Mormon pedo ring gets smacked down by God?

[HUGGY]

Horrible and not a thing wrong with stating an opinion about the cult they were from.

"... which is home base for Warren Jeff's polygamous sect. The majority of the 7,700 people in the two communities are followers of Jeffs' sect or have ties to polygamy..."

Ravi is correct. Deal with it.

True story. Here is proof of what Ravi alleges:

"Bodies recovered Tuesday were found as far as several miles away in the sister towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Arizona — the home base of Warren Jeffs' polygamous sect.

Hildale Mayor Philip Barlow said the three women who died were sisters: Josephine Jessop, Naomi Jessop and Della Black. Josephine Jessop and Naomi Jessop were also sister wives, both married to Joseph N. Jessop. It's not uncommon in the polygamous sect for relatives to marry the same man."

Zion National Park Floods Trapped 7 People in Narrow Canyon

This is getting old! The OP states PEDO (Pedophilia) and Mormons. The article says nothing about that. While they may have been polygamists and FLDS members neither of those equate to pedophilia and/or Mormons.

They marry sisters. How weird is that? Jeffs is the leader of this CULT. HE is a pedophile.

If it walks like a duck...etc....etc....

There is more evidence than not to suggest they are up to something sick.

When the so called tragedy is over I think this whole thing should be investigated as to exactly why these people died. At the very least some bad judgement was exercised.

Flash floods don't happen in a vacuum. When in the desert and it starts raining like hell and there is no vegetation to absorb the rain water you get your ass to high ground PRONTO!

Yes people died. Weird people died. People that use bad judgement died. There needs to be an investigation along the lines of just what kind of bad judgement caused this tragedy.

There was some kind of blogage up stream creating a dam like affect. When the pressure became to great the dam burst and a wall of water came down.
The very next day they were bull dozing a empty creek bed
It was sudden, quick, and ended quick

 

[JakeStarkey]

The women may not have had sufficient warning.

And do we know what was their training for flash floods?

You go up the side of the ravines or hills, not run in front of the flood.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Your church's attempt to trademak [sic] "Mormon" in the US failed.

And, yes, Church Historian Steve Snow and Assistant Church Historian Rick Turley trump both you and lds.org, you bet.

LDS.ORG is the official web site of the Mormon church, along with some affiliated domains, including MORMONNEWSROOM.ORG. These sites contain official, authoritative statements regarding LDS doctrine and policy.

Style Guide — The Name of the Church contains authoritative, official statements regarding the official position of the church with regard to the naming of the church, and the use of the word “Mormon”. There is not any more authoritative source than this regarding these policies.

No matter what authority you may think any other individuals in the church may have, if they give statements that contradict what is found on this site, then they are mistaken.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bob, you are not an authority, the US does not recognize the trademark as LDS property, many more important LDS personages than you don't agree with your position, so you are arguing your opinion.

That's fine. It's wrong. As is the insistence the "Mormon" can only apply to an LDS individual.

You need to try Dan Peterson and Mormon Intepreter. You will fit in there very well.

 

[Blackrook]

OP, it doesn't work that way. People who die in accidents are not more guilty than the rest:

Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2And Jesus said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?3“I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. 4“Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? 5“I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

Luke 13 NASB

 

[tyroneweaver]

OP, it doesn't work that way. People who die in accidents are not more guilty than the rest:

Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2And Jesus said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?3“I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. 4“Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? 5“I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

Luke 13 NASB

Sorta reminds of that line in the Bride of Frankenstein:

Lord Byron: And we three. We elegant three within. I should like to think that an irate Jehovah was pointing those arrows of lightning directly at my head. The unbowed head of George Gordon, Lord Byron. England's greatest sinner.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

They marry sisters. How weird is that? Jeffs is the leader of this CULT. HE is a pedophile.

If it walks like a duck...etc....etc....

There is more evidence than not to suggest they are up to something sick.

When the so called tragedy is over I think this whole thing should be investigated as to exactly why these people died. At the very least some bad judgement was exercised.

Flash floods don't happen in a vacuum. When in the desert and it starts raining like hell and there is no vegetation to absorb the rain water you get your ass to high ground PRONTO!

Yes people died. Weird people died. People that use bad judgement died. There needs to be an investigation along the lines of just what kind of bad judgement caused this tragedy.

If you had a chance, would you drown 12 more children?

Sure you would, little doubt.

There is much evidence that religious wackos make bad decisions when things don't go their way and they are threatened. The Branch Davidians, Jim Jones...and many more.

I've spent many days, weeks and occasionally months out in the boonies. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know that the WORST place to be when it starts raining like hell in the out back is near or IN a wash. Especially a dry wash. If you get up 20 or 30 feet you are safe. They were in cars/station wagons for Christ sakes. They were not sleeping or something explainable. Why were these idiots down in the river bed? How is it that they were already in vehicles and couldn't get a few feet into higher ground AKA safety?

All the years I lived outside Tucson, the news was full of the dangers of flash floods. People think they can beat it. Or, they think that flooding isn't a danger because its desert and everyone knows the desert is dry.

The desert I lived in was a "sub-tropical desert" but many people didn't bother to educate themselves as to what that means. I remember many many times, sitting in my car, looking at the barriers, knowing I should turn around and find another way. I almost always did but there were times when that wasn't possible and I chanced it.

BTW, there are so-called "idiot laws" for those who get stuck and have to be rescued. If there are warning barriers up, they get to pay for their own rescue.

Its horribly sad that children died. They're innocent of the sins of their fathers and deserve a chance at a real life away from that cult.


Note to the dueling morms/christians, Jake and Blaylock and others - Why do these threads always turn into pissing contests about who is the better christian? I can't imagine Jesus ever doing this.

 

[tyroneweaver]

Bob, you are not an authority, the US does not recognize the trademark as LDS property, many more important LDS personages than you don't agree with your position, so you are arguing your opinion.

That's fine. It's wrong. As is the insistence the "Mormon" can only apply to an LDS individual.

You need to try Dan Peterson and Mormon Intepreter. You will fit in there very well.

what if others try and trademark the name,"Mormon" They don't have the right either.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Bob, you are not an authority, the US does not recognize the trademark as LDS property, many more important LDS personages than you don't agree with your position, so you are arguing your opinion.

That's fine. It's wrong. As is the insistence the "Mormon" can only apply to an LDS individual.

You need to try Dan Peterson and Mormon Intepreter [sic]. You will fit in there very well.

I don't claim that authority.

An important point is that not one of the sources that you are citing as authorities on the subject has any more authority than I do.

The church's own official website is authoritative, and represents the official position of the church, and I have shown you what it says on the subject.

 

[HUGGY]

There is much evidence that religious wackos make bad decisions when things don't go their way and they are threatened. The Branch Davidians, Jim Jones...and many more.

I've spent many days, weeks and occasionally months out in the boonies. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know that the WORST place to be when it starts raining like hell in the out back is near or IN a wash. Especially a dry wash. If you get up 20 or 30 feet you are safe. They were in cars/station wagons for Christ sakes. They were not sleeping or something explainable. Why were these idiots down in the river bed? How is it that they were already in vehicles and couldn't get a few feet into higher ground AKA safety?

12 children died in a flash flood, and you sick fuckers are cheering it.

Leftism is clearly a mental disease.

You are an idiot on both counts.

I am not cheering the deaths. I am deeply concerned about the dangerous stupidity clearly displayed by these religious wackos.

Also as I have explained many times I am not a "lib". True I am not religious, but I am not going to vote democratic now or have I in the past. I would gladly support a republican if one with good character, common sense and someone that distances him/her self from the idiot religious so called conservatives should appear.

 

[HUGGY]

They marry sisters. How weird is that? Jeffs is the leader of this CULT. HE is a pedophile.

If it walks like a duck...etc....etc....

There is more evidence than not to suggest they are up to something sick.

When the so called tragedy is over I think this whole thing should be investigated as to exactly why these people died. At the very least some bad judgement was exercised.

Flash floods don't happen in a vacuum. When in the desert and it starts raining like hell and there is no vegetation to absorb the rain water you get your ass to high ground PRONTO!

Yes people died. Weird people died. People that use bad judgement died. There needs to be an investigation along the lines of just what kind of bad judgement caused this tragedy.

If you had a chance, would you drown 12 more children?

Sure you would, little doubt.

There is much evidence that religious wackos make bad decisions when things don't go their way and they are threatened. The Branch Davidians, Jim Jones...and many more.

I've spent many days, weeks and occasionally months out in the boonies. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know that the WORST place to be when it starts raining like hell in the out back is near or IN a wash. Especially a dry wash. If you get up 20 or 30 feet you are safe. They were in cars/station wagons for Christ sakes. They were not sleeping or something explainable. Why were these idiots down in the river bed? How is it that they were already in vehicles and couldn't get a few feet into higher ground AKA safety?

All the years I lived outside Tucson, the news was full of the dangers of flash floods. People think they can beat it. Or, they think that flooding isn't a danger because its desert and everyone knows the desert is dry.

The desert I lived in was a "sub-tropical desert" but many people didn't bother to educate themselves as to what that means. I remember many many times, sitting in my car, looking at the barriers, knowing I should turn around and find another way. I almost always did but there were times when that wasn't possible and I chanced it.

BTW, there are so-called "idiot laws" for those who get stuck and have to be rescued. If there are warning barriers up, they get to pay for their own rescue.

Its horribly sad that children died. They're innocent of the sins of their fathers and deserve a chance at a real life away from that cult.


Note to the dueling morms/christians, Jake and Blaylock and others - Why do these threads always turn into pissing contests about who is the better christian? I can't imagine Jesus ever doing this.

I can't understand why people don't just get the hell out of their vehicles sometimes and just get the several feet needed to gain enough elevation to be safe. It's the same with people that stop at RR crossings. Just get the F out of the car and walk 10 feet to safety.

 

[JakeStarkey]

When someone says "Why do these threads always turn into pissing contests about who is the better christian?", it is almost always, as above, a flat mischaracteriation.

Bob and I are talking about his silly belief that the 'Mormon' only means LDS believers, when, in fact, the govt made sure that the trademark was left open for all believers in Joseph Smith.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bob, you are not an authority, the US does not recognize the trademark as LDS property, many more important LDS personages than you don't agree with your position, so you are arguing your opinion.

That's fine. It's wrong. As is the insistence the "Mormon" can only apply to an LDS individual.

You need to try Dan Peterson and Mormon Intepreter. You will fit in there very well.

what if others try and trademark the name,"Mormon" They don't have the right either.

That's right. So for now a "Mormon" is anyone who follows JS. You are an LDS Mormon.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bob, you are not an authority, the US does not recognize the trademark as LDS property, many more important LDS personages than you don't agree with your position, so you are arguing your opinion.

That's fine. It's wrong. As is the insistence the "Mormon" can only apply to an LDS individual.

You need to try Dan Peterson and Mormon Intepreter [sic]. You will fit in there very well.

I don't claim that authority.

An important point is that not one of the sources that you are citing as authorities on the subject has any more authority than I do.

The church's own official website is authoritative, and represents the official position of the church, and I have shown you what it says on the subject.

The church's definition is not authoritative. The LDS Church was not allowed to trademark 'Mormon.' Thus the opinion of the church is an . . . opinion.

 

[Ravi]

It is difficult to understand why so many Mormons that come from the Salt Lake (LDS) branch simply don't recognize or even understand the hundreds of additional branches within Mormonism.

This book is a must read for any Mormon that is unaware of the different divisions in their religion.

I always find it amusing when foolish, ignorant outsiders try to claim that I don't know my own religion, and that they do.

Do you have any idea how foolish such a claim makes you look?

In any event, no, there are not any such divisions within my religion.

What Joseph Smith founded in 1830 was a single, unified organization, with an orderly structure. After his death, there were a number of different claims to succession, which resulted in that organization breaking apart into several organizations and going off in different directions. None of these organizations is any kind of branch or division within any other, and other than their common historical origin, none of them have anything to do with any other.

There could be some room to argue which of these organizations has the strongest claim to being the original one, and which of these owns the term “Mormon”, but history seems to have rather well settled any such argument.

The Protestant Reformation did not create any new branches or divisions within the Catholic church. Like the Mormon church, the Catholic church has an orderly, hierarchical structure, which clearly defines who is and who is not within that organization. The Protestant churches left the Catholic church, and are no longer a part of it. Only those who are within the organization that is the Catholic Church are Catholics.

Likewise, those who founded the FLDS did not create a new branch or division within the Mormon church. They left the Mormon church, and created their own new organization, their own new church, outside of the Mormon church.

Is that you Bob?

 

[Ravi]

OP, it doesn't work that way. People who die in accidents are not more guilty than the rest:

Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2And Jesus said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?3“I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. 4“Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? 5“I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

Luke 13 NASB

Jeff's group believes in blood atonement for crimes like adultery.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

BTW, this OP is extra stupid b/c it was women and children who died. Maybe, Ravi's god smites the victims and not the perpetrators, I dunno. But for those of us living in reality.....

For those who missed it. Ravi certainly didn't have the vag to reply.

I did answer it. What better way for God to punish evil doers than kill their loved ones.

You're thinking The Devil, hack.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Two polygamist widowers speak out with their surviving sons after their three wives and 10 of their children were killed in flash flood on the Arizona-Utah border

• Ten children and three of their moms were were killed on Monday when a flash flood swept their two vehicles away in Hildale, Utah
• Another child - a boy aged six - is missing
• The small town on the Arizona-Utah border is home to the polygamist sect once run by Warren Jeffs
• On Thursday, Sheldon Black Jr and Joseph N. Jessop appeared at a press conference to speak about their dead wives and children
• Black lost his wife Della and four daughters - while a son, Tyson, is missing
• Jessop lost two wives, Josephine and Naomi, and five children
• The three wives were also biological sisters
• Two of Black's sons and one of Joesph's sons survived the tragedy and appeared with their fathers at the news conference
• Seven adults hikers were also killed in the floods in Zion National Park

Read more: Polygamist dads lost three wives and 10 children in flash flood
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I wish I didn't do this but I can't seem to NOT think about and imagine the last moments of victims of horrible deaths.

And even worse because they were just little kids.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Luddly, you are right. It's horrible. And it's final, over, for the mothers and children and what they could have been. And for the hikers.

All the families suffer terribly, and we who remain ponder what it shows us about our own lives.

Below the black rim of Utah, the red waste lands stretch for hundreds of miles, scored with the socorros and their small streams. People forget just how deadly are the flash floods.

I guess the mothers thought they would be safe in the SUVs.

The only safety is high ground.