OK! What if . . . . . . ?

[Billo_Really]

Mentions removed by Moderation. Makes sure it's not a "call-out" thread. OPs in this forum should not involve particular members. The rest is just fine.. ---- FlaCalTenn


Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

You forgot the over 500 roadblocks and checkpoints "inside" the West Bank; Gazan air space and coastal waters; the Golan Heights and the 650 IDF attacks since the ceasefire that were in addition to the 29 responses to rocket fire, there would still be the conditioned mindset that the Pals are sub-human and you've done nothing wrong.

But to answer your question, if you did all that, plus the things you left out, then, if you did happen to get a rocket, the entire world community would be on your side and would have no problem with you seeking retribution for such attack.

The hardest problem for you to deal with, is this attitude that you have to give up everything to get nothing in return. All you're being asked to do, is honor international law and respect human rights. That's it!

End the occupation and blockade and you will have peace. After that, cut a deal with the PA to give those white trash settlers residence visa's, just like any other country in the world and train Hamas and PA security forces to protect them.

 

[Phoenall]

Billo_Really , Challenger , fanger , etc.

Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

Very Interesting Post Teddy.........No need to demolish buildings already built(which would of course be provocation and a total waste of money) then I think YES there would be peace,Teddy..steve but initially the border would be Under UN Control for the first 5 years........to prevent skirmishes on both sides...by then enough trust will have been garnered from both sides,moreover make the area a Economic Free Zone......so both sides can prosper

We all know that the UN are just toothless old grannies as shown when the Egyptians told them to leave. There is a need to destroy the settlements it is so the arab muslims have to start from scratch like the Jews did. that is the only way they will learn that the spoils go to the workers. The Palestinians would just enforce their charters and state that they will keep on fighting until all the land is theirs or they have all been killed.

 

[Phoenall]

Jews would be pushed into Mediterranean.
They would pay to go to New York.
The Muslims would still be mass murdering each other.
The Jews would take over America and finally blow the shit out of the Middle East.
Then they would move to Israel leaving America with a massive brain drain and bankrupt hospitals and museums.

WHY......such negativity,anyhow this would not happen

Yet you are advocating this very scenario all the time.

It will never happen because the Jews wont allow a left wing coward to run Israel.

 

[Billo_Really]

Jews would be pushed into Mediterranean.
They would pay to go to New York.
The Muslims would still be mass murdering each other.
The Jews would take over America and finally blow the shit out of the Middle East.
Then they would move to Israel leaving America with a massive brain drain and bankrupt hospitals and museums.

Is that the Stanley Kubrick version?

 

[Phoenall]

Jews would be pushed into Mediterranean.
They would pay to go to New York.
The Muslims would still be mass murdering each other.
The Jews would take over America and finally blow the shit out of the Middle East.
Then they would move to Israel leaving America with a massive brain drain and bankrupt hospitals and museums.

You are delusional. Jews will take over America? You seriously underestimate Christian America.

And you are just delusional as Christian America has done nothing to stop China taking over

 

[Billo_Really]

Jews would be pushed into Mediterranean.
They would pay to go to New York.
The Muslims would still be mass murdering each other.
The Jews would take over America and finally blow the shit out of the Middle East.
Then they would move to Israel leaving America with a massive brain drain and bankrupt hospitals and museums.

How can they take over America, when they can't even take over Gaza and the West Bank?

The most militarized nation on the planet, can't even defeat a bunch of stone-throwing teenagers!

 

[Phoenall]

Billo_Really , Challenger , fanger , etc.

Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

Without a larger view of the security for both Israel/Palestine --- I don't think drawing lines is the FIRST step.

Surrounding Israel with a weak and radicalized nation state -- EVEN IF there was success in the initial setup of a 2 state solution -- would invite all kinds of intrusions by any of 25 jihadist movements including Hesbollah, ISIS, Al Queda and the rest. A division like you are proposing would have to include regional players like Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt to set an Israel/Palestine defense zone and a capability to assure that a newly created Palestine did not soon soon fall into radical hands. Requires that a strong and reliable government is capable of being appointed and governing BEFORE you draw those lines..

Otherwise, the autonomy experiment with Gaza would likely turn into a larger regional threat for ALL the neighbors. Why do you think that Jordan and Egypt are so reluctant to vouch for and cosign a new Palestine state?

Teddy......Only Israel and Palestine can resolve this schism........you fall into the trap of worrying about other Arabic nations and ISIS and their ilk........all other people apart from Israel and Palestine......Like the Status Quo.......none of them give a stuff about Israel or the Palestinians......once there is Peace between these to nations all the Sabre Rattling with all the rest would cease because there would be nothing to rattle about and the Sting would be removed from the Middle East...the Schism would be closed........I say Fuck the rest...let Israel and Palestine get on with it........Together and Just each other.steve

I would SERIOUSLY like to see that also Steve.. But the reality is the instabilities in the region make even STABLE and mature govts like Jordan VERY nervous. Under these conditions -- a brand new Palestine without a means of self-defense or a totally united govt with a vision for development an peace is an afternoon snack for ISIS..

You give ISIS too much credence................They bleed like the rest of us Flac,steve

And when YOU stop Israel from making them bleed what then. We are back to square one because YOU want Israel to roll over and play dead. The same civilians will be killed by the same IDF for the same reasons and YOU will blame Israel all the way.

 

[fanger]

Look what happened when the Black people got equal rights in America

 

[Phoenall]

Mentions removed by Moderation. Makes sure it's not a "call-out" thread. OPs in this forum should not involve particular members. The rest is just fine.. ---- FlaCalTenn


Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

You forgot the over 500 roadblocks and checkpoints "inside" the West Bank; Gazan air space and coastal waters; the Golan Heights and the 650 IDF attacks since the ceasefire that were in addition to the 29 responses to rocket fire, there would still be the conditioned mindset that the Pals are sub-human and you've done nothing wrong.

But to answer your question, if you did all that, plus the things you left out, then, if you did happen to get a rocket, the entire world community would be on your side and would have no problem with you seeking retribution for such attack.

The hardest problem for you to deal with, is this attitude that you have to give up everything to get nothing in return. All you're being asked to do, is honor international law and respect human rights. That's it!

End the occupation and blockade and you will have peace. After that, cut a deal with the PA to give those white trash settlers residence visa's, just like any other country in the world and train Hamas and PA security forces to protect them.

You forget that they reduced the numbers of successful suicide attacks to ZERO so they worked, and they are legal under the Geneva conventions.

Still waiting for evidence of these alleged breaches that only you know about.

Strange then that Israel did all this in 2005 in gaza and the world was just as vehement that Israel was wrong in returning the fire and should find another solution to the Palestinians terrorism.

Problem is Israel is already within the bounds of International law, and has one of the best civil rights records in the M.E.. So what more can they do. Again still waiting for a link to these alleged breaches of international laws and civil rights.

Done in 2005 and the violence escalated 500%, Where is your evidence that it will work 10 years later when the Palestinians themselves say it wont. Even when they say that getting all they demand will not stop the attacks of Israel as their only goal is the genocide of the Jews and the destruction of Israel

 

[Phoenall]

Jews would be pushed into Mediterranean.
They would pay to go to New York.
The Muslims would still be mass murdering each other.
The Jews would take over America and finally blow the shit out of the Middle East.
Then they would move to Israel leaving America with a massive brain drain and bankrupt hospitals and museums.

Is that the Stanley Kubrick version?

No it is the version based on Palestinian rhetoric and recent historical evidence. You must have missed the calls to arms by the Palestinian leaders.

 

[Phoenall]

Jews would be pushed into Mediterranean.
They would pay to go to New York.
The Muslims would still be mass murdering each other.
The Jews would take over America and finally blow the shit out of the Middle East.
Then they would move to Israel leaving America with a massive brain drain and bankrupt hospitals and museums.

How can they take over America, when they can't even take over Gaza and the West Bank?

The most militarized nation on the planet, can't even defeat a bunch of stone-throwing teenagers!

They can it is just that YOU wont allow them to do it the Islamic way. If you did then there would now be peace in Palestine and the Jews would be safe. You wont even let them do it the American way and prefer that Jews get murdered by arab muslim terrorists.

 

[Phoenall]

Look what happened when the Black people got equal rights in America

Exactly and now whitey is hitting back.

 

[teddyearp]

Ending the occupation would only benefit about 1/3 of all Palestinians. What about the other 2/3?

Uh huh. Exactly as I thought. I still wouldn't be enough.

I knew I'd get you fucker to show your true colors. You do not want peace at all, you want the whole land and the Jews dead or gone.

 

[teddyearp]

You forgot the over 500 roadblocks and checkpoints "inside" the West Bank; Gazan air space and coastal waters; the Golan Heights and the 650 IDF attacks since the ceasefire that were in addition to the 29 responses to rocket fire, there would still be the conditioned mindset that the Pals are sub-human and you've done nothing wrong.

So what part of totally leave the west bank left something out? What part of "all over the Israel controlled Gaza borders" left something out? When was the Golan Height mentioned?

Oh, I know. Because that and the rest of your tirade is the real truth. It wouldn't be enough. Nothing will be enough until the Jews are dead or removed from Israel. Why don't you just tell the truth?

And Steve, if I was them, I would damn sure not leave any building intact that Israel built, just like when they left Gaza.

 

[USAF 2023]

Mentions removed by Moderation. Makes sure it's not a "call-out" thread. OPs in this forum should not involve particular members. The rest is just fine.. ---- FlaCalTenn


Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

You forgot the over 500 roadblocks and checkpoints "inside" the West Bank; Gazan air space and coastal waters; the Golan Heights and the 650 IDF attacks since the ceasefire that were in addition to the 29 responses to rocket fire, there would still be the conditioned mindset that the Pals are sub-human and you've done nothing wrong.

But to answer your question, if you did all that, plus the things you left out, then, if you did happen to get a rocket, the entire world community would be on your side and would have no problem with you seeking retribution for such attack.

The hardest problem for you to deal with, is this attitude that you have to give up everything to get nothing in return. All you're being asked to do, is honor international law and respect human rights. That's it!

End the occupation and blockade and you will have peace. After that, cut a deal with the PA to give those white trash settlers residence visa's, just like any other country in the world and train Hamas and PA security forces to protect them.

Another lie. The Palestinian just admitted that even if Israel did go back to the 67 Borders the two State Solution would never be accepted. Just more proof that " International Law" is a myth.

 

[fanger]

Whats wrong with one state and equal rights?

 

[Phoenall]

Whats wrong with one state and equal rights?

because the muslims would not accept the Jews as equals and within 6 months would have passed apartheid laws to get them out. Or introduce dnimmi laws and the pact of Umar that would result in mass murders

 

[Challenger]

Mentions removed by Moderation. Makes sure it's not a "call-out" thread. OPs in this forum should not involve particular members. The rest is just fine.. ---- FlaCalTenn


Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

Short answer: depends.

Personally I've lost faith in the "two state solution" that's been peddled since the 1930's. Partition always results in future conflict, all over the world where its happened, so for me the "one state solution" holds more appeal. A unitary state where Christian, Jewish and Muslim Palestinians or Christian, Jewish and Muslim Israelis live together in a secular state with constitutional safeguards for all.

Ironically, that's what the Palestinian Muslims originally proposed, but the idea was rejected out of hand and this mess has gone on for most of the last century up until now with no sign of an end.

Maybe it's time for a re-think.

 

[aris2chat]

Jews would be pushed into Mediterranean.
They would pay to go to New York.
The Muslims would still be mass murdering each other.
The Jews would take over America and finally blow the shit out of the Middle East.
Then they would move to Israel leaving America with a massive brain drain and bankrupt hospitals and museums.

Is that the Stanley Kubrick version?

No it is the version based on Palestinian rhetoric and recent historical evidence. You must have missed the calls to arms by the Palestinian leaders.

..........just about daily

 

[Coyote]

I think that peace is a better possibility.

Some of the larger and oldest settlements would have to stay. There would need to be negotiated land swaps.
Likewise - no right of return, Palestine itself would have to absorb the refugees from the camps.
Jeruselum - just don't know what is best there...joint control....??
Once they have a state, they have something to keep (or lose) - and if they are bad actors, they'll be treated like other rogue states.

What have the Palestinians offered to " negotiate land swaps?" They are also insisting on " Right of Return" Just more proof that they are the ones who do not want a " Two State Solution" therefore no peace

Neither side has offered swaps in good faith. Both will have to give on some thing - settlements and right of return. Neither seems to want peace.