No Longer David:*The State of Israel As Goliath

[Hollie]

"...There is no such thing as human shields for Israel. The presence of civilians does not shield from attack. Israel will bomb an apartment building, killing civilians from multiple families, just to get one 'terrorist.'"

In the context of Hamas et al doing all that can be done, to protect the lives of their own innocent civilian population, the technical definition of Human Shields doesn't matter a damn, Tinny.

What does matter is the cynical, cold and calculating Hamas penchant for positioning war-assets embedded within and amongst its civilian populations, in an attempt to discourage IDF strikes against such war-assets.

The reason WHY such Hamas actions matter is because the Israelis inflict civilian casualties while trying to get AT those war-assets.

The solution is simple.

Don't want the civilian casualties in such high numbers?

Move your war-assets.

Until then, the higher-than-necessary civilian casualty rates are on your heads, not those of the IDF.

Move your war-assets.

Israel's definition of human shields is a "terrorist" living at home with the wife and kids.

Actually, as an apologist for Islamic terrorists, the above is only your self-serving, terrorist-hugging position.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"...Israel's definition of human shields is a 'terrorist' living at home with the wife and kids."

Any opportunity to kill a dangerous scumbag is an opportunity to kill a dangerous scumbag.

Such folk are foolish to put their own people at-risk by living with them in time of war.

But that's only a small part of the usual collection of reasons for such operations, which usually go for rocket-launchers and militia bases and headquarters and cross-border tunnels and weapons caches, etc.

And that does NOTHING to address that FAR larger problem of Hamas intentionally positioning its war-assets amongst its own civilian populations so as to discourage IDF counterstrikes.

Move your war assets.

Moot point. Civilians do not discourage Israeli strikes. Israel does not care how many civilians it kills.

 

[Kondor3]

Moot point. Civilians do not discourage Israeli strikes. Israel does not care how many civilians it kills.

Anything to avoid having to move your war-assets away from civilian population centers, using your own people as de facto (if not de jure) Human Shields, to discourage IDF strikes against those assets.

You'll never know for sure until you try, and the lives of your women and children are worth the attempt.

Move your war assets.

If, after you've moved them, the IDF continues to strike at civilians rather than those war-assets, then you'll have proven yourself correct, after all.

Until you are willing to try, however, you will continue to suffer higher-than-necessary civilian casualties, and sensible, logical people will continue to ignore your casualties as truly attributable to your own intransigence.

No more excuses. No more legal tap-dancing and shell-games. No more delays. Time to TRY to preserve the lives of your own civilians, or lose all credibility and claim to sympathy in the matter.

Move your war-assets.

 

[irosie91]

"...Israel's definition of human shields is a 'terrorist' living at home with the wife and kids."

Any opportunity to kill a dangerous scumbag is an opportunity to kill a dangerous scumbag.

Such folk are foolish to put their own people at-risk by living with them in time of war.

But that's only a small part of the usual collection of reasons for such operations, which usually go for rocket-launchers and militia bases and headquarters and cross-border tunnels and weapons caches, etc.

And that does NOTHING to address that FAR larger problem of Hamas intentionally positioning its war-assets amongst its own civilian populations so as to discourage IDF counterstrikes.

Move your war assets.

Moot point. Civilians do not discourage Israeli strikes. Israel does not care how many civilians it kills.

It is the responsibility of the IDF to strike MILITARY TARGETS-----that includes
any place HARBORING active terrorists, harboring vehicles or armaments used in
terrorism and any site from which terrorist actions are launched. It is the
responsibility of the Gazans to render all MILITARY TARGETS free of
civilians Civilians who die in MILITARY targets are victims of the people
who rendered those sites LEGAL MILITARY TARGETS

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Post 303

Gazans have nowhere to move weapons, they already live in an Israeli maintained concentration camp!

And they have a right to armed resistance!

They have a right under intl law to have weapons and a right to use them to resist Occupation!

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Moot point. Civilians do not discourage Israeli strikes. Israel does not care how many civilians it kills.

Anything to avoid having to move your war-assets away from civilian population centers, using your own people as de facto (if not de jure) Human Shields, to discourage IDF strikes against those assets.

You'll never know for sure until you try, and the lives of your women and children are worth the attempt.

Move your war assets.

If, after you've moved them, the IDF continues to strike at civilians rather than those war-assets, then you'll have proven yourself correct, after all.

Until you are willing to try, however, you will continue to suffer higher-than-necessary civilian casualties, and sensible, logical people will continue to ignore your casualties.

No more excuses. No more legal tap-dancing and shell-games. No more delays. Time to TRY to preserve the lives of your own civilians, or lose all credibility and claim to sympathy in the matter.

Move your war-assets.

ISRAEL did every bit of the killing of civilians in Gaza!

Israel needs to stop her killing!

 

[Hollie]

"...Israel's definition of human shields is a 'terrorist' living at home with the wife and kids."

Any opportunity to kill a dangerous scumbag is an opportunity to kill a dangerous scumbag.

Such folk are foolish to put their own people at-risk by living with them in time of war.

But that's only a small part of the usual collection of reasons for such operations, which usually go for rocket-launchers and militia bases and headquarters and cross-border tunnels and weapons caches, etc.

And that does NOTHING to address that FAR larger problem of Hamas intentionally positioning its war-assets amongst its own civilian populations so as to discourage IDF counterstrikes.

Move your war assets.

Moot point. Civilians do not discourage Israeli strikes. Israel does not care how many civilians it kills.

False claim.

Unfortunately for you, your nonsense claims are easily refuted. False claims by sleazy haters spiral and crash into the ground when you are asked to combat the irrefutable argument that Israel has demonstrated restraint.

You have no counter to the fact that Israel has spent billions upon billions of dollars to employ LESS cost effective weapons for the sole purpose of reducing civilian casualties. You say nothing of the recognized capability Israeli strategic forces to reduce the entirety of the Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza to a burning pile of ash within one hour with almost no reduction of its national power, and the restraint from using such power demonstrated by their leaders.

You cannot reconcile the fact that Israel has repeated shown a willingness to concede land for a cessation of hostilities

You cannot reconcile the fact that you argue Israel wishes to murder and kill and intimidate “Palestinian” arabs with the truth that you cannot conjure up a reason for such action, much less an explanation for precision munitions development, no use of particularly effective cluster, mine and incendiary munitions, and extremely tight Rules of Engagement for Israeli forces in battle zones.

And when someone brings up these irreconcilable faults in your arguments, you point to a link about something entirely unrelated, try to make a statement accusing Israelis broadly of being “Zionist Occupiers" or simply slither away and let the thread sink.

Here’s your chance to reconcile these issues now, Or, slither away.

Answer now, how you can say that Israelis WISH to have civilian casualties when they have spent many times the GDP of the Gaza Islamic terrorist enclave on weapons that limit such casualties.

Answer now, how can you say that Israelis wish for war when it is a proven fact that Israel has conceded land for attempts at peace.

Or, if you feel too threatened, just make a statement about the Jews controlling the media or go back to your Cliff's notes to the Islamist Manifesto.



You Effing moron!

 

[Hollie]

Nowhere to move them, they already live in an Israeli maintained concentration camp!

And they have a right to armed resistance!

And they have to right to be Hellfire Missile fodder for acts of war against a sovereign nation.

How generous of you to offer-up the lives of "Pal-Arab" squatters because it placates your rabid Joooo hatreds.

 

[Kondor3]

Nowhere to move them, they already live in an Israeli maintained concentration camp! And they have a right to armed resistance!

Incorrect. There are PLENTY of places to move them outside the realm of heavily populated areas.

You just won't, because you think it gives you an additional edge, because IDF folk will hesitate to fire upon war-assets that are positioned nearby heavy concentrations of civilians.

Well, you're right... the IDF will hesitate... but they eventually suck it up and fire on such assets anyway... as a tactic in pursuit of the protection of their own people.

Whom they apparently value more highly than Hamas values its own civilians, given their penchant for positioning war-assets embedded amongst its own heavily-concentrated civilian population centers...

 

[Hollie]

Moot point. Civilians do not discourage Israeli strikes. Israel does not care how many civilians it kills.

Anything to avoid having to move your war-assets away from civilian population centers, using your own people as de facto (if not de jure) Human Shields, to discourage IDF strikes against those assets.

You'll never know for sure until you try, and the lives of your women and children are worth the attempt.

Move your war assets.

If, after you've moved them, the IDF continues to strike at civilians rather than those war-assets, then you'll have proven yourself correct, after all.

Until you are willing to try, however, you will continue to suffer higher-than-necessary civilian casualties, and sensible, logical people will continue to ignore your casualties.

No more excuses. No more legal tap-dancing and shell-games. No more delays. Time to TRY to preserve the lives of your own civilians, or lose all credibility and claim to sympathy in the matter.

Move your war-assets.

ISRAEL did every bit of the killing of civilians in Gaza!

Israel needs to stop her killing!

Islamic terrorists did every part of the acts of war against a sovereign nation.

Islamic terrorists get no pass.

Instead of flailing your pom poms urging others to kill, pick up a weapon and start your own personal jihad.

 

[Kondor3]

"...ISRAEL did every bit of the killing of civilians in Gaza!..."

Yep. Damned efficiently, too.

None of which would have been necessary had Hamas placed their war-assets in locations apart from heavy concentrations of their civilian population.

So, in a very real sense, those poor civilians have Hamas to thank for their deaths, even if it was the IDF that pulled the trigger.

Suicide by Police, metaphorically speaking.

"...Israel needs to stop her killing!"

The very minute that Hamas renounces its hostility.

 

[P F Tinmore]

During Cast Lead Israel killed about 1400 Palestinians. Israel destroyed thousands of homes, factories, farms, and schools.

Yet only a few hundred militants were killed. The numbers don't add up.

 

[Kondor3]

During Cast Lead Israel killed about 1400 Palestinians. Israel destroyed thousands of homes, factories, farms, and schools. Yet only a few hundred militants were killed. The numbers don't add up.

If there are 10 militants holed-up next to 100 civilians, and the IDF targets those 10, many of the 100 are also going to be killed or hurt.

The 10 need to stand-clear of the 100, and hole-up someplace else.

There is no particular correlation between those numbers in the first place.

 

[Hollie]

During Cast Lead Israel killed about 1400 Palestinians. Israel destroyed thousands of homes, factories, farms, and schools.

Yet only a few hundred militants were killed. The numbers don't add up.

Pointless and irrelevant. The response to an act of war doesn't include making sure it's a "fair fight".

What doesn't add up is your appalling ignorance.

The pre-cursor to Cast Lead was a barrage of rockets lobbed at Israeli military and civilian areas.

There's a downside to acts of war perpetrated by Islamic terrorists: dead Islamic terrorists.

I agree that it was a shame only a few hundred Islamic terrorists were killed.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Nowhere to move them, they already live in an Israeli maintained concentration camp! And they have a right to armed resistance!

Incorrect. There are PLENTY of places to move them outside the realm of heavily populated areas.

You just won't, because you think it gives you an additional edge, because IDF folk will hesitate to fire upon war-assets that are positioned nearby heavy concentrations of civilians.

Well, you're right... the IDF will hesitate... but they eventually suck it up and fire on such assets anyway... as a tactic in pursuit of the protection of their own people.

Whom they apparently value more highly than Hamas values its own civilians, given their penchant for positioning war-assets embedded amongst its own heavily-concentrated civilian population centers...

The Gaza Strip is the most densely populated place on Planet Earth!

And not one single house Israel targeted had weapons in it and civilians targeted and killed were unarmed.

And Israel used civilians as human shields and Hamas did not!

It is all there in that Amnesty Report!

I posted the video in this thread, commanders ordered cleansing, they identified the houses and ordered soldiers to shell them. That is a war crime, targeting civilians and civilian objects!

 

[Kondor3]

Nowhere to move them, they already live in an Israeli maintained concentration camp! And they have a right to armed resistance!

Incorrect. There are PLENTY of places to move them outside the realm of heavily populated areas.

You just won't, because you think it gives you an additional edge, because IDF folk will hesitate to fire upon war-assets that are positioned nearby heavy concentrations of civilians.

Well, you're right... the IDF will hesitate... but they eventually suck it up and fire on such assets anyway... as a tactic in pursuit of the protection of their own people.

Whom they apparently value more highly than Hamas values its own civilians, given their penchant for positioning war-assets embedded amongst its own heavily-concentrated civilian population centers...

The Gaza Strip is the most densely populated place on Planet Earth!

And not one single house Israel targeted had weapons in it and civilians targeted and killed were unarmed.

It is all there in that Amnesty Report!

None of that serves to negate the contention that there are plenty of places in which to position war-assets away from heavy civilian population concentrations...

None of that serves to negate IDF claims that they were fired upon from those houses and schools and hospitals and offices, by mobile militia units who fired-and-fled, and who were long-gone by the time Amnesty showed-up, weeks and months later...

Move your war-assets.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

"...ISRAEL did every bit of the killing of civilians in Gaza!..."

Yep. Damned efficiently, too.

None of which would have been necessary had Hamas placed their war-assets in locations apart from heavy concentrations of their civilian population.

So, in a very real sense, those poor civilians have Hamas to thank for their deaths, even if it was the IDF that pulled the trigger.

Suicide by Police, metaphorically speaking.

"...Israel needs to stop her killing!"

The very minute that Hamas renounces its hostility.

International law clearly makes unlawful targeting of civilians and civilian objects war crimes!

Israel alone bears responsibility for every person Israel killed, Israel alone took lives!

What I shall never understand is human beings defending this wanton Israeli civilian massacres and brutal killing, it says so much about who they are and the hate they harbor in their very own hearts.

 

[Kondor3]

Somebody else can jump in here to deal with the Learning-Impaired for a while.

I'm gonna go make coffee and have a blueberry muffin or two.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Incorrect. There are PLENTY of places to move them outside the realm of heavily populated areas.

You just won't, because you think it gives you an additional edge, because IDF folk will hesitate to fire upon war-assets that are positioned nearby heavy concentrations of civilians.

Well, you're right... the IDF will hesitate... but they eventually suck it up and fire on such assets anyway... as a tactic in pursuit of the protection of their own people.

Whom they apparently value more highly than Hamas values its own civilians, given their penchant for positioning war-assets embedded amongst its own heavily-concentrated civilian population centers...

The Gaza Strip is the most densely populated place on Planet Earth!

And not one single house Israel targeted had weapons in it and civilians targeted and killed were unarmed.

It is all there in that Amnesty Report!

None of that serves to negate the contention that there are plenty of places in which to position war-assets away from heavy civilian population concentrations...

None of that serves to negate IDF claims that they were fired upon from those houses and schools and hospitals and offices, by mobile militia units who fired-and-fled, and who were long-gone by the time Amnesty showed-up, weeks and months later...

Move your war-assets.

You really need to address your failing reading comprehension skills.

Israel deliberately targeted civilian objects , like houses and schools, where no weapons were stored.

The civilians were not firing on soldiers from their houses and schools, that is a lie debunked in this thread by statements of 4 soldiers memorialized forever in film and by investigations of human rights groups like Amnesty.

Rocket attacks, that have killed a grand total of no more than 3 dozen Israelis in the past decade, from somewhere in Gaza at another place in time do not justify subsequent targeting of civilians in their homes and schools and churches and mosques inside Gaza at some later time.

No weapons in any of those thousands of houses with their civilian occupants that Israel targeted!

It is all addressed in that Amnesty Report.

 

[Kondor3]

Move your war-assets.