Is there any country in the world that blacks...

[Decus]

Countries in Africa are unable to find solutions to quell the ethnic and tribal strife that has plagued the continent for centuries. Tribalism and ethnicity have huge influence throughout Africa. There are approximately 400 different tribes but not all speak the same language as it is estimated that there are over 1500 different languages and dialects spoken.

Colonialists didn't fail to root out Africa's tribal politics. They created it. | African Arguments

In the West, rulers used notions of race to subjugate black people. In Africa, they used ethnicity. Standing in line at a Nairobi polling station to cast my ballot in Kenya’s 2017 presidential election, I struck up a conversation with fellow voters in the queue. The result was a foregone...

africanarguments.org

I understand Africa may not seem like the most suitable alternative for many black Americans. Are there any other countries that you can think of that might be?

Greenland?? Few people live there and there is lots of room to build.

.

 

[Dadoalex]

The "QUESTION" poses false equivalences.

PoC should NEVER object to the obvious racism pervasive in this country.
Because
Other places are worse

This is a straw man argument based on your own prejudices.

Do you believe America is the most racist country in the world?

don't know.
Only been to Only been to around a dozen countries

Do you believe there is no racism in America?
If so, why?
If you do believe there is racism in America are you willing to accept that fact without trying to change it?
and
If so...
Whatcha gonna do in a few years when White people are on the short end of that stick?

 

[TheParser]

Many (most?) people of the ethnicity under discussion no doubt realize how lucky they were born in this country.

As the saying goes, some of them are badmouthing the United States just to be badmouthing it.

You could never get them to go elsewhere.

Most of them have good jobs and nice homes and lots of money for leisure-time activities.

Life is good for them here.

 

[Dadoalex]

You are making a statement.
Your question would be "objected" in court as leading and calling for a conclusion without evidence.
Your question is not a question it is a statement.

Firstly, a question that's considered "leading the witness" during a trial or deposition puts words in the mouth of the witness or suggests an answer, neither of which are applicable here. You've injected a statement into a question that doesn't exist based on your own prejudices and preconceptions.

Do I personally believe that America is systemically racist? No. Do I believe America affords black American's opportunities to succeed? Yes. Those are my opinions; however, if I had a preconceived idea of how I think blacks should or shouldn't answer the question, I wouldn't ask it. I'm genuinely interested in their answer. But you're not answering the question that was asked. You've constructed a textbook example of a straw man argument.

You're saying PoC in this country should be grateful for the racism they experience every day and should thank the White man for letting him wipe up the crumbs from his table.

That's what you think I'm saying based on your projected prejudices, and I sense that you aren't going to provide an answer to the question that was actually asked.

The "QUESTION" poses false equivalences.

PoC should NEVER object to the obvious racism pervasive in this country.
Because
Other places are worse

Oh praise the White Man. He takes care of them Nigras. And, if once in a while then Nigras got to be put in their place that the price they got to pay to live in FREEDOM.

Well, if we can't do better than this it's time to let "them" takeover.

You're black, aren't you?

Does that matter?
Why does it matter?
Would it make the words more or less true if I were Black, Asian, or a Vulcan or a Klingon?

If you see wrong and you fail to step in to stop it, you are neither Christian nor American.

 

[Bojingles]

Only been to around a dozen countries

Okay. I'm not sure which countries you visited, but how racist do you think America is by comparison, assuming you have any thoughts on it?

Do you believe there is no racism in America?

There are undoubtedly racist elements in America. You can see it on this forum, for example. But I also think there's a lot of disagreement about what constitutes racism.

If you do believe there is racism in America are you willing to accept that fact without trying to change it?

This world is full of injustices. I can't change them all, nor do I have any inclination to try. I focus on the things I'm drawn to that I can affect within my circle of influence.

But at the end of the day, meaningful communication and understanding changes minds. Insults and invective only serve to shut them down.

 

[Dadoalex]

Only been to around a dozen countries

Okay. I'm not sure which countries you visited, but how racist do you think America is by comparison, assuming you have any thoughts on it?

Do you believe there is no racism in America?

There are undoubtedly racist elements in America. You can see it on this forum, for example. But I also think there's a lot of disagreement about what constitutes racism.

If you do believe there is racism in America are you willing to accept that fact without trying to change it?

This world is full of injustices. I can't change them all, nor do I have any inclination to try. I focus on the things I'm drawn to that I can affect within my circle of influence.

But at the end of the day, meaningful communication and understanding change minds. Insults and invective only serve to shut them down.

Worse by far except for Israel. Both sides suck.
Germany, Britain, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Cuba, Mexico, Canada, Finland, Iceland
Other than Britain I didn't notice anything I would call excessive. More like nervous curiosity.
Some examples in London but they were weird so I was never sure how to take it.

I consider injustice to my fellows a cause worthy of my interest.
As for do?

Ignoring it is as bad as doing it.
Sometimes people are not even aware they're doing it.
Like Trump when he was mocking the handicapped reporter.
I like to think that in his mind he was "only joking" and that people shouldn't get upset about it.
But
That type of thinking only serves to reinforce stereotypes that racism uses as its fulcrum.

I divide it into bigots and racists.
Bigots are simply ignorant. Not in a bad sort of way but as in don't actually know any of them so I'll rely on the stereotypes.
Racists, on the other hand, use race and racial stereotypes to enhance their own position and power.

The Royal Family (if you remember the tiff a few weeks back) are bigots. They are simply ignorant of anything but their own circle. So, when the prince bought home this mixed race woman the Royals had no idea how to act. Seriously it must have looked like a reboot of All in the Family or a remake of Guess Who's coming to Dinner. The young Prince and Princess took offense at what the Royals meant as innocent conversation, the Royals got defensive and the next thing you know we've got Royal bloomers flying from every flagpole. all because of some well meaning ignorance.

But then the racists joined the battle and made sure to stoke every ember. All so they could get a few ratings points or more eyeballs on their website.

When the words or deeds are present, we must call them out. We don't have to be rude or aggressive about it but, if we just let it pass they remain ignorant.

And, once again, my confession.
I am a bigot. It was carved into me as a kid and is a part of who I am.
I have been on a 50+ year journey to recognize those parts of me and take control of them.
They are still part of me. They cannot be destroyed, only controlled.
Sometimes I admit I fail.
But I have managed to avoid (for the most part I hope) passing this on to my kids.
I am proud to say they are horrified at stuff I considered normal as a kid.

 

[Bojingles]

Worse by far except for Israel. Both sides suck.
Germany, Britain, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Cuba, Mexico, Canada, Finland, Iceland
Other than Britain I didn't notice anything I would call excessive. More like nervous curiosity.
Some examples in London but they were weird so I was never sure how to take it.

Thanks for the input.

I consider injustice to my fellows a cause worthy of my interest.
As for do?

If someone's being victimized in front of me, sure. But day to day life can be challenging enough without adding layers of additional causes to champion.

Ignoring it is as bad as doing it.

Everyone is guilty of ignoring injustice to a degree because there are far more causes to fight for in the world than one person can champion.

I divide it into bigots and racists.
Bigots are simply ignorant. Not in a bad sort of way but as in don't actually know any of them so I'll rely on the stereotypes. Racists, on the other hand, use race and racial stereotypes to enhance their own position and power.

If we're talking about racism, to me, it's based on the belief that race is the primary determinant of a person's traits and capabilities. A racist in power can prevent upward mobility of those they deem inferior, but those actions are always rooted in a core set of beliefs about race. Without those core beliefs, racism can't exist.

 

[Dadoalex]

Worse by far except for Israel. Both sides suck.
Germany, Britain, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Cuba, Mexico, Canada, Finland, Iceland
Other than Britain I didn't notice anything I would call excessive. More like nervous curiosity.
Some examples in London but they were weird so I was never sure how to take it.

...

If we're talking about racism, to me, it's based on the belief that race is the primary determinant of a person's traits and capabilities. A racist in power can prevent upward mobility of those they deem inferior, but those actions are always rooted in a core set of beliefs about race. Without those core beliefs, racism can't exist.

As PT Barnum said, "there's a sucker born every day."

No, not you.
But to deny that Trump and Rev Al are flip sides of the same coin is to grant to either far more credibility than they deserve.
To both their views on race are closely related to their views on what is best for them, today.
There are people that wholly believe racial myth. Black people are this, White people are this, Orientals are that...
and these people are incredibly easy to manipulate.
Which is why it is important for an old white guy like me to speak out.
The assumption from both sides is that I'm on "THAT SIDE"
But I was on "THAT SIDE"
And when I admit I freely used racist terms, told racist jokes, harassed Gays, was disrespectful to women I get some credibility when I admit I was wrong and apologize.
And that's why it's important.
If THOSE kind of people want to cut me out for speaking out I really don't consider it a loss.

But when my Karma train finally gets here it'll be an E Ticket!

 

[Bojingles]

As PT Barnum said, "there's a sucker born every day."

No, not you.
But to deny that Trump and Rev Al are flip sides of the same coin is to grant to either far more credibility than they deserve.

They're both very different people, I agree.

Is a position of power the problem in and of itself, though? Not in my opinion, because it's our values and beliefs that drive our actions. In terms of racism, core racist beliefs coupled with power result in similar outcomes for any race on the receiving end of them, regardless of skin color, in my opinion.

 

[Dadoalex]

As PT Barnum said, "there's a sucker born every day."

No, not you.
But to deny that Trump and Rev Al are flip sides of the same coin is to grant to either far more credibility than they deserve.

They're both very different people, I agree.

Is a position of power the problem in and of itself, though? Not in my opinion, because it's our values and beliefs that drive our actions. In terms of racism, core racist beliefs coupled with power result in similar outcomes for any race on the receiving end of them, regardless of skin color, in my opinion.

I don't think so.
When Black Africans won governing positions in South Africa they didn't move to destroy the White population.
Not saying there isn't racism but Black/Asian/South Asian and even in the Americas Anti-white racism doesn't seem as wide spread or a vile as White racism towards PoC.
France and most of Western Europe were, in the 1920s, places to which Black Americans with the resources could escape the White racism in the States.
Even in Uganda where the government implemented a great many anti-White policies, they didn't hang, burn down the towns, or put White people in prison.
But White racism towards PoC? We're seeing all of that boil up in Britain, France, Germany and beginning to approach the violence and suppression we see in this country.

I have no solutions.
I've been studying this in myself for 40 years and I still find those thoughts creeping in.

But, I see less intolerance in younger people (even though they're intolerable as a group) so, over time, like the gall bladder, it'll just disappear from the species except for a few throwbacks.

 

[Bojingles]

When Black Africans won governing positions in South Africa they didn't move to destroy the White population.

Destruction of any race would be considered genocide, and you don't see that in the United States, either, but that's independent of whether those in power have racist beliefs resulting in outcomes that are unfavorable to those deemed undesirable.

Not saying there isn't racism but Black/Asian/South Asian and even in the Americas Anti-white racism doesn't seem as wide spread or a vile as White racism towards PoC.

Depends on what you're basing that on, in my opinion. This is one area where people disagree a lot.

Even in Uganda where the government implemented a great many anti-White policies, they didn't hang, burn down the towns, or put White people in prison.

Systemic racism doesn't always manifest in hangings and burning towns.

But White racism towards PoC? We're seeing all of that boil up in Britain, France, Germany and beginning to approach the violence and suppression we see in this country.

There's definitely a gulf between the way some people perceive racism towards people of color and the way it's perceived toward whites. The problem is, it's extremely difficult to have discussions about those differences and come to an understanding. But that's exactly what needs to happen. We need to be able to sit down and discuss the differences in a diplomatic way without becoming violent or confrontational.

 

[Dadoalex]

When Black Africans won governing positions in South Africa they didn't move to destroy the White population.

Destruction of any race would be considered genocide, and you don't see that in the United States, either, but that's independent of whether those in power have racist beliefs resulting in outcomes that are unfavorable to those deemed undesirable.

Not saying there isn't racism but Black/Asian/South Asian and even in the Americas Anti-white racism doesn't seem as wide spread or a vile as White racism towards PoC.

Depends on what you're basing that on, in my opinion. This is one area where people disagree a lot.

Even in Uganda where the government implemented a great many anti-White policies, they didn't hang, burn down the towns, or put White people in prison.

Systemic racism doesn't always manifest in hangings and burning towns.

But White racism towards PoC? We're seeing all of that boil up in Britain, France, Germany and beginning to approach the violence and suppression we see in this country.

There's definitely a gulf between the way some people perceive racism towards people of color and the way it's perceived toward whites. The problem is, it's extremely difficult to have discussions about those differences and come to an understanding. But that's exactly what needs to happen. We need to be able to sit down and discuss the differences in a diplomatic way without becoming violent or confrontational.

Equivocation is not helpful.

The discrimination of Whites toward PoC is historic, its effects devastating, and the long term results? Often genocidal.

You will not find in history:
PoC that purposely gave Whites blankets infected with deadly diseases;
PoC conducting STD experiments on unsuspecting Whites;
PoC killing Whites for trying to vote and so on and on and on ad infinitum.

Generally, when I hear a White person complain about discrimination, their complaint is centered on some PoC receiving the same opportunities as White people.

If you'd like to present a list of White discrimination grievances I'll listen.

Everyone on some level is a bigot. And within that group every racial group has its racists.
I accept that not all White people are racists but I do not accept that they are not Bigots
I'm a bigot, you're a bigot, he's a bigot and so forth. But, those denying their bigotry are in actuality, closet racists.
Being a bigot doesn't make one a bad person. Just uninformed.
If one cannot acknowledge those thoughts then one is unable to control the actions that follow.
Until we, as a people, can recognize our own bigotry any discussion actually brings more heat that cool.

Having Black people move into a neighborhood and home values fall is not the fault of the Black people.
It is the fault of the racism some bigots act on in not wanting to live near PoC that causes a reduction in demand and subsequent value loss..

An Aside
I live in Mount Lebanon, a Pittsburgh suburb, when news broke that Muhammad Ali (yeah that one) was considering buying a house there. Personally I thought it was fantastic but I was shocked to see the number of people who threatened to move if that "Ni****" moved in. I listened to the objections, I'd heard them all before and used them on occasion, but it confused me. I mean, Ali moves in, other famous athletes move in, rich hanger onners move in, then new business to serve the new money...We could have been Windmere North!

In any case, to sit down fruitfully, both sides need to recognize the righteousness of the other's position but, if White people cannot move off of the White race victimhood thing then I don't see PoC slowing in their demands for egalitarian treatment by government fiat.

 

[gtopa1]

Why on earth should people move in order to get a fair shake ?

That wasn't the point. I'm simply curious as to whether they believe there is any other country they could move to that's less racist and would afford them a greater opportunity to succeed. At this point, I tend to believe there's no place on Earth that would meet that criterion for many of them, but I could be wrong.

And now I'm curious, as a representative whitey presuming to speak for all the rest, do you believe there is any other country where you could move to that's less racist? How about one that would afford you a greater opportunity to succeed? And now, both combined? Are you feeling slightly embarrassed yet?

He's not the one grumbling about it. Just wondering how whites would go in Rhodesia......asking for a friend.

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

When Black Africans won governing positions in South Africa they didn't move to destroy the White population.

Destruction of any race would be considered genocide, and you don't see that in the United States, either, but that's independent of whether those in power have racist beliefs resulting in outcomes that are unfavorable to those deemed undesirable.

Not saying there isn't racism but Black/Asian/South Asian and even in the Americas Anti-white racism doesn't seem as wide spread or a vile as White racism towards PoC.

Depends on what you're basing that on, in my opinion. This is one area where people disagree a lot.

Even in Uganda where the government implemented a great many anti-White policies, they didn't hang, burn down the towns, or put White people in prison.

Systemic racism doesn't always manifest in hangings and burning towns.

But White racism towards PoC? We're seeing all of that boil up in Britain, France, Germany and beginning to approach the violence and suppression we see in this country.

There's definitely a gulf between the way some people perceive racism towards people of color and the way it's perceived toward whites. The problem is, it's extremely difficult to have discussions about those differences and come to an understanding. But that's exactly what needs to happen. We need to be able to sit down and discuss the differences in a diplomatic way without becoming violent or confrontational.

Equivocation is not helpful.

The discrimination of Whites toward PoC is historic, its effects devastating, and the long term results? Often genocidal.

You will not find in history:
PoC that purposely gave Whites blankets infected with deadly diseases;
PoC conducting STD experiments on unsuspecting Whites;
PoC killing Whites for trying to vote and so on and on and on ad infinitum.

Generally, when I hear a White person complain about discrimination, their complaint is centered on some PoC receiving the same opportunities as White people.

If you'd like to present a list of White discrimination grievances I'll listen.

Everyone on some level is a bigot. And within that group every racial group has its racists.
I accept that not all White people are racists but I do not accept that they are not Bigots
I'm a bigot, you're a bigot, he's a bigot and so forth. But, those denying their bigotry are in actuality, closet racists.
Being a bigot doesn't make one a bad person. Just uninformed.
If one cannot acknowledge those thoughts then one is unable to control the actions that follow.
Until we, as a people, can recognize our own bigotry any discussion actually brings more heat that cool.

Having Black people move into a neighborhood and home values fall is not the fault of the Black people.
It is the fault of the racism some bigots act on in not wanting to live near PoC that causes a reduction in demand and subsequent value loss..

An Aside
I live in Mount Lebanon, a Pittsburgh suburb, when news broke that Muhammad Ali (yeah that one) was considering buying a house there. Personally I thought it was fantastic but I was shocked to see the number of people who threatened to move if that "Ni****" moved in. I listened to the objections, I'd heard them all before and used them on occasion, but it confused me. I mean, Ali moves in, other famous athletes move in, rich hanger onners move in, then new business to serve the new money...We could have been Windmere North!

In any case, to sit down fruitfully, both sides need to recognize the righteousness of the other's position but, if White people cannot move off of the White race victimhood thing then I don't see PoC slowing in their demands for egalitarian treatment by government fiat.

DemoKKKrats have ALWAYS ben racist. Funny thing is Ali was against mixed marriage and anything that led to harmony between the races AT THAT TIME.



Greg

 

[Bojingles]

You will not find in history:
PoC that purposely gave Whites blankets infected with deadly diseases;
PoC conducting STD experiments on unsuspecting Whites;
PoC killing Whites for trying to vote and so on and on and on ad infinitum.

You may not find those specific examples, though whites have, at times(not systemically in the U.S. mind you), certainly been victims of violence and murder based solely on their race. I would contend that any group that has predominant governmental power and harbors racist beliefs toward a group or groups will likely either target them in some capacity or display a lack of empathy toward them, whether it's blacks, Jews, Asians, or potentially even whites. But at the end of the day, I simply don't believe power in and of itself is the problem. It's the coupling of power with racist beliefs.

Everyone on some level is a bigot. And within that group every racial group has its racists. I accept that not all White people are racists but I do not accept that they are not Bigots.

Definitionally, a bigot is someone who's adamantly devoted to their opinions and prejudices. The term can apply to any opinion, not just opinions about race, so it's possible to be a bigot and not be racist. Of course, if everyone is a bigot on some level and everyone belongs to a race, then it naturally follows that every person of every race is a bigot on some level.

Having Black people move into a neighborhood and home values fall is not the fault of the Black people. It is the fault of the racism some bigots act on in not wanting to live near PoC that causes a reduction in demand and subsequent value loss.

Personally, assuming that the maintenance and upkeep are maintained, I can't say that I've seen home values fall solely and exclusively in the last 15 or more years specifically because whites moved out of a neighborhood. Granted, that may have been the case a number of years ago, but not in recent years. That's just my experience, though.

In any case, to sit down fruitfully, both sides need to recognize the righteousness of the other's position but, if White people cannot move off of the White race victimhood thing then I don't see PoC slowing in their demands for egalitarian treatment by government fiat.

I think it's important for both sides to truly listen and try to understand. Racial issues will never be resolved until people can come to an understanding, and an understanding means just that. People often hear a lot of things that, on first listen, they vehemently disagree with, but the minute insults and attacks are exchanged, communication breaks down. It's absolutely vital for people of any race, including whites, to be able to air their feelings about racial issues without being attacked. It's important for people not just to be heard, but to feel heard. That's the only way we, as a society, are going to be able to move forward.

 

[Grumblenuts]

whether it's blacks, Jews, Asians, or potentially even whites. But at the end of the day, I simply don't believe power in and of itself is the problem. It's the coupling of power with racist beliefs.

I think it's important for both sides

Don't mind me.. just adding more notable quotables..

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

In America, systemic racism is often blamed for disparities in the black community, so I ask you... is there any country in the world that blacks believe is free of racism (systemic or otherwise) and that they can thrive financially? Is there anywhere on the planet that blacks feel they can succeed and live happily?

I am trying to understand the thinking behind the OP.
Are you trying to highlight the extent of racism in the World ?
Or.
Are you making a case that America is so much better for Black folks to live ?

It is the latter you suicide bomb wearing jackass. Learn to read.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

The "QUESTION" poses false equivalences.

PoC should NEVER object to the obvious racism pervasive in this country.
Because
Other places are worse

This is a straw man argument based on your own prejudices.

Do you believe America is the most racist country in the world?

don't know.
Only been to Only been to around a dozen countries

Do you believe there is no racism in America?
If so, why?
If you do believe there is racism in America are you willing to accept that fact without trying to change it?
and
If so...
Whatcha gonna do in a few years when White people are on the short end of that stick?

He said systematic racism not “no racism” learn to read caddokid. If the system is racist there would be different laws for blacks, whites, Jews, etc. Yet we all have the same legal rights. Hmmmmm…..

 

[Bojingles]

Don't mind me.

 

[James Price]

In America, systemic racism is often blamed for disparities in the black community, so I ask you... is there any country in the world that blacks believe is free of racism (systemic or otherwise) and that they can thrive financially? Is there anywhere on the planet that blacks feel they can succeed and live happily?

The real question is:

Is there any country in the world where blacks are succeeding and thriving as a group?