Our Kennedy.

[Bfgrn]

And what's REALLY ironic is that Kennedy did what he did because he was worried that the world would figure out that the US was behind the invasion! Duh? Like the world DIDN'T know that? Totally idiotic.

THAT stupidity is what led Nikita K. to believe that he could intimidate Kennedy by building the Berlin wall and putting missiles into Cuba.

The Bay of Pigs was truly a blessing for President Kennedy, the United States and the world. It taught him a valuable lesson that prevented WWIII a year later.

Here is what we NOW know about the missiles that were in Cuba in 1962---They were ARMED with nuclear warheads and personnel on the island had orders to launch if the US invaded.

AGAIN, Kennedy was lied to. But he had learned not to trust the Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs, the CIA and the war hawks in this country.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kennedy was particularly alarmed by his trigger-happy Air Force chief, cigar-chomping General Curtis LeMay, who firmly believed the U.S. should unleash a pre-emptive nuclear broadside against Russia while America still enjoyed massive arms superiority. Throughout the 13-day Cuban missile crisis, Kennedy was under relentless pressure from LeMay and nearly his entire national-security circle to "fry" Cuba, in the Air Force chief's memorable language. But J.F.K., whose only key support in the increasingly tense Cabinet Room meetings came from his brother Bobby and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, kept searching for a nonmilitary solution. When Kennedy, assiduously working the back channels to the Kremlin, finally succeeded in cutting a deal with Khrushchev, the world survived "the most dangerous moment in human history," in Schlesinger's words. But no one at the time knew just how dangerous. Years later, attending the 40th anniversary of the crisis at a conference in Havana, Schlesinger, Sorensen and McNamara were stunned to learn that if U.S. forces had attacked Cuba, Russian commanders on the island were authorized to respond with tactical and strategic nuclear missiles. The Joint Chiefs had assured Kennedy during the crisis that "no nuclear warheads were in Cuba at the time," Sorensen grimly noted. "They were wrong." If Kennedy had bowed to his military advisers' pressure, a vast swath of the urban U.S. within missile range of the Soviet installations in Cuba could have been reduced to radioactive rubble.

Read more: Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME

And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.”
President John F. Kennedy

 

[Sallow]

You've provided "proof" that the Kennedy Administration looked into a plan to scale down troops in Vietnam when it was believed that the South Vietnamese were capable of taking over the fight by themselves but you've completely ignored what Kennedy subsequently decided after being informed that the South Vietnamese were NOT ready. It's a kind of "selective" memory that liberals have used to try and clean up Kennedy's actual actions so that they match the myth of Kennedy that has been constructed after his death. The facts are that when Kennedy was told that the Diem regime was not ready to go it alone he authorized MORE advisers be sent to Vietnam. I know you JFK lovers don't WANT to believe that but it's what took place.

This is why you guys aren't taken seriously.

You said there was "no historic" proof then when confronted with "historic" proof, you qualify it.

Seriously.

There's no right answer with you guys.

And you never admit fault.

Being "perfect" makes you a reptile.

What can I say, Sallow...I'm a history major. We're taught to look at source material in context. It doesn't always mean what you THINK it does. In this case you've cherry picked a report from a time when the Kennedy Administration did believe reports that the South Vietnamese were capable of handling the war against the North on their own. Subsequent to that however they realized that was not the case and that a withdraw from South Vietnam would almost certainly result in a takeover by the communists. JFK was adamant that he would not allow that to happen...a position that he made clear numerous times FOLLOWING when what you provided came out.

Governments conduct studies and draw up contingency plans for many things. Some of them come to fruition. Most however do not. Your plan is one of the ones that didn't. It was wishful thinking on Kennedy's part and he very quickly determined that it wasn't something he could do.

What you "can" say is that you were wrong. But that didn't happen.

Which is the case with most of you folks.

 

[Oldstyle]

And what's REALLY ironic is that Kennedy did what he did because he was worried that the world would figure out that the US was behind the invasion! Duh? Like the world DIDN'T know that? Totally idiotic.

THAT stupidity is what led Nikita K. to believe that he could intimidate Kennedy by building the Berlin wall and putting missiles into Cuba.

The Bay of Pigs was truly a blessing for President Kennedy, the United States and the world. It taught him a valuable lesson that prevented WWIII a year later.

Here is what we NOW know about the missiles that were in Cuba in 1962---They were ARMED with nuclear warheads and personnel on the island had orders to launch if the US invaded.

AGAIN, Kennedy was lied to. But he had learned not to trust the Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs, the CIA and the war hawks in this country.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kennedy was particularly alarmed by his trigger-happy Air Force chief, cigar-chomping General Curtis LeMay, who firmly believed the U.S. should unleash a pre-emptive nuclear broadside against Russia while America still enjoyed massive arms superiority. Throughout the 13-day Cuban missile crisis, Kennedy was under relentless pressure from LeMay and nearly his entire national-security circle to "fry" Cuba, in the Air Force chief's memorable language. But J.F.K., whose only key support in the increasingly tense Cabinet Room meetings came from his brother Bobby and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, kept searching for a nonmilitary solution. When Kennedy, assiduously working the back channels to the Kremlin, finally succeeded in cutting a deal with Khrushchev, the world survived "the most dangerous moment in human history," in Schlesinger's words. But no one at the time knew just how dangerous. Years later, attending the 40th anniversary of the crisis at a conference in Havana, Schlesinger, Sorensen and McNamara were stunned to learn that if U.S. forces had attacked Cuba, Russian commanders on the island were authorized to respond with tactical and strategic nuclear missiles. The Joint Chiefs had assured Kennedy during the crisis that "no nuclear warheads were in Cuba at the time," Sorensen grimly noted. "They were wrong." If Kennedy had bowed to his military advisers' pressure, a vast swath of the urban U.S. within missile range of the Soviet installations in Cuba could have been reduced to radioactive rubble.

Read more: Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME

And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.”
President John F. Kennedy

The more you quote "Warrior For Peace"...the more I'm amazed by their ability to get the facts wrong.

The Real Cuban Missile Crisis - Benjamin Schwarz - The Atlantic

Try reading an account of the Cuban Missile Crisis from a source a little less involved in the "deification" of JFK.

 

[Bfgrn]

And what's REALLY ironic is that Kennedy did what he did because he was worried that the world would figure out that the US was behind the invasion! Duh? Like the world DIDN'T know that? Totally idiotic.

THAT stupidity is what led Nikita K. to believe that he could intimidate Kennedy by building the Berlin wall and putting missiles into Cuba.

The Bay of Pigs was truly a blessing for President Kennedy, the United States and the world. It taught him a valuable lesson that prevented WWIII a year later.

Here is what we NOW know about the missiles that were in Cuba in 1962---They were ARMED with nuclear warheads and personnel on the island had orders to launch if the US invaded.

AGAIN, Kennedy was lied to. But he had learned not to trust the Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs, the CIA and the war hawks in this country.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kennedy was particularly alarmed by his trigger-happy Air Force chief, cigar-chomping General Curtis LeMay, who firmly believed the U.S. should unleash a pre-emptive nuclear broadside against Russia while America still enjoyed massive arms superiority. Throughout the 13-day Cuban missile crisis, Kennedy was under relentless pressure from LeMay and nearly his entire national-security circle to "fry" Cuba, in the Air Force chief's memorable language. But J.F.K., whose only key support in the increasingly tense Cabinet Room meetings came from his brother Bobby and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, kept searching for a nonmilitary solution. When Kennedy, assiduously working the back channels to the Kremlin, finally succeeded in cutting a deal with Khrushchev, the world survived "the most dangerous moment in human history," in Schlesinger's words. But no one at the time knew just how dangerous. Years later, attending the 40th anniversary of the crisis at a conference in Havana, Schlesinger, Sorensen and McNamara were stunned to learn that if U.S. forces had attacked Cuba, Russian commanders on the island were authorized to respond with tactical and strategic nuclear missiles. The Joint Chiefs had assured Kennedy during the crisis that "no nuclear warheads were in Cuba at the time," Sorensen grimly noted. "They were wrong." If Kennedy had bowed to his military advisers' pressure, a vast swath of the urban U.S. within missile range of the Soviet installations in Cuba could have been reduced to radioactive rubble.

Read more: Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME

And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.”
President John F. Kennedy

The more you quote "Warrior For Peace"...the more I'm amazed by their ability to get the facts wrong.

The Real Cuban Missile Crisis - Benjamin Schwarz - The Atlantic

Try reading an account of the Cuban Missile Crisis from a source a little less involved in the "deification" of JFK.

I read the whole article. BTW, did you read the one I provided? There isn't anything that I find in real conflict with what I said.

JFK was not a hawk.

From your article:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although Stern and other scholars have upended the panegyrical version of events advanced by Schlesinger and other Kennedy acolytes, the revised chronicle shows that JFK’s actions in resolving the crisis—again, a crisis he had largely created—were reasonable, responsible, and courageous. Plainly shaken by the apocalyptic potentialities of the situation, Kennedy advocated, in the face of the bellicose and near-unanimous opposition of his pseudo-tough-guy advisers, accepting the missile swap that Khrushchev had proposed.

He clearly understood that history and world opinion would condemn him and his country for going to war—a war almost certain to escalate to a nuclear exchange—after the U.S.S.R. had publicly offered such a reasonable quid pro quo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Presidents come and go every 4 to 8 years, but the Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs, the CIA and the military DON'T. They are often lifetime positions.

I suggest if you really care to be a student of history, investigate what provoked Eisenhower to give his dire 'military/industrial complex' warning in his farewell address. Look into the U-2 incident on Mayday 1960. Ask why pilot, Francis Gary Powers was captured wearing a US Air Force flight suit carrying his Air Force ID. A gross violation of U-2 program protocol. The CIA and the Department of Defense (DOD) had spent millions of dollars sterilizing aircraft and equipment used in clandestine operations, so that anyone who might uncover an operation would be unable, under reasonable circumstances, to trace it positively to its true origin.

THE SABOTAGING OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
John F. Kennedy

 

[Oldstyle]

The Bay of Pigs was truly a blessing for President Kennedy, the United States and the world. It taught him a valuable lesson that prevented WWIII a year later.

Here is what we NOW know about the missiles that were in Cuba in 1962---They were ARMED with nuclear warheads and personnel on the island had orders to launch if the US invaded.

AGAIN, Kennedy was lied to. But he had learned not to trust the Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs, the CIA and the war hawks in this country.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kennedy was particularly alarmed by his trigger-happy Air Force chief, cigar-chomping General Curtis LeMay, who firmly believed the U.S. should unleash a pre-emptive nuclear broadside against Russia while America still enjoyed massive arms superiority. Throughout the 13-day Cuban missile crisis, Kennedy was under relentless pressure from LeMay and nearly his entire national-security circle to "fry" Cuba, in the Air Force chief's memorable language. But J.F.K., whose only key support in the increasingly tense Cabinet Room meetings came from his brother Bobby and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, kept searching for a nonmilitary solution. When Kennedy, assiduously working the back channels to the Kremlin, finally succeeded in cutting a deal with Khrushchev, the world survived "the most dangerous moment in human history," in Schlesinger's words. But no one at the time knew just how dangerous. Years later, attending the 40th anniversary of the crisis at a conference in Havana, Schlesinger, Sorensen and McNamara were stunned to learn that if U.S. forces had attacked Cuba, Russian commanders on the island were authorized to respond with tactical and strategic nuclear missiles. The Joint Chiefs had assured Kennedy during the crisis that "no nuclear warheads were in Cuba at the time," Sorensen grimly noted. "They were wrong." If Kennedy had bowed to his military advisers' pressure, a vast swath of the urban U.S. within missile range of the Soviet installations in Cuba could have been reduced to radioactive rubble.

Read more: Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME

And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.”
President John F. Kennedy

The more you quote "Warrior For Peace"...the more I'm amazed by their ability to get the facts wrong.

The Real Cuban Missile Crisis - Benjamin Schwarz - The Atlantic

Try reading an account of the Cuban Missile Crisis from a source a little less involved in the "deification" of JFK.

I read the whole article. BTW, did you read the one I provided? There isn't anything that I find in real conflict with what I said.

JFK was not a hawk.

From your article:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although Stern and other scholars have upended the panegyrical version of events advanced by Schlesinger and other Kennedy acolytes, the revised chronicle shows that JFK’s actions in resolving the crisis—again, a crisis he had largely created—were reasonable, responsible, and courageous. Plainly shaken by the apocalyptic potentialities of the situation, Kennedy advocated, in the face of the bellicose and near-unanimous opposition of his pseudo-tough-guy advisers, accepting the missile swap that Khrushchev had proposed.

He clearly understood that history and world opinion would condemn him and his country for going to war—a war almost certain to escalate to a nuclear exchange—after the U.S.S.R. had publicly offered such a reasonable quid pro quo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Presidents come and go every 4 to 8 years, but the Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs, the CIA and the military DON'T. They are often lifetime positions.

I suggest if you really care to be a student of history, investigate what provoked Eisenhower to give his dire 'military/industrial complex' warning in his farewell address. Look into the U-2 incident on Mayday 1960. Ask why pilot, Francis Gary Powers was captured wearing a US Air Force flight suit carrying his Air Force ID. A gross violation of U-2 program protocol. The CIA and the Department of Defense (DOD) had spent millions of dollars sterilizing aircraft and equipment used in clandestine operations, so that anyone who might uncover an operation would be unable, under reasonable circumstances, to trace it positively to its true origin.

THE SABOTAGING OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
John F. Kennedy

The truth of the matter is that Kennedy ran for office in the guise of a hawk, accusing Eisenhower and Nixon of allowing the Soviets to create a "missile gap" with the US behind and allowing communism to take root just 90 miles off the US coast in Cuba. Kennedy's hand was more or less forced by his OWN campaign rhetoric. He did in fact put missiles in Turkey aimed at the Soviets...something that prompted the Soviets to return the favor by putting nukes in Cuba. Your (and so many of the later Kennedy "myth makers") attempts to paint him as a dove simply aren't supported by Kennedy's words or his actions.

 

[Oldstyle]

The Bay of Pigs was truly a blessing for President Kennedy, the United States and the world. It taught him a valuable lesson that prevented WWIII a year later.

Here is what we NOW know about the missiles that were in Cuba in 1962---They were ARMED with nuclear warheads and personnel on the island had orders to launch if the US invaded.

AGAIN, Kennedy was lied to. But he had learned not to trust the Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs, the CIA and the war hawks in this country.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kennedy was particularly alarmed by his trigger-happy Air Force chief, cigar-chomping General Curtis LeMay, who firmly believed the U.S. should unleash a pre-emptive nuclear broadside against Russia while America still enjoyed massive arms superiority. Throughout the 13-day Cuban missile crisis, Kennedy was under relentless pressure from LeMay and nearly his entire national-security circle to "fry" Cuba, in the Air Force chief's memorable language. But J.F.K., whose only key support in the increasingly tense Cabinet Room meetings came from his brother Bobby and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, kept searching for a nonmilitary solution. When Kennedy, assiduously working the back channels to the Kremlin, finally succeeded in cutting a deal with Khrushchev, the world survived "the most dangerous moment in human history," in Schlesinger's words. But no one at the time knew just how dangerous. Years later, attending the 40th anniversary of the crisis at a conference in Havana, Schlesinger, Sorensen and McNamara were stunned to learn that if U.S. forces had attacked Cuba, Russian commanders on the island were authorized to respond with tactical and strategic nuclear missiles. The Joint Chiefs had assured Kennedy during the crisis that "no nuclear warheads were in Cuba at the time," Sorensen grimly noted. "They were wrong." If Kennedy had bowed to his military advisers' pressure, a vast swath of the urban U.S. within missile range of the Soviet installations in Cuba could have been reduced to radioactive rubble.

Read more: Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME

And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.”
President John F. Kennedy

The more you quote "Warrior For Peace"...the more I'm amazed by their ability to get the facts wrong.

The Real Cuban Missile Crisis - Benjamin Schwarz - The Atlantic

Try reading an account of the Cuban Missile Crisis from a source a little less involved in the "deification" of JFK.

I read the whole article. BTW, did you read the one I provided? There isn't anything that I find in real conflict with what I said.

JFK was not a hawk.

From your article:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although Stern and other scholars have upended the panegyrical version of events advanced by Schlesinger and other Kennedy acolytes, the revised chronicle shows that JFK’s actions in resolving the crisis—again, a crisis he had largely created—were reasonable, responsible, and courageous. Plainly shaken by the apocalyptic potentialities of the situation, Kennedy advocated, in the face of the bellicose and near-unanimous opposition of his pseudo-tough-guy advisers, accepting the missile swap that Khrushchev had proposed.

He clearly understood that history and world opinion would condemn him and his country for going to war—a war almost certain to escalate to a nuclear exchange—after the U.S.S.R. had publicly offered such a reasonable quid pro quo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Presidents come and go every 4 to 8 years, but the Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs, the CIA and the military DON'T. They are often lifetime positions.

I suggest if you really care to be a student of history, investigate what provoked Eisenhower to give his dire 'military/industrial complex' warning in his farewell address. Look into the U-2 incident on Mayday 1960. Ask why pilot, Francis Gary Powers was captured wearing a US Air Force flight suit carrying his Air Force ID. A gross violation of U-2 program protocol. The CIA and the Department of Defense (DOD) had spent millions of dollars sterilizing aircraft and equipment used in clandestine operations, so that anyone who might uncover an operation would be unable, under reasonable circumstances, to trace it positively to its true origin.

THE SABOTAGING OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
John F. Kennedy

Like anyone with half a brain wouldn't know that a U-2 belonged to the US despite all the "sterilizing" in the world, Bfgrn! Don't go getting all "tin foil hat" on me now!

 

[Sallow]

That was post was so good, Old(Never wrong)style had to respond twice.

 

[Bfgrn]

The more you quote "Warrior For Peace"...the more I'm amazed by their ability to get the facts wrong.

The Real Cuban Missile Crisis - Benjamin Schwarz - The Atlantic

Try reading an account of the Cuban Missile Crisis from a source a little less involved in the "deification" of JFK.

I read the whole article. BTW, did you read the one I provided? There isn't anything that I find in real conflict with what I said.

JFK was not a hawk.

From your article:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although Stern and other scholars have upended the panegyrical version of events advanced by Schlesinger and other Kennedy acolytes, the revised chronicle shows that JFK’s actions in resolving the crisis—again, a crisis he had largely created—were reasonable, responsible, and courageous. Plainly shaken by the apocalyptic potentialities of the situation, Kennedy advocated, in the face of the bellicose and near-unanimous opposition of his pseudo-tough-guy advisers, accepting the missile swap that Khrushchev had proposed.

He clearly understood that history and world opinion would condemn him and his country for going to war—a war almost certain to escalate to a nuclear exchange—after the U.S.S.R. had publicly offered such a reasonable quid pro quo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Presidents come and go every 4 to 8 years, but the Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs, the CIA and the military DON'T. They are often lifetime positions.

I suggest if you really care to be a student of history, investigate what provoked Eisenhower to give his dire 'military/industrial complex' warning in his farewell address. Look into the U-2 incident on Mayday 1960. Ask why pilot, Francis Gary Powers was captured wearing a US Air Force flight suit carrying his Air Force ID. A gross violation of U-2 program protocol. The CIA and the Department of Defense (DOD) had spent millions of dollars sterilizing aircraft and equipment used in clandestine operations, so that anyone who might uncover an operation would be unable, under reasonable circumstances, to trace it positively to its true origin.

THE SABOTAGING OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
John F. Kennedy

The truth of the matter is that Kennedy ran for office in the guise of a hawk, accusing Eisenhower and Nixon of allowing the Soviets to create a "missile gap" with the US behind and allowing communism to take root just 90 miles off the US coast in Cuba. Kennedy's hand was more or less forced by his OWN campaign rhetoric. He did in fact put missiles in Turkey aimed at the Soviets...something that prompted the Soviets to return the favor by putting nukes in Cuba. Your (and so many of the later Kennedy "myth makers") attempts to paint him as a dove simply aren't supported by Kennedy's words or his actions.

Yes, but it WAS merely a 'guise'. The right and ignorant neocons like Richard "Prince of Darkness" Perle HEARD only the words and rhetoric they wanted to hear. And yes, JFK outflanked Nixon and the right on national security and cold war rhetoric. But as I pointed out before, none of his actions were hawkish...NONE.

AGAIN, the missile agreement with Turkey was signed in 1959.

So, PLEASE point out what ACTIONS President Kennedy initiated would make him a hawk? Was it refusing to use the military to invade Cuba during the Bay of Pigs invasion? Was it refusing to use the military to invade Cuba during the Cuban missile crisis?? Was it refusing to use the military to retaliate when the Berlin Wall went up???

I will be waiting............

The United States, as the world knows, will never start a war. We do not want a war. We do not now expect a war. This generation of Americans has already had enough — more than enough — of war and hate and oppression. We shall be prepared if others wish it. We shall be alert to try to stop it. But we shall also do our part to build a world of peace where the weak are safe and the strong are just. We are not helpless before that task or hopeless of its success.
President John F. Kennedy - Address at The American University, Washington D.C. (10 June 1963)

 

[Bfgrn]

The more you quote "Warrior For Peace"...the more I'm amazed by their ability to get the facts wrong.

The Real Cuban Missile Crisis - Benjamin Schwarz - The Atlantic

Try reading an account of the Cuban Missile Crisis from a source a little less involved in the "deification" of JFK.

I read the whole article. BTW, did you read the one I provided? There isn't anything that I find in real conflict with what I said.

JFK was not a hawk.

From your article:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although Stern and other scholars have upended the panegyrical version of events advanced by Schlesinger and other Kennedy acolytes, the revised chronicle shows that JFK’s actions in resolving the crisis—again, a crisis he had largely created—were reasonable, responsible, and courageous. Plainly shaken by the apocalyptic potentialities of the situation, Kennedy advocated, in the face of the bellicose and near-unanimous opposition of his pseudo-tough-guy advisers, accepting the missile swap that Khrushchev had proposed.

He clearly understood that history and world opinion would condemn him and his country for going to war—a war almost certain to escalate to a nuclear exchange—after the U.S.S.R. had publicly offered such a reasonable quid pro quo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Presidents come and go every 4 to 8 years, but the Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs, the CIA and the military DON'T. They are often lifetime positions.

I suggest if you really care to be a student of history, investigate what provoked Eisenhower to give his dire 'military/industrial complex' warning in his farewell address. Look into the U-2 incident on Mayday 1960. Ask why pilot, Francis Gary Powers was captured wearing a US Air Force flight suit carrying his Air Force ID. A gross violation of U-2 program protocol. The CIA and the Department of Defense (DOD) had spent millions of dollars sterilizing aircraft and equipment used in clandestine operations, so that anyone who might uncover an operation would be unable, under reasonable circumstances, to trace it positively to its true origin.

THE SABOTAGING OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
John F. Kennedy

Like anyone with half a brain wouldn't know that a U-2 belonged to the US despite all the "sterilizing" in the world, Bfgrn! Don't go getting all "tin foil hat" on me now!

There is a lot more to the U-2 incident. What it boils down to is two weeks before a peace talk summit scheduled in Paris between Eisenhower and Khruschev the CIA sabotaged our nation.

The U2 Files: Mayday, 1960

 

[Oldstyle]

I read the whole article. BTW, did you read the one I provided? There isn't anything that I find in real conflict with what I said.

JFK was not a hawk.

From your article:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although Stern and other scholars have upended the panegyrical version of events advanced by Schlesinger and other Kennedy acolytes, the revised chronicle shows that JFK’s actions in resolving the crisis—again, a crisis he had largely created—were reasonable, responsible, and courageous. Plainly shaken by the apocalyptic potentialities of the situation, Kennedy advocated, in the face of the bellicose and near-unanimous opposition of his pseudo-tough-guy advisers, accepting the missile swap that Khrushchev had proposed.

He clearly understood that history and world opinion would condemn him and his country for going to war—a war almost certain to escalate to a nuclear exchange—after the U.S.S.R. had publicly offered such a reasonable quid pro quo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Presidents come and go every 4 to 8 years, but the Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs, the CIA and the military DON'T. They are often lifetime positions.

I suggest if you really care to be a student of history, investigate what provoked Eisenhower to give his dire 'military/industrial complex' warning in his farewell address. Look into the U-2 incident on Mayday 1960. Ask why pilot, Francis Gary Powers was captured wearing a US Air Force flight suit carrying his Air Force ID. A gross violation of U-2 program protocol. The CIA and the Department of Defense (DOD) had spent millions of dollars sterilizing aircraft and equipment used in clandestine operations, so that anyone who might uncover an operation would be unable, under reasonable circumstances, to trace it positively to its true origin.

THE SABOTAGING OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
John F. Kennedy

The truth of the matter is that Kennedy ran for office in the guise of a hawk, accusing Eisenhower and Nixon of allowing the Soviets to create a "missile gap" with the US behind and allowing communism to take root just 90 miles off the US coast in Cuba. Kennedy's hand was more or less forced by his OWN campaign rhetoric. He did in fact put missiles in Turkey aimed at the Soviets...something that prompted the Soviets to return the favor by putting nukes in Cuba. Your (and so many of the later Kennedy "myth makers") attempts to paint him as a dove simply aren't supported by Kennedy's words or his actions.

Yes, but it WAS merely a 'guise'. The right and ignorant neocons like Richard "Prince of Darkness" Perle HEARD only the words and rhetoric they wanted to hear. And yes, JFK outflanked Nixon and the right on national security and cold war rhetoric. But as I pointed out before, none of his actions were hawkish...NONE.

AGAIN, the missile agreement with Turkey was signed in 1959.

So, PLEASE point out what ACTIONS President Kennedy initiated would make him a hawk? Was it refusing to use the military to invade Cuba during the Bay of Pigs invasion? Was it refusing to use the military to invade Cuba during the Cuban missile crisis?? Was it refusing to use the military to retaliate when the Berlin Wall went up???

I will be waiting............

The United States, as the world knows, will never start a war. We do not want a war. We do not now expect a war. This generation of Americans has already had enough — more than enough — of war and hate and oppression. We shall be prepared if others wish it. We shall be alert to try to stop it. But we shall also do our part to build a world of peace where the weak are safe and the strong are just. We are not helpless before that task or hopeless of its success.
President John F. Kennedy - Address at The American University, Washington D.C. (10 June 1963)

Kennedy DID use the military during the Bay of Pigs...the main reason the operation turned into the fiasco that it did was that he only used HALF the air power that was originally allotted to take out Castro's fighter aircraft AND THAT DIDN'T DO THE JOB! Remember those scathing comments made about Kennedy by high ranking military officials you provided earlier? The REASON they disliked Kennedy was because he changed his mind at the last moment and only allowed 8 bombers to be used instead of the 16 that the military thought would be needed. The reason they didn't like Kennedy was that they found him to be indecisive.

Kennedy DID use the military during the Cuban Missile Crisis...he did so when he imposed an armed blockade of shipping in International Waters. Not only did he USE the military...he used them in a totally illegal action.

As for using the military to retaliate for the Berlin Wall? What pray tell COULD Kennedy have done militarily to halt the construction of a wall inside of communist controlled Eastern Europe? Your contention that non action on THAT proves that Kennedy was a dove is amusing.

 

[Oldstyle]

What I find even more amusing is the narrative that Kennedy would have stopped the Vietnam War.

Kennedy escalated the war. It was Nixon (the liberal's Anti-Christ!) who stopped the war.

 

[Bfgrn]

The truth of the matter is that Kennedy ran for office in the guise of a hawk, accusing Eisenhower and Nixon of allowing the Soviets to create a "missile gap" with the US behind and allowing communism to take root just 90 miles off the US coast in Cuba. Kennedy's hand was more or less forced by his OWN campaign rhetoric. He did in fact put missiles in Turkey aimed at the Soviets...something that prompted the Soviets to return the favor by putting nukes in Cuba. Your (and so many of the later Kennedy "myth makers") attempts to paint him as a dove simply aren't supported by Kennedy's words or his actions.

Yes, but it WAS merely a 'guise'. The right and ignorant neocons like Richard "Prince of Darkness" Perle HEARD only the words and rhetoric they wanted to hear. And yes, JFK outflanked Nixon and the right on national security and cold war rhetoric. But as I pointed out before, none of his actions were hawkish...NONE.

AGAIN, the missile agreement with Turkey was signed in 1959.

So, PLEASE point out what ACTIONS President Kennedy initiated would make him a hawk? Was it refusing to use the military to invade Cuba during the Bay of Pigs invasion? Was it refusing to use the military to invade Cuba during the Cuban missile crisis?? Was it refusing to use the military to retaliate when the Berlin Wall went up???

I will be waiting............

The United States, as the world knows, will never start a war. We do not want a war. We do not now expect a war. This generation of Americans has already had enough — more than enough — of war and hate and oppression. We shall be prepared if others wish it. We shall be alert to try to stop it. But we shall also do our part to build a world of peace where the weak are safe and the strong are just. We are not helpless before that task or hopeless of its success.
President John F. Kennedy - Address at The American University, Washington D.C. (10 June 1963)

Kennedy DID use the military during the Bay of Pigs...the main reason the operation turned into the fiasco that it did was that he only used HALF the air power that was originally allotted to take out Castro's fighter aircraft AND THAT DIDN'T DO THE JOB! Remember those scathing comments made about Kennedy by high ranking military officials you provided earlier? The REASON they disliked Kennedy was because he changed his mind at the last moment and only allowed 8 bombers to be used instead of the 16 that the military thought would be needed. The reason they didn't like Kennedy was that they found him to be indecisive.

Kennedy DID use the military during the Cuban Missile Crisis...he did so when he imposed an armed blockade of shipping in International Waters. Not only did he USE the military...he used them in a totally illegal action.

As for using the military to retaliate for the Berlin Wall? What pray tell COULD Kennedy have done militarily to halt the construction of a wall inside of communist controlled Eastern Europe? Your contention that non action on THAT proves that Kennedy was a dove is amusing.

AGAIN, I told you I have let you slide. Not anymore...link up buster...

Your argument has failed. Admit it. Hawks, don't send less, they send MORE. Hawks don't opt for a blockade when all the military advisers wanted to 'fry' Cuba, AND...A 'hawk' is not indecisive.

 

[Bfgrn]

What I find even more amusing is the narrative that Kennedy would have stopped the Vietnam War.

Kennedy escalated the war. It was Nixon (the liberal's Anti-Christ!) who stopped the war.

And you said you were a student of history...you LIED. Johnson escalated the Vietnam War and Nixon escalated the bombings.

 

[Oldstyle]

What I find even more amusing is the narrative that Kennedy would have stopped the Vietnam War.

Kennedy escalated the war. It was Nixon (the liberal's Anti-Christ!) who stopped the war.

And you said you were a student of history...you LIED. Johnson escalated the Vietnam War and Nixon escalated the bombings.

Yes, Johnson escalated the war and Nixon escalated the bombings. Kennedy ALSO escalated the war and Nixon ALSO ended the war. So where was it that I lied?

 

[Sallow]

What I find even more amusing is the narrative that Kennedy would have stopped the Vietnam War.

Kennedy escalated the war. It was Nixon (the liberal's Anti-Christ!) who stopped the war.

Nixon "stopped" the war after escalating it way passed Johnson and secretly bombing Cambodia and Laos and helping the Khmer Rouge come to power.

His actions likely caused the deaths of over 2 million people.

Seriously..do you actually think about this stuff before you post?

 

[Oldstyle]

Yes, but it WAS merely a 'guise'. The right and ignorant neocons like Richard "Prince of Darkness" Perle HEARD only the words and rhetoric they wanted to hear. And yes, JFK outflanked Nixon and the right on national security and cold war rhetoric. But as I pointed out before, none of his actions were hawkish...NONE.

AGAIN, the missile agreement with Turkey was signed in 1959.

So, PLEASE point out what ACTIONS President Kennedy initiated would make him a hawk? Was it refusing to use the military to invade Cuba during the Bay of Pigs invasion? Was it refusing to use the military to invade Cuba during the Cuban missile crisis?? Was it refusing to use the military to retaliate when the Berlin Wall went up???

I will be waiting............

The United States, as the world knows, will never start a war. We do not want a war. We do not now expect a war. This generation of Americans has already had enough — more than enough — of war and hate and oppression. We shall be prepared if others wish it. We shall be alert to try to stop it. But we shall also do our part to build a world of peace where the weak are safe and the strong are just. We are not helpless before that task or hopeless of its success.
President John F. Kennedy - Address at The American University, Washington D.C. (10 June 1963)

Kennedy DID use the military during the Bay of Pigs...the main reason the operation turned into the fiasco that it did was that he only used HALF the air power that was originally allotted to take out Castro's fighter aircraft AND THAT DIDN'T DO THE JOB! Remember those scathing comments made about Kennedy by high ranking military officials you provided earlier? The REASON they disliked Kennedy was because he changed his mind at the last moment and only allowed 8 bombers to be used instead of the 16 that the military thought would be needed. The reason they didn't like Kennedy was that they found him to be indecisive.

Kennedy DID use the military during the Cuban Missile Crisis...he did so when he imposed an armed blockade of shipping in International Waters. Not only did he USE the military...he used them in a totally illegal action.

As for using the military to retaliate for the Berlin Wall? What pray tell COULD Kennedy have done militarily to halt the construction of a wall inside of communist controlled Eastern Europe? Your contention that non action on THAT proves that Kennedy was a dove is amusing.

AGAIN, I told you I have let you slide. Not anymore...link up buster...

Your argument has failed. Admit it. Hawks, don't send less, they send MORE. Hawks don't opt for a blockade when all the military advisers wanted to 'fry' Cuba, AND...A 'hawk' is not indecisive.

http://ibdogs.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/bayofpigs7.pdf

The Bay of Pigs - John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum

#4: Kennedy?s Failure at the Bay of Pigs (Top 10 Mistakes by U.S. Presidents) | Britannica Blog

Cuba: The Bay of Pigs Invasion

History News Network | Failures of the Presidents: JFK's Bay of Pigs Disaster

Your problem, Bfgrn...is that you've chosen to believe the Kennedy "myth" that was created posthumously by people like Arthur Schlesinger, who painted JFK in an absurdly flattering manner.

 

[Oldstyle]

What I find even more amusing is the narrative that Kennedy would have stopped the Vietnam War.

Kennedy escalated the war. It was Nixon (the liberal's Anti-Christ!) who stopped the war.

Nixon "stopped" the war after escalating it way passed Johnson and secretly bombing Cambodia and Laos and helping the Khmer Rouge come to power.

His actions likely caused the deaths of over 2 million people.

Seriously..do you actually think about this stuff before you post?

Nixon helped the Khmer Rouge come to power and is thus responsible for the millions of deaths that occurred subsequently? REALLY? LOL Gotta love you liberals when it comes to excusing the "excesses" of Communists! The Khmer Rouge were backed by the North Vietnamese. Communists are responsible for Pol Pot and the millions of murders he committed.

Nixon ended the Vietnam war. Not Kennedy...not Johnson. I know that's "inconvenient" for you uber libs to deal with but it's what happened.

 

[Sallow]

What I find even more amusing is the narrative that Kennedy would have stopped the Vietnam War.

Kennedy escalated the war. It was Nixon (the liberal's Anti-Christ!) who stopped the war.

Nixon "stopped" the war after escalating it way passed Johnson and secretly bombing Cambodia and Laos and helping the Khmer Rouge come to power.

His actions likely caused the deaths of over 2 million people.

Seriously..do you actually think about this stuff before you post?

Nixon helped the Khmer Rouge come to power and is thus responsible for the millions of deaths that occurred subsequently? REALLY? LOL Gotta love you liberals when it comes to excusing the "excesses" of Communists! The Khmer Rouge were backed by the North Vietnamese. Communists are responsible for Pol Pot and the millions of murders he committed.

Nixon ended the Vietnam war. Not Kennedy...not Johnson. I know that's "inconvenient" for you uber libs to deal with but it's what happened.

Even without including the Khmer Rouge, Nixon is responsible for about a million or so deaths.

That's ALOT of people.

The US dropped more bombs on Vietnam than it dropped in all conflicts prior, combined.

It's just amazing how batshit crazy this nation went.

 

[Sallow]

Additionally, yeah..Nixon initially SUPPORTED the Khmer Rouge.

 

[Oldstyle]

Additionally, yeah..Nixon initially SUPPORTED the Khmer Rouge.

Nixon supported the Khmer Rouge? When did this take place? I'd give up on this string if I were you, Sallow. Your lack of knowledge is getting embarrassing.