Zone1 Jews: Do you blame Jesus for all the persecution our people have suffered?

[irosie91]

When was Constantine born?

why do you ask?

 

[surada]

why do you ask?

I think Constantine was born in 272 AD.

 

[irosie91]

I think Constantine was born in 272 AD.

Council of nicea----325 AD ----birth of the FIRST REICH

 

[SweetSue92]

Please….I asked Jews for their opinion. (We already know people like you blame Jews.)

IMO that Bible verse, "His blood be on us and on our children" is a temporal reaction. It's not meant to be a generational curse. Also IMO, before a Christian blames Jews or anyone else for putting Jesus on the Cross they should look at themselves. I can't blame the Jews or the Romans for crucifying Jesus because I believe He had to die for MY sins. I can't get past myself. So I have no cause to blame others.

 

[irosie91]

Yes.

Although this can't be exactly true, but if it helps, one might think of the New Testament as being composed after the fact as an explanation for the collapse of Judaism. After the fact of the Great Revolt - the destruction of the temple, the decimation of the population, the loss of national identity.

And as they account in their history of God's appearances among them in the clouds to judge (either them or their enemies), they recount one last such appearance, God, in the end, being their Messiah.

No corporeal appearance. Ever. But according to the New Testament, Jesus indeed did come to judge.

What loss of national identity?

IMO that Bible verse, "His blood be on us and on our children" is a temporal reaction. It's not meant to be a generational curse. Also IMO, before a Christian blames Jews or anyone else for putting Jesus on the Cross they should look at themselves. I can't blame the Jews or the Romans for crucifying Jesus because I believe He had to die for MY sins. I can't get past myself. So I have no cause to blame others.

IMO-----"His blood be on us and our children" is a construct of the Council of Nicea. For
compelling circumstantial evidence, see JUSTINIAN LAW

 

[Meriweather]

why do you believe Jesus is not God?

God is not human. Jesus was human.

 

[TNHarley]

Yet Jesus outshines them all. I would say that about 99.999% of all threads relate to Christ here anyway.

Funny that.

As for the generation thingy

This quote of Jesus in regards to the end times is found in Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; and Luke 21:32. Jesus said, “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” The things that Jesus had been speaking of—the rise of the Antichrist, the desolation of the Holy Place, and the darkening of the sun—did not happen during the lifespan of people alive in Jesus’ day. Obviously, Jesus meant something different when He spoke of “this generation.”

The key to understanding what Jesus meant by “this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” is the context; that is, we must understand the verses that are surrounding Matthew 24:34, especially the verses prior to it. In Matthew 24:4–31, Jesus is clearly giving a prophecy; He is speaking of future events. Jesus had already told those living during His earthly ministry that the kingdom had been taken from them (Matthew 21:43). Therefore, it is imperative that Matthew 24–25 be seen as dealing with a future time. The generation that Jesus speaks of “not passing” until He returns is a future generation, namely, the people living when the predicted events occur. The word generation refers to the people alive in the future when the events of Matthew 24–25 take place.

Jesus’ point in His statement, “this generation will not pass away until all these things take place,” is that the events of the end times will happen quickly. Once the signs of the end begin to be observed, the end is well on the way—the second coming and the judgment will occur within that last generation. Jesus reinforced this meaning with a parable in Matthew 24:32–33: “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.” A sure sign of summer is the leafing of the fig tree; a sure sign of the end of the world is that “all these things” (of Matthew 24) are taking place. Those who are on the earth then will have only a short time left.

Another interpretation is that Jesus’ prophecy in Matthew 24 has a “double fulfillment.” In this view, “this generation” is the people Jesus was speaking to at that moment—some of what He predicted was going to occur during their lifetimes. So, when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in AD 70, Jesus’ prophecy was fulfilled in part; the fall of Jerusalem provided a foretaste of worse things to come. However, many aspects of Jesus’ prophecy did not occur in AD 70; for example, the celestial signs of Matthew 24:29–31. The main problem with the “dual-fulfillment” interpretation is that it does not harmonize with Jesus’ statement that “all” these things will take place in “this generation.” Therefore, it is better to understand “this generation” as referring to the generation alive when the end times events are actually occurring.

Essentially, Jesus is saying that, once the events of the end times begin, they will happen quickly. The age of grace has continued for a very long time. But when the time for judgment finally arrives, things will be wrapped up posthaste. This concept of God’s drawing things to a rapid close is echoed in many other passages of Scripture (Matthew 24:22; Mark 13:20; Revelation 3:11; 22:7, 12, 20).

So you have to spin what he actually said, to mean something he clearly didnt say, to keep the hope alive.

 

[surada]

So you have to spin what he actually said, to mean something he clearly didnt say, to keep the hope alive.

The abomination of desolation happened again when the Romans and soldiers from all over the Roman empire gathered at Megiddo to fight the Jewish civil war. They brought their standards and defiled the temple just as Antiochus IV Epiphanies had done.

A generation was 40 years in the Old Testament.

 

[ReinyDays]

So you’re racist in addition to being an antisemite?

Sexist ... I hate men ... and more generally all humans, with no specific race targeted ...

We're just a bunch of semi-evolved rodents with no other claim to evolutionary fame than a particularly bad tasting flesh ... we are hypocrites saying skunks stink ... you've not heard this from me before? ... humans are a disease, a fungus, something to be driven off and killed ...

So ... not a racist ...

 

[ReinyDays]

It doesn't matter IMO, since the Christianized (Rome-anized) version of the "original New Testimony" (Jewish) was written/fantasized in vast majority from 450 AD onward till around 1300AD. With the clear intention to create an artificial non-Jewish religion. - aka, Jesus was not a Jewish person (or messiah) who was in opposition to the then prevailing customs of the Hebrew religion and preached his opinions of true and pure Judaism - but he is God's son, born and created specifically to be a Christian - aka only Christians are God's true chosen people.

Thus the Roman Church counter-created their own version of the Hebrew Bible story book - which basically claims the same thing. Then added that Jesus was slain or victimized by Jews (true) - to make certain that no Christian would ever get the idea that Christianity is in fact a Hebrew thingy - and automatically view Hebrews to be the born enemies of Christianity.

I'm from the Waldensee tradition ... with a heavy heavy dose of Anabaptism ... Catholics, Calvinists, Lutherians and Angelicans all would put me and my kind to death ... it was just too muddy in North Holland/West Frisia to do so ... everybody hates pacifists, especially during the Wars of Religion ... alas, the Mennonites got rich here in America, come WWII we had reasons to fight: money ... what happens when you let hard working people own land in Kansas ...

Those who care, consider the Catholic Church as the Great Harlot Babylon ... and several hundred years before the Protestant movement ... I'm not so harsh, I ask what does sub-Roman Europe look like without the RCC? ... as pagans, aren't we just animals? ...

My claim is that the true and accurate Bible is written in our hearts ... meaning we know right from wrong instinctually ... God caused this to be written down because they are liars among us ... for the exact same reason we here in the USA are governed by written laws ... less arguments ... it's written "Thou shall not steal" ... both in the Bible and US criminal code ... and in our hearts, we know it's wrong to steal ...

 

[Votto]

So you have to spin what he actually said, to mean something he clearly didnt say, to keep the hope alive.

I've seen enough evidence to keep hope alive thanks. I also have his teachings which are spot on as the truth in them is self evident.

I've also seen people transformed after conversion, including myself, in addition to prophesies such as Daniel 9:24-27.

What is Daniel 9? It was a prophesy that was studied by ancient rabbis who concluded that it was a calendar for the coming Messiah that pointed right to the time Christ walked the earth, only, they rejected their Messiah and came up with a doctrine that Jesus was not really the Messiah. The concluded by saying that said the Messiah tarries due to the sinfulness of Israel. One such rabbi who did not buy the doctrine, Leopold Cohn, converted to Christianity because of the prophesy. He gave up his career and life for the truth, something that is truly remarkable. Again, he had no personal vested interest to do otherwise.

In the Talmud, they even suggest restricting the common man from making the calculation so that others will not be 'deceived". I can provide those passages as well if you like.

But the proof is in the pudding. Rabbis are the ones that should be able to calculate the Jewish calendar Daniel provides with no vested interest in it pointing to Christ in any way because they had a vested interest in doing otherwise since they rejected him.

Incidentally, Jesus predicted they would reject him.

If you are interested I can provide more detail, but if not, I will not waste my time further.

 

[BreezeWood]

God is not human. Jesus was human.

physiology is a metaphysical substance not native to planet earth and has a unique spiritual content that if removed from the physiology causes the substance to dissolve into the atmosphere -

there is no reason not to believe the heavens are the same spiritual content as found on earth and are the equivelent and the reasonable hope for a continued existance for those able to set free their spirit as prescribed by the heavens after their judgement for who accomplish the goal, admission to the everlasting.

 

[irosie91]

I've seen enough evidence to keep hope alive thanks. I also have his teachings which are spot on as the truth in them is self evident.

I've also seen people transformed after conversion, including myself, in addition to prophesies such as Daniel 9:24-27.

What is Daniel 9? It was a prophesy that was studied by ancient rabbis who concluded that it was a calendar for the coming Messiah that pointed right to the time Christ walked the earth, only, they rejected their Messiah and came up with a doctrine that Jesus was not really the Messiah. The concluded by saying that said the Messiah tarries due to the sinfulness of Israel. One such rabbi who did not buy the doctrine, Leopold Cohn, converted to Christianity because of the prophesy. He gave up his career and life for the truth, something that is truly remarkable. Again, he had no personal vested interest to do otherwise.

In the Talmud, they even suggest restricting the common man from making the calculation so that others will not be 'deceived". I can provide those passages as well if you like.

But the proof is in the pudding. Rabbis are the ones that should be able to calculate the Jewish calendar Daniel provides with no vested interest in it pointing to Christ in any way because they had a vested interest in doing otherwise since they rejected him.

Incidentally, Jesus predicted they would reject him.

If you are interested I can provide more detail, but if not, I will not waste my time further.

ANCIENT RABBIS???? the person you cite was born in the late 1800s AD. That
he was a "rabbi" is conjecture. Feel free to
cite the "rabbis" who credit Daniel with predicting a "messiah" that DA JOOOOS
would reject as recorded in the TALMUD------please provide the aramaic passages

 

[TNHarley]

they rejected their Messiah

Probably because he didnt complete the prophecies.

 

[Clyde 154]

After all, it does say in the Christian Bible that “his blood is on Jews and all their generations“ along with other anti-Jewish verses.

Me? I do not. I think Jesus was basically a good man, with good intentions, and taught traditional Jewish values. His “do unto others” teaching, for example, can straight from Hillel.

The problem really started decades later when the NT was written. The claims that Jesus said “nobody gets to the Father except through me” is either outright false (no Jew would elevate himself like that) or misconstrued when he meant one must follow his teachings to see Gd.

That interpretation led to the idea the Gd is angry at Jews, has cursed them, and some of the other nasty stuff I’ve read right here on this forum. And the more Jews stuck with their religion that clearly outlined who the Messiah would be - Jesus didn’t fit - the more angry the 1st c Christians got with them. By the time John was written, they were in all-out assault mode.

Jesus certainly never intended any of this.

What difference does it make....."What man thinks?" The fact is, as recorded by history actual......just as Jesus prophesied in Matthew 23, God would bring judgment upon the Jews for the crimes against God's prophets and wise men sent in previous generations and now were rejecting Jesus as being sent by God.

God would allow this judgment to pass upon Israel in that very generation of the 1st century. History validates the fact that the Jews of 1st century Israel were all removed from the land of promise in the latter part of the 1st century......beginning in A.D. 60s....with Jerusalem and the Temple being destroyed in A.D 70, just like Jesus prophesied.........the Jews from that time forward were scattered around the globe, without a homeland, without any Tribal ID, without a King appointed by God, without a royal priesthood (the Levites)........

One can't deny or hide from History Actual. Even today, those claiming to be Israel have no Tribal ID, No King, No Royal Priesthood, no Temple or no hopes of ever having a physical temple being rebuilt.

The record of Jesus Christ is quite clear in dealing with the hypocrisy of the Jews in the 1st century, "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes; and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them ye shall scourge in your synagogues; and persecute from city to city:

That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth; from the blood of righteous Able unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the alter.

Verily I say unto you, ALL THESE THINGS SHALL COME UPON THIS GENERATION." -- Matthew 23:33-36

What was the historical result of Jesus' prophecy? "Behold your house is left unto you desolate." -- Matthew 23:38

 

[irosie91]

The LEVITES is still here------by DNA EVIDENCE

 

[Lisa558]

What difference does it make....."What man thinks?" The fact is, as recorded by history actual......just as Jesus prophesied in Matthew 23, God would bring judgment upon the Jews for the crimes against God's prophets and wise men sent in previous generations and now were rejecting Jesus as being sent by God.

God would allow this judgment to pass upon Israel in that very generation of the 1st century. History validates the fact that the Jews of 1st century Israel were all removed from the land of promise in the latter part of the 1st century......beginning in A.D. 60s....with Jerusalem and the Temple being destroyed in A.D 70, just like Jesus prophesied.........the Jews from that time forward were scattered around the globe, without a homeland, without any Tribal ID, without a King appointed by God, without a royal priesthood (the Levites)........

One can't deny or hide from History Actual. Even today, those claiming to be Israel have no Tribal ID, No King, No Royal Priesthood, no Temple or no hopes of ever having a physical temple being rebuilt.

The record of Jesus Christ is quite clear in dealing with the hypocrisy of the Jews in the 1st century, "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes; and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them ye shall scourge in your synagogues; and persecute from city to city:

That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth; from the blood of righteous Able unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the alter.

Verily I say unto you, ALL THESE THINGS SHALL COME UPON THIS GENERATION." -- Matthew 23:33-36

What was the historical result of Jesus' prophecy? "Behold your house is left unto you desolate." -- Matthew 23:38

Yeah, yeah….whatever. No evidence Jesus ever said any of that.

And P.S. What is reported in the gospels isn‘t “actual history.”

 

[surada]

I'm from the Waldensee tradition ... with a heavy heavy dose of Anabaptism ... Catholics, Calvinists, Lutherians and Angelicans all would put me and my kind to death ... it was just too muddy in North Holland/West Frisia to do so ... everybody hates pacifists, especially during the Wars of Religion ... alas, the Mennonites got rich here in America, come WWII we had reasons to fight: money ... what happens when you let hard working people own land in Kansas ...

Those who care, consider the Catholic Church as the Great Harlot Babylon ... and several hundred years before the Protestant movement ... I'm not so harsh, I ask what does sub-Roman Europe look like without the RCC? ... as pagans, aren't we just animals? ...

My claim is that the true and accurate Bible is written in our hearts ... meaning we know right from wrong instinctually ... God caused this to be written down because they are liars among us ... for the exact same reason we here in the USA are governed by written laws ... less arguments ... it's written "Thou shall not steal" ... both in the Bible and US criminal code ... and in our hearts, we know it's wrong to steal ...

The Catholic Church isn't the Whore of Babylon. Martin Luther started that about 1500 AD after he fell out with Rome.

Rome never had anything to do with Babylon. The Whore of Babylon is Israel.

 

[irosie91]

Yeah, yeah….whatever. No evidence Jesus ever said any of that.

And P.S. What is reported in the gospels isn‘t “actual history.”

Mathew, the Roman shill, PREDICTED that the Romans would
destroy DA JOOOOS -----NASKHARAHALLAH predicts that the
SHITITES will destroy DA JOOOOS too

 

[irosie91]

The Catholic Church isn't the Whore of Babylon. Martin Luther started that about 1500 AD after he fell out with Rome.

Rome never had anything to do with Babylon. The Whore of Babylon is Israel.

The whore of Babylon is THE POPE-----a JW lady assured me