Let's celebrate the Right to Keep and Bear arms...something the rest of the world has surrendered....

[2aguy]

Meanwhile back in reality....

other nations don't have dozens and dozens of school massacres.

You are an idiot....from Mother Jones, mass public shooting tracker data base....so far...

School shootings...

2021....1
2020....0
2019....0
2018.....2
2017....0
2016...0
2015....1 (community college)
2014...1
2013.....0
2012....2
2011....0
2010...0

US mass shootings, 1982–2024: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

The full data set from our in-depth investigation into mass shootings.

www.motherjones.com

 

[candycorn]

You are an idiot....from Mother Jones, mass public shooting tracker data base....so far...

School shootings...

2021....1
2020....0
2019....0
2018.....2
2017....0
2016...0
2015....1 (community college)
2014...1
2013.....0
2012....2
2011....0
2010...0

US mass shootings, 1982–2024: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

The full data set from our in-depth investigation into mass shootings.

www.motherjones.com

Nope...

School shootings are becoming more frequent, after a lull during the pandemic. (Published 2021)

The deadly gunfire in Oxford, Mich., added one more episode to a growing list of fatal shootings on school property in the United States this year.

www.nytimes.com

 

[candycorn]

one every couple of years isn't the problem

Unless you're the parent of one of the victims of the 2nd Amendment...then it becomes a problem.

Or do you think all of these parents are Crisis Actors too?

 

[Man of Ethics]

One picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[2aguy]

Nope...

View attachment 583341

School shootings are becoming more frequent, after a lull during the pandemic. (Published 2021)

The deadly gunfire in Oxford, Mich., added one more episode to a growing list of fatal shootings on school property in the United States this year.

www.nytimes.com

Wrong. The sources you use include gang shootings when the school is closed and guys who shoot themselves in the parking lot on the weekend.

Actual school shootings where an individual targets the school are documented at Mother Jones.

And there were maybe 5 in 5 years or more

 

[2aguy]

Nope...

View attachment 583341

School shootings are becoming more frequent, after a lull during the pandemic. (Published 2021)

The deadly gunfire in Oxford, Mich., added one more episode to a growing list of fatal shootings on school property in the United States this year.

www.nytimes.com

The clue that your source is stupid? It says fatal shootings on school property, not attacks on school property……..and since your link is behind a paywall you can’t show us what they mean.

The gun violence archive lies like you do…..including shootings that happen across the street from schools and when the school is actually closed

 

[candycorn]

Weong. The sources you use include gang shootings when the school is closed and guys who shoot themselves in the parking lot on the weekend.

Actual school shootings where an individual targets the school are documented at Mother Jones.

And there were maybe 5 in 5 years or more

More Nonsense....

 

[candycorn]

You are an idiot....from Mother Jones, mass public shooting tracker data base....so far...

School shootings...

2021....1
2020....0
2019....0
2018.....2
2017....0
2016...0
2015....1 (community college)
2014...1
2013.....0
2012....2
2011....0
2010...0

US mass shootings, 1982–2024: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

The full data set from our in-depth investigation into mass shootings.

www.motherjones.com

You said there were no school shootings in 2017.

Please explain why you ignore these shootings.

2017 Aztec High School shooting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rancho Tehama shootings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Freeman High School (Washington) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Suicides don't count, dipshit........

They aren't, numbnuts.
Another Trumptard who can't read.

'In the United States, more than seven people per hour die a violent death. In 2019, more than 19,100 people were victims of homicide and over 47,500 people died by suicide'.

Ignoring the and part?

10,258 were killed with guns in 2019, 23,941 committed suicide with guns...but again, the suicides don't count.

The CDC hid their gun self defense research since it was getting too close to Kleck's numbers.....the Department of Justice found 1.5 million .....and here are the rest of the studies...

So, that's where you're getting your BS from?

Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist, also ignores the fact that his results repeatedly fail tests of external validity. In our original article, we mention that Kleck’s data would require, impossibly, that gun owners use their gun in self-defense in more than 100 percent of burglaries.
Kleck’s data also suggests that every year hundreds of thousands of criminals are shot by law-abiding citizens. But where are the hospital records to validate this claim?
Kleck insists, with no medical knowledge and without citing a single study, that the vast majority of these criminals never seek hospital treatment, a claim scoffed at by medical professionals.

Kleck concludes his article by saying we “have not offered any new criticisms” and, like Dr. Hemenway before us, do “not once cite the one thing that could legitimately cast doubt on our estimates—better empirical evidence.” However, had he read the second page of our column, he would have seen that the entire point of our article was to highlight new empirical evidence debunking Kleck’s claims.

Here are the facts Kleck missed: According to his own survey more than 50 percent of respondents claim to have reported their defensive gun use to the police.
This means we should find at least half of his 2.5 million annual Defensive Gun Uses (DGUs) in police reports alone. Instead, the most comprehensive nonpartisan effort to catalog police and media reports on DGUs by The Gun Violence Archive was barely able to find 1,600 in 2014.
Where are the remaining 99.94 percent of Kleck’s supposed DGUs hiding?

Like I stated..................a survey.

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

Sure................ANOTHER survey.

In May 1994 by ABC News and the Washington Post. One question asked: "Have you yourself ever seen anything that you believe was a spacecraft from another planet?" 10% of respondents answered in the affirmative. These 150 individuals were then asked, "Have you personally ever been in contact with aliens from another planet or not?" and 6% answered "Yes."

By extrapolating to the national population, we might conclude that almost 20 million Americans have seen spacecraft from another planet, and over a million have been in personal contact with aliens from other planets.

 

[Vagabond63]

So then I should just treat you like a murdering piece of shit right?

Maybe we should just revoke your driver's license now because it's only a matter of time before you get shitfaced and kill someone right?

And comparing Jaywalking to murder is beyond stupid.

Not at all, but you should take reasonable precautions in case I might one day turn murderous or get drunk and drive. Requiring training and background testing is, in my view, the bare minimum requirements before allowing anyone to get a firearm. In the UK you had to be a member of a gun club or similar for a time before you could apply for a firearms certificate. This requirement gave the club time to train you in safe practices and to evaluate your state of mind (UK clubs were interviewed by police when you applied). That plus your medical records proved you were safe enough to own a gun. Yes the system wasn't perfect and a few nutcases fell through, but nevertheless our system produced about 1 mass shooting every decade, The USA seems to have one every week, somewhere.
Oh, I wasn't comparing Jaywalking to murder, you did.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Anyone who supports gun control supports banning guns. Either intentionally, or out of stupidity.

So, we should allow people to have Tommy Guns, RPG's, shotguns with 5-inch barrels and silencers?

 

[Vagabond63]

/-----/ Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) shows that more people were murdered with knives (1,515) and “blunt objects” such as hammers (443) than with rifles (297). The numbers also show that fewer people were killed with shotguns (235) than with knives or blunt objects.

So rifles and shotguns, but I see you omitted handguns from your statistics, cherrypicking?

 

[Vagabond63]

guns protect people, most of the time without firing a shot, they feed people, they entertain people.......the rapes, robberies, murders, stabbings and beatings they stop are lives saved from death, and also from life shattering trauma.....

Oh good grief, I could equally state that guns protect and feed deranged psychopaths and sociopaths, rapists, robbers. The lives taken by guns cause life shattering trauma.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

The FBI agrees with him. How is he wrong?

View attachment 583179


The FBI disagrees with you. (see above). How are you right?

No, they don't.

In America, an estimated 16,425 people were murdered in 2019. This was a 0.3% increase from the 2018 estimate.

Here are murder rates in 65 major U.S. cities (cities with greater than 100,000 residents) for 2019. These rates are calculated using the latest statistics available — the FBI's 2019 Crime in the United States data, as well as data culled directly from city police officials and the U.S. Census Bureau.

While the initial release of the NCHS preliminary data did not provide a total number of homicides from 2020, the FBI's Uniform Crime Report recorded about 21,570 murders total last year -- compared with an estimated 16,425 murders in 2019.
The NCHS researchers plan to conduct follow-up analyses on the new homicide data for more insight into state-level data and how the homicides occurred. For instance, the provisional data do not document the various mechanisms of homicide, but the researchers noted that provisional data on gun-related deaths also increased last year, climbing from a rate of 11.9 firearm deaths per 100,000 in 2019 to 13.6 per 100,000 in 2020 -- a 14% increase.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

You said there were no school shootings in 2017.

Please explain why you ignore these shootings.

2017 Aztec High School shooting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rancho Tehama shootings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Freeman High School (Washington) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Good, I'll pass the mantle on to you.

I've had enough of these two idiots.

Good luck.

 

[candycorn]

Good, I'll pass the mantle on to you.

I've had enough of these two idiots.

Good luck.

I've been debating these guys for years. They offer nothing except the failed boilerplate "logic" that delivered us to this shameful place in our history where massacres via firearms are acceptable. Here is what I want to know....since 1776 or 1781--whichever date you want to use, how many nations have had revolutions? Probably dozens and dozens if not hundreds. You know how many looked at our 2nd Amendment and said, "yeah we need one of those"? None. And they seem to be getting along just fine in most of these nations with zero fear of their governments rounding up people for shits and giggles--the "fear" that they have here that as soon as they give up their bazooka...Uncle Sam is going to encroach on their rights. Fear is all they have to offer which is really the one thing they swear they are not--scared little boys who think their guns will ensure their safety when statistics show that the inverse is true more often than not.

 

[Vagabond63]

Good, I'll pass the mantle on to you.

I've had enough of these two idiots.

Good luck.

That's what they rely on, fatigue. They just carry on copy pasting their BS or generally spouting drivel hoping their "opponents" (as they see them) give up in disgust and walk away. Anyway, thanks for your input.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

I've been debating these guys for years. They offer nothing except the failed boilerplate "logic" that delivered us to this shameful place in our history where massacres via firearms are acceptable. Here is what I want to know....since 1776 or 1781--whichever date you want to use, how many nations have had revolutions? Probably dozens and dozens if not hundreds. You know how many looked at our 2nd Amendment and said, "yeah we need one of those"? None.

Just like communist healthcare.
If our current system is as great as the authoritarian party claims it is, why aren't dozens of countries waiting in line to adopt the US healthcare system?

The authoritarian party did try to get Russians to join a gun rights club, all they did was invite a Russian spy, to join their group.

And they seem to be getting along just fine in most of these nations with zero fear of their governments rounding up people for shits and giggles--the "fear" that they have here that as soon as they give up their bazooka...Uncle Sam is going to encroach on their rights. Fear is all they have to offer which is really the one thing they swear they are not--scared little boys who think their guns will ensure their safety when statistics show that the inverse is true more often than not.

Correct.
IDK, what they're thinking.

Good luck with the morons.

 

[Blues Man]

Not at all, but you should take reasonable precautions in case I might one day turn murderous or get drunk and drive. Requiring training and background testing is, in my view, the bare minimum requirements before allowing anyone to get a firearm. In the UK you had to be a member of a gun club or similar for a time before you could apply for a firearms certificate. This requirement gave the club time to train you in safe practices and to evaluate your state of mind (UK clubs were interviewed by police when you applied). That plus your medical records proved you were safe enough to own a gun. Yes the system wasn't perfect and a few nutcases fell through, but nevertheless our system produced about 1 mass shooting every decade, The USA seems to have one every week, somewhere.
Oh, I wasn't comparing Jaywalking to murder, you did.

Right so you should not be allowed to drive because who knows when you'll get behind the wheel drunk. You could drink at home where no one is able to evaluate your ability to drive. Maybe you should have to call a cop every time you want to drive so he can give you a sobriety test.

You should not be around kids unless supervised because who knows when you'll decide to bugger one of them

And the US is not the UK and it will never be the UK so what you want Americans to do is irrelevant and the fact is that only an extremely small number of people who legally own guns commit murder.

I know it must be strange to you that we don't blame everyone for the crimes of a few people.

 

[Vagabond63]

I know it must be strange to you that we don't blame everyone for the crimes of a few people.

Don't you? Many posters on this site appear to blame all Muslims for 9/11, forgetting or ignoring the fact that that atrocity was carried out by Saudis.