Next SCOTUS case may give ALL Americans a constitutional right to conceal carry guns in public

[frigidweirdo]

The UK aka England is a sh!t hole.

Same as France.

Same as Germany.

Have you ever been? No, probably not. If you want to see shit holes, I can recommend a few, but those you've stated are not.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What are your arguments here? That people with guns aren't more dangerous than people without guns? That a problem with a gun isn't more of a problem than a problem without a gun? Oh, please. You come out with the "it's a people problem" but that doesn't say half the story, does it? Clearly people without guns are less of a problem.

So you make some sort of unproven assumption that an object is what makes people violent? I would disagree with that. People are violent--not guns. Guns are merely a tool no different than an axe a baseball bat, a knife, or machete.

As for the US being more of a violent place.... well... is it? Or is it just that people with guns seem to make it more of a problem?

Parts of the US are violent places, yes. But do you really believe that taking guns away would make those places less violent?

This is the same kind of mentality that went around my state when we adopted CCW laws. None of the predictions came true. We are not like the wild, wild west, we do not have showdowns in the street, people are not using guns to settle road rage problems. The guns didn't cause people to do any of those things.

Murders are 4 times higher. But other crimes aren't as high as this.... is it violence, or just it's easier to kill people? I mean, many on the right also believe that locking people up reduces crime, but it doesn't. The US is one of the few, if only, first world country that uses executions, and has a higher murder rate, when executions are supposed to deter people from murder, right? And places like Louisiana which lock a lot of people up, have higher murder and crime rates than those who don't.

Capital punishment is not a deterrent because of all the red tape. In many places people are not actually executed until 10 to 18 years after sentencing. Of course it's not a deterrent. Are you really concerned about what might happen to you 18 years from today? Well most people aren't either, and that includes criminals.

The death penalty could be a deterrent if we did it the right way. But most Americans don't have the stomach for that. Plus we have liberals in this country who would start yet another march or riot. Liberal judges don't help any either.

Yeah, your logic at the end is the same problem that the whole of the US seems to suffer from. The "we can't solve this problem, so fuck it, let's just make it worse". Er... what? Surely the country with the highest GDP, the best space program and all of that can't be so fucking stupid, can it? Seems so.

Well we can't keep drugs out of the country, can we? We can't stop people coming here illegally, can we?

But you think that somehow if we were able to remove every gun from every citizen, they would no longer have a gun? Well you'd be correct, the law biding citizens wouldn't have a gun, but criminals will always find a way to get guns just like they do in NYC, California and Chicago.

No, I did not make an assumption, or a claim, or anything else for that matter that the gun makes them violent. I said it makes them more DANGEROUS.

However my point was that "non-violent" people can suddenly become violent. Not everyone, but it happens.

No, again, I did not say that guns made people less violent. It might make them less dangerous, and therefore make areas less violent, and make it easier to solve some of the problems.

So what is a deterrent? Seems prison isn't either... seeing as Louisiana has the highest prison population and the highest murder rate.

Do I think they'd get rid of guns from every person? No. But then UK isn't gun free, and yet still has a murder rate 1/4 of the US's murder rate.

And the UK is not as multicultural as the US.

View attachment 121919

I think we could get much closer to their murder rate without blacks. So is it still the guns, or is it the people?

Whites have more access to guns because per capita, we have many less felons. Per capita, we have much more money to afford guns and ammo too.

I avoided this conversation because I didn't want to hear the racist crap from the left, but it's pretty telling why our murder rates are different than the UK, and it's not the guns, it's the people. And in this particular conversation, it needs to be said:

View attachment 121923

The U.K. is becomming more multi cultural and the minorities are the ones driving the drug gangs and gun crime....and the social welfare system has reached the point where you have teenagers stabbing each other to death in greater numbers...

That's what's happening.

One of my former tenants went there after she retired. We stayed in touch for a while. One day I got a frightening email from her how she was beaten up and robbed. Her passport was taken and she didn't know what to do. The poor thing couldn't defend herself from a fly. She sent me the email by accident; probably too shaken up to know who she was sending the email to. It seemed that she thought she was sending it to her daughter.

She lived here for over 25 years, and never had a problem with anybody--even after the neighborhood started to go downhill. But then again, over here, you don't know who is carrying a firearm with them.

So, a person happens to get unlucky in the UK, so that means the UK is a dangerous place? Oh, come off it. More people get murdered in the US, 4 times more, every year. This anecdote doesn't mean anything.

I've been to many dangerous countries, I've been to some of the most dangerous cities in the world, and never had a problem. But I have had a problem in a place considered safe. Why? Well, got unlucky, that's all.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But, there is no basis for your claim that a variety of ethnic groups leads to higher murder rates.

However, yes, without black people maybe the murder rate would be lower. However to try separate one American from another because of their skin color is a massive problem in the US. You can't get away from the fact that blacks were in slavery, then segregated, and still in modern day America they're often looked down on, not given the opportunities of others. You have partisan politics making sure nothing effective happens. This is, again, the main problem in the US, the inability of government to do anything meaningful, to change the country to make it work. The fact that many right wingers on here will cry foul any time anyone comes up with an idea which tries to change anything. In schools it's "indoctrination", outside of schools it's "social engineering". Without a country directing itself to a better place, you aren't going anywhere. You cling to your guns for safety because you create a more dangerous environment for yourself in order to have a reason to cling to your guns, and that is often based around the paranoia that the govt is out to get you, and you create a bad govt in order to have this paranoid.

You make self fulfilling prophecies in order to claim to be right about something. You make the facts fit your ideology, and if they don't you ignore them with a passion. It's ridiculous.

Facts are facts, and I presented them in charts.

Your claim is that guns are the problem. My claim is that people are the problem. As my charts clearly show, it's not the guns at all since whites have just as many (of not more) guns than blacks. Blacks make up 13% of our population, yet as statistics show, you are six times more likely to be murdered by a black than a white.

But to try and support your claim, you compare statistics of basically white countries to ours. Myopically, you blame the guns.

Here's the hook: You can confiscate every gun you can in the US and send them to the UK, and you most likely will not see any difference in gun or violent crime. Here, you would most likely see an increase in gun violence and crime. Why? Because only the criminals and police would have the guns. Secondly, it's the people and not the guns that kill.

As to your other point, what "opportunities" do whites have that blacks don't? And if you can give me an example, why wasn't the situation taken to court?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So you make some sort of unproven assumption that an object is what makes people violent? I would disagree with that. People are violent--not guns. Guns are merely a tool no different than an axe a baseball bat, a knife, or machete.

Parts of the US are violent places, yes. But do you really believe that taking guns away would make those places less violent?

This is the same kind of mentality that went around my state when we adopted CCW laws. None of the predictions came true. We are not like the wild, wild west, we do not have showdowns in the street, people are not using guns to settle road rage problems. The guns didn't cause people to do any of those things.

Capital punishment is not a deterrent because of all the red tape. In many places people are not actually executed until 10 to 18 years after sentencing. Of course it's not a deterrent. Are you really concerned about what might happen to you 18 years from today? Well most people aren't either, and that includes criminals.

The death penalty could be a deterrent if we did it the right way. But most Americans don't have the stomach for that. Plus we have liberals in this country who would start yet another march or riot. Liberal judges don't help any either.



Well we can't keep drugs out of the country, can we? We can't stop people coming here illegally, can we?

But you think that somehow if we were able to remove every gun from every citizen, they would no longer have a gun? Well you'd be correct, the law biding citizens wouldn't have a gun, but criminals will always find a way to get guns just like they do in NYC, California and Chicago.

No, I did not make an assumption, or a claim, or anything else for that matter that the gun makes them violent. I said it makes them more DANGEROUS.

However my point was that "non-violent" people can suddenly become violent. Not everyone, but it happens.

No, again, I did not say that guns made people less violent. It might make them less dangerous, and therefore make areas less violent, and make it easier to solve some of the problems.

So what is a deterrent? Seems prison isn't either... seeing as Louisiana has the highest prison population and the highest murder rate.

Do I think they'd get rid of guns from every person? No. But then UK isn't gun free, and yet still has a murder rate 1/4 of the US's murder rate.

And the UK is not as multicultural as the US.

View attachment 121919

I think we could get much closer to their murder rate without blacks. So is it still the guns, or is it the people?

Whites have more access to guns because per capita, we have many less felons. Per capita, we have much more money to afford guns and ammo too.

I avoided this conversation because I didn't want to hear the racist crap from the left, but it's pretty telling why our murder rates are different than the UK, and it's not the guns, it's the people. And in this particular conversation, it needs to be said:

View attachment 121923

The U.K. is becomming more multi cultural and the minorities are the ones driving the drug gangs and gun crime....and the social welfare system has reached the point where you have teenagers stabbing each other to death in greater numbers...

That's what's happening.

One of my former tenants went there after she retired. We stayed in touch for a while. One day I got a frightening email from her how she was beaten up and robbed. Her passport was taken and she didn't know what to do. The poor thing couldn't defend herself from a fly. She sent me the email by accident; probably too shaken up to know who she was sending the email to. It seemed that she thought she was sending it to her daughter.

She lived here for over 25 years, and never had a problem with anybody--even after the neighborhood started to go downhill. But then again, over here, you don't know who is carrying a firearm with them.

So, a person happens to get unlucky in the UK, so that means the UK is a dangerous place? Oh, come off it. More people get murdered in the US, 4 times more, every year. This anecdote doesn't mean anything.

I've been to many dangerous countries, I've been to some of the most dangerous cities in the world, and never had a problem. But I have had a problem in a place considered safe. Why? Well, got unlucky, that's all.

 

[JBond]

Has anyone presented a reasonable way to fully insure the safety of all law abiding Americans at all times? How do the gun grabbers propose to accomplish this?

 

[yiostheoy]

Has anyone presented a reasonable way to fully insure the safety of all law abiding Americans at all times? How do the gun grabbers propose to accomplish this?

Grammar moment:

INSURE = insurance.

ENSURE = assurance.

 

[yiostheoy]

Has anyone presented a reasonable way to fully insure the safety of all law abiding Americans at all times? How do the gun grabbers propose to accomplish this?

The gun grabbers live in a fantasy world where their Faerie Godmother will protect them once all guns are "banned".

Diane Feinstein is the queen of the faeries.

 

[yiostheoy]

So you make some sort of unproven assumption that an object is what makes people violent? I would disagree with that. People are violent--not guns. Guns are merely a tool no different than an axe a baseball bat, a knife, or machete.

Parts of the US are violent places, yes. But do you really believe that taking guns away would make those places less violent?

This is the same kind of mentality that went around my state when we adopted CCW laws. None of the predictions came true. We are not like the wild, wild west, we do not have showdowns in the street, people are not using guns to settle road rage problems. The guns didn't cause people to do any of those things.

Capital punishment is not a deterrent because of all the red tape. In many places people are not actually executed until 10 to 18 years after sentencing. Of course it's not a deterrent. Are you really concerned about what might happen to you 18 years from today? Well most people aren't either, and that includes criminals.

The death penalty could be a deterrent if we did it the right way. But most Americans don't have the stomach for that. Plus we have liberals in this country who would start yet another march or riot. Liberal judges don't help any either.



Well we can't keep drugs out of the country, can we? We can't stop people coming here illegally, can we?

But you think that somehow if we were able to remove every gun from every citizen, they would no longer have a gun? Well you'd be correct, the law biding citizens wouldn't have a gun, but criminals will always find a way to get guns just like they do in NYC, California and Chicago.

No, I did not make an assumption, or a claim, or anything else for that matter that the gun makes them violent. I said it makes them more DANGEROUS.

However my point was that "non-violent" people can suddenly become violent. Not everyone, but it happens.

No, again, I did not say that guns made people less violent. It might make them less dangerous, and therefore make areas less violent, and make it easier to solve some of the problems.

So what is a deterrent? Seems prison isn't either... seeing as Louisiana has the highest prison population and the highest murder rate.

Do I think they'd get rid of guns from every person? No. But then UK isn't gun free, and yet still has a murder rate 1/4 of the US's murder rate.

And the UK is not as multicultural as the US.

View attachment 121919

I think we could get much closer to their murder rate without blacks. So is it still the guns, or is it the people?

Whites have more access to guns because per capita, we have many less felons. Per capita, we have much more money to afford guns and ammo too.

I avoided this conversation because I didn't want to hear the racist crap from the left, but it's pretty telling why our murder rates are different than the UK, and it's not the guns, it's the people. And in this particular conversation, it needs to be said:

View attachment 121923

The U.K. is becomming more multi cultural and the minorities are the ones driving the drug gangs and gun crime....and the social welfare system has reached the point where you have teenagers stabbing each other to death in greater numbers...

That's what's happening.

One of my former tenants went there after she retired. We stayed in touch for a while. One day I got a frightening email from her how she was beaten up and robbed. Her passport was taken and she didn't know what to do. The poor thing couldn't defend herself from a fly. She sent me the email by accident; probably too shaken up to know who she was sending the email to. It seemed that she thought she was sending it to her daughter.

She lived here for over 25 years, and never had a problem with anybody--even after the neighborhood started to go downhill. But then again, over here, you don't know who is carrying a firearm with them.

So, a person happens to get unlucky in the UK, so that means the UK is a dangerous place? Oh, come off it. More people get murdered in the US, 4 times more, every year. This anecdote doesn't mean anything.

I've been to many dangerous countries, I've been to some of the most dangerous cities in the world, and never had a problem. But I have had a problem in a place considered safe. Why? Well, got unlucky, that's all.

Europe is a knife culture where guns are hard to get, although not impossible to get, and where moosleem terrorists get guns easily.

 

[JBond]

Has anyone presented a reasonable way to fully insure the safety of all law abiding Americans at all times? How do the gun grabbers propose to accomplish this?

Grammar moment:

INSURE = insurance.

ENSURE = assurance.

Sorry. I was typing from my phone. Typically, I catch those errors.

 

[yiostheoy]

The UK aka England is a sh!t hole.

Same as France.

Same as Germany.

Have you ever been? No, probably not. If you want to see shit holes, I can recommend a few, but those you've stated are not.

I have been to London a dozen times, Paris half a dozen, also Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Wurzburg, Stuttgart, Geneva, and Neuchatel.

 

[JBond]

Has anyone presented a reasonable way to fully insure the safety of all law abiding Americans at all times? How do the gun grabbers propose to accomplish this?

The gun grabbers live in a fantasy world where their Faerie Godmother will protect them once all guns are "banned".

Diane Feinstein is the queen of the faeries.

I also find it interesting when war profiteering politicians become gun grabbers. How does that hag keep getting elected?

 

[yiostheoy]

Has anyone presented a reasonable way to fully insure the safety of all law abiding Americans at all times? How do the gun grabbers propose to accomplish this?

The gun grabbers live in a fantasy world where their Faerie Godmother will protect them once all guns are "banned".

Diane Feinstein is the queen of the faeries.

I also find it interesting when war profiteering politicians become gun grabbers. How does that hag keep getting elected?

Well Feinstein and Pelosi keep getting re-elected because their voters are just as wacko as they are.

 

[frigidweirdo]

But, there is no basis for your claim that a variety of ethnic groups leads to higher murder rates.

However, yes, without black people maybe the murder rate would be lower. However to try separate one American from another because of their skin color is a massive problem in the US. You can't get away from the fact that blacks were in slavery, then segregated, and still in modern day America they're often looked down on, not given the opportunities of others. You have partisan politics making sure nothing effective happens. This is, again, the main problem in the US, the inability of government to do anything meaningful, to change the country to make it work. The fact that many right wingers on here will cry foul any time anyone comes up with an idea which tries to change anything. In schools it's "indoctrination", outside of schools it's "social engineering". Without a country directing itself to a better place, you aren't going anywhere. You cling to your guns for safety because you create a more dangerous environment for yourself in order to have a reason to cling to your guns, and that is often based around the paranoia that the govt is out to get you, and you create a bad govt in order to have this paranoid.

You make self fulfilling prophecies in order to claim to be right about something. You make the facts fit your ideology, and if they don't you ignore them with a passion. It's ridiculous.

Facts are facts, and I presented them in charts.

Your claim is that guns are the problem. My claim is that people are the problem. As my charts clearly show, it's not the guns at all since whites have just as many (of not more) guns than blacks. Blacks make up 13% of our population, yet as statistics show, you are six times more likely to be murdered by a black than a white.

But to try and support your claim, you compare statistics of basically white countries to ours. Myopically, you blame the guns.

Here's the hook: You can confiscate every gun you can in the US and send them to the UK, and you most likely will not see any difference in gun or violent crime. Here, you would most likely see an increase in gun violence and crime. Why? Because only the criminals and police would have the guns. Secondly, it's the people and not the guns that kill.

As to your other point, what "opportunities" do whites have that blacks don't? And if you can give me an example, why wasn't the situation taken to court?

Facts are facts, and facts can be manipulated to present an argument which is false.

So what do the facts say? The facts say that the more people eat beef in the US, the more people get hit by lightning. I mean, it's clear that this argument is backed up by the facts, right?

Okay, we know this is rubbish. And I'm telling you that you're presenting facts that don't add up if you look at the whole argument, rather than trying to stick to things you've decided to edit.

No, my claim is that guns are part of the problem. My claim is that an individual who is a problem, can be far more of a problem with a gun than without a gun. My claim is that the number of murders in the US is 4 times higher than other first world countries, and 3/4 of those are with guns, and that certain people with guns are more likely to kill if they have guns. But then there is far more to it that this, and we've spoken of this before. I don't think getting rid of guns will suddenly make the US a Utopian wonderland. I do know that the biggest problems in the US aren't the guns, but the politicians, the voters, the way people vote, the attitude of people who seem to want everything to be bad.

Your argument about "basically white countries", all the countries are use are first world countries, countries with a healthy GDP. If you've traveled around the world, you'll see that richer countries are going to be safer. This is that more money = safer. Some poor countries are quite safe.

Some dangerous countries have very safe parts and very dangerous parts.

But the simple fact is that to compare an impoverished country with the US is not so easy. As I said about the color of skin, or the diversity of the population, there is no correlation. I just showed you this isn't the case, and you've come back at me as if it is.

What opportunities do white people have that black people don't have?

Well, 25% of black people are in poverty, children are growing up in poverty, they're growing up in single parent families, they're struggling right from day one. And on top of this you have education which is biased towards the rich, and people like you will make excuses for why this is so.

Yes, 7% of white people are also stuck in this predicament. This isn't just a race issue. Race has played a big part, black people are more likely to be in poverty for the simple fact that US history is riddled with white people fucking black people over, denying them the chance to be on equal terms. And this isn't just 200 years ago. Black people will still find it harder to get promoted in certain places and under certain bosses, this is a reality.

But again, the biggest problem in the US is the "Can't do" attitude.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The UK aka England is a sh!t hole.

Same as France.

Same as Germany.

Have you ever been? No, probably not. If you want to see shit holes, I can recommend a few, but those you've stated are not.

I have been to London a dozen times, Paris half a dozen, also Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Wurzburg, Stuttgart, Geneva, and Neuchatel.

Oh, wow. So, you've been to London, so you know England.... er... what the fuck? London isn't the whole of England, it's one small part. Paris isn't all of France, Frankfurt, Wurzburg and Stuttgart aren't the whole of Germany.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, I did not make an assumption, or a claim, or anything else for that matter that the gun makes them violent. I said it makes them more DANGEROUS.

However my point was that "non-violent" people can suddenly become violent. Not everyone, but it happens.

No, again, I did not say that guns made people less violent. It might make them less dangerous, and therefore make areas less violent, and make it easier to solve some of the problems.

So what is a deterrent? Seems prison isn't either... seeing as Louisiana has the highest prison population and the highest murder rate.

Do I think they'd get rid of guns from every person? No. But then UK isn't gun free, and yet still has a murder rate 1/4 of the US's murder rate.

And the UK is not as multicultural as the US.

View attachment 121919

I think we could get much closer to their murder rate without blacks. So is it still the guns, or is it the people?

Whites have more access to guns because per capita, we have many less felons. Per capita, we have much more money to afford guns and ammo too.

I avoided this conversation because I didn't want to hear the racist crap from the left, but it's pretty telling why our murder rates are different than the UK, and it's not the guns, it's the people. And in this particular conversation, it needs to be said:

View attachment 121923

The U.K. is becomming more multi cultural and the minorities are the ones driving the drug gangs and gun crime....and the social welfare system has reached the point where you have teenagers stabbing each other to death in greater numbers...

That's what's happening.

One of my former tenants went there after she retired. We stayed in touch for a while. One day I got a frightening email from her how she was beaten up and robbed. Her passport was taken and she didn't know what to do. The poor thing couldn't defend herself from a fly. She sent me the email by accident; probably too shaken up to know who she was sending the email to. It seemed that she thought she was sending it to her daughter.

She lived here for over 25 years, and never had a problem with anybody--even after the neighborhood started to go downhill. But then again, over here, you don't know who is carrying a firearm with them.

So, a person happens to get unlucky in the UK, so that means the UK is a dangerous place? Oh, come off it. More people get murdered in the US, 4 times more, every year. This anecdote doesn't mean anything.

I've been to many dangerous countries, I've been to some of the most dangerous cities in the world, and never had a problem. But I have had a problem in a place considered safe. Why? Well, got unlucky, that's all.

Well, I see you don't have an argument.....

 

[frigidweirdo]

Europe is a knife culture where guns are hard to get, although not impossible to get, and where moosleem terrorists get guns easily.

It's not even a knife culture. Muslim terrorists get guns easily, hence why they've reverted to using vehicles to kill..... huh?

 

[JBond]

But, there is no basis for your claim that a variety of ethnic groups leads to higher murder rates.

However, yes, without black people maybe the murder rate would be lower. However to try separate one American from another because of their skin color is a massive problem in the US. You can't get away from the fact that blacks were in slavery, then segregated, and still in modern day America they're often looked down on, not given the opportunities of others. You have partisan politics making sure nothing effective happens. This is, again, the main problem in the US, the inability of government to do anything meaningful, to change the country to make it work. The fact that many right wingers on here will cry foul any time anyone comes up with an idea which tries to change anything. In schools it's "indoctrination", outside of schools it's "social engineering". Without a country directing itself to a better place, you aren't going anywhere. You cling to your guns for safety because you create a more dangerous environment for yourself in order to have a reason to cling to your guns, and that is often based around the paranoia that the govt is out to get you, and you create a bad govt in order to have this paranoid.

You make self fulfilling prophecies in order to claim to be right about something. You make the facts fit your ideology, and if they don't you ignore them with a passion. It's ridiculous.

Facts are facts, and I presented them in charts.

Your claim is that guns are the problem. My claim is that people are the problem. As my charts clearly show, it's not the guns at all since whites have just as many (of not more) guns than blacks. Blacks make up 13% of our population, yet as statistics show, you are six times more likely to be murdered by a black than a white.

But to try and support your claim, you compare statistics of basically white countries to ours. Myopically, you blame the guns.

Here's the hook: You can confiscate every gun you can in the US and send them to the UK, and you most likely will not see any difference in gun or violent crime. Here, you would most likely see an increase in gun violence and crime. Why? Because only the criminals and police would have the guns. Secondly, it's the people and not the guns that kill.

As to your other point, what "opportunities" do whites have that blacks don't? And if you can give me an example, why wasn't the situation taken to court?

Facts are facts, and facts can be manipulated to present an argument which is false.

So what do the facts say? The facts say that the more people eat beef in the US, the more people get hit by lightning. I mean, it's clear that this argument is backed up by the facts, right?

Okay, we know this is rubbish. And I'm telling you that you're presenting facts that don't add up if you look at the whole argument, rather than trying to stick to things you've decided to edit.

No, my claim is that guns are part of the problem. My claim is that an individual who is a problem, can be far more of a problem with a gun than without a gun. My claim is that the number of murders in the US is 4 times higher than other first world countries, and 3/4 of those are with guns, and that certain people with guns are more likely to kill if they have guns. But then there is far more to it that this, and we've spoken of this before. I don't think getting rid of guns will suddenly make the US a Utopian wonderland. I do know that the biggest problems in the US aren't the guns, but the politicians, the voters, the way people vote, the attitude of people who seem to want everything to be bad.

Your argument about "basically white countries", all the countries are use are first world countries, countries with a healthy GDP. If you've traveled around the world, you'll see that richer countries are going to be safer. This is that more money = safer. Some poor countries are quite safe.

Some dangerous countries have very safe parts and very dangerous parts.

But the simple fact is that to compare an impoverished country with the US is not so easy. As I said about the color of skin, or the diversity of the population, there is no correlation. I just showed you this isn't the case, and you've come back at me as if it is.

What opportunities do white people have that black people don't have?

Well, 25% of black people are in poverty, children are growing up in poverty, they're growing up in single parent families, they're struggling right from day one. And on top of this you have education which is biased towards the rich, and people like you will make excuses for why this is so.

Yes, 7% of white people are also stuck in this predicament. This isn't just a race issue. Race has played a big part, black people are more likely to be in poverty for the simple fact that US history is riddled with white people fucking black people over, denying them the chance to be on equal terms. And this isn't just 200 years ago. Black people will still find it harder to get promoted in certain places and under certain bosses, this is a reality.

But again, the biggest problem in the US is the "Can't do" attitude.

 

[2aguy]

What are your arguments here? That people with guns aren't more dangerous than people without guns? That a problem with a gun isn't more of a problem than a problem without a gun? Oh, please. You come out with the "it's a people problem" but that doesn't say half the story, does it? Clearly people without guns are less of a problem.

So you make some sort of unproven assumption that an object is what makes people violent? I would disagree with that. People are violent--not guns. Guns are merely a tool no different than an axe a baseball bat, a knife, or machete.

As for the US being more of a violent place.... well... is it? Or is it just that people with guns seem to make it more of a problem?

Parts of the US are violent places, yes. But do you really believe that taking guns away would make those places less violent?

This is the same kind of mentality that went around my state when we adopted CCW laws. None of the predictions came true. We are not like the wild, wild west, we do not have showdowns in the street, people are not using guns to settle road rage problems. The guns didn't cause people to do any of those things.

Murders are 4 times higher. But other crimes aren't as high as this.... is it violence, or just it's easier to kill people? I mean, many on the right also believe that locking people up reduces crime, but it doesn't. The US is one of the few, if only, first world country that uses executions, and has a higher murder rate, when executions are supposed to deter people from murder, right? And places like Louisiana which lock a lot of people up, have higher murder and crime rates than those who don't.

Capital punishment is not a deterrent because of all the red tape. In many places people are not actually executed until 10 to 18 years after sentencing. Of course it's not a deterrent. Are you really concerned about what might happen to you 18 years from today? Well most people aren't either, and that includes criminals.

The death penalty could be a deterrent if we did it the right way. But most Americans don't have the stomach for that. Plus we have liberals in this country who would start yet another march or riot. Liberal judges don't help any either.

Yeah, your logic at the end is the same problem that the whole of the US seems to suffer from. The "we can't solve this problem, so fuck it, let's just make it worse". Er... what? Surely the country with the highest GDP, the best space program and all of that can't be so fucking stupid, can it? Seems so.

Well we can't keep drugs out of the country, can we? We can't stop people coming here illegally, can we?

But you think that somehow if we were able to remove every gun from every citizen, they would no longer have a gun? Well you'd be correct, the law biding citizens wouldn't have a gun, but criminals will always find a way to get guns just like they do in NYC, California and Chicago.

No, I did not make an assumption, or a claim, or anything else for that matter that the gun makes them violent. I said it makes them more DANGEROUS.

However my point was that "non-violent" people can suddenly become violent. Not everyone, but it happens.

No, again, I did not say that guns made people less violent. It might make them less dangerous, and therefore make areas less violent, and make it easier to solve some of the problems.

So what is a deterrent? Seems prison isn't either... seeing as Louisiana has the highest prison population and the highest murder rate.

Do I think they'd get rid of guns from every person? No. But then UK isn't gun free, and yet still has a murder rate 1/4 of the US's murder rate.

And the UK is not as multicultural as the US.

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I think we could get much closer to their murder rate without blacks. So is it still the guns, or is it the people?

Whites have more access to guns because per capita, we have many less felons. Per capita, we have much more money to afford guns and ammo too.

I avoided this conversation because I didn't want to hear the racist crap from the left, but it's pretty telling why our murder rates are different than the UK, and it's not the guns, it's the people. And in this particular conversation, it needs to be said:

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So ethnicity causes violence? Someone becomes violent because they see a person of another color? What rubbish.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

Honduras has the highest murder rate in the world.

Demographics of Honduras - Wikipedia

"Mestizos (European mixed with Amerindian) make up more than 90% of the population of Honduras. Amerindians are 6% of the population and AfroHondurans comprise 3%"

So, they have 90% of the population identifying as the same, and yet they have a massive murder problem.

Second is El Salvador, which has an 86% Mestizo population.

Third is Venezuela which is a little different, 51% Mestizo, 43% white.

But, there is no basis for your claim that a variety of ethnic groups leads to higher murder rates.

However, yes, without black people maybe the murder rate would be lower. However to try separate one American from another because of their skin color is a massive problem in the US. You can't get away from the fact that blacks were in slavery, then segregated, and still in modern day America they're often looked down on, not given the opportunities of others. You have partisan politics making sure nothing effective happens. This is, again, the main problem in the US, the inability of government to do anything meaningful, to change the country to make it work. The fact that many right wingers on here will cry foul any time anyone comes up with an idea which tries to change anything. In schools it's "indoctrination", outside of schools it's "social engineering". Without a country directing itself to a better place, you aren't going anywhere. You cling to your guns for safety because you create a more dangerous environment for yourself in order to have a reason to cling to your guns, and that is often based around the paranoia that the govt is out to get you, and you create a bad govt in order to have this paranoid.

You make self fulfilling prophecies in order to claim to be right about something. You make the facts fit your ideology, and if they don't you ignore them with a passion. It's ridiculous.

No...it is culture and values. The minority communities in the U.S. have been under the thumb of left wing social policy for decades....which has increased single teenage mother hood, where single teenage girls have been raising young males...and failing......for decades.....and now this is finally coming to a head in Europe....and on top of that their new immigrants are from countries where violent murder is the norm.....as is bruatlity....they do not embrace British or European, civilian non violence...that is the issue, not the race of the minority group.

Culture, not race, is the problem...and since the black culture in the U.S. embraces gangster culture, the young men in these communities, raised by teenage girls, are lacking in impulse control..which would be taught by adult male role models...known as fathers...

 

[2aguy]

Europe is a knife culture where guns are hard to get, although not impossible to get, and where moosleem terrorists get guns easily.

It's not even a knife culture. Muslim terrorists get guns easily, hence why they've reverted to using vehicles to kill..... huh?

They saw that one truck killed 89 people and wounded over 400.....a greater casualty rate than the worst mass shooting.....so we are likely to see a shift to vehicles over guns...because on another front...they don't have to worry about getting caught with the gun before the attack.....a Truck can be rented the day they plan on running people over....

 

[2aguy]

So you make some sort of unproven assumption that an object is what makes people violent? I would disagree with that. People are violent--not guns. Guns are merely a tool no different than an axe a baseball bat, a knife, or machete.

Parts of the US are violent places, yes. But do you really believe that taking guns away would make those places less violent?

This is the same kind of mentality that went around my state when we adopted CCW laws. None of the predictions came true. We are not like the wild, wild west, we do not have showdowns in the street, people are not using guns to settle road rage problems. The guns didn't cause people to do any of those things.

Capital punishment is not a deterrent because of all the red tape. In many places people are not actually executed until 10 to 18 years after sentencing. Of course it's not a deterrent. Are you really concerned about what might happen to you 18 years from today? Well most people aren't either, and that includes criminals.

The death penalty could be a deterrent if we did it the right way. But most Americans don't have the stomach for that. Plus we have liberals in this country who would start yet another march or riot. Liberal judges don't help any either.



Well we can't keep drugs out of the country, can we? We can't stop people coming here illegally, can we?

But you think that somehow if we were able to remove every gun from every citizen, they would no longer have a gun? Well you'd be correct, the law biding citizens wouldn't have a gun, but criminals will always find a way to get guns just like they do in NYC, California and Chicago.

No, I did not make an assumption, or a claim, or anything else for that matter that the gun makes them violent. I said it makes them more DANGEROUS.

However my point was that "non-violent" people can suddenly become violent. Not everyone, but it happens.

No, again, I did not say that guns made people less violent. It might make them less dangerous, and therefore make areas less violent, and make it easier to solve some of the problems.

So what is a deterrent? Seems prison isn't either... seeing as Louisiana has the highest prison population and the highest murder rate.

Do I think they'd get rid of guns from every person? No. But then UK isn't gun free, and yet still has a murder rate 1/4 of the US's murder rate.

And the UK is not as multicultural as the US.

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I think we could get much closer to their murder rate without blacks. So is it still the guns, or is it the people?

Whites have more access to guns because per capita, we have many less felons. Per capita, we have much more money to afford guns and ammo too.

I avoided this conversation because I didn't want to hear the racist crap from the left, but it's pretty telling why our murder rates are different than the UK, and it's not the guns, it's the people. And in this particular conversation, it needs to be said:

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The U.K. is becomming more multi cultural and the minorities are the ones driving the drug gangs and gun crime....and the social welfare system has reached the point where you have teenagers stabbing each other to death in greater numbers...

That's what's happening.

One of my former tenants went there after she retired. We stayed in touch for a while. One day I got a frightening email from her how she was beaten up and robbed. Her passport was taken and she didn't know what to do. The poor thing couldn't defend herself from a fly. She sent me the email by accident; probably too shaken up to know who she was sending the email to. It seemed that she thought she was sending it to her daughter.

She lived here for over 25 years, and never had a problem with anybody--even after the neighborhood started to go downhill. But then again, over here, you don't know who is carrying a firearm with them.

So, a person happens to get unlucky in the UK, so that means the UK is a dangerous place? Oh, come off it. More people get murdered in the US, 4 times more, every year. This anecdote doesn't mean anything.

I've been to many dangerous countries, I've been to some of the most dangerous cities in the world, and never had a problem. But I have had a problem in a place considered safe. Why? Well, got unlucky, that's all.

Again....gun crime in London went up 42% last year...10% the year before that.......there is a problem there and their gun laws aren't stopping it. The British value system and culture used to keep their murder rate low...lots of violent crime, but very little trigger pulling that led to death...Now? The young males there are turning into true sociopaths......decades of single teenage girls raisning young males....