Is this a fair representative of Christianity?

[Derideo_Te]

Once you realize you don't have the answers, and that there is a hole in your life nothing else can fill (only God can);

There is no hole in my life.

And if there was how could it be "filled" by something that doesn't exist?

Delusions of grandeur

WE are the ones with "Delusions of Grandeur" - we think we ARE GOD. Wrong!

How can we be wrong when we created God?

Isn't that the ultimate delusion of grandeur?

I really appreciate people like bonzi. Nice decent people who happen to believe in a creator. I totally get it as I too once believed. I just look around at Catholics, rattle snake holding Christians, born again, Muslims Mormons, how the Jews act in Israel. The song does anybody really know what time it is just came into my head. Chicago? Lol

I really don't see us moving forward as a species holding on to this delusion. I know it seems healthy to them but it doesn't to me. If it's not rational or logical why are we holding on to it? That's a rhetorical question because I know the answers. So I feel bad when I run into religious people like Fonzie because their intentions are good but I don't care what reason a lie is a lie no matter how good it makes you feel

I agree that people like Bonzi are well intentioned, unlike the subject of the OP.

It is the superficiality of their self delusion that is holding us back as a species. It is easier to dump all the problems on the sky fairy and let him deal with them rather than to address them and resolve them ourselves. And yes, they do this with all of the problems from the most irrelevant to the most intractable.

You had a spat with your girlfriend so pray to God to sort it out for you. Iran has the potential to become a nuclear armed state so let's pray to a Christian God, rather than a Muslim God, to sort it all out.

That is a childish approach to life IMO.

We are the adults and we are now in charge for better or worse. We have a duty to our descendants and to this planet to leave it a better place than we found it.

That means working out our problems and coming up with solutions for ourselves because trillions of prayers uttered by billions of theists haven't done squat to solve any single problem in the entire recorded history of mankind.

 

[sealybobo]

There is no hole in my life.

And if there was how could it be "filled" by something that doesn't exist?

Delusions of grandeur

WE are the ones with "Delusions of Grandeur" - we think we ARE GOD. Wrong!

How can we be wrong when we created God?

Isn't that the ultimate delusion of grandeur?

I really appreciate people like bonzi. Nice decent people who happen to believe in a creator. I totally get it as I too once believed. I just look around at Catholics, rattle snake holding Christians, born again, Muslims Mormons, how the Jews act in Israel. The song does anybody really know what time it is just came into my head. Chicago? Lol

I really don't see us moving forward as a species holding on to this delusion. I know it seems healthy to them but it doesn't to me. If it's not rational or logical why are we holding on to it? That's a rhetorical question because I know the answers. So I feel bad when I run into religious people like Fonzie because their intentions are good but I don't care what reason a lie is a lie no matter how good it makes you feel

I agree that people like Bonzi are well intentioned, unlike the subject of the OP.

It is the superficiality of their self delusion that is holding us back as a species. It is easier to dump all the problems on the sky fairy and let him deal with them rather than to address them and resolve them ourselves. And yes, they do this with all of the problems from the most irrelevant to the most intractable.

You had a spat with your girlfriend so pray to God to sort it out for you. Iran has the potential to become a nuclear armed state so let's pray to a Christian God, rather than a Muslim God, to sort it all out.

That is a childish approach to life IMO.

We are the adults and we are now in charge for better or worse. We have a duty to our descendants and to this planet to leave it a better place than we found it.

That means working out our problems and coming up with solutions for ourselves because trillions of prayers uttered by billions of theists haven't done squat to solve any single problem in the entire recorded history of mankind.

In the future instead of asking what would Jesus do maybe we'll just ask what would a good person do?

 

[sealybobo]

What purpose and meaning does believe in God give you? My life has purpose and meaning. Even without God my life has purpose and meaning. What is your purpose and meaning?

God himself. The perfect creator of all things. On this earth, telling people about Jesus and the great salvation that is offered as a free gift to all is purpose. To help effect a positive change on someone's life, knowing they will be fulfilled in ways they never knew possible. God is the purpose! Unless you love Him, it's impossible to understand.

I get it. It's like the guy who held those three women hostage for 10 years and torture them and raped them. One day he brings them home a little kitty cat. What does that cat give them? Purpose and meaning

Well, I'm not a theologian, preacher or I won't even say I'm the most mature Christian on the planet for sure, and, if what I am saying portrays that in your mind, probably best I don't talk because I'm obviously not doing God any favors! I hope you run into someone that will get you thinking about it one day though......

No you're doing alright. All I'm saying is like the kitty cat God gives you purpose in your life and meaning. You need it so who am I to tell you to stop. I just don't think that believe in God is good for humans. I think we could do better throwing that out. For example look at those Muslims in the Middle East cutting others heads off for their God. Look at all the racists down south who go to church on Sunday but Monday through Saturday they want to keep the Confederate flag flying. Clearly belief in God is not making them better people. It may give their life purpose and meaning but what that purpose and meaning is I have no idea

We should be loving each other and wanting what is best for each other.
In a Christian's mind, that is relationship with God and life everlasting.
Pretty much all I can say about it - we will all find out for certainty when we die, so, until then....

I need to wrap it up here, so, if I don't reply, know it's because I'm closing up shop. Have an appointment and then the rest of the day is filled with chores... yuck! May check in later.

Have a good day! Thanks for the discussion.

Do you speak for all people who call themselves Christians or just the ones that agree with you?

Couldn't you have just said in a humans mind we should be loving each other and wanting what's best for each other? See? No God necessary. Don't you think atheist agree with you? Buddhist Hindu Muslims? Do you think that is exclusively Christian?

 

[sealybobo]

What purpose and meaning does believe in God give you? My life has purpose and meaning. Even without God my life has purpose and meaning. What is your purpose and meaning?

God himself. The perfect creator of all things. On this earth, telling people about Jesus and the great salvation that is offered as a free gift to all is purpose. To help effect a positive change on someone's life, knowing they will be fulfilled in ways they never knew possible. God is the purpose! Unless you love Him, it's impossible to understand.

I get it. It's like the guy who held those three women hostage for 10 years and torture them and raped them. One day he brings them home a little kitty cat. What does that cat give them? Purpose and meaning

Well, I'm not a theologian, preacher or I won't even say I'm the most mature Christian on the planet for sure, and, if what I am saying portrays that in your mind, probably best I don't talk because I'm obviously not doing God any favors! I hope you run into someone that will get you thinking about it one day though......

No you're doing alright. All I'm saying is like the kitty cat God gives you purpose in your life and meaning. You need it so who am I to tell you to stop. I just don't think that believe in God is good for humans. I think we could do better throwing that out. For example look at those Muslims in the Middle East cutting others heads off for their God. Look at all the racists down south who go to church on Sunday but Monday through Saturday they want to keep the Confederate flag flying. Clearly belief in God is not making them better people. It may give their life purpose and meaning but what that purpose and meaning is I have no idea

We should be loving each other and wanting what is best for each other.
In a Christian's mind, that is relationship with God and life everlasting.
Pretty much all I can say about it - we will all find out for certainty when we die, so, until then....

I need to wrap it up here, so, if I don't reply, know it's because I'm closing up shop. Have an appointment and then the rest of the day is filled with chores... yuck! May check in later.

Have a good day! Thanks for the discussion.

What does life everlasting mean? Or what do you mean when you say it

 

[Meriweather]

I'm not angry at God. You have to believe in God to be angry at him. I don't think he exists.

So why are we paying for Adam and eves mistakes? You religious people talk about forgiveness and yet your God still holds a grudge from thousands of years ago?

Imagine ancient man sitting around a campfire reciting facts so information is passed on. Imagine youngsters whining, "Do I have to go to the evening fact recital?" Then someone has a brilliant idea of weaving facts into a story. The kids now happily join around the evening campfire. Grin. Okay, my imagination may be stretching a bit, but perhaps not by much. Break the story of Adam and Eve into facts and this is what we have. Adam means man (it didn't start out as a given name).

God created everything good. Man has a propensity to use good for evil purposes, disobeying God. This disobedience (or using things for an evil purpose) buts a distance between man and his ways and God and His ways.

Man (or at least many) want to be closer to God; God wants man to be closer to Him as well. Man starts sacrificing things to show shame and sorrow for wrong behavior. Yet the distance remains. God says, "I don't want burnt sacrifice, I want a contrite heart." Man doesn't get it, and continues offering sacrifice.

God ponders this for awhile, then sends His son (or a prophet for those who are not of the Christian faith) and teaches the people, "It is repentance (turning away from sin and to God) that heals the distance between God and man. Look people, sin/disobedience can enslave you. To live free of sin, you can't just go around submitting burnt offerings. You have to turn from sin and be obedient to God and His ways. This draws you closer to God.

So between Christianity and God allowing the Romans to burn down the Temple where these burnt offerings are taking place, people begin to get it. They understand that being human, they have this propensity to use something good for an evil purpose. However, they don't have to remain enslaved to that propensity. They can choose to use good for good; to return good for evil. They can repent (turn from evil) and God will forgive.

I think people of the Jewish faith have always had a good grasp that people do have to take responsibility to repent and seek forgiveness.

 

[Bonzi]

God himself. The perfect creator of all things. On this earth, telling people about Jesus and the great salvation that is offered as a free gift to all is purpose. To help effect a positive change on someone's life, knowing they will be fulfilled in ways they never knew possible. God is the purpose! Unless you love Him, it's impossible to understand.

I get it. It's like the guy who held those three women hostage for 10 years and torture them and raped them. One day he brings them home a little kitty cat. What does that cat give them? Purpose and meaning

Well, I'm not a theologian, preacher or I won't even say I'm the most mature Christian on the planet for sure, and, if what I am saying portrays that in your mind, probably best I don't talk because I'm obviously not doing God any favors! I hope you run into someone that will get you thinking about it one day though......

No you're doing alright. All I'm saying is like the kitty cat God gives you purpose in your life and meaning. You need it so who am I to tell you to stop. I just don't think that believe in God is good for humans. I think we could do better throwing that out. For example look at those Muslims in the Middle East cutting others heads off for their God. Look at all the racists down south who go to church on Sunday but Monday through Saturday they want to keep the Confederate flag flying. Clearly belief in God is not making them better people. It may give their life purpose and meaning but what that purpose and meaning is I have no idea

We should be loving each other and wanting what is best for each other.
In a Christian's mind, that is relationship with God and life everlasting.
Pretty much all I can say about it - we will all find out for certainty when we die, so, until then....

I need to wrap it up here, so, if I don't reply, know it's because I'm closing up shop. Have an appointment and then the rest of the day is filled with chores... yuck! May check in later.

Have a good day! Thanks for the discussion.

What does life everlasting mean? Or what do you mean when you say it

Live everlasting, actually applies to everyone to be honest. But, REAL life is life regenerated inside of you with the Holy spirit. Otherwise, life is empty and defeated. But still, it is everlasting (for everyone)

 

[Bonzi]

I agree that people like Bonzi are well intentioned, unlike the subject of the OP.

Thank you. I'm glad I'm coming across as genuine - even though you don't believe what I say, I'm glad I'm not coming across as a total pompous ass!

 

[Bonzi]

You had a spat with your girlfriend so pray to God to sort it out for you

Actually, no, this is not what you are supposed to do. As a Christian, you are not supposed to shut off your brain and wait for God to do the work.

If you have a spat with your girlfriend, you ask God to give you the wisdom and guidance to handle it according to his will. You may they feel you need to go a certain direction with it, and, if you are a Christian and in God's will, it will become clear what to do. Can one expect a non-Christian to understand without enlightenment? No.

 

[BluePhantom]

get in contact with my true beliefs

Ummmm...this might be a silly question but wouldn't you ever be in contact with your own "true beliefs"?

What am I missing here?

No I think there are people who try to believe something that in their hearts they don't really believe. They do this for any number of reasons; to fit in, because they have been taught it's what you should believe, fear perhaps...so there are those people in the community of faith that really don't believe, but they profess belief and perhaps even try to convince themselves that they do believe when deep in their hearts they don't.

So when I refer to getting in contact with my true beliefs I mean I have spent time in meditation and really being honest with myself and asking "what do you really believe Phantom?" And I have identified a lot of those true beliefs and accepted them. One example (and this belief would technically disqualify me from being a Christian) is that I do not believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus. I believe Jesus ascended spiritually, but I do not believe He did so in physical form. Why do I hold that belief? Because I spent time in prayer and meditation and decided..."you know....I am good with a lot of stuff about Jesus and God, but the physical resurrection isn't one of them. I aint buying that one". So that's what I am getting at

 

[Bonzi]

get in contact with my true beliefs

Ummmm...this might be a silly question but wouldn't you ever be in contact with your own "true beliefs"?

What am I missing here?

No I think there are people who try to believe something that in their hearts they don't really believe. They do this for any number of reasons; to fit in, because they have been taught it's what you should believe, fear perhaps...so there are those people in the community of faith that really don't believe, but they profess belief and perhaps even try to convince themselves that they do believe when deep in their hearts they don't.

So when I refer to getting in contact with my true beliefs I mean I have spent time in meditation and really being honest with myself and asking "what do you really believe Phantom?" And I have identified a lot of those true beliefs and accepted them. One example (and this belief would technically disqualify me from being a Christian) is that I do not believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus. I believe Jesus ascended spiritually, but I do not believe He did so in physical form. Why do I hold that belief? Because I spent time in prayer and meditation and decided..."you know....I am good with a lot of stuff about Jesus and God, but the physical resurrection isn't one of them. I aint buying that one". So that's what I am getting at

That representation of Hillary... shudder....

 

[Derideo_Te]

I agree that people like Bonzi are well intentioned, unlike the subject of the OP.

Thank you. I'm glad I'm coming across as genuine - even though you don't believe what I say, I'm glad I'm not coming across as a total pompous ass!

Trust me, if you were doing that I wouldn't be the only one pointing that out to you.

You aren't the one with a thread dedicated to you failings as a Christian as is happening to the OP subject.

You are doing just fine.

 

[Bonzi]

I agree that people like Bonzi are well intentioned, unlike the subject of the OP.

Thank you. I'm glad I'm coming across as genuine - even though you don't believe what I say, I'm glad I'm not coming across as a total pompous ass!

Trust me, if you were doing that I wouldn't be the only one pointing that out to you.

You aren't the one with a thread dedicated to you failings as a Christian as is happening to the OP subject.

You are doing just fine.

Aww... thanks DeTe...

 

[Derideo_Te]

Can one expect a non-Christian to understand without enlightenment? No.

Really?

All non-Christians lack enlightenment?

No wonder Ghandi was so unimpressed by all of the "enlightened" Christians who were screwing life up for tens of millions of devout Hindus.

 

[BluePhantom]

Do you see the word "church" in here:

"Full Definition of SACRAMENT
1
a : a Christian rite (as baptism or the Eucharist) that is believed to have been ordained by Christ and that is held to be a means of divine grace or to be a sign or symbol of a spiritual reality
b : a religious rite or observance comparable to a Christian sacrament "

?

Nope. You don't. Now go sit down, you piece of shit. You need to look up words before you presume to tell people what they mean.

You people do need to die.

Sacrament Definition of sacrament by Merriam-Webster

A fair representation of Christianity is this:

Acknowledging God is perfect in all ways and in control, that Jesus died for your sins and only through him will you be acceptable to God and living you life in obedience to God and His word.

That's ALL that is needed.

But he is not perfect in all ways. For example if I were God and the airplane on 9/11 was flying into the building? I would have stopped it. So in that way I'm better than God .
If I were God there would be no birth defects cancer or Alzheimers disease.

Your god isn't even close to being perfect.

Didn't he f*** up with the devil?

And how did Jesus die for my sins when I wasn't even born yet

Wow....there's a lot of stuff in there that is really a misunderstanding of Christianity. No one knows or should assume God's motives. The question of why God allows suffering and tragedy is something that has been pondered for thousands of years and no one has an answer. If we apply a little Taosim we find that what appears to be good can be very bad and what appears to be bad can turn out to be very good. There is the ancient example of the horse that ran away. That's sucked. But the horse came back with a mate of excellent stock. That's great. So the new horse threw the owner and crippled him. That sucks. But then the nation went to war and all the able bodied men went to fight and were killed, but the horse owner didn't go to fight because he was crippled. So he lived. That's great. And it goes on and on...but the point is that one never knows how things will turn out and what seems like a blessing today can turn out to be a nightmare and vice versa.

The devil was not part of the original Jewish belief system. The devil was created centuries later as a means to explain suffering and then hell was invented a few centuries after that. Hell and the devil are man made creations that attempt to explain why God allows suffering. Personally, I don't believe in either of them. I think everyone goes to heaven because there's nowhere else to go. So for me...just for me....God allows suffering because there is no real harm that can ever be done to the spirit. Harm can be done to us physically and emotionally, but when we die our spirits go back to God so in the grand scheme of things I think God views it in such a way that there really hasn't been any harm done. It sucks for us in our mortal existence and according to our physical understanding of the universe, but God views it differently because He is thinking on levels that we could not possibly comprehend. Now I don't know if that is the reason, but that's what makes sense to me.

As far as Jesus dying for your sins, boy that's a really long story. I will attempt brevity. Prior to Jesus, in order to get rid of your sins you had to go to the Temple, offer a sacrifice (usually a lamb or other small animal) and the priests would perform rites that cleansed you of your sins. Jesus became the sacrifice for all mankind. That's why you will sometimes hear Him referred to as the "lamb of God". Jesus became the sacrificial lamb on behalf of the sins of humanity for all times. Thus, there is no need to offer any further sacrifices or go the the priests to 'get to God'. The sacrifice has already been made and now we can go to God directly without having to go through the priests and performing rites etc. So through the sacrifice of Jesus, sin has been cleansed and man gains direct access to God. That's the short version.

 

[Derideo_Te]

get in contact with my true beliefs

Ummmm...this might be a silly question but wouldn't you ever be in contact with your own "true beliefs"?

What am I missing here?

No I think there are people who try to believe something that in their hearts they don't really believe. They do this for any number of reasons; to fit in, because they have been taught it's what you should believe, fear perhaps...so there are those people in the community of faith that really don't believe, but they profess belief and perhaps even try to convince themselves that they do believe when deep in their hearts they don't.

So when I refer to getting in contact with my true beliefs I mean I have spent time in meditation and really being honest with myself and asking "what do you really believe Phantom?" And I have identified a lot of those true beliefs and accepted them. One example (and this belief would technically disqualify me from being a Christian) is that I do not believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus. I believe Jesus ascended spiritually, but I do not believe He did so in physical form. Why do I hold that belief? Because I spent time in prayer and meditation and decided..."you know....I am good with a lot of stuff about Jesus and God, but the physical resurrection isn't one of them. I aint buying that one". So that's what I am getting at

Thank you for the clarification.

Yes, I was probably one of those you described who were taught what they were supposed to believe but never could buy into it.

Unlike you I chose to start believing in myself and what I could do for others. First and foremost I discovered that if I wanted to help others I needed to sort myself out. In that respect I made a pact with myself to never lie to myself under any circumstances, ever.

Then I decided I wasn't going to lie to anyone else either. (Yeah, that slammed a lot of doors to lucrative jobs I could have done but I have no regrets about that decision.) I am by nature a compassionate person so I do what I can for others. I don't do it out any sense of a "reward" and neither do I do it because of sense of compulsion. I just do it because there are people in need who I can help and so I volunteer and do whatever I can.

I make no attempt to reach them except on a human level. I don't expect anything in return because they are not in any position to give anything. They need my help and they get it without any strings attached.

 

[TrinityPower]

This is off the subject but I have to ask...why are those of you who are atheist all over the religious forums? If it is off the table for you then why are you still standing around the watering hole so to speak? Obviously there is something you seek.

 

[Derideo_Te]

get in contact with my true beliefs

Ummmm...this might be a silly question but wouldn't you ever be in contact with your own "true beliefs"?

What am I missing here?

No I think there are people who try to believe something that in their hearts they don't really believe. They do this for any number of reasons; to fit in, because they have been taught it's what you should believe, fear perhaps...so there are those people in the community of faith that really don't believe, but they profess belief and perhaps even try to convince themselves that they do believe when deep in their hearts they don't.

So when I refer to getting in contact with my true beliefs I mean I have spent time in meditation and really being honest with myself and asking "what do you really believe Phantom?" And I have identified a lot of those true beliefs and accepted them. One example (and this belief would technically disqualify me from being a Christian) is that I do not believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus. I believe Jesus ascended spiritually, but I do not believe He did so in physical form. Why do I hold that belief? Because I spent time in prayer and meditation and decided..."you know....I am good with a lot of stuff about Jesus and God, but the physical resurrection isn't one of them. I aint buying that one". So that's what I am getting at

That representation of Hillary... shudder....

How do you know that about Hillary?

Are you privy to her beliefs?

Are you aware that her deeply held faith is what motivates her to public service?

Why do you judge others when you don't know what they believe?

 

[BluePhantom]

I really appreciate people like bonzi. Nice decent people who happen to believe in a creator. I totally get it as I too once believed.

I really want to second this. Bonzi is a person I really respect. I don't always agree with her views...she and I have knocked heads a few times but from my end there was no animosity or vitriol attached. She appears to me to be a very good person with a genuine faith. She's one of the good ones.

 

[Bonzi]

Can one expect a non-Christian to understand without enlightenment? No.

Really?

All non-Christians lack enlightenment?

No wonder Ghandi was so unimpressed by all of the "enlightened" Christians who were screwing life up for tens of millions of devout Hindus.

Screw you! (kidding....)

I don't mean the "enlightenment" that to sound condescending (thought I know it does) - it's hard "knowing" the truth and trying to explain it to others. I'm a MESS I mean it De... really a MESS but I do know the truth. Even with God as my guide, it's hard! I wish I could explain it better. I just hope that someone out there can.. there are really good strong Christians out there.... I just hope they can make an impact... I know they can.....

 

[Bonzi]

I really appreciate people like bonzi. Nice decent people who happen to believe in a creator. I totally get it as I too once believed.

I really want to second this. Bonzi is a person I really respect. I don't always agree with her views...she and I have knocked heads a few times but from my end there was no animosity or vitriol attached. She appears to me to be a very good person with a genuine faith. She's one of the good ones.

Aww... seriously you guys are going to make me cry.... thank you Blue