Justified?

[woodwork201]

So the gun laws in Chicago and nyc boston are just A figment of the imagination?

They definitely violate the 2nd Amendment.

 

[woodwork201]

Basically, you can't ban no-knock warrants entirely. What if the police are going to arrest an armed member of some violent gang? But the use of that should be restricted and regulated.

Bull crap. Get behind protection outside and use a bullhorn. Most no-knock warrants, though, are not arrest warrants, they're search warrants. The fear that someone will flush a bag of weed before the cops get inside leads to the deaths of innocent bystanders, wrong houses, and dead cops. There's no reason at all for a no-knock warrant - EVER.

 

[woodwork201]

I don't know that I'd support an outright ban on no-knock warrants. But they certainly need to be used with extreme caution, with the awareness that they create a very real risk that either a police officer or an innocent citizen, will wind up dead as a result of one being carried out. Before a no-knock warrant is issued, there needs to be a very high standard of determining that the risk posed by the subject of such a warrant is so great as to justify the risk to innocent life, and that there is no less risky alternative. And judges who are careless in issuing such warrants, and officers who are careless in carrying them out, need to be held criminally responsible when this carelessness results in innocent deaths.

Do you know of any police department or judge that wouldn't tell you today that they use extreme caution? And even if they tightened up for a while, they'll slip into the current ways because that's human nature.

If the police want to decide to take a risk for themselves, that's their prerogative but they can't make that choice for the 92 year old grandma when the police go into the wrong house and shoot her. She didn't get a voice in how much risk was acceptable, did she?

They are unreasonable and violate the 4th Amendment.

 

[Blues Man]

Yes, but this also has disadvantages. Passers by, a suspect not being confined by the walls etc.

In any case, you can't just outlaw no-knock warrants without some serious reform, because sometimes the police are going to arrest really bad guys and they should be able to protect their lives.

Serious reform is outlawing no knock warrants.

There is no need for them.

 

[Markle]

Bull crap. Get behind protection outside and use a bullhorn. Most no-knock warrants, though, are not arrest warrants, they're search warrants. The fear that someone will flush a bag of weed before the cops get inside leads to the deaths of innocent bystanders, wrong houses, and dead cops. There's no reason at all for a no-knock warrant - EVER.

Hopefully, you're being facetious and aren't that goofy.

I realize you're just trolling, looking for an argument but really, what good does it serve for you to intentionally look foolish?

 

[woodwork201]

Hopefully, you're being facetious and aren't that goofy.

I realize you're just trolling, looking for an argument but really, what good does it serve for you to intentionally look foolish?

I'm very serious. There is no need for Rambo-style policing, bursting in doors and guns-a-blazing. Just because it makes for good theater and TV does not mean it's appropriate in real life in a free country.

If you have the right to defend yourself in your home but the police can legally kill you for doing it then you have no right to defend yourself even from burglars because you have to wait to make sure they're not police before you defend yourself. By that time, they have the upper hand and are in control of the situation.

This is not supposed to be a police state but the war on drugs and the no-knock warrants that came from them have turned us into one. It needs to end.

 

[westwall]

Shoot first, ask questions later

That's your hero Byrds way.

DURRRR

 

[ESay]

Bull crap. Get behind protection outside and use a bullhorn. Most no-knock warrants, though, are not arrest warrants, they're search warrants. The fear that someone will flush a bag of weed before the cops get inside leads to the deaths of innocent bystanders, wrong houses, and dead cops. There's no reason at all for a no-knock warrant - EVER.

I already said in this thread that no-knock warrants came along with the war on drugs, or more correctly, were considered as a tool of it. Basically, you can't just get rid of these warrants without rethinking the war on drugs policy.

 

[Markle]

I'm very serious. There is no need for Rambo-style policing, bursting in doors and guns-a-blazing. Just because it makes for good theater and TV does not mean it's appropriate in real life in a free country.

If you have the right to defend yourself in your home but the police can legally kill you for doing it then you have no right to defend yourself even from burglars because you have to wait to make sure they're not police before you defend yourself. By that time, they have the upper hand and are in control of the situation.

This is not supposed to be a police state but the war on drugs and the no-knock warrants that came from them have turned us into one. It needs to end.

No, you're not serious, you're just trolling.

You're advocating that police notify a wanted felon, in this case, someone wanted for murder. The police should go door to door and evacuate dozens of neighbors putting the wanted person on alert. So now you have alerted someone capable of murder, in a residence, with unknown weapons and unknown hostages.

Yeah, what a plan!

As opposed to surprising the criminal with a massive force and takedown before the person has a chance to react.

You're got a few drug busts on your record, don't you? Otherwise, why in the heck would you demand police and private citizens be put at great risk of injury or death?

We are blessed that you are not in any position of authority.

 

[woodwork201]

I already said in this thread that no-knock warrants came along with the war on drugs, or more correctly, were considered as a tool of it. Basically, you can't just get rid of these warrants without rethinking the war on drugs policy.

No problem there; get the government out of the drug war and let survival of the fittest handle the whole thing.

 

[woodwork201]

No, you're not serious, you're just trolling.

You're advocating that police notify a wanted felon, in this case, someone wanted for murder. The police should go door to door and evacuate dozens of neighbors putting the wanted person on alert. So now you have alerted someone capable of murder, in a residence, with unknown weapons and unknown hostages.

Yeah, what a plan!

As opposed to surprising the criminal with a massive force and takedown before the person has a chance to react.

You're got a few drug busts on your record, don't you? Otherwise, why in the heck would you demand police and private citizens be put at great risk of injury or death?

We are blessed that you are not in any position of authority.

I've never been arrested for anything, including drugs.

These deaths in no-knock warrant services are the danger for the citizens and for the cops. 90% of no-knock warrants are not arrest warrants and certainly not arrest warrants of dangerous criminals. They are executed so some petty drug possessor cannot flush a bag of weed before the cops get in. People die to protect the war on drugs.

You're an idiot if you think no-knock warrants are about police safety. Any time the police bust into a room without knowing what's on the other side, they're in extreme risk. That's why they shoot first and ask questions later. A person simply grabs their gun as the door is kicked in gets shot because the police see a gun.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

No it’s not. If the police have a need to interact with you in this way, you’re already sub-human scum. If you fail to follow their commands, even more so. He deserved what he got.

Riiiiight......because corrupt cops do not exist......
And the politicians controlling them are always great, honest and wonderful people!
Got it!!

What a statist bitch you must be.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

No, you're not serious, you're just trolling.

You're advocating that police notify a wanted felon, in this case, someone wanted for murder. The police should go door to door and evacuate dozens of neighbors putting the wanted person on alert. So now you have alerted someone capable of murder, in a residence, with unknown weapons and unknown hostages.

Yeah, what a plan!

As opposed to surprising the criminal with a massive force and takedown before the person has a chance to react.

You're got a few drug busts on your record, don't you? Otherwise, why in the heck would you demand police and private citizens be put at great risk of injury or death?

We are blessed that you are not in any position of authority.

And if they made a mistake ??
Oh right...Humans, especially Police...can never make mistakes. My bad.

If you get "SWATted" it might teach you a valuable lesson.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Bull crap. Get behind protection outside and use a bullhorn. Most no-knock warrants, though, are not arrest warrants, they're search warrants. The fear that someone will flush a bag of weed before the cops get inside leads to the deaths of innocent bystanders, wrong houses, and dead cops. There's no reason at all for a no-knock warrant - EVER.

I can think of one.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No it’s not. If the police have a need to interact with you in this way, you’re already sub-human scum. If you fail to follow their commands, even more so. He deserved what he got.

So you should always do as the police say?

Sounds a little fascist... oh wait, it's you.... no surprises there then.

 

[Batcat]

No it’s not. If the police have a need to interact with you in this way, you’re already sub-human scum. If you fail to follow their commands, even more so. He deserved what he got.

That attitude shows me why Black Lives Matter had so much support.

 

[pknopp]

So you should always do as the police say?

Sounds a little fascist... oh wait, it's you.... no surprises there then.

Many here have argued many times that you should do whatever the police tell you even if it is a violation of your rights.

I say the police need better trained on our rights and then personally held responsible if they violate them.

 

[Anathema]

Riiiiight......because corrupt cops do not exist......
And the politicians controlling them are always great, honest and wonderful people!
Got it!!

What a statist bitch you must be.

There will always be bad people in every profession. It’s better to stay alive, and fight the issue out in court afterwards than have “He was Right” engraved on your tombstone.

I’m an Authoritarian. I’ve made no attempt to hide that. I’ve been brutally honest about it.

 

[Anathema]

So you should always do as the police say?

YES. If I have an issue with it I take it up with the proper people after the fact.

Sounds a little fascist... oh wait, it's you.... no surprises there then.

Authoritarian; and proud of it.

 

[Anathema]

That attitude shows me why Black Lives Matter had so much support

Oh? Care to share your revelation with the rest of the class.