OK! What if . . . . . . ?

[Coyote]

Mentions removed by Moderation. Makes sure it's not a "call-out" thread. OPs in this forum should not involve particular members. The rest is just fine.. ---- FlaCalTenn


Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

You forgot the over 500 roadblocks and checkpoints "inside" the West Bank; Gazan air space and coastal waters; the Golan Heights and the 650 IDF attacks since the ceasefire that were in addition to the 29 responses to rocket fire, there would still be the conditioned mindset that the Pals are sub-human and you've done nothing wrong.

But to answer your question, if you did all that, plus the things you left out, then, if you did happen to get a rocket, the entire world community would be on your side and would have no problem with you seeking retribution for such attack.

The hardest problem for you to deal with, is this attitude that you have to give up everything to get nothing in return. All you're being asked to do, is honor international law and respect human rights. That's it!

End the occupation and blockade and you will have peace. After that, cut a deal with the PA to give those white trash settlers residence visa's, just like any other country in the world and train Hamas and PA security forces to protect them.

You forget that they reduced the numbers of successful suicide attacks to ZERO so they worked, and they are legal under the Geneva conventions.

Still waiting for evidence of these alleged breaches that only you know about.

Strange then that Israel did all this in 2005 in gaza and the world was just as vehement that Israel was wrong in returning the fire and should find another solution to the Palestinians terrorism.

Problem is Israel is already within the bounds of International law, and has one of the best civil rights records in the M.E.. So what more can they do. Again still waiting for a link to these alleged breaches of international laws and civil rights.

Done in 2005 and the violence escalated 500%, Where is your evidence that it will work 10 years later when the Palestinians themselves say it wont. Even when they say that getting all they demand will not stop the attacks of Israel as their only goal is the genocide of the Jews and the destruction of Israel

That isn't saying much - the bar in the ME is VERY low.

 

[montelatici]

I think that peace is a better possibility.

Some of the larger and oldest settlements would have to stay. There would need to be negotiated land swaps.
Likewise - no right of return, Palestine itself would have to absorb the refugees from the camps.
Jeruselum - just don't know what is best there...joint control....??
Once they have a state, they have something to keep (or lose) - and if they are bad actors, they'll be treated like other rogue states.

What have the Palestinians offered to " negotiate land swaps?" They are also insisting on " Right of Return" Just more proof that they are the ones who do not want a " Two State Solution" therefore no peace

Neither side has offered swaps in good faith. Both will have to give on some thing - settlements and right of return. Neither seems to want peace.

What more can the Palestinians give?

 

[Phoenall]

Mentions removed by Moderation. Makes sure it's not a "call-out" thread. OPs in this forum should not involve particular members. The rest is just fine.. ---- FlaCalTenn


Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

Short answer: depends.

Personally I've lost faith in the "two state solution" that's been peddled since the 1930's. Partition always results in future conflict, all over the world where its happened, so for me the "one state solution" holds more appeal. A unitary state where Christian, Jewish and Muslim Palestinians or Christian, Jewish and Muslim Israelis live together in a secular state with constitutional safeguards for all.

Ironically, that's what the Palestinian Muslims originally proposed, but the idea was rejected out of hand and this mess has gone on for most of the last century up until now with no sign of an end.

Maybe it's time for a re-think.

And what evidence do we have that the arab muslims would keep to their word. The only evidence we do have is that after a short period of time the arab muslims would change the rules in their favour and oust the Jews and Christians before starting in on massacres and atrocities.

 

[aris2chat]

If it comes to war, saudi will stand with Israel against the Palestinians.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Mentions removed by Moderation. Makes sure it's not a "call-out" thread. OPs in this forum should not involve particular members. The rest is just fine.. ---- FlaCalTenn


Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

Kinda doubt it. If history's anything to go by. Did we have a real peace after World War 1 with Germany, or were they just defeated and rebuilding for another go of it?

 

[Phoenall]

I think that peace is a better possibility.

Some of the larger and oldest settlements would have to stay. There would need to be negotiated land swaps.
Likewise - no right of return, Palestine itself would have to absorb the refugees from the camps.
Jeruselum - just don't know what is best there...joint control....??
Once they have a state, they have something to keep (or lose) - and if they are bad actors, they'll be treated like other rogue states.

What have the Palestinians offered to " negotiate land swaps?" They are also insisting on " Right of Return" Just more proof that they are the ones who do not want a " Two State Solution" therefore no peace

Neither side has offered swaps in good faith. Both will have to give on some thing - settlements and right of return. Neither seems to want peace.

From 1967 Israel has offered everything and seen it refused , in fact Israel begged the arab muslims to co-exist with them in peace and the arab muslims invaded with the sole intention of wiping out the Jews. It is written in their declaration of independence that is lodged with the UN. So if you did the research you would get an eye opener on just who is to blame for the current crisis

 

[Phoenall]

Mentions removed by Moderation. Makes sure it's not a "call-out" thread. OPs in this forum should not involve particular members. The rest is just fine.. ---- FlaCalTenn


Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

You forgot the over 500 roadblocks and checkpoints "inside" the West Bank; Gazan air space and coastal waters; the Golan Heights and the 650 IDF attacks since the ceasefire that were in addition to the 29 responses to rocket fire, there would still be the conditioned mindset that the Pals are sub-human and you've done nothing wrong.

But to answer your question, if you did all that, plus the things you left out, then, if you did happen to get a rocket, the entire world community would be on your side and would have no problem with you seeking retribution for such attack.

The hardest problem for you to deal with, is this attitude that you have to give up everything to get nothing in return. All you're being asked to do, is honor international law and respect human rights. That's it!

End the occupation and blockade and you will have peace. After that, cut a deal with the PA to give those white trash settlers residence visa's, just like any other country in the world and train Hamas and PA security forces to protect them.

You forget that they reduced the numbers of successful suicide attacks to ZERO so they worked, and they are legal under the Geneva conventions.

Still waiting for evidence of these alleged breaches that only you know about.

Strange then that Israel did all this in 2005 in gaza and the world was just as vehement that Israel was wrong in returning the fire and should find another solution to the Palestinians terrorism.

Problem is Israel is already within the bounds of International law, and has one of the best civil rights records in the M.E.. So what more can they do. Again still waiting for a link to these alleged breaches of international laws and civil rights.

Done in 2005 and the violence escalated 500%, Where is your evidence that it will work 10 years later when the Palestinians themselves say it wont. Even when they say that getting all they demand will not stop the attacks of Israel as their only goal is the genocide of the Jews and the destruction of Israel

That isn't saying much - the bar in the ME is VERY low.

because that is where the Palestinians have set it, and have shown that they don't want peace, just the genocide of the Jews and the destruction of Israel. It was all in the letter to the UN detailing that even if they agreed to a two state solution they would still attack Israel

 

[Coyote]

I think that peace is a better possibility.

Some of the larger and oldest settlements would have to stay. There would need to be negotiated land swaps.
Likewise - no right of return, Palestine itself would have to absorb the refugees from the camps.
Jeruselum - just don't know what is best there...joint control....??
Once they have a state, they have something to keep (or lose) - and if they are bad actors, they'll be treated like other rogue states.

What have the Palestinians offered to " negotiate land swaps?" They are also insisting on " Right of Return" Just more proof that they are the ones who do not want a " Two State Solution" therefore no peace

Neither side has offered swaps in good faith. Both will have to give on some thing - settlements and right of return. Neither seems to want peace.

From 1967 Israel has offered everything and seen it refused , in fact Israel begged the arab muslims to co-exist with them in peace and the arab muslims invaded with the sole intention of wiping out the Jews. It is written in their declaration of independence that is lodged with the UN. So if you did the research you would get an eye opener on just who is to blame for the current crisis

pfft. There is a difference between words on paper and actions on the ground. There's enough blame to spread around.

 

[Phoenall]

I think that peace is a better possibility.

Some of the larger and oldest settlements would have to stay. There would need to be negotiated land swaps.
Likewise - no right of return, Palestine itself would have to absorb the refugees from the camps.
Jeruselum - just don't know what is best there...joint control....??
Once they have a state, they have something to keep (or lose) - and if they are bad actors, they'll be treated like other rogue states.

What have the Palestinians offered to " negotiate land swaps?" They are also insisting on " Right of Return" Just more proof that they are the ones who do not want a " Two State Solution" therefore no peace

Neither side has offered swaps in good faith. Both will have to give on some thing - settlements and right of return. Neither seems to want peace.

What more can the Palestinians give?

Peaceful co-existence which is all Israel has ever asked for.

 

[montelatici]

If it comes to war, saudi will stand with Israel against the Palestinians.

You are nuts. LOL

 

[Coyote]

Mentions removed by Moderation. Makes sure it's not a "call-out" thread. OPs in this forum should not involve particular members. The rest is just fine.. ---- FlaCalTenn


Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

Kinda doubt it. If history's anything to go by. Did we have a real peace after World War 1 with Germany, or were they just defeated and rebuilding for another go of it?

We learned a lesson from the punative "peace" following WW1, and after WW2 had the Marshall plan. Wonder if something like that would make a difference...thinking about the ME situation in general where toppling dictators has been a failed policy.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Mentions removed by Moderation. Makes sure it's not a "call-out" thread. OPs in this forum should not involve particular members. The rest is just fine.. ---- FlaCalTenn


Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

Kinda doubt it. If history's anything to go by. Did we have a real peace after World War 1 with Germany, or were they just defeated and rebuilding for another go of it?

We learned a lesson from the punative "peace" following WW1, and after WW2 had the Marshall plan. Wonder if something like that would make a difference...thinking about the ME situation in general where toppling dictators has been a failed policy.

Compromise peace like in the OP would create a bit of bad blood so I'm very doubtful it'd work for any greta length of time.

I think they're gonna have to have at it eventually, lose so many people that reformers and peace activism finally wins out Seems how these things always go. Isn't until the alternative is fresh in people's minds that they mutually compromise in a real sense.

 

[Phoenall]

Mentions removed by Moderation. Makes sure it's not a "call-out" thread. OPs in this forum should not involve particular members. The rest is just fine.. ---- FlaCalTenn


Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

Kinda doubt it. If history's anything to go by. Did we have a real peace after World War 1 with Germany, or were they just defeated and rebuilding for another go of it?

A little bit of both, but the victors got greedy and tried to starve Germany to death. took all its farmland from it and then started to kill its citizens. All it took was the right man with the right dream to come along and make the German people strong again. Take them out of the rut they had been forced into and tell the world they could no longer pay their blood money. Because of rampant inflation Germany resorted to a barter system for food and products and it worked, but the world banks lost the chance to take all their money and so engineered a war.

 

[Phoenall]

I think that peace is a better possibility.

Some of the larger and oldest settlements would have to stay. There would need to be negotiated land swaps.
Likewise - no right of return, Palestine itself would have to absorb the refugees from the camps.
Jeruselum - just don't know what is best there...joint control....??
Once they have a state, they have something to keep (or lose) - and if they are bad actors, they'll be treated like other rogue states.

What have the Palestinians offered to " negotiate land swaps?" They are also insisting on " Right of Return" Just more proof that they are the ones who do not want a " Two State Solution" therefore no peace

Neither side has offered swaps in good faith. Both will have to give on some thing - settlements and right of return. Neither seems to want peace.

From 1967 Israel has offered everything and seen it refused , in fact Israel begged the arab muslims to co-exist with them in peace and the arab muslims invaded with the sole intention of wiping out the Jews. It is written in their declaration of independence that is lodged with the UN. So if you did the research you would get an eye opener on just who is to blame for the current crisis

pfft. There is a difference between words on paper and actions on the ground. There's enough blame to spread around.

In 1947 the arab armies invaded with the intention of overthrowing any Jewish government and taking all the land for themselves. In may 1948 the Jews declared independence and put this in their declaration

WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.

WE APPEAL to the Jewish people throughout the Diaspora to rally round the Jews of Eretz-Israel in the tasks of immigration and upbuilding and to stand by them in the great struggle for the realization of the age-old dream - the redemption of Israel.



How did the arabs react to these requests, they attacked and were beaten back. The Jews lost 10% of their population in the battle and even after the first cease fire in 1948 the arabs carried on attacking. That was when the UN should have stepped in and put an end to arab nationalism and violence by arresting the leaders and army chiefs on charges of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity

 

[Phoenall]

Mentions removed by Moderation. Makes sure it's not a "call-out" thread. OPs in this forum should not involve particular members. The rest is just fine.. ---- FlaCalTenn


Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

Kinda doubt it. If history's anything to go by. Did we have a real peace after World War 1 with Germany, or were they just defeated and rebuilding for another go of it?

We learned a lesson from the punative "peace" following WW1, and after WW2 had the Marshall plan. Wonder if something like that would make a difference...thinking about the ME situation in general where toppling dictators has been a failed policy.

Compromise peace like in the OP would create a bit of bad blood so I'm very doubtful it'd work for any greta length of time.

I think they're gonna have to have at it eventually, lose so many people that reformers and peace activism finally wins out Seems how these things always go. Isn't until the alternative is fresh in people's minds that they mutually compromise in a real sense.

The other arab muslim nations know how to get peace with the Palestinians and employed it successfully many times. We should learn from them how to treat the Palestinians and keep them in their place.

 

[Indeependent]

I think that peace is a better possibility.

Some of the larger and oldest settlements would have to stay. There would need to be negotiated land swaps.
Likewise - no right of return, Palestine itself would have to absorb the refugees from the camps.
Jeruselum - just don't know what is best there...joint control....??
Once they have a state, they have something to keep (or lose) - and if they are bad actors, they'll be treated like other rogue states.

What have the Palestinians offered to " negotiate land swaps?" They are also insisting on " Right of Return" Just more proof that they are the ones who do not want a " Two State Solution" therefore no peace

Neither side has offered swaps in good faith. Both will have to give on some thing - settlements and right of return. Neither seems to want peace.

Olmert did.
Oops! That's not on your web site.

 

[Lipush]

Mentions removed by Moderation. Makes sure it's not a "call-out" thread. OPs in this forum should not involve particular members. The rest is just fine.. ---- FlaCalTenn


Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

No.

 

[Lipush]

Billo_Really , Challenger , fanger , etc.

Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

They would consider the jews were weak and attack.

WHY.....Israel would not be weaker in anyway......but it would bring the positive situation that Pals/Israelis can look forward to a long and lasting Peace for both peoples..Surely this is what we all want ??????steve

And Hamas will accept such a solution? Ha.

 

[montelatici]

In any deal, the Christians including the Armenians will want the Jewish squatters in Christian Jerusalem out.

 

[Lipush]

Mentions removed by Moderation. Makes sure it's not a "call-out" thread. OPs in this forum should not involve particular members. The rest is just fine.. ---- FlaCalTenn


Tell me honestly. If Israel were to totally leave the West Bank, evict and demolish their 'settlements' (but what about Hevron?), split Jerusalem (the old city) giving 'Palestine' the muslum and (eek) Christian quarters, retain the Jewish and Armernian ones and the Wall, the new city along the 'seam line', stop the border checkpoints all over Israel controlled borders of the Gaza strip and let 'Palestine' declare their independence; would their finally be peace?

You forgot the over 500 roadblocks and checkpoints "inside" the West Bank; Gazan air space and coastal waters; the Golan Heights and the 650 IDF attacks since the ceasefire that were in addition to the 29 responses to rocket fire, there would still be the conditioned mindset that the Pals are sub-human and you've done nothing wrong.

But to answer your question, if you did all that, plus the things you left out, then, if you did happen to get a rocket, the entire world community would be on your side and would have no problem with you seeking retribution for such attack.

The hardest problem for you to deal with, is this attitude that you have to give up everything to get nothing in return. All you're being asked to do, is honor international law and respect human rights. That's it!

End the occupation and blockade and you will have peace. After that, cut a deal with the PA to give those white trash settlers residence visa's, just like any other country in the world and train Hamas and PA security forces to protect them.

What does the Golan Heights has to do with the Palestinians?