MW advocates - what are the downsides of minimum wage?

[Wyatt earp]

Dude it's always zero no matter what you put the national minimum wage at .

It's always ground zero..



And it's always been racist..to keep minority's from working all around the world..

.

Repeating that isnt going to make it true. Now that you told me the reason I provided a fix for you.

That was the reason why the world was using minimum wage you Tard ..to keep the black man from working..

I have a 100 links to back up the fact


The Racist History of Minimum Wage Laws | Chris Calton




In 1966, Milton Friedman wrote an op-ed for Newsweek entitled "Minimum Wage Rates." In it, he argued "that the minimum-wage law is the most anti-Negro law on our statute books." He was, of course, referring to the then-present era, after the far more explicitly racist laws from the slavery and segregation eras of United States history had already been done away with. But his observation about the racist effects of minimum wage laws can be traced back to the nineteenth century, and they continue to have a disproportionately deleterious effect on African-Americans into the present day.

The earliest of such laws were regulations passed in regards to the railroad industry. At the end of the nineteenth century, as Dr. Walter Williams points out, "On some railroads — most notably in the South — blacks were 85–90 percent of the firemen, 27 percent of the brakemen, and 12 percent of the switchmen."1

The Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen, unable to block railroad companies from hiring the non-unionized black workers, called for regulations preventing the employment of blacks. In 1909, a compromise was offered: a minimum wage, which was to be imposed equally on all races.

To the pro-minimum wage advocate, this may superficially seem like an anti-racist policy. During this time, with racism still rampant throughout the United States, blacks were only able to enjoy such high levels of employment by accepting lower wages than their white counterparts. These wage-gaps at the time genuinely were the product of racist sentiment.

But this new wage rule, of course, did not eliminate the racism of nineteenth-century employers. Instead, it displaced their racism at the expense of black workers. One white union member at the time celebrated the new rule for removing "the incentive for employing the Negro."2 This early minimum wage rule was explicitly put in place to prevent African-Americans from finding employment, and it was successful in this goal.


.

You want more?


The Racist History of Minimum Wage – The Enclave of Others – Medium


The Racist History of Minimum Wage




The Progressive era lasted from the 1890s to 1930s. During this time, Progressives sought to use the powers of the government to fulfill social goals. Among these goals was a eugenics plot that was designed to keep the nation’s gene pool healthy.

Historian Thomas C Leonard notesthat Progressives justified their eugenic claims with race science. Statistician Frederick Hoffman’s, Race Traits of the American Negro, claimed black hereditary inferiority would make them extinct. Richmond Mayo-Smith, a Columbian economist, believed blacks lacked the intelligence needed for full equality.

It is important to note that blacks were forced by widespread racism to take lower wages. This undercutting of workers angered Progressives. Charles Henderson, University of Chicago sociologist, said the unemployable

“bid low against competent and self-supporting men who are trying to maintain or raise their standard of living; and they can do this just this because they are irresponsible and partly parasitic.”
Groups who were not male or Anglo-Saxon were not deserving of a living wage and a higher standard of living. As John Graham Brooks, the first president of the National Consumers League, said standards of living were a “question of race.”

In order to justify stripping these groups of economic freedom, Progressives had to explain the reasons they would take lower wages. The argument that Blacks and Chinese immigrants accepted lower wages because of a lack of intelligence was a common one.

Another more widespread argument was made by linking race to Americanism. The Chinese diet and living practices were used to justify their inferiority. According to Woodrow Wilson, their yellow skin and eating habits made them “un-American.”

By linking race to ideals of Americanism, Progressives were able to justify excluding them from the economy. They did this through labor and wage regulations.

George Mason University professor, Walter Williams, is the man responsible for opening my eyes to the disastrous effects of minimum wage. In his book, Race and Economics, he discusses the racist history of minimum wage and other forms of labor regulation.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Dude it's always zero no matter what you put the national minimum wage at .

It's always ground zero..



And it's always been racist..to keep minority's from working all around the world..

.

Repeating that isnt going to make it true. Now that you told me the reason I provided a fix for you.

That was the reason why the world was using minimum wage you Tard ..to keep the black man from working..

I have a 100 links to back up the fact


The Racist History of Minimum Wage Laws | Chris Calton




In 1966, Milton Friedman wrote an op-ed for Newsweek entitled "Minimum Wage Rates." In it, he argued "that the minimum-wage law is the most anti-Negro law on our statute books." He was, of course, referring to the then-present era, after the far more explicitly racist laws from the slavery and segregation eras of United States history had already been done away with. But his observation about the racist effects of minimum wage laws can be traced back to the nineteenth century, and they continue to have a disproportionately deleterious effect on African-Americans into the present day.

The earliest of such laws were regulations passed in regards to the railroad industry. At the end of the nineteenth century, as Dr. Walter Williams points out, "On some railroads — most notably in the South — blacks were 85–90 percent of the firemen, 27 percent of the brakemen, and 12 percent of the switchmen."1

The Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen, unable to block railroad companies from hiring the non-unionized black workers, called for regulations preventing the employment of blacks. In 1909, a compromise was offered: a minimum wage, which was to be imposed equally on all races.

To the pro-minimum wage advocate, this may superficially seem like an anti-racist policy. During this time, with racism still rampant throughout the United States, blacks were only able to enjoy such high levels of employment by accepting lower wages than their white counterparts. These wage-gaps at the time genuinely were the product of racist sentiment.

But this new wage rule, of course, did not eliminate the racism of nineteenth-century employers. Instead, it displaced their racism at the expense of black workers. One white union member at the time celebrated the new rule for removing "the incentive for employing the Negro."2 This early minimum wage rule was explicitly put in place to prevent African-Americans from finding employment, and it was successful in this goal.


.

You want more?


The Racist History of Minimum Wage – The Enclave of Others – Medium


The Racist History of Minimum Wage




The Progressive era lasted from the 1890s to 1930s. During this time, Progressives sought to use the powers of the government to fulfill social goals. Among these goals was a eugenics plot that was designed to keep the nation’s gene pool healthy.

Historian Thomas C Leonard notesthat Progressives justified their eugenic claims with race science. Statistician Frederick Hoffman’s, Race Traits of the American Negro, claimed black hereditary inferiority would make them extinct. Richmond Mayo-Smith, a Columbian economist, believed blacks lacked the intelligence needed for full equality.

It is important to note that blacks were forced by widespread racism to take lower wages. This undercutting of workers angered Progressives. Charles Henderson, University of Chicago sociologist, said the unemployable

“bid low against competent and self-supporting men who are trying to maintain or raise their standard of living; and they can do this just this because they are irresponsible and partly parasitic.”
Groups who were not male or Anglo-Saxon were not deserving of a living wage and a higher standard of living. As John Graham Brooks, the first president of the National Consumers League, said standards of living were a “question of race.”

In order to justify stripping these groups of economic freedom, Progressives had to explain the reasons they would take lower wages. The argument that Blacks and Chinese immigrants accepted lower wages because of a lack of intelligence was a common one.

Another more widespread argument was made by linking race to Americanism. The Chinese diet and living practices were used to justify their inferiority. According to Woodrow Wilson, their yellow skin and eating habits made them “un-American.”

By linking race to ideals of Americanism, Progressives were able to justify excluding them from the economy. They did this through labor and wage regulations.

George Mason University professor, Walter Williams, is the man responsible for opening my eyes to the disastrous effects of minimum wage. In his book, Race and Economics, he discusses the racist history of minimum wage and other forms of labor regulation.

Dude I know my facts and history well read.


From forbes..

On The Historically Racist Motivations Behind Minimum Wage



The business-friendly National Center for Policy Analysis points out“the 1931 Davis-Bacon Act, requiring ‘prevailing’ wages on federally assisted construction projects, was supported by the idea that it would keep contractors from using ‘cheap colored labor’ to underbid contractors using white labor.”

African-American economist Thomas Sowell with Stanford University’s Hoover Institution gives an uncomfortable historical primer behind minimum wage laws:

 

[Wyatt earp]

South Africa.

Minimum Wage and Discrimination, by Walter E.Williams


even more insidious substitution effect of minimum wages can be seen from a few quotations. During South Africa's apartheid era, racist unions, which would never accept a black member, were the major supporters of minimum wages for blacks. In 1925, the South African Economic and Wage Commission said, "Tratehe method would be to fix a minimum for an occupation or craft so high that no Native would be likely to be employed." Gert Beetge, secretary of the racist Building Workers' Union, complained, "There is no job reservation left in the building industry, and in the circumstances, I support the rate for the job (minimum wage) as the second-best way of protecting our white artisans." "Equal pay for equal work" became the rallying slogan of the South African white labor movement. These laborers knew that if employers were forced to pay black workers the same wages as white workers, there'd be reduced incentive to hire blacks

 

[Wyatt earp]

Bottom line minimum wage laws are racist to the core..


and this is coming from a JFK conservative.


.

 

[rightwinger]

Common sense says it won't work and history proves that costs or unemployment will have to increase.

Common sense is obviously something completely foreign to you.

History has shown conclusively that we don't actually know what raising the MW does to unemployment nor inflation, because we've never fucking done it. The MW has steadily lost value since 1938. To the point now that it i worth 88% of what it was as short as 40 years ago.

So just stop with your nonfactual "history has shown us" nonsense.

We have never raised the minimum wage? Are you intentionally stupid or just plain ignorant?

He is wrong.

The minimum wage is worth about 25 percent of what it was 40 years ago

 

[rightwinger]

You think you can put minimum wage up so high that it can out beat prices .


Lol it's the tail wagging the dog.

I thought thats what you meant but I wasnt sure. Anyone that raises their prices gets charged with price gouging and a lengthy prison fine. If you sold a bar of soap for a $1 yesterday you better not raise the price because of MW going up.

Let them raise their prices
They raise their prices when the cost of supplies go up or anything else goes up

Cost of doing business

 

[Wyatt earp]

You think you can put minimum wage up so high that it can out beat prices .


Lol it's the tail wagging the dog.

I thought thats what you meant but I wasnt sure. Anyone that raises their prices gets charged with price gouging and a lengthy prison fine. If you sold a bar of soap for a $1 yesterday you better not raise the price because of MW going up.

Let them raise their prices
They raise their prices when the cost of supplies go up or anything else goes up

Cost of doing business

Why don't you just tip them well?

 

[danielpalos]

Cool. So what is the problem with raising MW if the wages are a tax write off for the business? Everyone keeps saying its an expense the businesses have to eat.

Deduction not write off...similar but definitely not the same.

Whats the difference? Both reduce your taxable income. Matter of fact I use the two interchangeably.

And neither compensates a business owner for increased labor costs. Not even sure why you brought it up. It's irrelevant.

the increased "tax write off" does that.

Christ sake, one more time, it's a deduction not a write off.

If labor costs increase, so does the deduction. An employer gets a tax break for simply doing their Job and paying their labor.

Labor should get a deduction for merely specializing in their Labor field. A standard deduction is for people who merely provide labor but don't specialize in a given specialty.

 

[Thinker101]

Deduction not write off...similar but definitely not the same.

Whats the difference? Both reduce your taxable income. Matter of fact I use the two interchangeably.

And neither compensates a business owner for increased labor costs. Not even sure why you brought it up. It's irrelevant.

So you are seriously claiming that if a business owner has to pay say 400k in wages for his employees and gets to write it off thats not compensation? Have you been drug tested recently?

Yeah, it doesn't work that way. Do you do your own taxes?

Nope. My accountant does it and I write off my employees wages.

Great, then you should consult with your accountant.

 

[Lesh]

I just want Bear to explain what he means by the MW being zero. Does anyone else know what he is talking about?

Hard to tell from his cryptic idiocy but it sounds like he's advocating for slavery

 

[rightwinger]

You think you can put minimum wage up so high that it can out beat prices .


Lol it's the tail wagging the dog.

I thought thats what you meant but I wasnt sure. Anyone that raises their prices gets charged with price gouging and a lengthy prison fine. If you sold a bar of soap for a $1 yesterday you better not raise the price because of MW going up.

Let them raise their prices
They raise their prices when the cost of supplies go up or anything else goes up

Cost of doing business

Why don't you just tip them well?

I do that too

 

[danielpalos]

the downsides can be accounted for; the upside is what matters.

 

[Lesh]

Yes, and you are obviously a complete moron.

Here was the idiotic math I was responding to..that the esteemed Admiral considered moronic...

We've done what forever? Raised the minimum wage? What utter nonsense. If inflation over a 4 year period is 8% and your employee gives you a 2% raise over the same time frame, have you really received a 2% raise? The answer is most assuredly no .

Do you not understand the truth of that as well?

 

[hadit]

If MW were raised to $11 an hour , welfare use would drop by at least 15% by most studies. That's a pretty good savings of tax dollars.

How much will inflation go up after they have to give me and every other worker above minimum wage another $4.00 an hour raise to keep my pay in line?

How silly. First of all, sorry you're only earning minimum wage, second of all, a small portion of wage earners are and would thus receive a $4 an hour raise. Most people are already around the $9-10 range (lower end workers we're talking about) and thus would receive at most a $2 an hour raise, and that is if we immediately raised it to the correct level, which I haven't advocated.

So people making $9 an hour would get a raise to make minimum wage


.

The ripple effect would be huge. Everyone making $11-$12/hr, for instance, would also demand a raise because all of a sudden they would only be making a little above minimum and all their skill, training and experience wouldn't get them much more than a guy of the street sweeping floors. Many pharmacy techs, for example, make $10-$12/hr, have to be trained and licensed, and we trust them with our medications.

Thats demonstrably false. People get paid just enough not quit right now and they dont demand a raise because someone else will gladly take their job.

Demonstrate it. I believe people will not pursue a career that requires training and technical expertise if they earn just a little more than MW. Why would they put time and effort into training courses, passing a licensing exam, and annual continuing education, for one example, to earn $11/hour when they can earn $10/hour with no experience or training doing a less demanding job?

Convince me.

 

[hadit]

How much will inflation go up after they have to give me and every other worker above minimum wage another $4.00 an hour raise to keep my pay in line?

How silly. First of all, sorry you're only earning minimum wage, second of all, a small portion of wage earners are and would thus receive a $4 an hour raise. Most people are already around the $9-10 range (lower end workers we're talking about) and thus would receive at most a $2 an hour raise, and that is if we immediately raised it to the correct level, which I haven't advocated.

So people making $9 an hour would get a raise to make minimum wage


.

The ripple effect would be huge. Everyone making $11-$12/hr, for instance, would also demand a raise because all of a sudden they would only be making a little above minimum and all their skill, training and experience wouldn't get them much more than a guy of the street sweeping floors. Many pharmacy techs, for example, make $10-$12/hr, have to be trained and licensed, and we trust them with our medications.

Thats demonstrably false. People get paid just enough not quit right now and they dont demand a raise because someone else will gladly take their job.

Correct.

Many people have little to no idea how much their co-workers make. Even more don't care. If I'm happy at my job and my wage, someone else getting a raise doesn't bother me one bit.

Knowing that you could make almost as much with less effort, however, makes a difference. Many put effort into a career so they can make more. Why would they continue to do so when they know anyone walking in off the street doing any low demand job can earn almost as much?

 

[Asclepias]

How much will inflation go up after they have to give me and every other worker above minimum wage another $4.00 an hour raise to keep my pay in line?

How silly. First of all, sorry you're only earning minimum wage, second of all, a small portion of wage earners are and would thus receive a $4 an hour raise. Most people are already around the $9-10 range (lower end workers we're talking about) and thus would receive at most a $2 an hour raise, and that is if we immediately raised it to the correct level, which I haven't advocated.

So people making $9 an hour would get a raise to make minimum wage


.

The ripple effect would be huge. Everyone making $11-$12/hr, for instance, would also demand a raise because all of a sudden they would only be making a little above minimum and all their skill, training and experience wouldn't get them much more than a guy of the street sweeping floors. Many pharmacy techs, for example, make $10-$12/hr, have to be trained and licensed, and we trust them with our medications.

Thats demonstrably false. People get paid just enough not quit right now and they dont demand a raise because someone else will gladly take their job.

Demonstrate it. I believe people will not pursue a career that requires training and technical expertise if they earn just a little more than MW. Why would they put time and effort into training courses, passing a licensing exam, and annual continuing education, for one example, to earn $11/hour when they can earn $10/hour with no experience or training doing a less demanding job?

Convince me.

That doesnt make sense. I dont know any position that requires licensing and continuing education that only makes $10/hr. If such a position did exist they would do it simply because it brought them some satisfaction with or without MW being raised.

 

[Asclepias]

Whats the difference? Both reduce your taxable income. Matter of fact I use the two interchangeably.

And neither compensates a business owner for increased labor costs. Not even sure why you brought it up. It's irrelevant.

So you are seriously claiming that if a business owner has to pay say 400k in wages for his employees and gets to write it off thats not compensation? Have you been drug tested recently?

Yeah, it doesn't work that way. Do you do your own taxes?

Nope. My accountant does it and I write off my employees wages.

Great, then you should consult with your accountant.

Already did. He like the link I provided told me it reduces your taxable income.

 

[Roo2]

How silly. First of all, sorry you're only earning minimum wage, second of all, a small portion of wage earners are and would thus receive a $4 an hour raise. Most people are already around the $9-10 range (lower end workers we're talking about) and thus would receive at most a $2 an hour raise, and that is if we immediately raised it to the correct level, which I haven't advocated.

So people making $9 an hour would get a raise to make minimum wage


.

The ripple effect would be huge. Everyone making $11-$12/hr, for instance, would also demand a raise because all of a sudden they would only be making a little above minimum and all their skill, training and experience wouldn't get them much more than a guy of the street sweeping floors. Many pharmacy techs, for example, make $10-$12/hr, have to be trained and licensed, and we trust them with our medications.

Thats demonstrably false. People get paid just enough not quit right now and they dont demand a raise because someone else will gladly take their job.

Demonstrate it. I believe people will not pursue a career that requires training and technical expertise if they earn just a little more than MW. Why would they put time and effort into training courses, passing a licensing exam, and annual continuing education, for one example, to earn $11/hour when they can earn $10/hour with no experience or training doing a less demanding job?

Convince me.

That doesnt make sense. I dont know any position that requires licensing and continuing education that only makes $10/hr. If such a position did exist they would do it simply because it brought them some satisfaction with or without MW being raised.

Check out what your local EMT's make.

 

[Asclepias]

South Africa.

Minimum Wage and Discrimination, by Walter E.Williams


even more insidious substitution effect of minimum wages can be seen from a few quotations. During South Africa's apartheid era, racist unions, which would never accept a black member, were the major supporters of minimum wages for blacks. In 1925, the South African Economic and Wage Commission said, "Tratehe method would be to fix a minimum for an occupation or craft so high that no Native would be likely to be employed." Gert Beetge, secretary of the racist Building Workers' Union, complained, "There is no job reservation left in the building industry, and in the circumstances, I support the rate for the job (minimum wage) as the second-best way of protecting our white artisans." "Equal pay for equal work" became the rallying slogan of the South African white labor movement. These laborers knew that if employers were forced to pay black workers the same wages as white workers, there'd be reduced incentive to hire blacks

So what youre saying is that white people cant be trusted not to be racist?

 

[Asclepias]

So people making $9 an hour would get a raise to make minimum wage


.

The ripple effect would be huge. Everyone making $11-$12/hr, for instance, would also demand a raise because all of a sudden they would only be making a little above minimum and all their skill, training and experience wouldn't get them much more than a guy of the street sweeping floors. Many pharmacy techs, for example, make $10-$12/hr, have to be trained and licensed, and we trust them with our medications.

Thats demonstrably false. People get paid just enough not quit right now and they dont demand a raise because someone else will gladly take their job.

Demonstrate it. I believe people will not pursue a career that requires training and technical expertise if they earn just a little more than MW. Why would they put time and effort into training courses, passing a licensing exam, and annual continuing education, for one example, to earn $11/hour when they can earn $10/hour with no experience or training doing a less demanding job?

Convince me.

That doesnt make sense. I dont know any position that requires licensing and continuing education that only makes $10/hr. If such a position did exist they would do it simply because it brought them some satisfaction with or without MW being raised.

Check out what your local EMT's make.

EMTs at entry level where I lives start off....

EMT Salaries in California | Indeed.com

Also like I said EMTs target their jobs because it brings them some satisfaction and paves the road to other things like being a fire fighter.