Maybe I'm beginning to understand this Trump thing

[gipper]

Which is better?

A government uncontrolled by any law, or to burn it down?

Look, asshole, that is what you are getting with the fat senile old orange clown. Both wishes. What foolish little fucked up cocksucks you people are.

Seek mental help.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Truth is that Trump is self destructive, but in the outside world where money rules everything he could get away with it, but that doesn't work in government.

The problem is that Trump is facing off against a very corrupt and deeply entrenched oligarchy.

 

[Mac1958]

Mac1958I've always taken you for a serious albeit flawed poster. And frankly, compared to most liberal posters on here, that's been mildly refreshing I guess. But honestly, you're letting emotions just take away all objectivity. This thread seems to be more that you wanted to throw yourself a pity party than anything. It falls well below the standard you've set for yourself.

Again, there have been Trump supporters on this thread who have agreed with me. There are also Trump supporters who admit that the guy is often embarrassing. This thread is not a stretch.
.

When I've tried to explore the issue at hand, you've been passive aggressive and/or derisive towards me for giving analysis. Making unfounded accusations and then doubling down on them is contemptible. It's somewhat ironic given the nature of your thread. Any time I've stated what I think is in play for Trump's behavior, you've said that's not the point of the thread. I don't know what the point is if we're not allowed to delve into the forces at play. Apparently, if we bash Trump enough that would be well to the point you'd like. That would be fair to your mind. Defense is not an option. You're basically being a fascist bitch.

I'm a fascist now. Okay, we can run with that. I do like the "bitch" part, it's been a while since I was called that.

My point has been made and confirmed. Trump supporters, as many have specifically said, don't care about his behaviors. And Trump supporters, as many have specifically said, love the fact that his behaviors anger liberals. And there are multiple examples on this thread of Trump supporters being fine with "blowing shit up", metaphorically speaking.

Yet you're mad at me for putting all of that into one thread, and you're acting like I'm coming completely out of left field.

Just as I do with the Regressive Left, I'm using a group's own words. Some folks just don't like that mirror, I get that, but it's not my problem.
.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Moderates are necessary for political process. Otherwise, all you have are two extremes fighting for absolute victory. Governance by whiplash as we swing back from one extreme to another.

Moderates decide every presidential election, or, to be precise, moderates decide who wins the popular vote.

Where the moderates vote directly correlates to how the candidates finish.

So if both parties have gone more extreme.....?

A plurality of American voters identify themselves as Moderates. In reality Moderates as a whole are left of center, but they are the swing vote. A Democrat has to win the Moderates by at least 10 points to win the popular vote.

That formula shows up in every election we have exit polls of.

Here are the numbers - off the top of my head - showing the correlation:

2004 - Kerry wins Moderate vote by 9 points - narrowly loses the election
2008 - Obama wins Moderate vote by 20 points - beats McCain by 7 points
2012 - Obama wins Moderate vote by about 15 points - beats Romney, but by narrower margin
2016 - Clinton wins Moderate vote by 11 points - just beats Trump in the popular vote.

Remarkable correlation.

You really believe those NUMBERS are off the top of your head you are crazy?
Why do you need to lie about something like that? Makes you feel better? Off the top of your head my ass!
Now using the below sources which legitimate scholarly people attribute not dumb liars like you!

How Groups Voted in 2004 - Roper Center
How Groups Voted in 2008 - Roper Center
How Groups Voted in 2012 - Roper Center
How Groups Voted 2016 - Roper Center

I think you are really despicable trying to impress people with "off the top of your head"! But that's what pompous arrogant butts do!
Disgusting!

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I clicked on the first one. 2004. Your link says that Kerry won the Moderate vote by 9 points.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID, FUCKTARD.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Truth is that Trump is self destructive, but in the outside world where money rules everything he could get away with it, but that doesn't work in government.

The problem is that Trump is facing off against a very corrupt and deeply entrenched oligarchy.

Trump is the perfect example of oligarchy.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Mac1958I've always taken you for a serious albeit flawed poster. And frankly, compared to most liberal posters on here, that's been mildly refreshing I guess. But honestly, you're letting emotions just take away all objectivity. This thread seems to be more that you wanted to throw yourself a pity party than anything. It falls well below the standard you've set for yourself.

Again, there have been Trump supporters on this thread who have agreed with me. There are also Trump supporters who admit that the guy is often embarrassing. This thread is not a stretch.
.

When I've tried to explore the issue at hand, you've been passive aggressive and/or derisive towards me for giving analysis. Making unfounded accusations and then doubling down on them is contemptible. It's somewhat ironic given the nature of your thread. Any time I've stated what I think is in play for Trump's behavior, you've said that's not the point of the thread. I don't know what the point is if we're not allowed to delve into the forces at play. Apparently, if we bash Trump enough that would be well to the point you'd like. That would be fair to your mind. Defense is not an option. You're basically being a fascist bitch.

I'm a fascist now. Okay, we can run with that. I do like the "bitch" part, it's been a while since I was called that.

My point has been made and confirmed. Trump supporters, as many have specifically said, don't care about his behaviors. And Trump supporters, as many have specifically said, love the fact that his behaviors anger liberals. And there are multiple examples on this thread of Trump supporters being fine with "blowing shit up", metaphorically speaking.

Yet you're mad at me for putting all of that into one thread, and you're acting like I'm coming completely out of left field.

Just as I do with the Regressive Left, I'm using a group's own words. Some folks just don't like that mirror, I get that, but it's not my problem.
.

Maybe, you're in such a tizzy that you don't see it. The 'Trump supporters' saying they don't care have at least to some significant extent said it tongue n' cheek. I've tried to make a more definitive response, noting how it's just simply low priority. But these are the type of things you ignore. Instead, you seem to be fishing for emotional ammo. That's why I say that this pity party thread is below your normal standard. But who knows, maybe this is some sort of therapy you need. That's not to say you're not making an utter ass out of yourself in interim.

 

[iceberg]

Okay. Here is my original response:

In essence, I stated that we live in a plutocracy (to say nothing of the fascist overtones). Your response through and through was only to focus on the semantics before saying I was derailing the thread. But it doesn't erase that is the essence of Trump supporters, imo. Some will argue this and that about Trump, but that is at least the driving force, honestly.

Yes, I saw that post. You were deflecting away from Trump's behaviors and how his followers tolerate them and changing the subject to something else.

Deflecting from a thread doesn't address the thread.
.

So, to your mind, regarding the root of the problem(s) allegedly dictating "behaviors" is deflecting. Whatever, dude. I can't even wrap my head around that.

I guess I took it as hyperbole when you painted all Trump supporters with a broad brush of not caring and wanting to blow it all up. But you apparently think that it is some sort of absolute fact that I have to defend or otherwise explain and that if I don't adhere to your irrational value judgment, then I'm somehow derailing your thread.

The root of WHAT problem? Trump acting like a spoiled 12 year old who is starved for attention, and his supporters pretending not to see it?

Is Trump responsible for his words, or is he not?
.

not that we don't see it, we don't care.

it's still not hillary and still not illegal. just immature.

Well, that goes back to my OP.
.

except you now make the assumption that i *want* him to piss off the other side.

no, i'd rather they work together but the progressives went all WAH and refuse to even try. and before you do the "well look what they did to obama" remember you're the one asking others to stop deflecting.

 

[bripat9643]

Truth is that Trump is self destructive, but in the outside world where money rules everything he could get away with it, but that doesn't work in government.

The problem is that Trump is facing off against a very corrupt and deeply entrenched oligarchy.

Trump is the perfect example of oligarchy.

How so? He's one man.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

So Trump supporters cheer the idea that Trump's biggest accomplishment has been to piss off Democrats.

Are these the same people who believed that Obama was despicable for being what they thought was a 'divider'?

Everyone know that Repubs hated Obama because he was a "Darkie."

Make America Great Again actually means, Make America White Again.

By "everyone", does that mean your pockets a filled with turds?

You're so full of horseshit that I have to hold my nose to read your comments.

Your totally bat shit crazy and a rabid racist.

it's so cute when racists call normal people "racist".

nutter butter.

You, the pretend lawyer & legit partisan hack, are pretending to know what "normal" people are and what they think.

Hysterical

 

[PredFan]

Now, what are we waiting for? Drain the swamp!

Thanks for that video, I watched it, probably one of the most articulate pro-Trump arguments I've seen, when that annoying interviewer would just shut the fuck up and let him talk.

The one problem with your conclusion is that you assume Trump is doing damage. He's really not.

I get that, I think. But here's the problem, guys - You're separating the behaviors from the issues. That's difficult enough to do with, say, the CEO of a corporation. When one of them acts crazy, it damages the company and its stock price regardless of any success. But we're talking about an entirely different world here. When it comes to the Presidency of the US, trying to separate the two is essentially impossible, there is simply too much at stake on not just a national, but global basis. This stuff is not happening in a vacuum.

To put it another way, he won't be able to get anything done if he makes himself so toxic that even his own people won't go near him. He doesn't have to do this. He can just NOT DO IT. He's hurting himself and his/your goals. But he still gets cheered on, on that's why I came this conclusion.
.

But he isn't making himself toxic. You yourself are "beginning to understand" why his supporters are so loyal. His tweets are nothing but entertainment to us. We are separating his behavior from the issues because while he's bitch-slapping the left, he's still doing good things. Some of us, myself included, don't want Obamacare replaced, only repealed but everything else he's done has been good stuff. How is that not being able to separate his actions from the issues?

The difference between the US and a corporation, as it relates to your point, is that the rest of the world needs us. They can huff and puff all they want to, it doesn't change anything.

The left and the Trump haters WANT us to believe that he's doing damage, but like everything else they have said, it isn't true.

 

[PredFan]

After a LOT of observation and asking a LOT of questions, I've settled on one specific theory as to why Trump's fans have watched and cheered as he has done what he has done to the office of President of the United States: This is one, final, loud, angry primal scream, an historic vent, based on years of pent-up and growing frustration, a guy screaming FUCK YOU to his enemies as he blows up a building with he and his enemies in it.

They've said it themselves: They really DO NOT CARE what he does while in office, because a higher priority for them is pissing off their enemies. How many times have you seen that said on this forum? They've said it over and over. They're gonna hurt their enemies, even if it means real destruction to everything else. Kind of an over-the-top, hopeless, radical chemotherapy treatment for a terminal cancer patient.

Trump's is the first "Fuck it, blow it up, I don't give a shit" presidency. They've been made angrier and angrier by people who have a vested professional interest in fanning the flames, and I also think they realize they let it all get away from them, and now it's just too late. So, fuck it. Blow it up. Then let it burn.

So Trump is their last, loud gasp, their final FUCK YOU, and they're gonna cheer as the building goes up in flames.
.

The one problem with your conclusion is that you assume Trump is doing damage. He's really not. How valuable is the image of the president really? How valuable or productive is a stuffed shirt in the WH? It's not really valuable or important. I do like that he pisses off his enemies, they are my enemies too, but more important is what he is doing, not what he is saying.

I love most of what he has done so far.

He's actually fairly moderate compared to his sworn enemies re politics. I just ignore the 'brash New Yorker' bombast, a common personality trait among older New York City natives that many haven't been exposed to and are terrified of for some reason, probably because of their Snowflake indoctrination.

Don't know many who voted for him who claim he's was going to be some kind of Savior; that sort of stupid phoniness is what the Obamas and Hillarys want everybody to think they are, despite the fact they have less than zero credibility nor any kind of real record they can point to. Remember it was Obama who ran around schooling us on how we should be fine with the AIG criminals getting their huge bonuses after the $150 billion bailout of their swindling and frauds while out of the other side of his mouth he was informing all the 'deplorables' how they needed to 'tighten their belts n stuff'; his telling GM workers they needed to work for far less, after carrying water for corrupt CEOs and lying salesmen peddling worthless paper to pension funds and savers, was particularly hilarious.

In any case, we know Democrats are not 'progressives', and they aren't 'liberals', they're just corrupt vermin who will say anything to get votes, endorse the assassination of police officers, conduct pogroms against little people for the crime of self-defense, loot taxpayers to feed racist neo-fascists, promote wide open borders, ally with terrorist vermin against our foreign allies, promote racist hate crimes against people because of their color, attempt to shut down free speech, conduct a war on Xians while endorsing a violent political ideology that has murdered millions upon millions and stones women to death for getting raped and other wonderful pastimes, all the good stuff that progressives and other sexual deviants and sociopaths love and hold dear to their lil black hearts.

The GOP establishment merely wants to steal your money and go play golf. It was certainly an easy choice for me to make, especially given how blatantly and shamelessly the MSM lied and shilled for Hillary.

Well said.

 

[PredFan]

The one problem with your conclusion is that you assume Trump is doing damage. He's really not. How valuable is the image of the president really? How valuable or productive is a stuffed shirt in the WH? It's not really valuable or important. I do like that he pisses off his enemies, they are my enemies too, but more important is what he is doing, not what he is saying.

I love most of what he has done so far.

Of course you do. Most sensible people look at his Foxes in charge of the henhouse policies, where banks and insurance companies can roam free to screw over consumers, and are kind of horrified.

When your insurance company can declare your cancer a pre-existing condition, tell me about your "Freedom", bud.

You are talking your usual nonsense.

 

[healthmyths]

Moderates decide every presidential election, or, to be precise, moderates decide who wins the popular vote.

Where the moderates vote directly correlates to how the candidates finish.

So if both parties have gone more extreme.....?

A plurality of American voters identify themselves as Moderates. In reality Moderates as a whole are left of center, but they are the swing vote. A Democrat has to win the Moderates by at least 10 points to win the popular vote.

That formula shows up in every election we have exit polls of.

Here are the numbers - off the top of my head - showing the correlation:

2004 - Kerry wins Moderate vote by 9 points - narrowly loses the election
2008 - Obama wins Moderate vote by 20 points - beats McCain by 7 points
2012 - Obama wins Moderate vote by about 15 points - beats Romney, but by narrower margin
2016 - Clinton wins Moderate vote by 11 points - just beats Trump in the popular vote.

Remarkable correlation.

You really believe those NUMBERS are off the top of your head you are crazy?
Why do you need to lie about something like that? Makes you feel better? Off the top of your head my ass!
Now using the below sources which legitimate scholarly people attribute not dumb liars like you!

How Groups Voted in 2004 - Roper Center
How Groups Voted in 2008 - Roper Center
How Groups Voted in 2012 - Roper Center
How Groups Voted 2016 - Roper Center

I think you are really despicable trying to impress people with "off the top of your head"! But that's what pompous arrogant butts do!
Disgusting!

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I clicked on the first one. 2004. Your link says that Kerry won the Moderate vote by 9 points.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID, FUCKTARD.

Pompous butt! You don't even have the memory of remembering what you wrote! See this is why people don't believe people like you!
You expect me to believe that all 4 elections were off the top of your head?
This is why people can't believe people like you as YOU are lying about it coming off the top of your head.

 

[jc456]

After a LOT of observation and asking a LOT of questions, I've settled on one specific theory as to why Trump's fans have watched and cheered as he has done what he has done to the office of President of the United States: This is one, final, loud, angry primal scream, an historic vent, based on years of pent-up and growing frustration, a guy screaming FUCK YOU to his enemies as he blows up a building with he and his enemies in it.

They've said it themselves: They really DO NOT CARE what he does while in office, because a higher priority for them is pissing off their enemies. How many times have you seen that said on this forum? They've said it over and over. They're gonna hurt their enemies, even if it means real destruction to everything else. Kind of an over-the-top, hopeless, radical chemotherapy treatment for a terminal cancer patient.

Trump's is the first "Fuck it, blow it up, I don't give a shit" presidency. They've been made angrier and angrier by people who have a vested professional interest in fanning the flames, and I also think they realize they let it all get away from them, and now it's just too late. So, fuck it. Blow it up. Then let it burn.

So Trump is their last, loud gasp, their final FUCK YOU, and they're gonna cheer as the building goes up in flames.
.

Huh? Temper tantrum much!

Does that mean you agree or disagree?

If you disagree, why, precisely? I've had a few Trump supporters agree.
.

I have no fking idea what your tantrum meant

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

After a LOT of observation and asking a LOT of questions, I've settled on one specific theory as to why Trump's fans have watched and cheered as he has done what he has done to the office of President of the United States: This is one, final, loud, angry primal scream, an historic vent, based on years of pent-up and growing frustration, a guy screaming FUCK YOU to his enemies as he blows up a building with he and his enemies in it.

They've said it themselves: They really DO NOT CARE what he does while in office, because a higher priority for them is pissing off their enemies. How many times have you seen that said on this forum? They've said it over and over. They're gonna hurt their enemies, even if it means real destruction to everything else. Kind of an over-the-top, hopeless, radical chemotherapy treatment for a terminal cancer patient.

Trump's is the first "Fuck it, blow it up, I don't give a shit" presidency. They've been made angrier and angrier by people who have a vested professional interest in fanning the flames, and I also think they realize they let it all get away from them, and now it's just too late. So, fuck it. Blow it up. Then let it burn.

So Trump is their last, loud gasp, their final FUCK YOU, and they're gonna cheer as the building goes up in flames.
.

Huh? Temper tantrum much!

Does that mean you agree or disagree?

If you disagree, why, precisely? I've had a few Trump supporters agree.
.

I have no fking idea what your tantrum meant

I didn't think it was an especially cogent OP either. That's what made it extra laughable when he was trying to claim earlier that I was going off the rails. And he has continued that temper tantrum well throughout this thread. It's sad to see, really.

 

[jc456]

After a LOT of observation and asking a LOT of questions, I've settled on one specific theory as to why Trump's fans have watched and cheered as he has done what he has done to the office of President of the United States: This is one, final, loud, angry primal scream, an historic vent, based on years of pent-up and growing frustration, a guy screaming FUCK YOU to his enemies as he blows up a building with he and his enemies in it.

They've said it themselves: They really DO NOT CARE what he does while in office, because a higher priority for them is pissing off their enemies. How many times have you seen that said on this forum? They've said it over and over. They're gonna hurt their enemies, even if it means real destruction to everything else. Kind of an over-the-top, hopeless, radical chemotherapy treatment for a terminal cancer patient.

Trump's is the first "Fuck it, blow it up, I don't give a shit" presidency. They've been made angrier and angrier by people who have a vested professional interest in fanning the flames, and I also think they realize they let it all get away from them, and now it's just too late. So, fuck it. Blow it up. Then let it burn.

So Trump is their last, loud gasp, their final FUCK YOU, and they're gonna cheer as the building goes up in flames.
.

Huh? Temper tantrum much!

Does that mean you agree or disagree?

If you disagree, why, precisely? I've had a few Trump supporters agree.
.

I have no fking idea what your tantrum meant

I didn't think it was an especially cogent OP either. That's what made it extra laughable when he was trying to claim earlier that I was going off the rails. And he has continued that temper tantrum well throughout this thread. It's sad to see, really.

It's a shame defeat looks so sad! If you can't handle the loss don't get in the game!

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

After a LOT of observation and asking a LOT of questions, I've settled on one specific theory as to why Trump's fans have watched and cheered as he has done what he has done to the office of President of the United States: This is one, final, loud, angry primal scream, an historic vent, based on years of pent-up and growing frustration, a guy screaming FUCK YOU to his enemies as he blows up a building with he and his enemies in it.

They've said it themselves: They really DO NOT CARE what he does while in office, because a higher priority for them is pissing off their enemies. How many times have you seen that said on this forum? They've said it over and over. They're gonna hurt their enemies, even if it means real destruction to everything else. Kind of an over-the-top, hopeless, radical chemotherapy treatment for a terminal cancer patient.

Trump's is the first "Fuck it, blow it up, I don't give a shit" presidency. They've been made angrier and angrier by people who have a vested professional interest in fanning the flames, and I also think they realize they let it all get away from them, and now it's just too late. So, fuck it. Blow it up. Then let it burn.

So Trump is their last, loud gasp, their final FUCK YOU, and they're gonna cheer as the building goes up in flames.
.

Huh? Temper tantrum much!

Does that mean you agree or disagree?

If you disagree, why, precisely? I've had a few Trump supporters agree.
.

I have no fking idea what your tantrum meant

I didn't think it was an especially cogent OP either. That's what made it extra laughable when he was trying to claim earlier that I was going off the rails. And he has continued that temper tantrum well throughout this thread. It's sad to see, really.

It's a shame defeat looks so sad! If you can't handle the loss don't get in the game!

I just think it's extra sad given that he was supporting the biggest piece of shit in the galaxy: Hillary Clinton.

Like, we could have a chimp in office and it would be cause for celebration over having Hillary there.

 

[Two Thumbs]

After a LOT of observation and asking a LOT of questions, I've settled on one specific theory as to why Trump's fans have watched and cheered as he has done what he has done to the office of President of the United States: This is one, final, loud, angry primal scream, an historic vent, based on years of pent-up and growing frustration, a guy screaming FUCK YOU to his enemies as he blows up a building with he and his enemies in it.

They've said it themselves: They really DO NOT CARE what he does while in office, because a higher priority for them is pissing off their enemies. How many times have you seen that said on this forum? They've said it over and over. They're gonna hurt their enemies, even if it means real destruction to everything else. Kind of an over-the-top, hopeless, radical chemotherapy treatment for a terminal cancer patient.

Trump's is the first "Fuck it, blow it up, I don't give a shit" presidency. They've been made angrier and angrier by people who have a vested professional interest in fanning the flames, and I also think they realize they let it all get away from them, and now it's just too late. So, fuck it. Blow it up. Then let it burn.

So Trump is their last, loud gasp, their final FUCK YOU, and they're gonna cheer as the building goes up in flames.
.

been hoping for a revolution for some time.

Here's hoping

 

[Mac1958]

Mac1958I've always taken you for a serious albeit flawed poster. And frankly, compared to most liberal posters on here, that's been mildly refreshing I guess. But honestly, you're letting emotions just take away all objectivity. This thread seems to be more that you wanted to throw yourself a pity party than anything. It falls well below the standard you've set for yourself.

Again, there have been Trump supporters on this thread who have agreed with me. There are also Trump supporters who admit that the guy is often embarrassing. This thread is not a stretch.
.

When I've tried to explore the issue at hand, you've been passive aggressive and/or derisive towards me for giving analysis. Making unfounded accusations and then doubling down on them is contemptible. It's somewhat ironic given the nature of your thread. Any time I've stated what I think is in play for Trump's behavior, you've said that's not the point of the thread. I don't know what the point is if we're not allowed to delve into the forces at play. Apparently, if we bash Trump enough that would be well to the point you'd like. That would be fair to your mind. Defense is not an option. You're basically being a fascist bitch.

I'm a fascist now. Okay, we can run with that. I do like the "bitch" part, it's been a while since I was called that.

My point has been made and confirmed. Trump supporters, as many have specifically said, don't care about his behaviors. And Trump supporters, as many have specifically said, love the fact that his behaviors anger liberals. And there are multiple examples on this thread of Trump supporters being fine with "blowing shit up", metaphorically speaking.

Yet you're mad at me for putting all of that into one thread, and you're acting like I'm coming completely out of left field.

Just as I do with the Regressive Left, I'm using a group's own words. Some folks just don't like that mirror, I get that, but it's not my problem.
.

Maybe, you're in such a tizzy that you don't see it. The 'Trump supporters' saying they don't care have at least to some significant extent said it tongue n' cheek. I've tried to make a more definitive response, noting how it's just simply low priority. But these are the type of things you ignore. Instead, you seem to be fishing for emotional ammo. That's why I say that this pity party thread is below your normal standard. But who knows, maybe this is some sort of therapy you need. That's not to say you're not making an utter ass out of yourself in interim.

I get the personal insults and name-calling from both ends of the spectrum daily. All it means to me is that I'm probably on the right track overall.

Since I don't see you attacking the Trump supporters who don't disagree with me, I'll just throw yours on the pile. Meh.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Yes, I saw that post. You were deflecting away from Trump's behaviors and how his followers tolerate them and changing the subject to something else.

Deflecting from a thread doesn't address the thread.
.

So, to your mind, regarding the root of the problem(s) allegedly dictating "behaviors" is deflecting. Whatever, dude. I can't even wrap my head around that.

I guess I took it as hyperbole when you painted all Trump supporters with a broad brush of not caring and wanting to blow it all up. But you apparently think that it is some sort of absolute fact that I have to defend or otherwise explain and that if I don't adhere to your irrational value judgment, then I'm somehow derailing your thread.

The root of WHAT problem? Trump acting like a spoiled 12 year old who is starved for attention, and his supporters pretending not to see it?

Is Trump responsible for his words, or is he not?
.

not that we don't see it, we don't care.

it's still not hillary and still not illegal. just immature.

Well, that goes back to my OP.
.

except you now make the assumption that i *want* him to piss off the other side.

no, i'd rather they work together but the progressives went all WAH and refuse to even try. and before you do the "well look what they did to obama" remember you're the one asking others to stop deflecting.

The "I like it that he pisses off liberals" meme is pretty much all over this board. Everywhere.
.