Zone1 My spirituality has undergone some significant changes..

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

The devil gets a lot of blame for plain old shitty humans doing shitty things. Some of them go to church and feel like a little lip service to the lord makes it all Ok.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

[Woodznutz]

yes and even Jesus did not say to separate the tares from the wheat--until the END when He himself does that

so why do... those outside the church(es) do that?

maybe bc they don't want the restrictions they know Christ would impose on them? And yet, His restrictions give us TRUE freedom... and are for our own good.. and if all we achieve in this life is to make it to Heaven.. THAT is all that matters..

(esp since Jesus said few make it there)

"Many are called but few are chosen" refers to the church age (the "firstfruits"). In the white throne judgment period those not called or chosen in the church age will have their opportunity for salvation.

"For God is not willing that any should perish..."

 

[rightnow909]

If it ain’t in the Bible, it ain’t nothing to do with God.

Gee, I don't find your name/handle in the Bible.. so you "aint nothing to do w/ God"

eh?

 

[rightnow909]

If it ain’t in the Bible it’s manmade.

OK, you are not mentioned in the Bible so you are man made

"Not logical, Captain"

 

[rightnow909]

And BTW - the Maccabees have never been accepted by Jews as authentic Scripture.

well, we can't accept something the Jews who killed Jesus don't accept, can we?

and besides, this is not true. One sect of the Jewish people did accept Maccabees

 

[rightnow909]

And BTW - the Maccabees have never been accepted by Jews as authentic Scripture.

interesting how you do not address what I said in my post but change the topic

I know Church history. Most people at this forum and eveyrwhere else do not/

 

[Cougarbear]

I was raised Catholic.. although... what does that mean, really? All we did was go to Mass on Sunday... We forgot about Jesus the rest of the week... sigh (I found Him in a big way when young, though..)

Well, you can't help who your family is.. But somewhere along the line, my life fell apart, as it always does when you drift away from Jesus. One thing leads to another and the old domino effect takes over and .. you can come to a very bad place.

But God appears to have intervened in my miserable life.. While some things actually got more miserable after I discovered the rosary... spiritually, I began to get better.. Then I started going not just to Sunday Mass but daily Mass... and my spirit seemed to be off and running.. so to say..

Then I discovered some really rotten stuff in the Church.. and .. sorry to disappoint certain anti-Catholics, but it had nothing to do with pedophilia... amazing how that is not the problem for most Cahtolics. But that is not to say my own problems were not serious (though obviously there is hardly anything more serious than molesting a child..).

Well, long-story-short, I then began studying the Church after Vatican II... not impressed to say the least.. and in fact... suffice it to say that many undesirables were "consulted" at the Council, even Communists and other nefarious types.. whereas the OLD Church (the true Church, Society of St Pius X, the Church up until 1958) had always condemned communism. Some have called JP II a commie-lover or something to that effect.. and I believe it. Again, when he lived in Poland, most Catholic clergy were being persecuted, not able to come and go as they wanted, but somehow, JP II (not then pope) was allowed to do so.. and I could go on and on but this is about me more than JP II.

So then I saw things in the TRUE Church that bothered me also (long story). But suffice it to say that..

I can understand people not wanting to go to ANY Church... you see things there... un-Christian stuff.


+

Well, you know that I believe the apostasy took place after the apostles John and Paul were gone from teaching the people. That, the Church had apostatized and no longer held any authority and power. With you, that came in 1958. So, today, it's still an apostate Church and therefore not the true Church.

 

[rightnow909]

The devil gets a lot of blame for plain old shitty humans doing shitty things. Some of them go to church and feel like a little lip service to the lord makes it all Ok.

that is true (the last part of your sentence).. however, Satan gets blame bc he really is, to some extent, to blame... which is not to negate your point about "sh---ty" people bc it is and always has been TRUE that Satan can do NOTHING without human cooperation

 

[Leo123]

I was raised Catholic.. although... what does that mean, really? All we did was go to Mass on Sunday... We forgot about Jesus the rest of the week... sigh (I found Him in a big way when young, though..)

Well, you can't help who your family is.. But somewhere along the line, my life fell apart, as it always does when you drift away from Jesus. One thing leads to another and the old domino effect takes over and .. you can come to a very bad place.

But God appears to have intervened in my miserable life.. While some things actually got more miserable after I discovered the rosary... spiritually, I began to get better.. Then I started going not just to Sunday Mass but daily Mass... and my spirit seemed to be off and running.. so to say..

Then I discovered some really rotten stuff in the Church.. and .. sorry to disappoint certain anti-Catholics, but it had nothing to do with pedophilia... amazing how that is not the problem for most Cahtolics. But that is not to say my own problems were not serious (though obviously there is hardly anything more serious than molesting a child..).

Well, long-story-short, I then began studying the Church after Vatican II... not impressed to say the least.. and in fact... suffice it to say that many undesirables were "consulted" at the Council, even Communists and other nefarious types.. whereas the OLD Church (the true Church, Society of St Pius X, the Church up until 1958) had always condemned communism. Some have called JP II a commie-lover or something to that effect.. and I believe it. Again, when he lived in Poland, most Catholic clergy were being persecuted, not able to come and go as they wanted, but somehow, JP II (not then pope) was allowed to do so.. and I could go on and on but this is about me more than JP II.

So then I saw things in the TRUE Church that bothered me also (long story). But suffice it to say that..

I can understand people not wanting to go to ANY Church... you see things there... un-Christian stuff.


+

Religion is an aspiration created by humans for the inherent imperfect human condition. Being religious does not bestow Godly character, it represents an example of aspirations to what a group of people say is the best way to live based on a supposed perfect supreme being. Whether or not that being exists is beside the point, IMO.

 

[rightnow909]

Well, you know that I believe the apostasy took place after the apostles John and Paul were gone from teaching the people. That, the Church had apostatized and no longer held any authority and power. With you, that came in 1958. So, today, it's still an apostate Church and therefore not the true Church.

so Jesus failed

He didn't keep His promise about how the very gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church? Mt 1618

there hasn't, according to your religion, been 2000+ years of Christianity?

Please just answer those Qs and do not change the topic

 

[rightnow909]

Religion is an aspiration for imperfect humans.

yes, and there are so many of them, aren't there... ? sigh

There's something in the Bible about .. .well, there is a list of sins and one of them.. I think it is a list of the sins that get people into Hell.. One of them is

causing others to sin

I don't know about you, but I see around me a lot of people... on their way to Hell

 

[rightnow909]

"Many are called but few are chosen" refers to the church age (the "firstfruits"). In the white throne judgment period those not called or chosen in the church age will have their opportunity for salvation.

"For God is not willing that any should perish..."

Is there a particular group you refer to... those "not called or chosen in the church age"?

 

[rightnow909]

My life became way better after I dumped religion and superstition. Trying to square what Jesus said with the hateful things Christians do without guilt was a source of constant irritation.

this could partly be due to the fact that you.. distanced yourself from certain people in your personal life who were not healthy...

 

[Leo123]

yes, and there are so many of them, aren't there... ? sigh

There's something in the Bible about .. .well, there is a list of sins and one of them.. I think it is a list of the sins that get people into Hell.. One of them is

causing others to sin

I don't know about you, but I see around me a lot of people... on their way to Hell

To be fair, I added to my post after you posted that but, basically I agree.

 

[Leo123]

My life became way better after I dumped religion and superstition. Trying to square what Jesus said with the hateful things Christians do without guilt was a source of constant irritation.

Jesus never said that any humans were perfect. IMO, Religion does not guarantee those who practice it will always behave. You have conflated what some humans do with what religion expects of humans.

 

[rightnow909]

To be fair, I added to my post after you posted that but, basically I agree.

in the updated version you say

Whether or not that being [God?] exists is beside the point, IMO.

so you are agnostic?

I don't see how anyone can be agnostic much less atheistic after seeing... well, let's just cut to the chase...

Montana ... meaning the most mountainous part... Highway 90... etc...

OK, but even if you haven't been there, everyone can look around and see the beauty of nature... the ocean, the trees, the grass, the flowers.. the beauty and logic and order of it all

Then there is this: We (Earth) are just the right distance from the sun. Just a little closer and Earth would burn up.. just a little further away and we would freeze

I mean, if you can't see God in that... well, maybe it's time for you to get away from it all....

 

[Cougarbear]

so Jesus failed

He didn't keep His promise about how the very gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church? Mt 1618

there hasn't, according to your religion, been 2000+ years of Christianity?

Please just answer those Qs and do not change the topic

No, the people failed. They began to worship the bishops as gods. They followed them as rulers instead of servants. The clerics became apostates and the people had nowhere else to go to. And, he did keep his promise as he allowed his words to be kept through the apostasy and then restored His Church as was prophesied in Daniel that after being restored it would not be given to another. But, this would take place in the last days, not 2,000 years ago.
Keep reading on in Matthew 16. In verse 28, "Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." So, the kingdom was taken from the earth so that he would be seen coming for a 2nd time with his kingdom back to the earth. That way, the very gates of Hell would not prevail against his kingdom (Church). Oh ya!!! It's right there! An apostasy like Paul said would happened, happened! By the way, who has not tasted death yet? And, where is or are these persons?

 

[Leo123]

in the updated version you say

Whether or not that being [God?] exists is beside the point, IMO.

so you are agnostic?

I don't see how anyone can be agnostic much less atheistic after seeing... well, let's just cut to the chase...

Montana ... meaning the most mountainous part... Highway 90... etc...

OK, but even if you haven't been there, everyone can look around and see the beauty of nature... the ocean, the trees, the grass, the flowers.. the beauty and logic and order of it all

Then there is this: We (Earth) are just the right distance from the sun. Just a little closer and Earth would burn up.. just a little further away and we would freeze

I mean, if you can't see God in that... well, maybe it's time for you to get away from it all....

Atheists demand to see God. Whether or not one can see or touch God is not the point. The belief in the existence of a supreme being, IMO, is better than no God at all. I am agnostic to the point that I do not believe a lot of religious dogma. Belief is very powerful in human beings. Believing in God is better than no belief in God, IMO and no, I don't believe there is no God in that sense.

 

[rightnow909]

No, the people failed. They began to worship the bishops as gods. They followed them as rulers instead of servants.

I got this far.

This is insane. You're saying that all people failed and so the Church failed , thereby saying that Jesus failed, which is to say the Church according to you was human ONLY.

You cannot get around this.

Either Jesus kept His promise or He didnt. Jesus knows humans better than anyone. He knew the kind of Church He would have to "build" (mt 1618) so that it would never be destroyed by the nefarious humans. HE KNEW THINGS... imagine that!

And so He built His Church

and you... you come along 2000+ years later and say "Jesus's Church was destroyed by humans"... not the gates of Hell, mind u, but mere humans...

please

 

[rightnow909]

Atheists demand to see God. Whether or not one can see or touch God is not the point. The belief in the existence of a supreme being, IMO, is better than no God at all. I am agnostic to the point that I do not believe a lot of religious dogma. Belief is very powerful in human beings. Believing in God is better than no belief in God, IMO and no, I don't believe there is no God in that sense.

I haven't found one dogma of the Catholic Church that i have a problem with. I notice antiCatholics don't talk about, 4 example, the dogma of Human life is sacred from cradle to grave

something few other churches mention...

Then there are other dogmas... just don't have a problem with them. In fact, I heard something about Vat II people didn't want the Council to be dogmatic. They knew they wouldn't be able to get their damn changes in (liberalism) if it were a dogmatic Council

good thing is, though, since it is not a dogmatic Council, we can and should reject the monstrosity