Israeli Defense Minister HAMMERS obama

[toastman]

No George, that sounds more like an Arab Muslim mind of thing.

 

[Kondor3]

The Israelis tried for two decades (1948-1967) to make peace with the Palestinians before giving up on a comprehensive peace agreement...

The Israelis tried for another three decades (1967-2001) to make less ambitious peace arrangements, only to be met time-after-time with guerrilla warfare, suicide bombing campaigns, and rocket-barrage campaigns...

After a half-century of trying, the Israelis finally decided to wall-off the mad-dogs and crazies, via the West Bank Barrier and the Gaza Blockade, in order to minimize the Palestinians' ability to harm innocent Israeli citizens...

That's neither Apartheid nor Segregation...

That's a common-sense survival tactic...

Best to keep the mad dogs in their kennel...

The Egyptians and Jordians have come to realize this themselves, and are even collaborating with the Israelis in their monitoring, isolating and blockading efforts...

Ahhhhh... life is good.

 

[Roudy]

Think so, Toastie?
Currently there are equal numbers of Jews and non-Jews living between the River and the sea, and every single individual residing there lives under laws written, interpreted, and enforced by Jews, for Jews, and for the benefit of Jews at the expense of non-Jews.

Jewish state or Democratic state or official Apartheid state?

What does this lie have to do with my post??

1948

"The parliamentary election in South Africa on 26 May 1948 represented a turning point in the country's history. The United Party, which had led the government since its foundation in 1933, and its leader, incumbent Prime Minister Jan Smuts, were ousted by the Reunited National Party (Herenigde Nasionale Party in Afrikaans), led by Daniel Francois Malan, a Dutch Reformed cleric..."

"The HNP, realizing that many White South Africans felt threatened by black political aspirations, pledged to implement a policy of strict racial segregation in all spheres of living. The Nationalists labelled this new system of social organisation 'apartheid' ('apartness' or 'separation'), the name by which it became universally known."

Early Zionists would have felt at home, right Toastie?

South African general election, 1948 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wrong again Mohommod. Sounds more like Muslim treatment of non Muslims:

“Dhimmis were excluded from public office and armed service, and were forbidden to bear arms. They were not allowed to ride horses or camels, to build synagogues or churches taller than mosques, to construct houses higher than those of Muslims, or to drink wine in public. They were not allowed to pray or mourn in loud voices as that might offend the Muslims. The dhimmi had to show public deference toward Muslims, always yielding them the center of the road. The dhimmi was not allowed to give evidence in court against a Muslim, and his oath was unacceptable in an Islamic court. To defend himself the dhimmi would have to purchase Muslim witnesses at great expense. This left the dhimmi with little legal recourse when harmed by a Muslim. Dhimmis were also forced to wear distinctive clothing. In the ninth century, for example, Baghdad's Caliph al-Mutawakkil designated a yellow badge for Jews, setting a precedent that would be followed centuries later.”

Looks like the Muslims taught the Nazis a few things or two.

 

[aris2chat]

No, I posed a hypothetical as a test of common sense and manly character.

The results told me all that I'll ever need to know.

You're free to believe whatever you want to believe, but the minute you try to act like a hypothetical is a fact, I'm gonna call you out on it.

Allowing the Egyptians and Syrians to amass troops on the Israeli borders in 1967 was a fact...

Nassar publicly declaring, the week before, that the Arabs were preparing to annihilate Israel, was a fact...

The Egyptian Air Force making preparations to bomb Israeli cities and military bases, was a fact...

Israeli preemptive strikes against the Arabs in order to neutralize those assets before they could inflict the harm that Nassar promised was a fact...

You decrying those preemptive strikes was a fact...

You stating that you would have waited until the Egyptian Air Force had crossed into Israeli airspace was a fact...

Me confirming that by asking you if you would do so even if it cost the lives of hundred or thousands of your own civilians and the destruction of important targets and irreplaceable war assets and troop formations - just so that you could say you had abided-by the strict letter of international law - was a fact...

Your affirmative response to that confirmation-prompt was a fact...

My resultant assessment of your common sense and manly character is a fact...

I'll let you know when I've run out of facts, boy...

I have a copy of the operational orders (9 pages) for the Imam Ali ben Abi Taleb Brigade from June 1966. State of readiness was for dawn 26 May, 1967 "hour will be determined by the air force and air defense". It is a bad (blurred) copy in arabic. It has code words to start operation, destroy target, leave assembly area, leave embarkation area, back to reserve positions. The task orders called Hadhad was "The destruction of the colony (Motzah) and the killing of all its (800) inhabitants". The operation for Jordan was called Ra'ad. It's a lot of stuff about the air attack on Eilat, bombing of air fields, fuel tank and electrical power station. A lot of stuff about supplies, medical, administrative items involved in the operation. Rather hard to read and fully understand.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

You're free to believe whatever you want to believe, but the minute you try to act like a hypothetical is a fact, I'm gonna call you out on it.

Allowing the Egyptians and Syrians to amass troops on the Israeli borders in 1967 was a fact...

Nassar publicly declaring, the week before, that the Arabs were preparing to annihilate Israel, was a fact...

The Egyptian Air Force making preparations to bomb Israeli cities and military bases, was a fact...

Israeli preemptive strikes against the Arabs in order to neutralize those assets before they could inflict the harm that Nassar promised was a fact...

You decrying those preemptive strikes was a fact...

You stating that you would have waited until the Egyptian Air Force had crossed into Israeli airspace was a fact...

Me confirming that by asking you if you would do so even if it cost the lives of hundred or thousands of your own civilians and the destruction of important targets and irreplaceable war assets and troop formations - just so that you could say you had abided-by the strict letter of international law - was a fact...

Your affirmative response to that confirmation-prompt was a fact...

My resultant assessment of your common sense and manly character is a fact...

I'll let you know when I've run out of facts, boy...

I have a copy of the operational orders (9 pages) for the Imam Ali ben Abi Taleb Brigade from June 1966. State of readiness was for dawn 26 May, 1967 "hour will be determined by the air force and air defense". It is a bad (blurred) copy in arabic. It has code words to start operation, destroy target, leave assembly area, leave embarkation area, back to reserve positions. The task orders called Hadhad was "The destruction of the colony (Motzah) and the killing of all its (800) inhabitants". The operation for Jordan was called Ra'ad. It's a lot of stuff about the air attack on Eilat, bombing of air fields, fuel tank and electrical power station. A lot of stuff about supplies, medical, administrative items involved in the operation. Rather hard to read and fully understand.

It sounds like you are a technician of the least order. That is why you want to impose the harshest order upon the Palestinians.

 

[Roudy]

Allowing the Egyptians and Syrians to amass troops on the Israeli borders in 1967 was a fact...

Nassar publicly declaring, the week before, that the Arabs were preparing to annihilate Israel, was a fact...

The Egyptian Air Force making preparations to bomb Israeli cities and military bases, was a fact...

Israeli preemptive strikes against the Arabs in order to neutralize those assets before they could inflict the harm that Nassar promised was a fact...

You decrying those preemptive strikes was a fact...

You stating that you would have waited until the Egyptian Air Force had crossed into Israeli airspace was a fact...

Me confirming that by asking you if you would do so even if it cost the lives of hundred or thousands of your own civilians and the destruction of important targets and irreplaceable war assets and troop formations - just so that you could say you had abided-by the strict letter of international law - was a fact...

Your affirmative response to that confirmation-prompt was a fact...

My resultant assessment of your common sense and manly character is a fact...

I'll let you know when I've run out of facts, boy...

I have a copy of the operational orders (9 pages) for the Imam Ali ben Abi Taleb Brigade from June 1966. State of readiness was for dawn 26 May, 1967 "hour will be determined by the air force and air defense". It is a bad (blurred) copy in arabic. It has code words to start operation, destroy target, leave assembly area, leave embarkation area, back to reserve positions. The task orders called Hadhad was "The destruction of the colony (Motzah) and the killing of all its (800) inhabitants". The operation for Jordan was called Ra'ad. It's a lot of stuff about the air attack on Eilat, bombing of air fields, fuel tank and electrical power station. A lot of stuff about supplies, medical, administrative items involved in the operation. Rather hard to read and fully understand.

It sounds like you are a technician of the least order. That is why you want to impose the harshest order upon the Palestinians.

What is so harsh about the truth that was posted, QuickHitTampon?

 

[Billo_Really]

Allowing the Egyptians and Syrians to amass troops on the Israeli borders in 1967 was a fact...

Nassar publicly declaring, the week before, that the Arabs were preparing to annihilate Israel, was a fact...

The Egyptian Air Force making preparations to bomb Israeli cities and military bases, was a fact...

Israeli preemptive strikes against the Arabs in order to neutralize those assets before they could inflict the harm that Nassar promised was a fact...

You decrying those preemptive strikes was a fact...

You stating that you would have waited until the Egyptian Air Force had crossed into Israeli airspace was a fact...

Me confirming that by asking you if you would do so even if it cost the lives of hundred or thousands of your own civilians and the destruction of important targets and irreplaceable war assets and troop formations - just so that you could say you had abided-by the strict letter of international law - was a fact...

Your affirmative response to that confirmation-prompt was a fact...

My resultant assessment of your common sense and manly character is a fact...

I'll let you know when I've run out of facts, boy...

Why don't we cut the foreplay and get to the main fact that Israel started that war by firing the first shot.

 

[Hossfly]

Allowing the Egyptians and Syrians to amass troops on the Israeli borders in 1967 was a fact...

Nassar publicly declaring, the week before, that the Arabs were preparing to annihilate Israel, was a fact...

The Egyptian Air Force making preparations to bomb Israeli cities and military bases, was a fact...

Israeli preemptive strikes against the Arabs in order to neutralize those assets before they could inflict the harm that Nassar promised was a fact...

You decrying those preemptive strikes was a fact...

You stating that you would have waited until the Egyptian Air Force had crossed into Israeli airspace was a fact...

Me confirming that by asking you if you would do so even if it cost the lives of hundred or thousands of your own civilians and the destruction of important targets and irreplaceable war assets and troop formations - just so that you could say you had abided-by the strict letter of international law - was a fact...

Your affirmative response to that confirmation-prompt was a fact...

My resultant assessment of your common sense and manly character is a fact...

I'll let you know when I've run out of facts, boy...

Why don't we cut the foreplay and get to the main fact that Israel started that war by firing the first shot.

O.K. Then what?

 

[georgephillip]

Allowing the Egyptians and Syrians to amass troops on the Israeli borders in 1967 was a fact...

Nassar publicly declaring, the week before, that the Arabs were preparing to annihilate Israel, was a fact...

The Egyptian Air Force making preparations to bomb Israeli cities and military bases, was a fact...

Israeli preemptive strikes against the Arabs in order to neutralize those assets before they could inflict the harm that Nassar promised was a fact...

You decrying those preemptive strikes was a fact...

You stating that you would have waited until the Egyptian Air Force had crossed into Israeli airspace was a fact...

Me confirming that by asking you if you would do so even if it cost the lives of hundred or thousands of your own civilians and the destruction of important targets and irreplaceable war assets and troop formations - just so that you could say you had abided-by the strict letter of international law - was a fact...

Your affirmative response to that confirmation-prompt was a fact...

My resultant assessment of your common sense and manly character is a fact...

I'll let you know when I've run out of facts, boy...

Why don't we cut the foreplay and get to the main fact that Israel started that war by firing the first shot.

O.K. Then what?

Try honesty, Menachem

"Menachem Begin also stated that 'The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_Six-Day_War#Retrospective

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Why don't we cut the foreplay and get to the main fact that Israel started that war by firing the first shot.

O.K. Then what?

Try honesty, Menachem

"Menachem Begin also stated that 'The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.'"

Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good on Israel. Good military strategy. Pre-emptive strike or annihilation. Which to choose?!

 

[georgephillip]

O.K. Then what?

Try honesty, Menachem

"Menachem Begin also stated that 'The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.'"

Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good on Israel. Good military strategy. Pre-emptive strike or annihilation. Which to choose?!

False dilemma

 

[Kondor3]

Try honesty, Menachem

"Menachem Begin also stated that 'The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.'"

Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good on Israel. Good military strategy. Pre-emptive strike or annihilation. Which to choose?!

False dilemma

Well, that's ONE opinion.

Others hold differently, George, as a matter of conviction, rather than partisanship.

 

[georgephillip]

Good on Israel. Good military strategy. Pre-emptive strike or annihilation. Which to choose?!

False dilemma

Well, that's ONE opinion.

Others hold differently, George, as a matter of conviction, rather than partisanship.

Which conviction are you referring to, K3?

 

[Roudy]

Why don't we cut the foreplay and get to the main fact that Israel started that war by firing the first shot.

O.K. Then what?

Try honesty, Menachem

"Menachem Begin also stated that 'The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.'"

Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe the Arabs shouldn't have blocked the straight of Tiran, mobilized their armies at Israel's borders, and spewed rhetoric about pushing the Jews into the sea?

Those were all acts of war and direct threats to the survival of Israel. You don't have to fire first to start a war. Just as USSR brought its nuclear ICBM's into Cuba was an act of war and would have given the US the right to invade and / or attack had Russia not backed off.

Or did you think Israel was going to sit there and get sucker punched by the Arabs? Keep dreaming.

 

[toastman]

George, are you corgetting the fact that Egypt also close the Straits of Tiran, which Israel had said beforehand would be a declaration of war?

 

[Roudy]

Stop whining. Arabs got what they asked for. A royal kosher buttkicking.

 

[georgephillip]

O.K. Then what?

Try honesty, Menachem

"Menachem Begin also stated that 'The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.'"

Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe the Arabs shouldn't have blocked the straight of Tiran, mobilized their armies at Israel's borders, and spewed rhetoric about pushing the Jews into the sea?

Those were all acts of war and direct threats to the survival of Israel. You don't have to fire first to start a war. Just as USSR brought its nuclear ICBM's into Cuba was an act of war and would have given the US the right to invade and / or attack had Russia not backed off.

Or did you think Israel was going to sit there and get sucker punched by the Arabs? Keep dreaming.

Sucker punched like the Arabs in '56?

"The Suez Crisis, also referred to as the Tripartite Aggression, Suez Canal Crisis, Suez War, or Second Arab-Israeli War[13][14] (Arabic: أزمة السويس /* العدوان الثلاثي* Azmat al-Suways / al-ʻUdwān al-Thulāthī , "Suez Crisis"/ 'the Tripartite Aggression'; French: Crise du canal de Suez; Hebrew: מבצע קדש* Mivtza' Kadesh 'Operation Kadesh,' or מלחמת סיני Milẖemet Sinai, 'Sinai War'), was a diplomatic and military confrontation in late 1956 between Egypt on one side, and Britain, France and Israel on the other, with the United States, the Soviet Union, and the United Nations playing major roles in forcing Britain, France and Israel to withdraw."

Tell us how many Israeli flagged ships went through the Straits of Tiran during the two years prior to the '67 closing.

 

[georgephillip]

George, are you corgetting the fact that Egypt also close the Straits of Tiran, which Israel had said beforehand would be a declaration of war?

Both sides were guilty of threatening war, but Israel had proved in 1956 its willingness to invade Arab territory. As far as the Straits of Tiran are concerned, there's a lot of controversy about the degree of existential threat that imposed on the Jewish state:

"The assertion that the announcement of Straits of Tiran Blockade paved the way for war is disputed by Major General Indar Jit Rikhye, military adviser to the United Nations Secretary General, who called the accusation of a blockade 'questionable,' pointing out that an Israeli-flagged ship had not passed through the straits in two years, and that 'The U.A.R. [Egyptian] navy had searched a couple of ships after the establishment of the blockade and thereafter relaxed its implementation.'"

Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hossfly]

Try honesty, Menachem

"Menachem Begin also stated that 'The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.'"

Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe the Arabs shouldn't have blocked the straight of Tiran, mobilized their armies at Israel's borders, and spewed rhetoric about pushing the Jews into the sea?

Those were all acts of war and direct threats to the survival of Israel. You don't have to fire first to start a war. Just as USSR brought its nuclear ICBM's into Cuba was an act of war and would have given the US the right to invade and / or attack had Russia not backed off.

Or did you think Israel was going to sit there and get sucker punched by the Arabs? Keep dreaming.

Sucker punched like the Arabs in '56?

"The Suez Crisis, also referred to as the Tripartite Aggression, Suez Canal Crisis, Suez War, or Second Arab-Israeli War[13][14] (Arabic: أزمة السويس /* العدوان الثلاثي* Azmat al-Suways / al-ʻUdwān al-Thulāthī , "Suez Crisis"/ 'the Tripartite Aggression'; French: Crise du canal de Suez; Hebrew: מבצע קדש* Mivtza' Kadesh 'Operation Kadesh,' or מלחמת סיני Milẖemet Sinai, 'Sinai War'), was a diplomatic and military confrontation in late 1956 between Egypt on one side, and Britain, France and Israel on the other, with the United States, the Soviet Union, and the United Nations playing major roles in forcing Britain, France and Israel to withdraw."

Tell us how many Israeli flagged ships went through the Straits of Tiran during the two years prior to the '67 closing.

None, George. They all flew Marshall Islands flags.

 

[georgephillip]

Maybe the Arabs shouldn't have blocked the straight of Tiran, mobilized their armies at Israel's borders, and spewed rhetoric about pushing the Jews into the sea?

Those were all acts of war and direct threats to the survival of Israel. You don't have to fire first to start a war. Just as USSR brought its nuclear ICBM's into Cuba was an act of war and would have given the US the right to invade and / or attack had Russia not backed off.

Or did you think Israel was going to sit there and get sucker punched by the Arabs? Keep dreaming.

Sucker punched like the Arabs in '56?

"The Suez Crisis, also referred to as the Tripartite Aggression, Suez Canal Crisis, Suez War, or Second Arab-Israeli War[13][14] (Arabic: أزمة السويس /* العدوان الثلاثي* Azmat al-Suways / al-ʻUdwān al-Thulāthī , "Suez Crisis"/ 'the Tripartite Aggression'; French: Crise du canal de Suez; Hebrew: מבצע קדש* Mivtza' Kadesh 'Operation Kadesh,' or מלחמת סיני Milẖemet Sinai, 'Sinai War'), was a diplomatic and military confrontation in late 1956 between Egypt on one side, and Britain, France and Israel on the other, with the United States, the Soviet Union, and the United Nations playing major roles in forcing Britain, France and Israel to withdraw."

Tell us how many Israeli flagged ships went through the Straits of Tiran during the two years prior to the '67 closing.

None, George. They all flew Marshall Islands flags.

Why did they do that, Hoss?