MW advocates - what are the downsides of minimum wage?

[Asclepias]

Thats demonstrably false. People get paid just enough not quit right now and they dont demand a raise because someone else will gladly take their job.

Demonstrate it. I believe people will not pursue a career that requires training and technical expertise if they earn just a little more than MW. Why would they put time and effort into training courses, passing a licensing exam, and annual continuing education, for one example, to earn $11/hour when they can earn $10/hour with no experience or training doing a less demanding job?

Convince me.

That doesnt make sense. I dont know any position that requires licensing and continuing education that only makes $10/hr. If such a position did exist they would do it simply because it brought them some satisfaction with or without MW being raised.

Pharmacy technicians can expect to be paid anywhere from $9-$12/hr in most retail pharmacies, and to be a pharmacy tech, you must first show that you have gone through an approved training course and pass an exam. Then, to maintain your certification, you must regularly earn continuing education credits. You can earn higher pay if you get into a long term care (non retail) pharmacy or if you get specialized certifications. My wife did all of those in her career, so I have close knowledge of the industry. She also taught pharmacy tech classes at a career college. Without those extra efforts, she would have been stuck at a much lower pay rate.

At least one of the students she taught faced just that situation. He spent a lot of money (and time) to get his education, then took and passed the exam, only to find his best paying offer was around $11-$12/hr. Do you really think he would have bothered with all that if he could have swept floors for $10/hr and maybe worked up from there?

Like I said...it makes zero sense. Why would someone go to a job sweeping floors when they can be a pharmacy tech and work their way up from there?

Many of the students my wife taught had to be persuaded to stay in the program because they were never taught to take the long term view of life. Most were black women around 21 from low income families who did poorly in school and were desperate for a new start and who rarely thought beyond the next few years. They often were sacrificing quite a bit as it was, giving up time with their children to study. If they could walk into a MW job for a dollar or so less an hour than what they could make after all that work, they would never have bothered.

Thats another falsehood. Given a choice between sweeping floors and being a pharmacy tech most if not all people would choose to be a pharmacy tech. Ever heard of Maslows hierarchy of needs?

 

[hadit]

Demonstrate it. I believe people will not pursue a career that requires training and technical expertise if they earn just a little more than MW. Why would they put time and effort into training courses, passing a licensing exam, and annual continuing education, for one example, to earn $11/hour when they can earn $10/hour with no experience or training doing a less demanding job?

Convince me.

That doesnt make sense. I dont know any position that requires licensing and continuing education that only makes $10/hr. If such a position did exist they would do it simply because it brought them some satisfaction with or without MW being raised.

Pharmacy technicians can expect to be paid anywhere from $9-$12/hr in most retail pharmacies, and to be a pharmacy tech, you must first show that you have gone through an approved training course and pass an exam. Then, to maintain your certification, you must regularly earn continuing education credits. You can earn higher pay if you get into a long term care (non retail) pharmacy or if you get specialized certifications. My wife did all of those in her career, so I have close knowledge of the industry. She also taught pharmacy tech classes at a career college. Without those extra efforts, she would have been stuck at a much lower pay rate.

At least one of the students she taught faced just that situation. He spent a lot of money (and time) to get his education, then took and passed the exam, only to find his best paying offer was around $11-$12/hr. Do you really think he would have bothered with all that if he could have swept floors for $10/hr and maybe worked up from there?

Like I said...it makes zero sense. Why would someone go to a job sweeping floors when they can be a pharmacy tech and work their way up from there?

What's the point busting your ass if the government decides to give a burger flipper the same wage as you?

Job satisfaction. Some people take pride in the job they do regardless of salary. At least people that have a work ethic.

Many don't.

 

[hadit]

Demonstrate it. I believe people will not pursue a career that requires training and technical expertise if they earn just a little more than MW. Why would they put time and effort into training courses, passing a licensing exam, and annual continuing education, for one example, to earn $11/hour when they can earn $10/hour with no experience or training doing a less demanding job?

Convince me.

That doesnt make sense. I dont know any position that requires licensing and continuing education that only makes $10/hr. If such a position did exist they would do it simply because it brought them some satisfaction with or without MW being raised.

Pharmacy technicians can expect to be paid anywhere from $9-$12/hr in most retail pharmacies, and to be a pharmacy tech, you must first show that you have gone through an approved training course and pass an exam. Then, to maintain your certification, you must regularly earn continuing education credits. You can earn higher pay if you get into a long term care (non retail) pharmacy or if you get specialized certifications. My wife did all of those in her career, so I have close knowledge of the industry. She also taught pharmacy tech classes at a career college. Without those extra efforts, she would have been stuck at a much lower pay rate.

At least one of the students she taught faced just that situation. He spent a lot of money (and time) to get his education, then took and passed the exam, only to find his best paying offer was around $11-$12/hr. Do you really think he would have bothered with all that if he could have swept floors for $10/hr and maybe worked up from there?

Like I said...it makes zero sense. Why would someone go to a job sweeping floors when they can be a pharmacy tech and work their way up from there?

Many of the students my wife taught had to be persuaded to stay in the program because they were never taught to take the long term view of life. Most were black women around 21 from low income families who did poorly in school and were desperate for a new start and who rarely thought beyond the next few years. They often were sacrificing quite a bit as it was, giving up time with their children to study. If they could walk into a MW job for a dollar or so less an hour than what they could make after all that work, they would never have bothered.

Thats another falsehood. Given a choice between sweeping floors and being a pharmacy tech most if not all people would choose to be a pharmacy tech. Ever heard of Maslows hierarchy of needs?

Some would, absolutely. But many would not. As I pointed out, my wife has talked with and encouraged many of her students to stick to the training because they thought it was too difficult and not worth what they would get paid. Set MW to a dollar less than what they could normally get and who would go through the expense, time and trouble?

 

[rightwinger]

Employers have sat on their wallets the last decade

Time to pay up

Are you a business person?

I am an American

Business has capitalized on low wages for a decade. We just gave them a tax cut. Time to pay up

That's a no.
Businesses are not run on a whim.They are run on forethought and planning.
They are a money making enterprise for the owners. IF they can't plan ahead they fail.
If they can't forecast their costs and adjust their practices and expenditures correctly they pull back.
Yu would know this if you were a business person and not just a taker.

They have been planning on paying substandard wages for a decade

Time to start paying up

 

[hadit]

Employers have sat on their wallets the last decade

Time to pay up

Are you a business person?

I am an American

Business has capitalized on low wages for a decade. We just gave them a tax cut. Time to pay up

That's a no.
Businesses are not run on a whim.They are run on forethought and planning.
They are a money making enterprise for the owners. IF they can't plan ahead they fail.
If they can't forecast their costs and adjust their practices and expenditures correctly they pull back.
Yu would know this if you were a business person and not just a taker.

They have been planning on paying substandard wages for a decade

Time to start paying up

Get ready to pay more for everything. Time to pay up.

 

[rightwinger]

Thats demonstrably false. People get paid just enough not quit right now and they dont demand a raise because someone else will gladly take their job.

Demonstrate it. I believe people will not pursue a career that requires training and technical expertise if they earn just a little more than MW. Why would they put time and effort into training courses, passing a licensing exam, and annual continuing education, for one example, to earn $11/hour when they can earn $10/hour with no experience or training doing a less demanding job?

Convince me.

Exactly

Forces employers to raise their pay scale
Won’t do so otherwise

Which in turn raises prices for medications, which hurts the poor and those on a fixed income the most. Grandma now has to choose to keep the heat on and eat or pay inflated prices for her meds because the techs at the pharmacy got big raises. Way to go.

Cut me a fucking break
It is pure greed driving up medications not minimum wage

Jack everyone's wages a lot and those prices will go up too. Are you really foolish enough to think that you can severely raise labor costs with no impact?

Jack up pharmacy assistant wages and prices of prescriptions will go up pennies

Greed is jacking up prices thousands of dollars

 

[Roo2]

Demonstrate it. I believe people will not pursue a career that requires training and technical expertise if they earn just a little more than MW. Why would they put time and effort into training courses, passing a licensing exam, and annual continuing education, for one example, to earn $11/hour when they can earn $10/hour with no experience or training doing a less demanding job?

Convince me.

Exactly

Forces employers to raise their pay scale
Won’t do so otherwise

Which in turn raises prices for medications, which hurts the poor and those on a fixed income the most. Grandma now has to choose to keep the heat on and eat or pay inflated prices for her meds because the techs at the pharmacy got big raises. Way to go.

Cut me a fucking break
It is pure greed driving up medications not minimum wage

Jack everyone's wages a lot and those prices will go up too. Are you really foolish enough to think that you can severely raise labor costs with no impact?

Jack up pharmacy assistant wages and prices of prescriptions will go up pennies

Greed is jacking up prices thousands of dollars

Maybe, but regulation is just as guilty.

 

[hadit]

Demonstrate it. I believe people will not pursue a career that requires training and technical expertise if they earn just a little more than MW. Why would they put time and effort into training courses, passing a licensing exam, and annual continuing education, for one example, to earn $11/hour when they can earn $10/hour with no experience or training doing a less demanding job?

Convince me.

Exactly

Forces employers to raise their pay scale
Won’t do so otherwise

Which in turn raises prices for medications, which hurts the poor and those on a fixed income the most. Grandma now has to choose to keep the heat on and eat or pay inflated prices for her meds because the techs at the pharmacy got big raises. Way to go.

Cut me a fucking break
It is pure greed driving up medications not minimum wage

Jack everyone's wages a lot and those prices will go up too. Are you really foolish enough to think that you can severely raise labor costs with no impact?

Jack up pharmacy assistant wages and prices of prescriptions will go up pennies

Greed is jacking up prices thousands of dollars

Pennies. It is to laugh. You're raising everyone's wages, not just techs. That means the cashiers, the stockers, and the cleaning service personnel. It all goes up.

 

[dblack]

So how's the partisan pep rally going?

 

[candycorn]

How silly. First of all, sorry you're only earning minimum wage, second of all, a small portion of wage earners are and would thus receive a $4 an hour raise. Most people are already around the $9-10 range (lower end workers we're talking about) and thus would receive at most a $2 an hour raise, and that is if we immediately raised it to the correct level, which I haven't advocated.

So people making $9 an hour would get a raise to make minimum wage


.

The ripple effect would be huge. Everyone making $11-$12/hr, for instance, would also demand a raise because all of a sudden they would only be making a little above minimum and all their skill, training and experience wouldn't get them much more than a guy of the street sweeping floors. Many pharmacy techs, for example, make $10-$12/hr, have to be trained and licensed, and we trust them with our medications.

Thats demonstrably false. People get paid just enough not quit right now and they dont demand a raise because someone else will gladly take their job.

Correct.

Many people have little to no idea how much their co-workers make. Even more don't care. If I'm happy at my job and my wage, someone else getting a raise doesn't bother me one bit.

Knowing that you could make almost as much with less effort, however, makes a difference. Many put effort into a career so they can make more. Why would they continue to do so when they know anyone walking in off the street doing any low demand job can earn almost as much?

Your saying that if you’re a type A personality who is up at the crack of dawn, going to work every day, getting ahead…doing all the right things, saying all the right things, contributing big time …. that this type of person will be so offended by someone else making almost as much that they will say, “fuck it” and start shopping for shoes at work on the free internet? I disagree.

If what you said was true, the companies that pay the least would have zero employees because the companies that pay more would be scooping them all up since, from what I’m reading about your posts, people are supposedly hyper sensitive to what is being paid to others. Again. I disagree.

 

[rightwinger]

Exactly

Forces employers to raise their pay scale
Won’t do so otherwise

Which in turn raises prices for medications, which hurts the poor and those on a fixed income the most. Grandma now has to choose to keep the heat on and eat or pay inflated prices for her meds because the techs at the pharmacy got big raises. Way to go.

Cut me a fucking break
It is pure greed driving up medications not minimum wage

Jack everyone's wages a lot and those prices will go up too. Are you really foolish enough to think that you can severely raise labor costs with no impact?

Jack up pharmacy assistant wages and prices of prescriptions will go up pennies

Greed is jacking up prices thousands of dollars

Pennies. It is to laugh. You're raising everyone's wages, not just techs. That means the cashiers, the stockers, and the cleaning service personnel. It all goes up.

Pennies

Look at the number of prescriptions they handle. A couple dollars an hour is nothing on prescriptions that they charge hundreds for

 

[hadit]

Which in turn raises prices for medications, which hurts the poor and those on a fixed income the most. Grandma now has to choose to keep the heat on and eat or pay inflated prices for her meds because the techs at the pharmacy got big raises. Way to go.

Cut me a fucking break
It is pure greed driving up medications not minimum wage

Jack everyone's wages a lot and those prices will go up too. Are you really foolish enough to think that you can severely raise labor costs with no impact?

Jack up pharmacy assistant wages and prices of prescriptions will go up pennies

Greed is jacking up prices thousands of dollars

Pennies. It is to laugh. You're raising everyone's wages, not just techs. That means the cashiers, the stockers, and the cleaning service personnel. It all goes up.

Pennies

Look at the number of prescriptions they handle. A couple dollars an hour is nothing on prescriptions that they charge hundreds for

You're not accounting for the other employees in the store, then the employees of the trucking company bringing the pills to the store, then the employees of the pharmaceutical company that makes the drugs. Need I go on? The prices for everything in the store would go up, but Grandma's on a fixed income and now has to choose whether to eat or take her meds.

Now, if you raise the MW slowly and keep it low enough, the market has time to adjust and the pain is only felt by the truly poor and elderly that have no other option.

 

[hadit]

So people making $9 an hour would get a raise to make minimum wage


.

The ripple effect would be huge. Everyone making $11-$12/hr, for instance, would also demand a raise because all of a sudden they would only be making a little above minimum and all their skill, training and experience wouldn't get them much more than a guy of the street sweeping floors. Many pharmacy techs, for example, make $10-$12/hr, have to be trained and licensed, and we trust them with our medications.

Thats demonstrably false. People get paid just enough not quit right now and they dont demand a raise because someone else will gladly take their job.

Correct.

Many people have little to no idea how much their co-workers make. Even more don't care. If I'm happy at my job and my wage, someone else getting a raise doesn't bother me one bit.

Knowing that you could make almost as much with less effort, however, makes a difference. Many put effort into a career so they can make more. Why would they continue to do so when they know anyone walking in off the street doing any low demand job can earn almost as much?

Your saying that if you’re a type A personality who is up at the crack of dawn, going to work every day, getting ahead…doing all the right things, saying all the right things, contributing big time …. that this type of person will be so offended by someone else making almost as much that they will say, “fuck it” and start shopping for shoes at work on the free internet? I disagree.

If what you said was true, the companies that pay the least would have zero employees because the companies that pay more would be scooping them all up since, from what I’m reading about your posts, people are supposedly hyper sensitive to what is being paid to others. Again. I disagree.

There's a big difference between working extra, getting extra training, and maintaining a certification to earn twice MW and doing all that to just make a dollar or two more. You don't see that?

Would you honestly do all that just to make a dollar an hour more than MW?

 

[candycorn]

The ripple effect would be huge. Everyone making $11-$12/hr, for instance, would also demand a raise because all of a sudden they would only be making a little above minimum and all their skill, training and experience wouldn't get them much more than a guy of the street sweeping floors. Many pharmacy techs, for example, make $10-$12/hr, have to be trained and licensed, and we trust them with our medications.

Thats demonstrably false. People get paid just enough not quit right now and they dont demand a raise because someone else will gladly take their job.

Correct.

Many people have little to no idea how much their co-workers make. Even more don't care. If I'm happy at my job and my wage, someone else getting a raise doesn't bother me one bit.

Knowing that you could make almost as much with less effort, however, makes a difference. Many put effort into a career so they can make more. Why would they continue to do so when they know anyone walking in off the street doing any low demand job can earn almost as much?

Your saying that if you’re a type A personality who is up at the crack of dawn, going to work every day, getting ahead…doing all the right things, saying all the right things, contributing big time …. that this type of person will be so offended by someone else making almost as much that they will say, “fuck it” and start shopping for shoes at work on the free internet? I disagree.

If what you said was true, the companies that pay the least would have zero employees because the companies that pay more would be scooping them all up since, from what I’m reading about your posts, people are supposedly hyper sensitive to what is being paid to others. Again. I disagree.

There's a big difference between working extra, getting extra training, and maintaining a certification to earn twice MW and doing all that to just make a dollar or two more. You don't see that?

Each dollar per hour is $2,000 extra dollars per year full time.

So $2.00 more per hour is $4,000 extra dollars per year.

Yes.

Would you honestly do all that just to make a dollar an hour more than MW?

Yes.

Today's situation isn't a guarantee of tomorrow's predicament. If you have the key to open the door to jobs higher up the food chain, you can walk through it. If you don't have that key...well, enjoy your stagnation.

 

[rightwinger]

Cut me a fucking break
It is pure greed driving up medications not minimum wage

Jack everyone's wages a lot and those prices will go up too. Are you really foolish enough to think that you can severely raise labor costs with no impact?

Jack up pharmacy assistant wages and prices of prescriptions will go up pennies

Greed is jacking up prices thousands of dollars

Pennies. It is to laugh. You're raising everyone's wages, not just techs. That means the cashiers, the stockers, and the cleaning service personnel. It all goes up.

Pennies

Look at the number of prescriptions they handle. A couple dollars an hour is nothing on prescriptions that they charge hundreds for

You're not accounting for the other employees in the store, then the employees of the trucking company bringing the pills to the store, then the employees of the pharmaceutical company that makes the drugs. Need I go on? The prices for everything in the store would go up, but Grandma's on a fixed income and now has to choose whether to eat or take her meds.

Now, if you raise the MW slowly and keep it low enough, the market has time to adjust and the pain is only felt by the truly poor and elderly that have no other option.

Now you are getting ridiculous

Trucking companies for pills?

You know how many pills you can get on a truck?

 

[danielpalos]

Cost to capitalists seems to be the chief complaint.

What about issuing some "junk bonds instead of junk laws", and provide corporate welfare to poor capitalists who can Only make it on Cheap labor.

We should be automating those jobs. There is no reason venture capitalists should not make money in the process.

 

[hadit]

Thats demonstrably false. People get paid just enough not quit right now and they dont demand a raise because someone else will gladly take their job.

Correct.

Many people have little to no idea how much their co-workers make. Even more don't care. If I'm happy at my job and my wage, someone else getting a raise doesn't bother me one bit.

Knowing that you could make almost as much with less effort, however, makes a difference. Many put effort into a career so they can make more. Why would they continue to do so when they know anyone walking in off the street doing any low demand job can earn almost as much?

Your saying that if you’re a type A personality who is up at the crack of dawn, going to work every day, getting ahead…doing all the right things, saying all the right things, contributing big time …. that this type of person will be so offended by someone else making almost as much that they will say, “fuck it” and start shopping for shoes at work on the free internet? I disagree.

If what you said was true, the companies that pay the least would have zero employees because the companies that pay more would be scooping them all up since, from what I’m reading about your posts, people are supposedly hyper sensitive to what is being paid to others. Again. I disagree.

There's a big difference between working extra, getting extra training, and maintaining a certification to earn twice MW and doing all that to just make a dollar or two more. You don't see that?

Each dollar per hour is $2,000 extra dollars per year full time.

So $2.00 more per hour is $4,000 extra dollars per year.

Yes.

Would you honestly do all that just to make a dollar an hour more than MW?

Yes.

Today's situation isn't a guarantee of tomorrow's predicament. If you have the key to open the door to jobs higher up the food chain, you can walk through it. If you don't have that key...well, enjoy your stagnation.

And if you're a poor, badly educated kid who's never learned or had the inclination to think beyond next week, much less next decade?

Sure, smart people will invest in their future, but not everyone has been taught how to do that or why it's important.

 

[hadit]

Jack everyone's wages a lot and those prices will go up too. Are you really foolish enough to think that you can severely raise labor costs with no impact?

Jack up pharmacy assistant wages and prices of prescriptions will go up pennies

Greed is jacking up prices thousands of dollars

Pennies. It is to laugh. You're raising everyone's wages, not just techs. That means the cashiers, the stockers, and the cleaning service personnel. It all goes up.

Pennies

Look at the number of prescriptions they handle. A couple dollars an hour is nothing on prescriptions that they charge hundreds for

You're not accounting for the other employees in the store, then the employees of the trucking company bringing the pills to the store, then the employees of the pharmaceutical company that makes the drugs. Need I go on? The prices for everything in the store would go up, but Grandma's on a fixed income and now has to choose whether to eat or take her meds.

Now, if you raise the MW slowly and keep it low enough, the market has time to adjust and the pain is only felt by the truly poor and elderly that have no other option.

Now you are getting ridiculous

Trucking companies for pills?

You know how many pills you can get on a truck?

Okay, how do you think the pills get to the store, carrier pigeon?

Remember, a retail pharmacy is just one part of the average drug store. There are a lot of other products in the shelves. But, no matter how many products get to the store, somebody is driving them, whether in a van or a truck. Man, you really don't look at the entire picture, do you?

 

[candycorn]

Correct.

Many people have little to no idea how much their co-workers make. Even more don't care. If I'm happy at my job and my wage, someone else getting a raise doesn't bother me one bit.

Knowing that you could make almost as much with less effort, however, makes a difference. Many put effort into a career so they can make more. Why would they continue to do so when they know anyone walking in off the street doing any low demand job can earn almost as much?

Your saying that if you’re a type A personality who is up at the crack of dawn, going to work every day, getting ahead…doing all the right things, saying all the right things, contributing big time …. that this type of person will be so offended by someone else making almost as much that they will say, “fuck it” and start shopping for shoes at work on the free internet? I disagree.

If what you said was true, the companies that pay the least would have zero employees because the companies that pay more would be scooping them all up since, from what I’m reading about your posts, people are supposedly hyper sensitive to what is being paid to others. Again. I disagree.

There's a big difference between working extra, getting extra training, and maintaining a certification to earn twice MW and doing all that to just make a dollar or two more. You don't see that?

Each dollar per hour is $2,000 extra dollars per year full time.

So $2.00 more per hour is $4,000 extra dollars per year.

Yes.

Would you honestly do all that just to make a dollar an hour more than MW?

Yes.

Today's situation isn't a guarantee of tomorrow's predicament. If you have the key to open the door to jobs higher up the food chain, you can walk through it. If you don't have that key...well, enjoy your stagnation.

And if you're a poor, badly educated kid who's never learned or had the inclination to think beyond next week, much less next decade?

Sure, smart people will invest in their future, but not everyone has been taught how to do that or why it's important.

Not sure what your point is. Earlier you were defending the Type A go-getter now you seem to be worried about those who are not the Type A go-getter.

To answer you question, we've always had poor, badly eduacated kids who never learned or had the inclination (or learned later in life like I did); a raise in the minimum wage would be good for them, don't you think? It would also be good for our economy since A) ours is a service/consumer economy and B) there will be more money flowing into those areas if there is more disposable income for the consumers.

 

[rightwinger]

Jack up pharmacy assistant wages and prices of prescriptions will go up pennies

Greed is jacking up prices thousands of dollars

Pennies. It is to laugh. You're raising everyone's wages, not just techs. That means the cashiers, the stockers, and the cleaning service personnel. It all goes up.

Pennies

Look at the number of prescriptions they handle. A couple dollars an hour is nothing on prescriptions that they charge hundreds for

You're not accounting for the other employees in the store, then the employees of the trucking company bringing the pills to the store, then the employees of the pharmaceutical company that makes the drugs. Need I go on? The prices for everything in the store would go up, but Grandma's on a fixed income and now has to choose whether to eat or take her meds.

Now, if you raise the MW slowly and keep it low enough, the market has time to adjust and the pain is only felt by the truly poor and elderly that have no other option.

Now you are getting ridiculous

Trucking companies for pills?

You know how many pills you can get on a truck?

Okay, how do you think the pills get to the store, carrier pigeon?

Remember, a retail pharmacy is just one part of the average drug store. There are a lot of other products in the shelves. But, no matter how many products get to the store, somebody is driving them, whether in a van or a truck. Man, you really don't look at the entire picture, do you?

That poor cashier adds nothing to the cost of those products

Back to drugs. With one pill going for up to a $100. Do you think paying the guy who stuffs the bottle $2 an hour more will cripple drug companies?