Orthodox Jewish Men Cause Flight Delay By Refusing To Sit Next To Women

[Coyote]

You have some nerve talking about the holy Jews like that. Some nerve I tell you. It's El Al and the plane is headed for Israel. Show some respect and be still. You don't want to provoke the LORD to wrath.

You think women should give up their seats so men won't be polluted by sitting next to them? Seriously...I don't care what religion it is - if they have issues sitting next to us, they can charter a private flight.

"polluted"? it's out of respect actually. Funny you defend islam very forcefully here. I've never heard you speak in defense of the women, who in most cases are second class people and in some cases more like property or animals...Go figure

I wouldn't give up my seat for a Muslim man either just because he demanded it. However - Delta4Embassy made some good points on the religious values and the airline's policies. My point is - if I bought a ticket in good faith and chose a seat, I shouldn't be forced to give it up. It should be my choice.

Women are second class in the fundamentalist versions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity. I would not choose that for myself.

Christianity is most responsible for pushing equality for women.

Christianity is most responsible?


Christianity?

Pagan religions have pretty much ALWAYS recognized equality between man and woman.
​

Not necessarily true.

A number of progressive Christian churches were in the forefront of equality for women and and for abolition, more so in the north than in the south. Pagan religions - which comprise a wide variety of beliefs - did not always recognize equality between men and women. Some did, many did not. For example Greek and Roman women had comparatively few rights. Celtic women fared much better and in the early Christian Church, they could hold equal office. That ended, I think, when Rome became the center and women were effectively subjegated and covered in sin. Sucked to be a woman in the "good old days".

 

[Lipush]

Are you Christian? Because they think Mary's a whore. Just thought you should know

Are you an idiot?...That was a rhetorical question Jew hater

So what do they think about Mary?

No opinion, not part of our religion, no need to discuss it really

Really? No opinion on a virgin birth?

You've got plenty of opinions about Mohammed though. Hmm...

How many Jews did Muhammad had killing, how man Miriam, mother of Yeshua?

Lame comparison.

Anyway, as that being said, we don't concern ourself and your beliefs. Next.

 

[Desperado]

Ultra-Orthodox Jews spit on Christians. They also apparently hate women.

They don't.

Some of your are really disgusting. And ignorant.

They don't what? hate women? or spit on Christians?
Not sure how they feel about women, but the definitely spit on Christians!
Ultra-Orthodox spitting attacks on Old City clergymen becoming daily
Ultra-Orthodox spitting attacks on Old City clergymen becoming daily Israel News Haaretz

 

[Coyote]

It's easy for the rest of us to make fun of these people but I admire them for their strong faith in God.

Good for you. I think they're full of shit. They're giddy over something they have no proof of.

You have some nerve talking about the holy Jews like that. Some nerve I tell you. It's El Al and the plane is headed for Israel. Show some respect and be still. You don't want to provoke the LORD to wrath.

You think women should give up their seats so men won't be polluted by sitting next to them? Seriously...I don't care what religion it is - if they have issues sitting next to us, they can charter a private flight.

No woman should give up her seat, that's rediculous. I blame both them and the flight managers for this.

This is something they know beforehand. I find it almost embarrasing that they chose to sit them next to women, knowing that in those seats there are those who demand Bagatz Kosher food, it's obvious that who does that is orthodox. They could just make sure to sit them next to each other when they planned this flight.

But the men could have delt with this better, too.

No one is innocent there, IMHO

Ya, I agree.

I suppose this is pretty embarressing for the airline.

 

[martybegan]

Interesting take on the thing from a columnist at PJ Media.

PJ Lifestyle The Battle Against Israel 8217 s Orthodox Patriarchy

The struggles women face in Israel aren’t limited to spousal or sexual abuse. Women are emotionally, mentally and spiritually diminished as well. Nowhere is this more evident than at theKotel (Western Wall). After 1967, the Orthodox Chief Rabbinate was given control of the site by the government of Israel. Since then, women and men have been cordoned off away from one another. The tiny wall has been split, with 2/3rds of the territory going to men, and a measly 1/3 to women who struggle for an inch of wall to touch as they pray, tripping over chairs left there presumably because they are the weaker sex and need to sit down to pray. Boys who dare to peek through the fence separating the sections are quickly pulled away, cracks covered by the tallitot (prayer shawls) of their adult male counterparts. If a woman dares to wear a tallit of her own she risks being hauled away by the police. Mothers who want to watch their sons become a bar mitzvah must stand behind another gate cordoning off the male area for prayer. Hopefully they keep their binoculars handy

.

I’m not sure whether it mattered. One young man very kindly said to me, “You don’t understand, women are holier than men.” I said, “That’s rubbish and it doesn’t excuse the insult,” and then I added that I spent 13 years in yeshiva and there’s nothing he could tell me that I haven’t already heard. Then the original man, the one who refused to sit next to me, muttered to another man as he was walking away, “She doesn’t understand.” I said, “I understand everything, and don’t talk to me as if I’m not here.” He ignored me, and all the other men turned their backs and did not respond or even look at me.

Later that evening, my Israeli-American father-in-law proffered Delta as the solution to El Al, just as Tel Aviv has become the solution to an ever-more religious Jerusalem. But I think I’ll keep flying El Al, for the same reason I’d encourage non-Orthodox Israelis to stay put in Jerusalem. Because the bottom line is, if the Haredi don’t like what we do, that’s their problem. We’ve learned to live with them, now it’s their turn to live with us. And as a proud Zionist, I’m more than happy to pack my American biblical feminism in my carry-on bag.

 

[Lipush]

No one in public accommodation has the right to say "that person can't sit next to me" if said person is not drunk or high or otherwise offensive to a reasonable person standard.

Does the one have the right to force someone to act against their religion? by their standarts, it's like try and shove food into their mouth on Yom Kippur.

Try and get that.

 

[Lipush]

Ultra-Orthodox Jews spit on Christians. They also apparently hate women.

They don't.

Some of your are really disgusting. And ignorant.

They don't what? hate women? or spit on Christians?
Not sure how they feel about women, but the definitely spit on Christians!
Ultra-Orthodox spitting attacks on Old City clergymen becoming daily
Ultra-Orthodox spitting attacks on Old City clergymen becoming daily Israel News Haaretz

Knowing Ha'aretz, who never miss an opportunity to blame religion and religious people for every wrong made on earth (especially if they're Jews), I'd take that article as 'truth' very limitedly. That being said, They should respect anyone.

And no, they don't hate women. every now and then you come across some things painting them in a bad way, but all the orthodox men I came across to personally know, where much more respectful than most secular men i came across.

 

[Coyote]

I suspect that the Ha'aretz, like any group - run the gamut from those who respect women to those who use their religion to abuse them. It's human nature. But I know that I would not want to be a member of any such group that restricted my choices solely because of gender. My forebears fought hard for the rights I enjoy.

 

[BlackFlag]

Anyway, as that being said, we don't concern ourself and your beliefs. Next.

Well duh. That's the whole point of the OP. My belief, and that of many others including the woman on the plane probably, is that those men are assholes. And that's mostly because they aren't concerned with anyone else's beliefs.

I don't know why you feel the need to point that out again.

 

[Lipush]

Why are they assholes, for refusing to sit in a certain place. If a Heridi man was obligated to sit next to me, I'd feel bad that he has to give up his beliefs because people didn't understand his religious obligation forbids it. I would feel bad for him, more than myself, to be honest.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Why are they assholes, for refusing to sit in a certain place. If a Heridi man was obligated to sit next to me, I'd feel bad that he has to give up his beliefs because people didn't understand his religious obligation forbids it. I would feel bad for him, more than myself, to be honest.

Incident went far beyond the no-touching rule. They wanted a radius around each of them with dozens on the flight. Clearly impossible to accomodate.

 

[Jroc]

"polluted"? it's out of respect actually. Funny you defend islam very forcefully here. I've never heard you speak in defense of the women, who in most cases are second class people and in some cases more like property or animals...Go figure

I wouldn't give up my seat for a Muslim man either just because he demanded it. However - Delta4Embassy made some good points on the religious values and the airline's policies. My point is - if I bought a ticket in good faith and chose a seat, I shouldn't be forced to give it up. It should be my choice.

Women are second class in the fundamentalist versions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity. I would not choose that for myself.

You're full of shit..because you know nothing about the Jewish religion, and Christianity is most responsible for pushing equality for women. Most of islam treat women very baldly. but that doesn't matter to you because your mission here will not allow you to acknowledge that fact

I think you're the one that is full of shit here. I specifically said "fundamentalist" versions of those religions. They most certainly do not believe in "equality" for women.

You built a strawman.

Jewish women are more important than the men, because it is through them that the Jewish people continue.

I think that is what some believe, but it is easy to cross the line into "less than". I think many fundamentalist sects do so - abusing a woman is ok because the man is the final authority. On paper, in selected scripture - each has a role to play that is different. But human nature doesn't necessarily follow that and that very scripture gives license to abuse.

The Jewish woman plays a crucial part in G-d's plan for mankind.

When Torah was first given, G-d instructed Moses to speak to the women first and explain to them its greatness, thereby strengthening the rest of people's acceptance of it as well.

When the Tabernacle was first built, Jewish women and girls were the first to donate; only afterwards, and inspired by their example, did the men contribute further.

A Jewish woman or girl is granted by G-d a distinctive gracefulness in her approach; a pleasant, soft, peaceful manner through which she influences her environment and her family in all matters of goodness. When she utilizes this special pleasantness and peacefulness -- combining it with firm discipline where appropriate -- she increases the success of G-d's plan in ways that no man can, and turns her home and her environment into a "Tabernacle" of which G-d can say: "I shall dwell in their midst.

 

[indiajo]

they don't touch members of the opposite sex other than relatives out of respect for their family and others.

they probably should have planned better. But there is no reason they couldn't respected as well.

Respect has to be earned.

 

[Penelope]

Are you Christian? Because they think Mary's a whore. Just thought you should know

Are you an idiot?...That was a rhetorical question Jew hater

So what do they think about Mary?

No opinion, not part of our religion, no need to discuss it really

Really? No opinion on a virgin birth?

You've got plenty of opinions about Mohammed though. Hmm...

We don't sit around and discuss other religions sorry doesn't happen

Only Islam hey!!

 

[Jarlaxle]

No one in public accommodation has the right to say "that person can't sit next to me" if said person is not drunk or high or otherwise offensive to a reasonable person standard.

Does the one have the right to force someone to act against their religion? by their standarts, it's like try and shove food into their mouth on Yom Kippur.

Try and get that.

Then they should charter their own plane, or buy the entire section of seats. Problem solved.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Some good points above, Antares in particular.

The men should have planned better and bought block seats to sit together.

In no way should the women be forced to move.

 

[Jroc]

Are you an idiot?...That was a rhetorical question Jew hater

So what do they think about Mary?

No opinion, not part of our religion, no need to discuss it really

Really? No opinion on a virgin birth?

You've got plenty of opinions about Mohammed though. Hmm...

We don't sit around and discuss other religions sorry doesn't happen

Only Islam hey!!

Nope....muslims seem to be more concerned with he Jews actually...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Muslims are far more concerned with Jews, then the Jews are their Abrahamic outsiders.

 

[sealybobo]

It's easy for the rest of us to make fun of these people but I admire them for their strong faith in God.

I feel sorry for them. Spending all that time thinking about a god that doesn't even exist.

 

[JakeStarkey]

And they feel sorry for you.

It all evens out.