perspectives on the topic.

I understand that but who exactly was attacked and where was the incivility? Telling someone to leave the thread is incivility in action because they expressed an opinion within the rules that you set.

You can read the thread as well as I can quote it. Nobody was told to leave the thread, but that is offered as an option for those who do not wish to participate in this discussion on the terms set down for this discussion. If enforcing the rules set for this thread is interpreted as being uncivil, those who feel that way about it probably should find something else to do.

Now can we please return to the topic? Thank you very much.

By your standards set in the OP, you are being uncivil. Your issue at the center is you simply don't like being told, "You are wrong." That is not being uncivil.

Bada- BING


Should I stay or should I go now?

If you are not interested in discussing the topic and rather want to make this thread about me, it's up to you, but I will insist that we stay on topic and follow the rules regardless. The topic is not whether Foxfyre is or is not civil. Do have a pleasant evening.

By no means is this thread about you nor am I making this thread about you. I used an action that was taken in this thread as an example of incivility.

 

[MaryL]

Incivility and dishonesty, that is why we need red light cameras and photo radar. Our Fellow motorist need babysitters. Civility is dead.

 

[Foxfyre]

I understand that but who exactly was attacked and where was the incivility? Telling someone to leave the thread is incivility in action because they expressed an opinion within the rules that you set.

You can read the thread as well as I can quote it. Nobody was told to leave the thread, but that is offered as an option for those who do not wish to participate in this discussion on the terms set down for this discussion. If enforcing the rules set for this thread is interpreted as being uncivil, those who feel that way about it probably should find something else to do.

Now can we please return to the topic? Thank you very much.

By your standards set in the OP, you are being uncivil. Your issue at the center is you simply don't like being told, "You are wrong." That is not being uncivil.

Bada- BING


Should I stay or should I go now?

If you are not interested in discussing the topic and rather want to make this thread about me, it's up to you, but I will insist that we stay on topic and follow the rules regardless. The topic is not whether Foxfyre is or is not civil. Do have a pleasant evening.

By no means is this thread about you nor am I making this thread about you. I used an action that was taken in this thread as an example of incivility.

Good. Then we can move on.

 

[Statistikhengst]

One word: Liberalism. This growing trend to liberalism, the relaxation of standards, the lowering of expectations because ...not everybody can play, even on a even playing field. Now we got troll internet bullies, Bad drivers and road rage. Illegal aliens dictating immigration policies. Nut cases with guns dictating gun laws....This country is lost. Nobody has the guts to stand against the decline of standards and expect Americans to do better.

Well that is definitely a recap of the complaint set down in the OP, Mary, but IMO this is not one of those things we can blame on liberalism. I don't think we can point to liberals for the road rage or incivility on the internet etc. I see much incivility being demonstrated by folks on the right. And I'm sure the side most guilty is always going to be a subject of controversy based on any one person's perception.

But we used to be a nation where good manners were valued and expected. You don't think we can get back to that?

Ahhh, I think we are getting clarity here. Thank you very much.

Derideo_Te comments about incivility and mentions the Right and you flip out and tell him he is committing an ad hom sin, but when Mary attacks Liberalism that's not an ad hom sin!!!

I just love the double sided nature of this!!!

 

[Statistikhengst]

Everybody is entitled to their own measuring rods of anything, but in the SDZ the OP gets to set the rules for the discussion. In this discussion, my rules are that nobody will be allowed to accuse, attack, or use any other ad hominem technique directed at any individual or group at USMB or elsewhere with impunity. I also reserved the right, via Rule #2, to define what ad hominem is. Those who don't like my rules are in no way obligated to participate on this thread at all, and are quite within their allowed rights to start their own thread with any sort of rules they prefer.

There isn't anything else to say on that particular subject, so I suggest that those who care to do so enjoy discussing their perspectives on the topic.

I understand that but who exactly was attacked and where was the incivility? Telling someone to leave the thread is incivility in action because they expressed an opinion within the rules that you set.

You can read the thread as well as I can quote it. Nobody was told to leave the thread, but that is offered as an option for those who do not wish to participate in this discussion on the terms set down for this discussion. If enforcing the rules set for this thread is interpreted as being uncivil, those who feel that way about it probably should find something else to do.

Now can we please return to the topic? Thank you very much.

Suggesting someone leave, asking someone to leave, forcing someone to leave, anything that makes a person uncomfortable or causes them to feel trepidation in what they consider a valid response is incivility. That is on topic and we do not need government intervention to cause that behavior top stop, we just had a few posters object to your post, that is the way people in a society deem what is incivility and how to stop the behavior.

So what is more uncivil: breaking the stated rules or enforcing the stated rules? Coming onto a thread with the intent of derailing it and/or starting a fight or asking such people to find something else to do?

Disagreeing with somebody or getting in a huff because somebody dared disagree?

If enforcing the stated rules and/or giving people who don't want to follow them other options is to be interpreted as incivility, then so be it. I don't see it that way and probably never will.

If a rule was broken you would have my 100% support but you have not proven it was broken. That is an example of incivility

 

[ChrisL]

I understand that but who exactly was attacked and where was the incivility? Telling someone to leave the thread is incivility in action because they expressed an opinion within the rules that you set.

You can read the thread as well as I can quote it. Nobody was told to leave the thread, but that is offered as an option for those who do not wish to participate in this discussion on the terms set down for this discussion. If enforcing the rules set for this thread is interpreted as being uncivil, those who feel that way about it probably should find something else to do.

Now can we please return to the topic? Thank you very much.

Suggesting someone leave, asking someone to leave, forcing someone to leave, anything that makes a person uncomfortable or causes them to feel trepidation in what they consider a valid response is incivility. That is on topic and we do not need government intervention to cause that behavior top stop, we just had a few posters object to your post, that is the way people in a society deem what is incivility and how to stop the behavior.

So what is more uncivil: breaking the stated rules or enforcing the stated rules? Coming onto a thread with the intent of derailing it and/or starting a fight or asking such people to find something else to do?

Disagreeing with somebody or getting in a huff because somebody dared disagree?

If enforcing the stated rules and/or giving people who don't want to follow them other options is to be interpreted as incivility, then so be it. I don't see it that way and probably never will.

If a rule was broken you would have my 100% support but you have not proven it was broken. That is an example of incivility

What does it mean when your avatar is upside down? A sign of distress? A type of SOS?

 

[Statistikhengst]

You can read the thread as well as I can quote it. Nobody was told to leave the thread, but that is offered as an option for those who do not wish to participate in this discussion on the terms set down for this discussion. If enforcing the rules set for this thread is interpreted as being uncivil, those who feel that way about it probably should find something else to do.

Now can we please return to the topic? Thank you very much.

Suggesting someone leave, asking someone to leave, forcing someone to leave, anything that makes a person uncomfortable or causes them to feel trepidation in what they consider a valid response is incivility. That is on topic and we do not need government intervention to cause that behavior top stop, we just had a few posters object to your post, that is the way people in a society deem what is incivility and how to stop the behavior.

So what is more uncivil: breaking the stated rules or enforcing the stated rules? Coming onto a thread with the intent of derailing it and/or starting a fight or asking such people to find something else to do?

Disagreeing with somebody or getting in a huff because somebody dared disagree?

If enforcing the stated rules and/or giving people who don't want to follow them other options is to be interpreted as incivility, then so be it. I don't see it that way and probably never will.

If a rule was broken you would have my 100% support but you have not proven it was broken. That is an example of incivility

[emoji14]opcorn:

What does it mean when your avatar is upside down? A sign of distress? A type of SOS?

Is this thread suddenly about my avatar? Wow, cool!

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

 

[ChrisL]

I didn't choose any options because I would have to choose them all. I think the reason depends upon the person and circumstances.

 

[ChrisL]

Suggesting someone leave, asking someone to leave, forcing someone to leave, anything that makes a person uncomfortable or causes them to feel trepidation in what they consider a valid response is incivility. That is on topic and we do not need government intervention to cause that behavior top stop, we just had a few posters object to your post, that is the way people in a society deem what is incivility and how to stop the behavior.

So what is more uncivil: breaking the stated rules or enforcing the stated rules? Coming onto a thread with the intent of derailing it and/or starting a fight or asking such people to find something else to do?

Disagreeing with somebody or getting in a huff because somebody dared disagree?

If enforcing the stated rules and/or giving people who don't want to follow them other options is to be interpreted as incivility, then so be it. I don't see it that way and probably never will.

If a rule was broken you would have my 100% support but you have not proven it was broken. That is an example of incivility

[emoji14]opcorn:

What does it mean when your avatar is upside down? A sign of distress? A type of SOS?

Is this thread suddenly about my avatar? Wow, cool!

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

Just curious. A little defensive? Some of you are SUPER sensitive about avatars, huh?

 

[Foxfyre]

One word: Liberalism. This growing trend to liberalism, the relaxation of standards, the lowering of expectations because ...not everybody can play, even on a even playing field. Now we got troll internet bullies, Bad drivers and road rage. Illegal aliens dictating immigration policies. Nut cases with guns dictating gun laws....This country is lost. Nobody has the guts to stand against the decline of standards and expect Americans to do better.

Well that is definitely a recap of the complaint set down in the OP, Mary, but IMO this is not one of those things we can blame on liberalism. I don't think we can point to liberals for the road rage or incivility on the internet etc. I see much incivility being demonstrated by folks on the right. And I'm sure the side most guilty is always going to be a subject of controversy based on any one person's perception.

But we used to be a nation where good manners were valued and expected. You don't think we can get back to that?

Ahhh, I think we are getting clarity here. Thank you very much.

Derideo_Te comments about incivility and mentions the Right and you flip out and tell him he is committing an ad hom sin, but when Mary attacks Liberalism that's not an ad hom sin!!!

I just love the double sided nature of this!!!

If you don't see the difference between the way Mary phrased it and the way DT phrased it--Mary was not addressing any specific group or persons with her comment - DT WAS addressing a specific group or person--then I doubt I have the communications skills that would convince you.

 

[Foxfyre]

I didn't choose any options because I would have to choose them all. I think the reason depends upon the person and circumstances.

Well the poll did allow people to choose all that apply. I chose several when I answered on it. And if you change your mind about something during the course of the discussion, there is an option to change your choices

 

[Gracie]

And even a discussion about civility turns uncivil. Why am I not surprised.

 

[Gracie]

People that flip me off, I can deal with. The idiot that flipped me off AFTER he deliberately ran a red light and flipped me off AFTER I honked at him, That is what convinced me to put in a dash camera. I use it every time I drive now, because people are such dingbats. Uncivil dangerous dingbats. Jesus won't be on my left side to stand with me, I got a camera as my witness. That is the sad state of civility and honesty in America now.

I gotta admit I am pretty uncivil to asshole drivers

 

[Statistikhengst]

One word: Liberalism. This growing trend to liberalism, the relaxation of standards, the lowering of expectations because ...not everybody can play, even on a even playing field. Now we got troll internet bullies, Bad drivers and road rage. Illegal aliens dictating immigration policies. Nut cases with guns dictating gun laws....This country is lost. Nobody has the guts to stand against the decline of standards and expect Americans to do better.

Well that is definitely a recap of the complaint set down in the OP, Mary, but IMO this is not one of those things we can blame on liberalism. I don't think we can point to liberals for the road rage or incivility on the internet etc. I see much incivility being demonstrated by folks on the right. And I'm sure the side most guilty is always going to be a subject of controversy based on any one person's perception.

But we used to be a nation where good manners were valued and expected. You don't think we can get back to that?

Ahhh, I think we are getting clarity here. Thank you very much.

Derideo_Te comments about incivility and mentions the Right and you flip out and tell him he is committing an ad hom sin, but when Mary attacks Liberalism that's not an ad hom sin!!!

I just love the double sided nature of this!!!

If you don't see the difference between the way Mary phrased it and the way DT phrased it--Mary was not addressing any specific group or persons with her comment - DT WAS addressing a specific group or person--then I doubt I have the communications skills that would convince you.

Oh, but Foxfyre, attacking an entire ideology is logically also attacking all who adhere to it.

But ok, I take it that's ok. Alrighty, then, I can take your ball and run with it!!

Using your logic I will now present my well thought out argument and say that Conservativism is the major reason for incivility all over the planet. With a "fuck you, get off my lawn, you Mexican bastards, me first, me first" mentality, the rage that Conservativism unleashes in millions of unwashed, unkempt, unread, illiterate and unteachable Conservatives has led to an impenetrable wall of incivility. I guess the only way to treat the rabid dogs is to put them down. Time for a trip to the vet!

There. How did I do?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Incivility and dishonesty, that is why we need red light cameras and photo radar. Our Fellow motorist need babysitters. Civility is dead.

No its not.

Unless YOU decide to be a bitch.

Seriously, we each make that decision with every single exchange we have with another person.

People feel impotent, helpless. They have no choice but to be nice to people they don't like and certainly don't respect. The boss, in-laws, the landlord, the twit at the bank and even your spouse have power over you and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

So, the smallest among us take it out on those who can't fight back - the clerk, wait-person, the poor dumb slob at Walmart.

Ultimately however, YOU are in control of your own responses.

If you CHOOSE to be a uncivil bitch, you have relinquished that control and that is your own fault.

 

[Statistikhengst]

And even a discussion about civility turns uncivil. Why am I not surprised.

Exactly where has it turned uncivil?

Anyone landed a right-hook? Any blood on the floor?

Hmmmmm.....

 

[Foxfyre]

And even a discussion about civility turns uncivil. Why am I not surprised.

Well moving that to a philosophical discussion rather than specifics, the trick is not to participate in it. Hard to do sometimes. Even harder when some seem to be doing their damndest to provoke a fight and evenmoreso when they collaborate on how to accomplish it. But that is all illustrative of the whole topic of incivility. At some point, I think we as a society have to decide to be the adults in the room and not allow others to determine how we will behave.

In fact that is probably the key to the whole problem of incivility. Choosing to be the adults in the room and not allow others to determine how we will behave. One of those occasions Luddly and I see eye to eye on something,

But how do we teach that?

 

[Statistikhengst]

And even a discussion about civility turns uncivil. Why am I not surprised.

Well moving that to a philosophical discussion rather than specifics, the trick is not to participate in it. Hard to do sometimes. Even harder when some seem to be doing their damndest to provoke a fight and evenmoreso when they collaborate on how to accomplish it. But that is all illustrative of the whole topic of incivility. At some point, I think we as a society have to decide to be the adults in the room and not allow others to determine how we will behave.

In fact that is probably the key to the whole problem of incivility. Choosing to be the adults in the room and not allow others to determine how we will behave.

But how do we teach that?

We teach by example. Just like the ancients did.

 

[Bfgrn]

 

[ChrisL]

I didn't choose any options because I would have to choose them all. I think the reason depends upon the person and circumstances.

Well the poll did allow people to choose all that apply. I chose several when I answered on it. And if you change your mind about something during the course of the discussion, there is an option to change your choices

Okay, I chose all of them. I also chose other for mental illness, alcoholism, drug addiction. I think we've all seen posts from those people too.