Is this a fair representative of Christianity?

[Ravi]

To be fair, Hortysir, most Christians being told that it's all been done for them and that Jesus is even going to keep the commandments for us, he'll overcome for us, he'll deny himself once again so that we don't have to - and so on........it's simply not true but understandable that if we would believe such a thing we would not be taking this as a message of life and death - as we should be - because truly - God isn't grading on a curve. We are going to have to strive to enter into the narrow gate - the narrow path - we are going to have to do this because it will be far too late to prepare once disaster is upon us. When persecution hits the church? I expect more than half to deny Christ and go home to their families rather than to tough it out. If they are told to take the mark or they won't have their homes, their jobs, their children, their food? And they believe this lie of once saved always saved? They may even take the mark - (RFID Chip manufactured by Lucent Technologies and already being tested) - it is very serious. We are going to have to take the scriptures as they were meant to be taken. Literally.

I know He tells us to go and ain no more.
But we're humans.
We backslide. We stumble and fall.

We are saved by His Grace, not by our acts

What is the point of avoiding sin then?

 

[sealybobo]

unkoshergrl thinks she speaks for all of Christianity

Christians view any marriage they participate in as a sacrament.

The problem with redefining marriage is that in redefining marriage, and then determining this new definition has civil rights attached to it, the state is forcing Christians to commit sacrilege, or be penalized under the law. Which is why we objected in the first place. And it's only been how many days???? And you see the screechers already calling for the heads of Christians if they don't participate and endorse.

Koshergrl is the kind of "Christian" that gives sealybobo and Derideo_Te a whole lotta fucking ammo to use against me when the three of us engage in a rational and productive discussion on religion. She is about in stage two of James Fowler's stages of faith and I doubt she will ever advance to stage three.

Who is James Fowler?

Google is your friend. Search "James Fowler Stages of Faith". You will never look at people of faith the same way again. Understand that most people never advance beyond stage three. Most posters on USMB are stuck in stage three and will probably never advance. A few have. JakeStarkey and Meriweather are both well into stage four at least. Maybe even stage five TrinityPower is into stage four but just barely.

Are these stages anything like the stages of cancer or Alzheimers? Lol

 

[sealybobo]

I just bought the book anyways. It was $0.01 + $3.99 shipping. It should be a good use of $4.00.

Lol you get what you pay for

 

[sealybobo]

I just bought the book anyways. It was $0.01 + $3.99 shipping. It should be a good use of $4.00.

That's money well spent if you really want to understand the mind of the faithful. Now don't misunderstand...being at a higher level does not mean you are "better" than those at a lower level. It just means you understand things in a far different way.

This thread was started about Koshergrl...she is stuck in stage two. I am in stage five, TrinityPower is in four. @Meriwether and @Jake_Starkey are in four of five. It doesn't make us "better" or more "in with God". It just means we understand on a level that Koshergrl can't yet understand. Her mind is not programmed that way. She is walking her path the best way she knows how and so we should not condemn her for that. It's just that her capacity for understanding is at a very low and primitive level. Trying to discuss Biblical history with her, trying to discuss the differences between the Essenes, Ebionites, Pharisees, Marcionites, Sadducees, etc....trying to discuss the complexities of translating from Hebrew to Greek to Latin back to Greek and to English....pfft. It's beyond her comprehension. This is WAY too advanced for her to understand.

She is following according to her capacity for understanding. We should not beat the hell out of her for that because she is trying the only way she knows how. We should pat her on the head and say "you are making a good effort" and just let it be. People like her are not to be taken seriously as representative of the faith. They are to be taken as people who try hard to understand and we should give them credit for their efforts even though they don't grasp the concept.

See what I am getting at?

It sounds condescending to me. None of us like koshergrl but you just creatively called her an idiot with a passive-aggressive tone.

Call it as you will I guess, but do you really think she is representative of the community of faith? Let's call a spade a spade. Elevated topics are beyond her comprehension and when she chimes in it does nothing but distract from the opportunity for learning on both sides of the debate because now we have to backtrack and, once again, demonstrate the invalid nature of her arguments. It's a terrible distraction for those of us who want to understand alternate viewpoints. sealybobo and Derideo_Te, for example, don't agree but they DO wish to understand the Christian point of view. That is to their credit because they are willing to listen and consider and identify how that viewpoint affects their lives.

How do they deal with Koshergrl? There is no way to deal with her. Hell I am a Christian and I can't deal with her. How could atheists possibly deal with her? She eliminates any possibility of common ground and mutual understanding. Were my comments condescending? Yes. Was I wrong? You tell me. The topic of this thread boils down to "is Koshergrl a fair representation of Christians?" The answer is "hell no". But again she is not to be condemned for that. It;s all she can handle. It's the best her intelligence can do.

What percentage of Christians do you think are real and get it properly? I'm listening to religious radio driving to work for example. Would you endorse this station? There is religious TV shows on religious channels on TV. Do you endorse any of them? Do any of them speak for you? Does the Pope speak for you the head of the Baptist Church how about Presbyterian Lutheran Protestant. Greek Orthodox? Jewish? Get my point?

 

[PratchettFan]

I just bought the book anyways. It was $0.01 + $3.99 shipping. It should be a good use of $4.00.

That's money well spent if you really want to understand the mind of the faithful. Now don't misunderstand...being at a higher level does not mean you are "better" than those at a lower level. It just means you understand things in a far different way.

This thread was started about Koshergrl...she is stuck in stage two. I am in stage five, TrinityPower is in four. @Meriwether and @Jake_Starkey are in four of five. It doesn't make us "better" or more "in with God". It just means we understand on a level that Koshergrl can't yet understand. Her mind is not programmed that way. She is walking her path the best way she knows how and so we should not condemn her for that. It's just that her capacity for understanding is at a very low and primitive level. Trying to discuss Biblical history with her, trying to discuss the differences between the Essenes, Ebionites, Pharisees, Marcionites, Sadducees, etc....trying to discuss the complexities of translating from Hebrew to Greek to Latin back to Greek and to English....pfft. It's beyond her comprehension. This is WAY too advanced for her to understand.

She is following according to her capacity for understanding. We should not beat the hell out of her for that because she is trying the only way she knows how. We should pat her on the head and say "you are making a good effort" and just let it be. People like her are not to be taken seriously as representative of the faith. They are to be taken as people who try hard to understand and we should give them credit for their efforts even though they don't grasp the concept.

See what I am getting at?

It sounds condescending to me. None of us like koshergrl but you just creatively called her an idiot with a passive-aggressive tone.

Call it as you will I guess, but do you really think she is representative of the community of faith? Let's call a spade a spade. Elevated topics are beyond her comprehension and when she chimes in it does nothing but distract from the opportunity for learning on both sides of the debate because now we have to backtrack and, once again, demonstrate the invalid nature of her arguments. It's a terrible distraction for those of us who want to understand alternate viewpoints. sealybobo and Derideo_Te, for example, don't agree but they DO wish to understand the Christian point of view. That is to their credit because they are willing to listen and consider and identify how that viewpoint affects their lives.

How do they deal with Koshergrl? There is no way to deal with her. Hell I am a Christian and I can't deal with her. How could atheists possibly deal with her? She eliminates any possibility of common ground and mutual understanding. Were my comments condescending? Yes. Was I wrong? You tell me. The topic of this thread boils down to "is Koshergrl a fair representation of Christians?" The answer is "hell no". But again she is not to be condemned for that. It;s all she can handle. It's the best her intelligence can do.

What percentage of Christians do you think are real and get it properly? I'm listening to religious radio driving to work for example. Would you endorse this station? There is religious TV shows on religious channels on TV. Do you endorse any of them? Do any of them speak for you? Does the Pope speak for you the head of the Baptist Church how about Presbyterian Lutheran Protestant. Greek Orthodox? Jewish? Get my point?

I'm not getting your point at all. But I have to wonder why you are listening to religious radio.

 

[sealybobo]

I just bought the book anyways. It was $0.01 + $3.99 shipping. It should be a good use of $4.00.

That's money well spent if you really want to understand the mind of the faithful. Now don't misunderstand...being at a higher level does not mean you are "better" than those at a lower level. It just means you understand things in a far different way.

This thread was started about Koshergrl...she is stuck in stage two. I am in stage five, TrinityPower is in four. @Meriwether and @Jake_Starkey are in four of five. It doesn't make us "better" or more "in with God". It just means we understand on a level that Koshergrl can't yet understand. Her mind is not programmed that way. She is walking her path the best way she knows how and so we should not condemn her for that. It's just that her capacity for understanding is at a very low and primitive level. Trying to discuss Biblical history with her, trying to discuss the differences between the Essenes, Ebionites, Pharisees, Marcionites, Sadducees, etc....trying to discuss the complexities of translating from Hebrew to Greek to Latin back to Greek and to English....pfft. It's beyond her comprehension. This is WAY too advanced for her to understand.

She is following according to her capacity for understanding. We should not beat the hell out of her for that because she is trying the only way she knows how. We should pat her on the head and say "you are making a good effort" and just let it be. People like her are not to be taken seriously as representative of the faith. They are to be taken as people who try hard to understand and we should give them credit for their efforts even though they don't grasp the concept.

See what I am getting at?

It sounds condescending to me. None of us like koshergrl but you just creatively called her an idiot with a passive-aggressive tone.

Call it as you will I guess, but do you really think she is representative of the community of faith? Let's call a spade a spade. Elevated topics are beyond her comprehension and when she chimes in it does nothing but distract from the opportunity for learning on both sides of the debate because now we have to backtrack and, once again, demonstrate the invalid nature of her arguments. It's a terrible distraction for those of us who want to understand alternate viewpoints. sealybobo and Derideo_Te, for example, don't agree but they DO wish to understand the Christian point of view. That is to their credit because they are willing to listen and consider and identify how that viewpoint affects their lives.

How do they deal with Koshergrl? There is no way to deal with her. Hell I am a Christian and I can't deal with her. How could atheists possibly deal with her? She eliminates any possibility of common ground and mutual understanding. Were my comments condescending? Yes. Was I wrong? You tell me. The topic of this thread boils down to "is Koshergrl a fair representation of Christians?" The answer is "hell no". But again she is not to be condemned for that. It;s all she can handle. It's the best her intelligence can do.

Depends on what state you're talking about and what group of humans are doing the thinking. I guess the point you're trying to make is that if you don't like a religion your hearing keep looking until you find one that you do like. Well what if I feel like they all come with a huge fatal flaw? For example there may not be a creator. Because let's face it the stories in all of these dates books are all made up stories so what evidence do you even have there's a God or that it cares about you? Something may have created the universe BFD. Now if you want to talk about being a good person you can completely leave the guide scenario out and we can begin discussion

 

[sealybobo]

I just bought the book anyways. It was $0.01 + $3.99 shipping. It should be a good use of $4.00.

That's money well spent if you really want to understand the mind of the faithful. Now don't misunderstand...being at a higher level does not mean you are "better" than those at a lower level. It just means you understand things in a far different way.

This thread was started about Koshergrl...she is stuck in stage two. I am in stage five, TrinityPower is in four. @Meriwether and @Jake_Starkey are in four of five. It doesn't make us "better" or more "in with God". It just means we understand on a level that Koshergrl can't yet understand. Her mind is not programmed that way. She is walking her path the best way she knows how and so we should not condemn her for that. It's just that her capacity for understanding is at a very low and primitive level. Trying to discuss Biblical history with her, trying to discuss the differences between the Essenes, Ebionites, Pharisees, Marcionites, Sadducees, etc....trying to discuss the complexities of translating from Hebrew to Greek to Latin back to Greek and to English....pfft. It's beyond her comprehension. This is WAY too advanced for her to understand.

She is following according to her capacity for understanding. We should not beat the hell out of her for that because she is trying the only way she knows how. We should pat her on the head and say "you are making a good effort" and just let it be. People like her are not to be taken seriously as representative of the faith. They are to be taken as people who try hard to understand and we should give them credit for their efforts even though they don't grasp the concept.

See what I am getting at?

It sounds condescending to me. None of us like koshergrl but you just creatively called her an idiot with a passive-aggressive tone.

Call it as you will I guess, but do you really think she is representative of the community of faith? Let's call a spade a spade. Elevated topics are beyond her comprehension and when she chimes in it does nothing but distract from the opportunity for learning on both sides of the debate because now we have to backtrack and, once again, demonstrate the invalid nature of her arguments. It's a terrible distraction for those of us who want to understand alternate viewpoints. sealybobo and Derideo_Te, for example, don't agree but they DO wish to understand the Christian point of view. That is to their credit because they are willing to listen and consider and identify how that viewpoint affects their lives.

How do they deal with Koshergrl? There is no way to deal with her. Hell I am a Christian and I can't deal with her. How could atheists possibly deal with her? She eliminates any possibility of common ground and mutual understanding. Were my comments condescending? Yes. Was I wrong? You tell me. The topic of this thread boils down to "is Koshergrl a fair representation of Christians?" The answer is "hell no". But again she is not to be condemned for that. It;s all she can handle. It's the best her intelligence can do.

What percentage of Christians do you think are real and get it properly? I'm listening to religious radio driving to work for example. Would you endorse this station? There is religious TV shows on religious channels on TV. Do you endorse any of them? Do any of them speak for you? Does the Pope speak for you the head of the Baptist Church how about Presbyterian Lutheran Protestant. Greek Orthodox? Jewish? Get my point?

I'm not getting your point at all. But I have to wonder why you are listening to religious radio.

I love religious radio and religious TV. It is fascinating to me that all of you are worshiping something that doesn't even exist. It's holding us back too by the way. It's keeping us an ignorant species not advancing as fast as we could or should

 

[sealybobo]

I just bought the book anyways. It was $0.01 + $3.99 shipping. It should be a good use of $4.00.

That's money well spent if you really want to understand the mind of the faithful. Now don't misunderstand...being at a higher level does not mean you are "better" than those at a lower level. It just means you understand things in a far different way.

This thread was started about Koshergrl...she is stuck in stage two. I am in stage five, TrinityPower is in four. @Meriwether and @Jake_Starkey are in four of five. It doesn't make us "better" or more "in with God". It just means we understand on a level that Koshergrl can't yet understand. Her mind is not programmed that way. She is walking her path the best way she knows how and so we should not condemn her for that. It's just that her capacity for understanding is at a very low and primitive level. Trying to discuss Biblical history with her, trying to discuss the differences between the Essenes, Ebionites, Pharisees, Marcionites, Sadducees, etc....trying to discuss the complexities of translating from Hebrew to Greek to Latin back to Greek and to English....pfft. It's beyond her comprehension. This is WAY too advanced for her to understand.

She is following according to her capacity for understanding. We should not beat the hell out of her for that because she is trying the only way she knows how. We should pat her on the head and say "you are making a good effort" and just let it be. People like her are not to be taken seriously as representative of the faith. They are to be taken as people who try hard to understand and we should give them credit for their efforts even though they don't grasp the concept.

See what I am getting at?

It sounds condescending to me. None of us like koshergrl but you just creatively called her an idiot with a passive-aggressive tone.

Call it as you will I guess, but do you really think she is representative of the community of faith? Let's call a spade a spade. Elevated topics are beyond her comprehension and when she chimes in it does nothing but distract from the opportunity for learning on both sides of the debate because now we have to backtrack and, once again, demonstrate the invalid nature of her arguments. It's a terrible distraction for those of us who want to understand alternate viewpoints. sealybobo and Derideo_Te, for example, don't agree but they DO wish to understand the Christian point of view. That is to their credit because they are willing to listen and consider and identify how that viewpoint affects their lives.

How do they deal with Koshergrl? There is no way to deal with her. Hell I am a Christian and I can't deal with her. How could atheists possibly deal with her? She eliminates any possibility of common ground and mutual understanding. Were my comments condescending? Yes. Was I wrong? You tell me. The topic of this thread boils down to "is Koshergrl a fair representation of Christians?" The answer is "hell no". But again she is not to be condemned for that. It;s all she can handle. It's the best her intelligence can do.

What percentage of Christians do you think are real and get it properly? I'm listening to religious radio driving to work for example. Would you endorse this station? There is religious TV shows on religious channels on TV. Do you endorse any of them? Do any of them speak for you? Does the Pope speak for you the head of the Baptist Church how about Presbyterian Lutheran Protestant. Greek Orthodox? Jewish? Get my point?

I'm not getting your point at all. But I have to wonder why you are listening to religious radio.

Blue phantom suggest that anybody not preaching properly doesn't get it but that it's true I'm talking about religion. And believe in God. Well I listen to religious programs all the time and all of them in my opinion blue would say they are not preaching proper word of God. So that would make blue a very small minority who actually preaches the proper word of God or a kind of God a loving God not a fire and brimstone God says you're going to burn in hell for being gay or whatever

 

[Derideo_Te]

Trust me I wish I had some so I could shut you guys up.

That feeling is mutual!

 

[Derideo_Te]

unkoshergrl thinks she speaks for all of Christianity

Christians view any marriage they participate in as a sacrament.

The problem with redefining marriage is that in redefining marriage, and then determining this new definition has civil rights attached to it, the state is forcing Christians to commit sacrilege, or be penalized under the law. Which is why we objected in the first place. And it's only been how many days???? And you see the screechers already calling for the heads of Christians if they don't participate and endorse.

Koshergrl is the kind of "Christian" that gives sealybobo and Derideo_Te a whole lotta fucking ammo to use against me when the three of us engage in a rational and productive discussion on religion. She is about in stage two of James Fowler's stages of faith and I doubt she will ever advance to stage three.

Who is James Fowler?

Google is your friend. Search "James Fowler Stages of Faith". You will never look at people of faith the same way again

BTW I am in stage five.

And I am stage SEVEN!

 

[Derideo_Te]

I just bought the book anyways. It was $0.01 + $3.99 shipping. It should be a good use of $4.00.

That's money well spent if you really want to understand the mind of the faithful. Now don't misunderstand...being at a higher level does not mean you are "better" than those at a lower level. It just means you understand things in a far different way.

This thread was started about Koshergrl...she is stuck in stage two. I am in stage five, TrinityPower is in four. @Meriwether and @Jake_Starkey are in four of five. It doesn't make us "better" or more "in with God". It just means we understand on a level that Koshergrl can't yet understand. Her mind is not programmed that way. She is walking her path the best way she knows how and so we should not condemn her for that. It's just that her capacity for understanding is at a very low and primitive level. Trying to discuss Biblical history with her, trying to discuss the differences between the Essenes, Ebionites, Pharisees, Marcionites, Sadducees, etc....trying to discuss the complexities of translating from Hebrew to Greek to Latin back to Greek and to English....pfft. It's beyond her comprehension. This is WAY too advanced for her to understand.

She is following according to her capacity for understanding. We should not beat the hell out of her for that because she is trying the only way she knows how. We should pat her on the head and say "you are making a good effort" and just let it be. People like her are not to be taken seriously as representative of the faith. They are to be taken as people who try hard to understand and we should give them credit for their efforts even though they don't grasp the concept.

See what I am getting at?

It sounds condescending to me. None of us like koshergrl but you just creatively called her an idiot with a passive-aggressive tone.

Call it as you will I guess, but do you really think she is representative of the community of faith? Let's call a spade a spade. Elevated topics are beyond her comprehension and when she chimes in it does nothing but distract from the opportunity for learning on both sides of the debate because now we have to backtrack and, once again, demonstrate the invalid nature of her arguments. It's a terrible distraction for those of us who want to understand alternate viewpoints. sealybobo and Derideo_Te, for example, don't agree but they DO wish to understand the Christian point of view. That is to their credit because they are willing to listen and consider and identify how that viewpoint affects their lives.

How do they deal with Koshergrl? There is no way to deal with her. Hell I am a Christian and I can't deal with her. How could atheists possibly deal with her? She eliminates any possibility of common ground and mutual understanding. Were my comments condescending? Yes. Was I wrong? You tell me. The topic of this thread boils down to "is Koshergrl a fair representation of Christians?" The answer is "hell no". But again she is not to be condemned for that. It;s all she can handle. It's the best her intelligence can do.

How do they deal with Koshergrl? There is no way to deal with her. Hell I am a Christian and I can't deal with her. How could atheists possibly deal with her? She eliminates any possibility of common ground and mutual understanding. ​

KG is a bitter woman who has a grudge against everyone who doesn't agree with her. Inside she is actually a caring person who would do anything for her loved ones. (She posted about that herself in the Tavern thread back in 2013 for those who mistakenly believe that I am violating any rules here.) She hides her true self behind an aggressive exterior because she is afraid to show any weakness.

As an atheist I just laugh at her antics. No, she doesn't represent Christianity IMO. She is a parody of a Christian. She is the Chick tracts cartoon of USMB. Her language in the OP exposes that she is unChristian in both word and thought.

As far as common ground goes I actually did manage to find some with her back in the Tavern thread. It had nothing whatsoever to do with religion and everything to do with just basic humanity. KG is not a bad person, she just sucks at being a good representative of Christianity here in USMB.

 

[Derideo_Te]

But patting someone on the head who puts herself forward as a representative of God while she is doing it so badly, that I don't understand.

It is one of the mistakes that Christians make all the time IMO.

When they don't call out the unChristian behavior of the KG's they actually do more harm to Christianity that good because they give the impression of condoning her appalling hate filled language.

When Ghandi said, "I like your Christ but not your Christians", it was KG he was talking about.

 

[BluePhantom]

I just bought the book anyways. It was $0.01 + $3.99 shipping. It should be a good use of $4.00.

That's money well spent if you really want to understand the mind of the faithful. Now don't misunderstand...being at a higher level does not mean you are "better" than those at a lower level. It just means you understand things in a far different way.

This thread was started about Koshergrl...she is stuck in stage two. I am in stage five, TrinityPower is in four. @Meriwether and @Jake_Starkey are in four of five. It doesn't make us "better" or more "in with God". It just means we understand on a level that Koshergrl can't yet understand. Her mind is not programmed that way. She is walking her path the best way she knows how and so we should not condemn her for that. It's just that her capacity for understanding is at a very low and primitive level. Trying to discuss Biblical history with her, trying to discuss the differences between the Essenes, Ebionites, Pharisees, Marcionites, Sadducees, etc....trying to discuss the complexities of translating from Hebrew to Greek to Latin back to Greek and to English....pfft. It's beyond her comprehension. This is WAY too advanced for her to understand.

She is following according to her capacity for understanding. We should not beat the hell out of her for that because she is trying the only way she knows how. We should pat her on the head and say "you are making a good effort" and just let it be. People like her are not to be taken seriously as representative of the faith. They are to be taken as people who try hard to understand and we should give them credit for their efforts even though they don't grasp the concept.

See what I am getting at?

It sounds condescending to me. None of us like koshergrl but you just creatively called her an idiot with a passive-aggressive tone.

Call it as you will I guess, but do you really think she is representative of the community of faith? Let's call a spade a spade. Elevated topics are beyond her comprehension and when she chimes in it does nothing but distract from the opportunity for learning on both sides of the debate because now we have to backtrack and, once again, demonstrate the invalid nature of her arguments. It's a terrible distraction for those of us who want to understand alternate viewpoints. sealybobo and Derideo_Te, for example, don't agree but they DO wish to understand the Christian point of view. That is to their credit because they are willing to listen and consider and identify how that viewpoint affects their lives.

How do they deal with Koshergrl? There is no way to deal with her. Hell I am a Christian and I can't deal with her. How could atheists possibly deal with her? She eliminates any possibility of common ground and mutual understanding. Were my comments condescending? Yes. Was I wrong? You tell me. The topic of this thread boils down to "is Koshergrl a fair representation of Christians?" The answer is "hell no". But again she is not to be condemned for that. It;s all she can handle. It's the best her intelligence can do.

What percentage of Christians do you think are real and get it properly? I'm listening to religious radio driving to work for example. Would you endorse this station? There is religious TV shows on religious channels on TV. Do you endorse any of them? Do any of them speak for you? Does the Pope speak for you the head of the Baptist Church how about Presbyterian Lutheran Protestant. Greek Orthodox? Jewish? Get my point?

Well there was a woman in Great Britain who did a study on just how many people of any faith truly understood and "got" their professed religion. I can't remember her name off the top of my head...I literally just woke up. But she found that it was about 3% with another 10% or so who had a very good understanding. It was a fascinating study. I will see if I can track it down for you when I wake up.

I don't endorse any religious TV shows and yes I get your point.

 

[BluePhantom]

I guess the point you're trying to make is that if you don't like a religion your hearing keep looking until you find one that you do like. Well what if I feel like they all come with a huge fatal flaw?

That's actually very common for those with an advanced level of faith according to Fowler. Those who progress to stage four and above find that all religions have a fatal flaw because they were created by someone else. Therefore a "cookie cutter Christian" so to speak is not having a personal relationship with God, they are borrowing the relationship that someone else had. So at stage four one tends to dismiss organized religions and they start to...well...kind of create their own version of it based on what is personal and what they truly believe in instead of what they have been told to believe by an external authority figure.

So I guess my answer to your question would be...take what you can accept, leave the rest, and fill in the gaps with what you and God can agree upon.

 

[BluePhantom]

I just bought the book anyways. It was $0.01 + $3.99 shipping. It should be a good use of $4.00.

That's money well spent if you really want to understand the mind of the faithful. Now don't misunderstand...being at a higher level does not mean you are "better" than those at a lower level. It just means you understand things in a far different way.

This thread was started about Koshergrl...she is stuck in stage two. I am in stage five, TrinityPower is in four. @Meriwether and @Jake_Starkey are in four of five. It doesn't make us "better" or more "in with God". It just means we understand on a level that Koshergrl can't yet understand. Her mind is not programmed that way. She is walking her path the best way she knows how and so we should not condemn her for that. It's just that her capacity for understanding is at a very low and primitive level. Trying to discuss Biblical history with her, trying to discuss the differences between the Essenes, Ebionites, Pharisees, Marcionites, Sadducees, etc....trying to discuss the complexities of translating from Hebrew to Greek to Latin back to Greek and to English....pfft. It's beyond her comprehension. This is WAY too advanced for her to understand.

She is following according to her capacity for understanding. We should not beat the hell out of her for that because she is trying the only way she knows how. We should pat her on the head and say "you are making a good effort" and just let it be. People like her are not to be taken seriously as representative of the faith. They are to be taken as people who try hard to understand and we should give them credit for their efforts even though they don't grasp the concept.

See what I am getting at?

It sounds condescending to me. None of us like koshergrl but you just creatively called her an idiot with a passive-aggressive tone.

Call it as you will I guess, but do you really think she is representative of the community of faith? Let's call a spade a spade. Elevated topics are beyond her comprehension and when she chimes in it does nothing but distract from the opportunity for learning on both sides of the debate because now we have to backtrack and, once again, demonstrate the invalid nature of her arguments. It's a terrible distraction for those of us who want to understand alternate viewpoints. sealybobo and Derideo_Te, for example, don't agree but they DO wish to understand the Christian point of view. That is to their credit because they are willing to listen and consider and identify how that viewpoint affects their lives.

How do they deal with Koshergrl? There is no way to deal with her. Hell I am a Christian and I can't deal with her. How could atheists possibly deal with her? She eliminates any possibility of common ground and mutual understanding. Were my comments condescending? Yes. Was I wrong? You tell me. The topic of this thread boils down to "is Koshergrl a fair representation of Christians?" The answer is "hell no". But again she is not to be condemned for that. It;s all she can handle. It's the best her intelligence can do.

How do they deal with Koshergrl? There is no way to deal with her. Hell I am a Christian and I can't deal with her. How could atheists possibly deal with her? She eliminates any possibility of common ground and mutual understanding. ​

KG is a bitter woman who has a grudge against everyone who doesn't agree with her. Inside she is actually a caring person who would do anything for her loved ones. (She posted about that herself in the Tavern thread back in 2013 for those who mistakenly believe that I am violating any rules here.) She hides her true self behind an aggressive exterior because she is afraid to show any weakness.

As an atheist I just laugh at her antics. No, she doesn't represent Christianity IMO. She is a parody of a Christian. She is the Chick tracts cartoon of USMB. Her language in the OP exposes that she is unChristian in both word and thought.

As far as common ground goes I actually did manage to find some with her back in the Tavern thread. It had nothing whatsoever to do with religion and everything to do with just basic humanity. KG is not a bad person, she just sucks at being a good representative of Christianity here in USMB.

Oh I don't think she is a bad person. I hope that's not what came across. I just think she has a very primitive understanding of faith and her antics give the rest of us a very bad name

 

[sealybobo]

I guess the point you're trying to make is that if you don't like a religion your hearing keep looking until you find one that you do like. Well what if I feel like they all come with a huge fatal flaw?

That's actually very common for those with an advanced level of faith according to Fowler. Those who progress to stage four and above find that all religions have a fatal flaw because they were created by someone else. Therefore a "cookie cutter Christian" so to speak is not having a personal relationship with God, they are borrowing the relationship that someone else had. So at stage four one tends to dismiss organized religions and they start to...well...kind of create their own version of it based on what is personal and what they truly believe in instead of what they have been told to believe by an external authority figure.

So I guess my answer to your question would be...take what you can accept, leave the rest, and fill in the gaps with what you and God can agree upon.

Ok let's start from scratch. You tell me there's a God. How do you know there's a God? Did he visit you or your ancestors?

 

[TrinityPower]

I guess the point you're trying to make is that if you don't like a religion your hearing keep looking until you find one that you do like. Well what if I feel like they all come with a huge fatal flaw?

That's actually very common for those with an advanced level of faith according to Fowler. Those who progress to stage four and above find that all religions have a fatal flaw because they were created by someone else. Therefore a "cookie cutter Christian" so to speak is not having a personal relationship with God, they are borrowing the relationship that someone else had. So at stage four one tends to dismiss organized religions and they start to...well...kind of create their own version of it based on what is personal and what they truly believe in instead of what they have been told to believe by an external authority figure.

So I guess my answer to your question would be...take what you can accept, leave the rest, and fill in the gaps with what you and God can agree upon.

Ok let's start from scratch. You tell me there's a God. How do you know there's a God? Did he visit you or your ancestors?

I was not asked this but I will respond with a statement I heard recently. I can't be atheist. It takes too much faith. I am not trying to be sarcastic, it is a thought provoking statement. Whether God visited my ancestors or not is irrelevant really since I can safely bet you will say they were hallucinating or something.What I CAN tell you is that when you read the bible and see words on a page and reason it to be a story and that's all then that's all you will see. It comes down to how much you exercise faith but since you are saying you do not believe any of it things written in biblical texts will not have the same meaning for you as it does others. I can't make you believe in God and you can't convince me not to. It is a choice and because I choose it I find my life to be blessed and enriched and I see God in the unmaterial realm and the material realm more abundantly each day. I am at a point where I will share Jesus specifically with someone who asks but that my life and personality should be seen as an attraction to others and they too will want to know why I am blessed.

As for the other piece of this discussion about religious programs yes I do watch a couple and have for over 15 years. Has their teaching influenced me? Yes and I have applied what they have taught from the word and have many blessings from it. They also strongly encourage everyone to read their own bible daily and not just take their word for it. The people I listen to are not from a certain denomination and I define religious and spiritual differently. These people are not what I consider religious. And no I am not revealing who they are so they can be attacked.

I am open to discussion but not to attacks. If that rule of mine is not honored I take my ball and leave the discussion

 

[Derideo_Te]

I can't be atheist. It takes too much faith.

Ironic given that it takes zero faith to be an atheist but way too much faith to believe in something that doesn't actually exist anywhere but in your imagination.

Yes, I get that it was a joke but it is only funny to those who buy into religion.

From an atheist perspective it is an example of why theists feel threatened by science and knowledge.

As an atheist I will die defending the right of theists to believe whatever they like but I will fight just as hard to ensure that this nation upholds freedom FROM religion for everyone too.

 

[hortysir]

To be fair, Hortysir, most Christians being told that it's all been done for them and that Jesus is even going to keep the commandments for us, he'll overcome for us, he'll deny himself once again so that we don't have to - and so on........it's simply not true but understandable that if we would believe such a thing we would not be taking this as a message of life and death - as we should be - because truly - God isn't grading on a curve. We are going to have to strive to enter into the narrow gate - the narrow path - we are going to have to do this because it will be far too late to prepare once disaster is upon us. When persecution hits the church? I expect more than half to deny Christ and go home to their families rather than to tough it out. If they are told to take the mark or they won't have their homes, their jobs, their children, their food? And they believe this lie of once saved always saved? They may even take the mark - (RFID Chip manufactured by Lucent Technologies and already being tested) - it is very serious. We are going to have to take the scriptures as they were meant to be taken. Literally.

I know He tells us to go and ain no more.
But we're humans.
We backslide. We stumble and fall.

We are saved by His Grace, not by our acts

What is the point of avoiding sin then?

You still try and "go and ain no more".
But "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

Not perfect
Just forgiven

 

[Derideo_Te]

To be fair, Hortysir, most Christians being told that it's all been done for them and that Jesus is even going to keep the commandments for us, he'll overcome for us, he'll deny himself once again so that we don't have to - and so on........it's simply not true but understandable that if we would believe such a thing we would not be taking this as a message of life and death - as we should be - because truly - God isn't grading on a curve. We are going to have to strive to enter into the narrow gate - the narrow path - we are going to have to do this because it will be far too late to prepare once disaster is upon us. When persecution hits the church? I expect more than half to deny Christ and go home to their families rather than to tough it out. If they are told to take the mark or they won't have their homes, their jobs, their children, their food? And they believe this lie of once saved always saved? They may even take the mark - (RFID Chip manufactured by Lucent Technologies and already being tested) - it is very serious. We are going to have to take the scriptures as they were meant to be taken. Literally.

I know He tells us to go and ain no more.
But we're humans.
We backslide. We stumble and fall.

We are saved by His Grace, not by our acts

What is the point of avoiding sin then?

You still try and "go and ain no more".
But "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

Not perfect
Just forgiven

That doesn't count because a non existent entity can't forgive anything.

You need to ask for forgiveness from those you trespassed against instead.