Israel to pay students to defend it online

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Roudy -

It was after 3000 years, in 1948 that invading Arabs changed correct name of the region, the name Judaea and Samaria of Ancient Israel, to this made up name "West Bank"

So it is not true that first Herotodus and then Romans used the term "Palestine" dating back five centuries before Christ?

Also, if Arabs only used the term 'Palestine' from 1948, why was the Mandate region called 'Palestine' from 1918?
 
Roudy -

It was after 3000 years, in 1948 that invading Arabs changed correct name of the region, the name Judaea and Samaria of Ancient Israel, to this made up name "West Bank"

So it is not true that first Herotodus and then Romans used the term "Palestine" dating back five centuries before Christ?

Also, if Arabs only used the term 'Palestine' from 1948, why was the Mandate region called 'Palestine' from 1918?
Been there done that, like five times. Today's Arabs are not related to ancient Palestinians, they are Arabs identical to their neighboring Arabs in every way. In fact prior to Yasser Arafat hijacking the name Palestinian as an identity for his people, most Arabs considered it an insult to be called by that name, because it usually meant They were being called a Jew.
 
There has never been an Arab Palestine. Israel became Jewish Palestine and Jordan became Arab Palestine...As planned by league of nations and administered by those who controlled the land. Arabs had no control or ownership of the land for 800 years.

Muslims ruled Palestine for more than 1,200 years, 300+ years more than the Jews.

Between 1949 and 1967, the United States considered the West Bank to be Arab Palestine.

So, basically you admit Palestine is Jordan.

Nice touche.

Now we're getting somewhere.
 
Been there done that, like five times. Today's Arabs are not related to ancient Palestinians, they are Arabs identical to their neighboring Arabs in every way. In fact prior to Yasser Arafat hijacking the name Palestinian as an identity for his people, most Arabs considered it an insult to be called by that name, because it usually meant They were being called a Jew.

If Yasser Arafat "hi-jacked" the term - why was it in such common use at the turn of the century,even before he was born? Why was the Mandate termed 'Palestine'?

Is it not true that there were Palestinian national newspapers being printed before WWI?

btw, Austrians are similar to Germans in every way. Does Austria not exist?
 
This is the kind of excuse you expect from a child. This is a defense of "they were bad because they were abused as a child."

Nonsense.
That's not it at all. Arabs didn't, all of a sudden, become hostile towards zionists. They became hostile for a reason. And that reason was zionists being hostile towards them, terrorizing their residents, driving them off their land, refusing to allow the ones not driven off, to work on jewish land. Practicing racist and apartheid policies.

Your scenario is when a child strikes at someone else who is totally unrelated to his abuse and someone is just making excuses for his actions. If someone grows up as an abused child, it doesn't give them the right to rob a bank or murder someone they're angry with. But rising up against the person directly related to the childs abuse, is not the same thing.

Do you think it is wrong for a child to strike back at the one who was abusing him for years? Do you think the kids who were molested by Jerry Sandusky, don't have a right to kick his ass? Well, zionists have been abusing the arabs ever since they migrated into the area and those arabs had every right to defend themselves.

Let me put it this way, there were no major incidents of violence between arabs and jews living in that area, until the zionists showed up.



You keep saying that, it doesn't make it true. GA RES 181(II) was never supposed to be a binding resolution (a command). It was a resolution that made an offer and could be accepted or rejected. The Jewish Agency Accepted and the Arab High Committee rejected. The first implementation meeting (UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION) set up by the Security Council A/AC.21/7 29 January 1948 recorded the acceptance and rejection.

The Security Council, after "having received and considered the application of Israel for membership in the United Nations," favorably recommended the membership to the GA.

It was later that the PLO used it as the instrument for establishing the State of Palestine. And, again, a decade later, acknowledged it again.
Offers, are not enforcable. Non-binding resolutions, are not enforcable. 181, carry's no legal weight whatsoever. So why keep talking as though it does?



Believe what you want. When I talked of an Illusion, this is exactly the kind of logic to which I was referring. You don't even acknowledge your own leadership.
You lost me here.

I have no idea what you're talking about.


But you can be invited to immigrate and acquire the same rights.
Not when you violate the terms of the immigration laws at the time. And no one said you could strip the indigenous population of their rights.



The intention was simple. Everyone knew them. To establish a Jewish National Home.
At the expense of the non-jewish population already living there for generations.


In what official forum have they said that?
Here's one of them...


[in 2008] Hamas accepted a Palestinian state based on internationally recognized (pre-1967) borders, in accordance with UN resolutions, with full sovereignty and its capital in Jerusalem, but this has been ignored. Hamas also offered a 10-year truce, also ignored.
...but it's a ridiculous conversation. As long as Israel maintains the occupation, there's no reason for peace. Israel has to end the occupation before any negotiations on a lasting peace can even start. The first step is Israel's, not the Palestinian's.

You better read your own web site:
My own website? What are you talking about?


HAMAS and FATAH say a lot of things, then turn around and say something different. It is not uncommon with Palestinians. They reject, GA/RES/181, then the accept it, then they use it, and now you reject it. It is a familiar pattern.
Don't even go there.

The Israeli's have a long list of re-neging on their agreements.


If you are Palestinian, and you even look like you're going into the Levant Basin, you're in trouble. HAMAS is, and has been, an asymmetric fighting activity that openly promotes Jihad. Why would anyone risk letting them into the Basin with all that investment there? That would be an unacceptable risk. It would be like opening the doors of a bank to thieves.
I'm not talking about Levant Basin. I'm talking about Gazan territorial waters. Which extends to only 3 miles off their shore. International law allows 12 miles, but the Israeli's only allow Gazans 3. And in that 3 mile limit, they shoot at their fisherman. How fucked is someone, who shoots at people fishing?

I'm glad you at least admit there is violence on both sides. On that, we are in agreement.
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a citation from a "School Textbook," not a treaty, not a Convention, not a UN Resolution. It is a school "essay" by a Jesuit Priest, advisor to Rome and law professor.

Show me where it says they need permission from Palestinians for those border agreements to be valid

States shall take resolute steps to eliminate the massive and flagrant violations of the human rights of peoples and human beings affected by situations such as those resulting from apartheid, all forms of racism and racial discrimination, colonialism, foreign domination and occupation, aggression, foreign interference and threats against national sovereignty, national unity and territorial integrity, threats of war and refusal to recognize the fundamental right of peoples to self-determination.

http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1770&context=ilj
(QUESTIONS)

  • What basic question does this passage answer?
  • What allegation against Israel does it challenge?

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, this is from an essay by a law professor titled:

SOVEREIGNTY, HUMAN RIGHTS, AND SELF-DETERMINATION:
THE MEANING OF INTERNATIONAL LAW

Even though Palestine was not mentioned in this essay, my quote above is the most succinct definition of the situation in Palestine that I have ever seen.
 
Toastman -

Now, show me where it says that permission was needed from the Palestinian Arabs, who had no sovereignty over the land, in order for the Israelis to declare borders in 1979 and 1994. Borders that are internationally recognized

Who recognises Israel's 'ownership' of the West Bank or Gaza?

I was talking about the borders between Israel & Egypt an Israel & Jordan
 
Toastman-

I would agree that Israel's borders with Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan are recognised, and thatwith Syria is largely agreed upon.

That said, I think it's fair to say that Israel's likely annexation of the West Bank will never be recognised by anyone.
 
Syria is and always has been a waste of good sand. I say pound Syria out of existence and then give it to the Pals or the Jews, either one works for me.
 
Hoffstra, et al,

Well, there is a certain amount of truth here.

So to recap Israelis indeed treating about 2 million Arabs with equality, and those who are upset are the ones that aren't Israelis, but Arabs who are paying for the consequence of joining with 5 Arab countries in attacking and trying to destroy Israel?

Now that would be a ridiculous assertion, that even if Israel gets attacked it still has get permission do what it wants for land it won in a defensive war. I bet the Arabs would have committed genocide on any Jew left in the land, had they been the victors.

Israelis cannot cite the Balfour Declaration and Palestine Mandate as justification and vindication for their settlement operations in the West Bank while at the same time disregarding the articles of those same agreemants that condition Jewish settlement in all of Palestine upon equal and fair treatment to the non-Jewish population.

They can't have their cake AND eat it too.
(COMMENT)

For most researchers, the reason the US and other countries see the West Bank and Gaza Strip as the "State of Palestine," is because those areas were:

  • Identified in Part II, Section A, of GA Resolution 181(II) as the Arab State.
  • And the Declaration of Independence for Palestine (Annex III, A/43/827 S/20278 18 November 1988), attached conditions of international legitimacy to GA Resolution 181(II) that outline the Arab State (Palestine) and "sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations."

As a general position, nearly everyone understood that customary law does not permit quasi-annexation by allowing its own civilian population into (by whatever mechanism) occupied territory for the purpose of establishing permanent residences. There has to be some special circumstances or overwhelming necessity, to justify the establishment of settlements. It was going to be an issue at some point and a matter of compensation and reparation.

(EPILOG SIDEBAR)

Israel may have struck-it rich. It has had several discoveries of natural gas in the Levant Basin in the last decade. About 30 of the 40 trillion cubic feet known now, of the gas discoveries to date are Israeli and could generate $300B in royalties on just the fractional portion of the findings that have been assessed; or more.

Most Respectfully,
R
How could those $300B in royalties be used to make amends for Israel's Original Sin?
Right of Return or Reparations?

"This growing violence culminated in Israel's ruthless 1947-49 'War of Independence,' in which at least 750,000 Palestinian men, women, and children were expelled from their homes by numerically superior Israeli forces – half before any Arab armies joined the war.

"This massive humanitarian disaster is known as ‘The Catastrophe,’ al Nakba in Arabic.8

"Zionist forces committed 33 massacres and destroyed 531 Palestinian towns. Author Norman Finkelstein states: 'According to the former director of the Israeli army archives, "in almost every village occupied by us during the War... acts were committed which are defined as war crimes, such as murders, massacres, and rapes"...Uri Milstein, the authoritative Israeli military historian of the 1948 war, goes one step further, maintaining that ‘every skirmish ended in a massacre of Arabs.'"

The Catastrophe - Al Nakba
 
Hoffstra, et al,

Well, there is a certain amount of truth here.

Israelis cannot cite the Balfour Declaration and Palestine Mandate as justification and vindication for their settlement operations in the West Bank while at the same time disregarding the articles of those same agreemants that condition Jewish settlement in all of Palestine upon equal and fair treatment to the non-Jewish population.

They can't have their cake AND eat it too.
(COMMENT)

For most researchers, the reason the US and other countries see the West Bank and Gaza Strip as the "State of Palestine," is because those areas were:

  • Identified in Part II, Section A, of GA Resolution 181(II) as the Arab State.
  • And the Declaration of Independence for Palestine (Annex III, A/43/827 S/20278 18 November 1988), attached conditions of international legitimacy to GA Resolution 181(II) that outline the Arab State (Palestine) and "sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations."

As a general position, nearly everyone understood that customary law does not permit quasi-annexation by allowing its own civilian population into (by whatever mechanism) occupied territory for the purpose of establishing permanent residences. There has to be some special circumstances or overwhelming necessity, to justify the establishment of settlements. It was going to be an issue at some point and a matter of compensation and reparation.

(EPILOG SIDEBAR)

Israel may have struck-it rich. It has had several discoveries of natural gas in the Levant Basin in the last decade. About 30 of the 40 trillion cubic feet known now, of the gas discoveries to date are Israeli and could generate $300B in royalties on just the fractional portion of the findings that have been assessed; or more.

Most Respectfully,
R
How could those $300B in royalties be used to make amends for Israel's Original Sin?
Right of Return or Reparations?

"This growing violence culminated in Israel's ruthless 1947-49 'War of Independence,' in which at least 750,000 Palestinian men, women, and children were expelled from their homes by numerically superior Israeli forces – half before any Arab armies joined the war.

"This massive humanitarian disaster is known as ‘The Catastrophe,’ al Nakba in Arabic.8

"Zionist forces committed 33 massacres and destroyed 531 Palestinian towns. Author Norman Finkelstein states: 'According to the former director of the Israeli army archives, "in almost every village occupied by us during the War... acts were committed which are defined as war crimes, such as murders, massacres, and rapes"...Uri Milstein, the authoritative Israeli military historian of the 1948 war, goes one step further, maintaining that ‘every skirmish ended in a massacre of Arabs.'"

The Catastrophe - Al Nakba

How come you never mention the massacres commited by the Palestinians ?
 
The 48 war was the was the result of the Palestinians together with their Arab allies to perform ethnic cleansing on the Jews and their failure to complete it.

Every single Jew in the parts of the Mandate seized by the Arabs was expelled from their homes. No exceptions. They even dynamited the entire ancient Jewish quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem in an attempt to wipe out the history of Jewish residence there.

They also made it illegal for a Jew to live in the areas of the former Mandate that they controlled, including East Jerusalem, West Bank, Gaza and Jordan.

850,000 Jews were also forced from the Arab countries.

After the 5 Arab armies attacked Israel in 48,
Haj Amin Al Husseini stated:
I declare a holy war, my muslim brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!
The Arab League Secretary, General Azzam Pasha declared “a holy war. He said, “This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.


CAMERA Snapshots: Distorted Quotes to Defend Distorted Maps
 
JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel is looking to hire university students to post pro-Israel messages on social media networks — without needing to identify themselves as government-linked, officials said Wednesday.

The Israeli prime minister's office said in a statement Wednesday that students on Israeli university campuses would receive full or partial scholarships to combat anti-Semitism and calls to boycott Israel online. It said students' messages would parallel statements by government officials.

"This is a groundbreaking project aimed at strengthening Israeli national diplomacy and adapting it to changes in information consumption," the statement said.
-----------------
Israel isn't the only country to set up such a system. In China, members of the so-caled "fifty cent army" sprinkle positive, pro-government messages across the web and social media.

Israel to pay students to defend it online

Birds of a feather...

How many Propaganda arms does one small country need, and why.

So?
 
JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel is looking to hire university students to post pro-Israel messages on social media networks — without needing to identify themselves as government-linked, officials said Wednesday.

The Israeli prime minister's office said in a statement Wednesday that students on Israeli university campuses would receive full or partial scholarships to combat anti-Semitism and calls to boycott Israel online. It said students' messages would parallel statements by government officials.

"This is a groundbreaking project aimed at strengthening Israeli national diplomacy and adapting it to changes in information consumption," the statement said.
-----------------
Israel isn't the only country to set up such a system. In China, members of the so-caled "fifty cent army" sprinkle positive, pro-government messages across the web and social media.

Israel to pay students to defend it online

Birds of a feather...

How many Propaganda arms does one small country need, and why.

So?

And some on here think some of the pro-Israel posters on here are being paid! One even panicked about it and started up a thread elsewhere about the subject.
 
Hoffstra, et al,

Well, there is a certain amount of truth here.

Israelis cannot cite the Balfour Declaration and Palestine Mandate as justification and vindication for their settlement operations in the West Bank while at the same time disregarding the articles of those same agreemants that condition Jewish settlement in all of Palestine upon equal and fair treatment to the non-Jewish population.

They can't have their cake AND eat it too.
(COMMENT)

For most researchers, the reason the US and other countries see the West Bank and Gaza Strip as the "State of Palestine," is because those areas were:

  • Identified in Part II, Section A, of GA Resolution 181(II) as the Arab State.
  • And the Declaration of Independence for Palestine (Annex III, A/43/827 S/20278 18 November 1988), attached conditions of international legitimacy to GA Resolution 181(II) that outline the Arab State (Palestine) and "sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations."

As a general position, nearly everyone understood that customary law does not permit quasi-annexation by allowing its own civilian population into (by whatever mechanism) occupied territory for the purpose of establishing permanent residences. There has to be some special circumstances or overwhelming necessity, to justify the establishment of settlements. It was going to be an issue at some point and a matter of compensation and reparation.

(EPILOG SIDEBAR)

Israel may have struck-it rich. It has had several discoveries of natural gas in the Levant Basin in the last decade. About 30 of the 40 trillion cubic feet known now, of the gas discoveries to date are Israeli and could generate $300B in royalties on just the fractional portion of the findings that have been assessed; or more.

Most Respectfully,
R
How could those $300B in royalties be used to make amends for Israel's Original Sin?
Right of Return or Reparations?

"This growing violence culminated in Israel's ruthless 1947-49 'War of Independence,' in which at least 750,000 Palestinian men, women, and children were expelled from their homes by numerically superior Israeli forces – half before any Arab armies joined the war.

"This massive humanitarian disaster is known as ‘The Catastrophe,’ al Nakba in Arabic.8

"Zionist forces committed 33 massacres and destroyed 531 Palestinian towns. Author Norman Finkelstein states: 'According to the former director of the Israeli army archives, "in almost every village occupied by us during the War... acts were committed which are defined as war crimes, such as murders, massacres, and rapes"...Uri Milstein, the authoritative Israeli military historian of the 1948 war, goes one step further, maintaining that ‘every skirmish ended in a massacre of Arabs.'"

The Catastrophe - Al Nakba

To use an old expression--the Palestinians gave as good as they got...and then some.
 
Hoffstra, et al,

Well, there is a certain amount of truth here.


(COMMENT)

For most researchers, the reason the US and other countries see the West Bank and Gaza Strip as the "State of Palestine," is because those areas were:

  • Identified in Part II, Section A, of GA Resolution 181(II) as the Arab State.
  • And the Declaration of Independence for Palestine (Annex III, A/43/827 S/20278 18 November 1988), attached conditions of international legitimacy to GA Resolution 181(II) that outline the Arab State (Palestine) and "sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations."

As a general position, nearly everyone understood that customary law does not permit quasi-annexation by allowing its own civilian population into (by whatever mechanism) occupied territory for the purpose of establishing permanent residences. There has to be some special circumstances or overwhelming necessity, to justify the establishment of settlements. It was going to be an issue at some point and a matter of compensation and reparation.

(EPILOG SIDEBAR)

Israel may have struck-it rich. It has had several discoveries of natural gas in the Levant Basin in the last decade. About 30 of the 40 trillion cubic feet known now, of the gas discoveries to date are Israeli and could generate $300B in royalties on just the fractional portion of the findings that have been assessed; or more.

Most Respectfully,
R
How could those $300B in royalties be used to make amends for Israel's Original Sin?
Right of Return or Reparations?

"This growing violence culminated in Israel's ruthless 1947-49 'War of Independence,' in which at least 750,000 Palestinian men, women, and children were expelled from their homes by numerically superior Israeli forces – half before any Arab armies joined the war.

"This massive humanitarian disaster is known as ‘The Catastrophe,’ al Nakba in Arabic.8

"Zionist forces committed 33 massacres and destroyed 531 Palestinian towns. Author Norman Finkelstein states: 'According to the former director of the Israeli army archives, "in almost every village occupied by us during the War... acts were committed which are defined as war crimes, such as murders, massacres, and rapes"...Uri Milstein, the authoritative Israeli military historian of the 1948 war, goes one step further, maintaining that ‘every skirmish ended in a massacre of Arabs.'"

The Catastrophe - Al Nakba

How come you never mention the massacres commited by the Palestinians ?

"Law of Return (1950)Grants right of immigration to Jews born anywhere in the world. Amended in 1970 to extend this right to 'a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew.'

"A 'Jew”' is defined as 'a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion.'

"Non-Jewish native-born Palestinians – most importantly those who fled during the Zionist massacres in 1947 and 1948 – are in most cases prevented from returning."

Israel's Apartheid Laws
 
georgephillip, et al,

It depends on the perspective and the outcome of mediation.

How could those $300B in royalties be used to make amends for Israel's Original Sin?
Right of Return or Reparations?
(COMMENT)

It would appear that, in some respects, both sides have claims for damages. It is not the case that it is a one-sided affair. Normally, the loser of a military engagement, pays the war indemnity; for the reparations in financial liability for damage caused, restitution for terrorist actions against non-combatants, and compensated by the property or monetary allowances for war damages.

It would seem clear, at the outset, that the Hostile Arab Palestinians owe more than the Israelis. But the Israelis may want to mitigate much of it in lieu of achieving more than the suggested HAMAS decade of peace.

"This growing violence culminated in Israel's ruthless 1947-49 'War of Independence,' in which at least 750,000 Palestinian men, women, and children were expelled from their homes by numerically superior Israeli forces – half before any Arab armies joined the war.
(COMMENT)

This is an argument juxtaposed. Quite frequently it is mentioned that the Partition was unfair because there were many, many more Arab than there were Jewish Immigrants. Yet, every loss and (alleged) massacre is based on the "numerically superior Israeli forces."

Arguments suggest that the Israelis started the (alleged) ethnic cleansing "before the war." Yet the first engagement was Hebron (1929) and 1929 Safed riots (1929); not excluding the Palestinian namesake today recognizes Izz ad-Din al-Qassam as well as Haj Amin Al-Husseini (the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem).

But even before then, one of the major incidents that triggered regimentation of Jewish Defense Forces was the inflammatory anti-Zionist rhetoric of Amin al-Husseini which instigated the April 1920, uprising in the Old City (Nebi Musa riots) that caused 50,000 Arabs to attack Jews. It was after these attacks that the Haganah (1920) emerged as a defense force. The Irgun (1931) did not emerge until the Black Hand of al-Qassam began operations.

The history is very clear on this point, despite the FAISAL-WEIZMANN AGREEMENT (3 January 1919) which pledged the "closest possible, collaboration in the development of the Arab State and Palestine," the Arab leadership was xenophobic and determined to exercise force in expelling the Jewish Immigrant. That legacy lives on today.

It must also be remembered that it is the "official policy" of HAMAS and the Palestinian National Authority to consider peaceful initiatives, peaceful solutions, conventions, proposals and international conferences as a waste of time and vain endeavors; in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) people, expressing themselves by armed Palestinian revolution, reject all solutions which are substitutes for the total liberation of Palestine and reject all proposals aimed at the liquidation of the Palestinian cause, or at its internationalization. The HoAP see Palestine as an indivisible part of the greater Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation; with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit. That is why we will never be able to rationally explain to our friend "P F Tinmore" the issue of boundaries.

Further, it is important to remember that, no matter what any other source may claim, it is the "official policy" of HAMAS and the Palestinian National Authority to achieve these objectives and goal, not through peaceful solutions, but through jihad and armed struggle. And I don't think that you will find any nation (outside the Arab World) that doesn't consider the "jihadist" as a "terrorist." Even within the Arab world, being a "jihadist" or a "muslim extremist" had dropped out of favor; for cause.

The "official policy" that makes the HoAP such a distinctive activity that uses the threat of violence for political purposes:

  • Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
  • There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.

This is the legacy of the HoAP; it is what defines them, and has defined them since the Nebi Musa riots (1920). Whatever else they may claim to be, as long as in the shadow their "official policy" is "jihad" and "armed struggle" --- they are a threat to humanity; and the human rights of every member of our species.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
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The name "West Bank" is a also new invention for Arabs, just as the label "Palestinian" is. It was after 3000 years, in 1948 that invading Arabs changed correct name of the region, the name Judaea and Samaria of Ancient Israel, to this made up name "West Bank".

Judaea and Samaria was never the common name for the West Bank.

Its a political invention of Judeo-Fascists.
 
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