Next SCOTUS case may give ALL Americans a constitutional right to conceal carry guns in public

[JakeStarkey]

2aguy, no ....no....you don't get to say this and think we have to accept it...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Stand Your Ground was not an issue in the Zimmerman Trial...

Absolutely. He couldn't retreat anyway since the guy jumped him, pinned him to the ground, and was beating the hell out of him.

 

[yiostheoy]

Stand Your Ground was not an issue in the Zimmerman Trial...

Absolutely. He couldn't retreat anyway since the guy jumped him, pinned him to the ground, and was beating the hell out of him.

Zimmerman/Martin was not a stand your ground issue, correct.

It was about a Negro kid visiting his uncle, walking to the store and back with snacks, peeping in windows as he walked by them, getting confronted by a fat clown for peeping, getting into a fight with and tackling the clown, and getting shot by the clown.

If somebody is on top of you and pounding your face then that justifies shooting them, even if they are a teenaged kid. Especially if like Zimmerman you do not know how to fight back.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Stand Your Ground was not an issue in the Zimmerman Trial...

Absolutely. He couldn't retreat anyway since the guy jumped him, pinned him to the ground, and was beating the hell out of him.

Zimmerman/Martin was not a stand your ground issue, correct.

It was about a Negro kid visiting his uncle, walking to the store and back with snacks, peeping in windows as he walked by them, getting confronted by a fat clown for peeping, getting into a fight with and tackling the clown, and getting shot by the clown.

If somebody is on top of you and pounding your face then that justifies shooting them, even if they are a teenaged kid. Especially if like Zimmerman you do not know how to fight back.

Way not to have the story straight.

First off, Trayvon was not visiting his uncle. He was staying with his father and girlfriend who had an apartment there. The reason he was with his father is because his mother kicked him out for getting suspended from school AGAIN.

He went to the store and as you said, came back and was looking into windows. Zimmerman seen Martin and called the police. Martin seen Zimmerman talking on the phone in his truck, something spooked him, and he ran off. Zimmerman ran after him so he could give the police Martin's location when they came.

The dispatcher could tell Zimmerman was running, and told him it wasn't necessary to follow Martin, so Zimmerman stopped. He finished his call with the police, and on his way back to his truck, Martin (who was hiding between the houses) attacked Zimmerman.

They jury found that Zimmerman broke no laws by shooting Martin; not because of stand your ground, but because Zimmerman was sustaining serious bodily harm and had no idea how far Martin would go.

 

[JBond]

Off we go to the gun range and after that, the driving range. My son came home for the weekend.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Have a good day.

 

[jasonnfree]

Study: Road rage incidents involving guns are increasing

Posting meaningless crap is a poor debate tactic.

Rate Of U.S. Gun Violence Has Fallen Since 1993, Study Says

But the rate of violence in other countries has also fallen. It's based on there being better entertainment at home, so less people are likely to be hanging out on the streets getting up to no good.

The Captain's Journal » Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits

The numbers don’t lie: banning guns means more crime

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

UK police behind effort to ban knives to end ‘knife violence’

This 3 part series is from last year...it documents the increasing gun crime in Australia...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

But....military weapons?

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

View attachment 121826

Those words gun buyback cracks me up. Like the guns belonged to the government originally and now they want them back.

 

[yiostheoy]

Off we go to the gun range and after that, the driving range. My son came home for the weekend.

I need to hit the gun range too.

Monthly practice is my minimum.

But this weekend it is Easter so I will wait until next weekend.

 

[yiostheoy]

Stand Your Ground was not an issue in the Zimmerman Trial...

Absolutely. He couldn't retreat anyway since the guy jumped him, pinned him to the ground, and was beating the hell out of him.

Zimmerman/Martin was not a stand your ground issue, correct.

It was about a Negro kid visiting his uncle, walking to the store and back with snacks, peeping in windows as he walked by them, getting confronted by a fat clown for peeping, getting into a fight with and tackling the clown, and getting shot by the clown.

If somebody is on top of you and pounding your face then that justifies shooting them, even if they are a teenaged kid. Especially if like Zimmerman you do not know how to fight back.

Way not to have the story straight.

First off, Trayvon was not visiting his uncle. He was staying with his father and girlfriend who had an apartment there. The reason he was with his father is because his mother kicked him out for getting suspended from school AGAIN.

He went to the store and as you said, came back and was looking into windows. Zimmerman seen Martin and called the police. Martin seen Zimmerman talking on the phone in his truck, something spooked him, and he ran off. Zimmerman ran after him so he could give the police Martin's location when they came.

The dispatcher could tell Zimmerman was running, and told him it wasn't necessary to follow Martin, so Zimmerman stopped. He finished his call with the police, and on his way back to his truck, Martin (who was hiding between the houses) attacked Zimmerman.

They jury found that Zimmerman broke no laws by shooting Martin; not because of stand your ground, but because Zimmerman was sustaining serious bodily harm and had no idea how far Martin would go.

No problem with your narrative.

I am surprised that Z went to trial.

That must have been expensive.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Stand Your Ground was not an issue in the Zimmerman Trial...

Absolutely. He couldn't retreat anyway since the guy jumped him, pinned him to the ground, and was beating the hell out of him.

Zimmerman/Martin was not a stand your ground issue, correct.

It was about a Negro kid visiting his uncle, walking to the store and back with snacks, peeping in windows as he walked by them, getting confronted by a fat clown for peeping, getting into a fight with and tackling the clown, and getting shot by the clown.

If somebody is on top of you and pounding your face then that justifies shooting them, even if they are a teenaged kid. Especially if like Zimmerman you do not know how to fight back.

Way not to have the story straight.

First off, Trayvon was not visiting his uncle. He was staying with his father and girlfriend who had an apartment there. The reason he was with his father is because his mother kicked him out for getting suspended from school AGAIN.

He went to the store and as you said, came back and was looking into windows. Zimmerman seen Martin and called the police. Martin seen Zimmerman talking on the phone in his truck, something spooked him, and he ran off. Zimmerman ran after him so he could give the police Martin's location when they came.

The dispatcher could tell Zimmerman was running, and told him it wasn't necessary to follow Martin, so Zimmerman stopped. He finished his call with the police, and on his way back to his truck, Martin (who was hiding between the houses) attacked Zimmerman.

They jury found that Zimmerman broke no laws by shooting Martin; not because of stand your ground, but because Zimmerman was sustaining serious bodily harm and had no idea how far Martin would go.

No problem with your narrative.

I am surprised that Z went to trial.

That must have been expensive.

You can thank the MSM for that.

When the police got there and investigated, they let Zimmerman go because their investigation found no wrong doing on his part. Everything Zimmerman told them they found to be true. Once the media spun it, the prosecutor decided to charge him anyway just to keep the public happy.

 

[Skull Pilot]

you would still have to pass a check to buy a gun

Background checks are very popular and will never go away.

Almost 99.99999999 of the public likes them whether they are pro or anti gun.

They don't really accomplish much but they are popular and they look good on paper.

I really don't have a problem with them but if you pass a check you should be able to carry your weapon concealed or open with no additional permits

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Posting meaningless crap is a poor debate tactic.

Rate Of U.S. Gun Violence Has Fallen Since 1993, Study Says

But the rate of violence in other countries has also fallen. It's based on there being better entertainment at home, so less people are likely to be hanging out on the streets getting up to no good.

The Captain's Journal » Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits

The numbers don’t lie: banning guns means more crime

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

UK police behind effort to ban knives to end ‘knife violence’

This 3 part series is from last year...it documents the increasing gun crime in Australia...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

But....military weapons?

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

View attachment 121826

Those words gun buyback cracks me up. Like the guns belonged to the government originally and now they want them back.

Or that people had the choice of whether to sell them their gun or not.

But right after they banned the guns, look at the chart when robberies took a huge hike. The criminals didn't sell their guns to the government. They kept their guns and the citizens became easy targets.

Even though armed robberies declined through the years, after almost two decades, the level only returned back to where it was before the ban took place.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well it's not surprising that you reject my interpretation. Everyone does. Why? Well because they have an agenda.

The point is, ALL THE EVIDENCE points to what I have said. I had a debate with someone on here, and they presented nothing, but managed to just ignore everything I presented, which included the Supreme Court both past and present, the Founding Fathers including George Washington.

Also, you don't understand my interpretation, so again, hardly surprising you're rejecting it.

There is an individual right to own a weapon. This is NOT reliant on Militia service. The reason it is protected in the 2A is so that the militia has a ready supply of weapons in a time of need. Rather than relying on govt arms, it relies on those in the general populace.

There is an individual right to be in the militia. This is NOT reliant on militia service. You don't need to be in the militia to then, in a time of need, to then join up the militia.

There is other evidence of this. In the early 20th Century there Dick Act was passed, which made the National Guard. Now, if everyone has the right to be in the militia, then the National Guard would be as ineffective as the militia was at dealing with more modern threats and wars. So they made the "unorganized militia" so that all males aged 17-45 would automatically be in the "militia", but technically rather than in reality, so then these people could demand to be in the militia, which would in effect be the National Guard. There is not other reason to make an "unorganized militia" which has, in over 100 years, never done a single thing, never met, never operated, never called up, never done one thing. It exists for one reason, and that, as I explained, is because the "right to bear arms" is the right to be in the militia, or as the Founding Fathers said "render military service" or "militia duty".

Militia service is a DUTY not a RIGHT.

Keeping arms in your home is a RIGHT.

Well in a manner yes. The Founding Fathers looked at it that a person could be compelled to be in the militia, but also that a person could demand to be in the militia, ie, have the right.

It works both ways. But the 2A prevents the US federal govt from stopping people from being in the militia, because they said there was a right to bear arms.

SENTIMENTS ON A PEACE ESTABLISHMENT, 1783
George Washington

"every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America... from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls,"


"by making it universally reputable to bear Arms and disgraceful to decline having a share in the performance of Military duties; in fine, by keeping up in Peace "a well regulated, and disciplined Militia," we shall take the fairest and best method to preserve, for a long time to come, the happiness, dignity and Independence of our Country.“

George Washington also used the term "bear arms" to mean militia duty, and yes, they did use militia duty as a duty.

However, how do you protect the militia from attack from the Federal government? You protect the two things a militia needs. Arms and personnel.

Sounds like a duty to me.

Good for you.

The point is, all over the place there is this "right to bear arms", and it comes out as "render military service" or "militia duty".

The Bill of Rights protected specific things, and the 2A clearly protected the militia, seeing as the first half of the Amendment talks about... about... the militia, oddly enough.

So, you have this Amendment... It starts with "the militia is really damn important and protects the people from the horrible government", then you have the second part which says "And to protect the militia we're going to stop the govt from being able to take guns away from individuals so they can't fuck the militia over by taking away all their arms"

Now, this is where it gets interesting. Your version of the Amendment would go like this "and we're going to protect the right of people to walk around with guns in their pockets for no fucking reason other than we're bored today".

Or my version which is "and guns don't kill people, people do, so we're going to stop the nasty old government from preventing individuals from being in the militia, so the people can use those guns we can take away, and then the militia is safe".

Have a guess which one makes sense to you.

You have an antecedent problem -- we don't know who your "you" is.

Various people have interpreted the 2nd Amendment differently.

Of note, Scalia interpreted it as a right to keep a gun/guns in your home and bring them to militia duty. He says the two rights are separate.

Also of note Roberts, Thomas, Alito, and the ever mercurial Kennedy agreed with him.

Of further note Ginsberg, Souter, Sotomayor, and the former justice Stevens interpreted it as only related to militia duty which erroneously according to them does not exist anymore.

Some homespun readers interpret "keep and bear" also meaning to carry in public. Scalia did not agree. He deferred to the States under the 10th Amendment the power to regulate public possession outside of the home.

Question is will Neil Gorsuch see it any differently?

Kagan is herself untested on 2A issues. I would be shocked if she turns out to be pro 2A however. I would even kiss her feet and fat azz if she is.

Seems you're the one who has that problem.

Sure, various people who interpreted the 2A in different ways, and many of them will do so without many of the facts.

"keep and bear" can't mean carry around in public. There are so many reasons why it can't, and not a single reason why it can. But then again, people have their agenda and will push it no matter how little evidence there is.

Like I said, the last guy I spoke to I presented a lot of evidence, he presented nothing and then said "I don't agree with you". His opinion wasn't based on evidence. It was based on a desire to have it how he wanted it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Study: Road rage incidents involving guns are increasing

Posting meaningless crap is a poor debate tactic.

Rate Of U.S. Gun Violence Has Fallen Since 1993, Study Says

But the rate of violence in other countries has also fallen. It's based on there being better entertainment at home, so less people are likely to be hanging out on the streets getting up to no good.

The Captain's Journal » Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits

The numbers don’t lie: banning guns means more crime

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

UK police behind effort to ban knives to end ‘knife violence’

This 3 part series is from last year...it documents the increasing gun crime in Australia...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

But....military weapons?

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

View attachment 121826

Posting charts without opinion is a waste of time.

 

[frigidweirdo]

But the rate of violence in other countries has also fallen. It's based on there being better entertainment at home, so less people are likely to be hanging out on the streets getting up to no good.

The Captain's Journal » Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits

The numbers don’t lie: banning guns means more crime

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

UK police behind effort to ban knives to end ‘knife violence’

This 3 part series is from last year...it documents the increasing gun crime in Australia...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

But....military weapons?

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

View attachment 121826

Those words gun buyback cracks me up. Like the guns belonged to the government originally and now they want them back.

Or that people had the choice of whether to sell them their gun or not.

But right after they banned the guns, look at the chart when robberies took a huge hike. The criminals didn't sell their guns to the government. They kept their guns and the citizens became easy targets.

Even though armed robberies declined through the years, after almost two decades, the level only returned back to where it was before the ban took place.

Or lower, as in the chart you presented shows that they are LOWER, murders are LOWER, robberies are LOWER.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Captain's Journal » Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits

The numbers don’t lie: banning guns means more crime

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

UK police behind effort to ban knives to end ‘knife violence’

This 3 part series is from last year...it documents the increasing gun crime in Australia...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

But....military weapons?

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

View attachment 121826

Those words gun buyback cracks me up. Like the guns belonged to the government originally and now they want them back.

Or that people had the choice of whether to sell them their gun or not.

But right after they banned the guns, look at the chart when robberies took a huge hike. The criminals didn't sell their guns to the government. They kept their guns and the citizens became easy targets.

Even though armed robberies declined through the years, after almost two decades, the level only returned back to where it was before the ban took place.

Or lower, as in the chart you presented shows that they are LOWER, murders are LOWER, robberies are LOWER.

No, the chart shows the same level. Need me to post it again? And the chart I posted was armed robberies, but if you push it, I'll dig up more for robberies of all kinds and murders.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Posting meaningless crap is a poor debate tactic.

Rate Of U.S. Gun Violence Has Fallen Since 1993, Study Says

But the rate of violence in other countries has also fallen. It's based on there being better entertainment at home, so less people are likely to be hanging out on the streets getting up to no good.

The Captain's Journal » Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits

The numbers don’t lie: banning guns means more crime

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

UK police behind effort to ban knives to end ‘knife violence’

This 3 part series is from last year...it documents the increasing gun crime in Australia...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

But....military weapons?

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

View attachment 121826

Posting charts without opinion is a waste of time.

The chart speaks for itself. Sorry about your hearing disabilities.

 

[Rustic]

Never once has a firearm made anybody kill somebody else… Fact

 

[frigidweirdo]

This 3 part series is from last year...it documents the increasing gun crime in Australia...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

But....military weapons?

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

View attachment 121826

Those words gun buyback cracks me up. Like the guns belonged to the government originally and now they want them back.

Or that people had the choice of whether to sell them their gun or not.

But right after they banned the guns, look at the chart when robberies took a huge hike. The criminals didn't sell their guns to the government. They kept their guns and the citizens became easy targets.

Even though armed robberies declined through the years, after almost two decades, the level only returned back to where it was before the ban took place.

Or lower, as in the chart you presented shows that they are LOWER, murders are LOWER, robberies are LOWER.

No, the chart shows the same level. Need me to post it again? And the chart I posted was armed robberies, but if you push it, I'll dig up more for robberies of all kinds and murders.

Ah, yes, because you posted a chart that stopped 7 years ago.

4510.0 - Recorded Crime - Victims, Australia, 2015

"The number of Robbery victims has decreased by 39% since the beginning of the time series in 2010."

And so, in 20 years, the number of robberies has dropped to BELOW what it was, the number of murders has dropped BELOW what it was. But as long as you keep using convenient statistics, you can show whatever you like, right?

 

[frigidweirdo]

But the rate of violence in other countries has also fallen. It's based on there being better entertainment at home, so less people are likely to be hanging out on the streets getting up to no good.

The Captain's Journal » Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits

The numbers don’t lie: banning guns means more crime

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

UK police behind effort to ban knives to end ‘knife violence’

This 3 part series is from last year...it documents the increasing gun crime in Australia...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

But....military weapons?

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

View attachment 121826

Posting charts without opinion is a waste of time.

The chart speaks for itself. Sorry about your hearing disabilities.

That's complete crap. No chart speaks for itself. Besides, I'm not talking to a chart, you're the one supposedly making your argument, not the chart. One source is never enough to prove anything, and it needs knowledge to read the chart properly anyway.