Pissed off about progress with North Korea? You might be a partisan hack.

[iceberg]

he gave them $400m and got hostages back. he paid a ransom. no way around it.
he setup a treaty then set it aside to allow them to launder money. no way around it.

if trump did either of these things, you'd shit kittens in anger.

And if Trump did either of those things you would still worship him


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Except Obama didn't. Fox is lying to him. Trump is lying to him. Why can't these people turn on NPR for a day?

Because NPR was taken over by filthy liberals who lie through their teeth?

why can't you watch MY news? why can't you see it MY way???

why can't people step outside their own views for a bit and look around?

Bc they can’t face the reality that maybe they don’t know what they’re talking about. Some people don’t want to be proven wrong so they believe they’re NEVER wrong, go to pains to remain ALWAYS right, even when it’s clear they aren’t right. It’s a dangerously ignorant mindset to have. I’ve been dealing with a poster in another thread who suffers from it. They deflect, redirect and outright ignore any challenges to their claims. It’s exhausting as hell.

to me, it's not about being wrong, but learning what is right.

basing right and wrong off how you feel about someone is the pure definition of insecurity.

 

[g5000]

Trump is an appeaser and an idiot. He came into office and drastically inflamed the situation, and now he wants credit for not turning Korea back into a hot war? Really?

The situation hasn't even returned to where it was before he came along.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Ignorance, in this case, is a choice. Maybe go back to 2011 - 2016 and see how relations between NK and the US were going, then come back here and explain to me how Trump’s meeting with KJU isn’t progress.

Oh, let's go farther back than that!

1992: JOINT DECLARATION OF SOUTH AND NORTH KOREA ON THE DENUCLEARIZATION OF THE KOREAN PENINSULA

In order to eliminate the danger of nuclear war through the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula, to create conditions and an environment favourable to peace and the peaceful unification of Korea, and thus to contribute to the peace and security of Asia and the world, Declare as follows;

1. South and North Korea shall not test, manufacture, produce, receive, possess, store, deploy or use nuclear weapons.

2. South and North Korea shall use nuclear energy solely for peaceful purposes.

3. South and North Korea shall not possess nuclear reprocessing and uranium enrichment facilities.


1993: Joint Statement of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and the United States of America

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea and the United States of America held governmental-level talks in New York from the 2nd through the 11th of June, 1993.

<snip>

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea and the United States have agreed to principles of:

- Assurances against the threat and use of force, including nuclear weapons;

- Peace and security in a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula, including impartial application of fullscope safeguards, mutual respect for each other's sovereignty, and non-interference in each other's internal affairs;


2005: Joint Statement of the Fourth Round of the Six-Party Talks

The Six Parties unanimously reaffirmed that the goal of the Six-Party Talks is the verifiable denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula in a peaceful manner.

A year later, North Korea detonated their first nuclear weapon.


2007: Six-Party Talks -- Second-Phase Action
:

I. On Denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula

1. The DPRK agreed to disable all existing nuclear facilities subject to abandonment under the September 2005 Joint Statement and the February 13 agreement.



So the idea that Trump made "progress" is hilarious. It's same old-same old bullshit.

Hope that puts your erection in perspective.


Trump rolled over. He agreed to stop US military exercises in the South in exchange for....nothing.

And he gave a tin pot murderous dictator prestige by allowing him to share a stage with the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth.

/----/ Yeah, because the US always sent NK $$$$$$$$$$$$ to play nice in the sandbox. Trump gave NK nothing.
Clinton Approves a Plan to Give Aid to North Koreans

By DAVID E. SANGER and SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES

WASHINGTON, Oct. 18 -- President Clinton approved a plan today to arrange more than $4 billion in energy aid to North Korea during the next decade in return for a commitment from the country's hard-line Communist leadership to freeze and gradually dismantle its nuclear weapons development program.

 

[BookShaka]

Trump and Fox News aren’t the only liars you need to worry about. The sooner you figure that out, the better. It’s obvious you’re incapable of looking at things objectively, thinking a source’s bias tells more of the story than the story itself. Time to wake up.

I used to believe only what sources that I agreed with told me... until I realized what a huge mistake that was. Just bc you share a organization’s viewpoints doesn’t mean that organization isn’t ridden with propaganda. Once I realized how hard the truth is to find, I’m forced to take most everything with a grain of salt. Try reading a fact-check article with a critical eye, preferably one you don’t agree with, and you’ll see how easily the masses are manipulated to believe certain narratives.

Except Obama didn't. Fox is lying to him. Trump is lying to him. Why can't these people turn on NPR for a day?

Because NPR was taken over by filthy liberals who lie through their teeth?

why can't you watch MY news? why can't you see it MY way???

why can't people step outside their own views for a bit and look around?

My way? Facts are not anyone's way. Fox lies to you. Trump lies to you. The facts of the Iran deal are not as Trump or Fox has portrayed them. I'm sorry if this upsets you, but it is the truth and that is sometimes uncomfortable.

Lib please $400 million airlifted to Iran followed immediately by a hostage release get a grip on reality.

Yes, please keep making the point for me...that you believe the lies.

Trump’s Lies vs. Your Brain

 

[g5000]

The ignorant rube herd thinks this talk about denuclearization is something new and historic. That somehow it means progress.

Trump and his propagandists rely on that ignorance. Heavily.

The subject of denunclearization has been in every agreement with North Korea for at least the past quarter century.

Meanwhile, North Korea went on to develop and test nuclear weapons. And, despite Trump's blustering bullshit that it would never happen, they went on to test ICBMs capable of reaching the United States. And that happened on Trump's watch.

But all it took was for Kim to grab two more hostages on Trump's watch and then give them back to turn Trump into his lickspittle.


BEFORE:

AFTER:

Trump praises Kim Jong Un as 'very honorable'

 

[TNHarley]

Trump is an appeaser and an idiot. He came into office and drastically inflamed the situation, and now he wants credit for not turning Korea back into a hot war? Really?

The situation hasn't even returned to where it was before he came along.

 

[BookShaka]

Yeah bc that was going so well.

Verification Process in Iran Deal Is Questioned by Some Experts

Iran Breaches the Nuclear Deal and UN Resolutions for Third Time | HuffPost

Iran once again exceeds a nuclear deal limit: IAEA report

Obama Administration Loosens Nuclear Deal After Iran Violates It

Give credit where it is due. This is a good thing.

What progress?

Please, point it out.

first - why don't you and all those saying nothing was done tell us what you'd have done and what you consider progress so we can address from that point of view. all you're going to do here is go "no that's not progress!" and be a partisan hack at this point.

How about a denuclearization agreement with inspections and verifications like we had in Iran until Cheeto Jesus bless it up?

 

[BookShaka]

Agreements that were violated. Inspections that the US had to give notice of before they could be carried out, but let’s not get into specifics, right? Someone might learn something.

Give credit where it is due. This is a good thing.

What progress?

Please, point it out.

Well, a U.S president met with the leader of NK for the first time in history, and it went well. There's an unprecedented willingness to cooperate from North Korea. I think it's for real this time. You can try to minimize it all you want, but the truth is it's looking very positive.

What do you put the odds at that NK hands over their nukes?


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better than iran.

In Iran we had inspections, clear goals, and signed binding agreements with many other nations involved.

The substanceless reality show we just went through has none of that.

 

[LoneLaugher]

And if Trump did either of those things you would still worship him


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Except Obama didn't. Fox is lying to him. Trump is lying to him. Why can't these people turn on NPR for a day?

Because NPR was taken over by filthy liberals who lie through their teeth?

why can't you watch MY news? why can't you see it MY way???

why can't people step outside their own views for a bit and look around?

Bc they can’t face the reality that maybe they don’t know what they’re talking about. Some people don’t want to be proven wrong so they believe they’re NEVER wrong, go to pains to remain ALWAYS right, even when it’s clear they aren’t right. It’s a dangerously ignorant mindset to have. I’ve been dealing with a poster in another thread who suffers from it. They deflect, redirect and outright ignore any challenges to their claims. It’s exhausting as hell.

to me, it's not about being wrong, but learning what is right.

basing right and wrong off how you feel about someone is the pure definition of insecurity.

THAT is exactly what the president does. That is why we can hardly find comfort in anything he says or does.

The man has not earned the confidence that is afforded him by you and others here. It is fucking weird.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Find me some NatSec experts who say that Trump just made a deal that is better than the Iran deal.

Thanks.

 

[BookShaka]

The problem is people on both sides are judging the agreement when there’s literally been a day and a half since it was signed. Only time will tell how well it works. Criticism of the points of the deal make sense, but criticism of the outcome before there has been any is just plain foolish.

Notice the difference between Trump and Obama. Obama's lame half measures on Iran kicking the nuclear can down the road vs Trump total denuclearization of NK. Poor Obama president Trump schools him again.

Please show me the denuclearization deal tRump has with NK.

Here ya go...

Read the full text of the Trump-Kim agreement here

"Convinced that the establishment of new U.S.-DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean Peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following:

1. The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new U.S.-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.
2. The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.
3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
4. The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified."

Of course the term "denuclearization" requires clarification because it's unclear whether or not the DPRK defines the term that same way as the U.S. defines it and this agreement is vague with respect to details like the specific steps to be taken, the timetable and so forth, but it's a start.

 

[BookShaka]

You’re just as bad for condemning the deal a failure without giving it any sort of chance... back up a bit. You don’t have proof the deal will be a horrible failure just like your opposition doesn’t have proof it will be a major success. These are opinions and nothing more.

Yet Obama and every president since failed to do what Trump has done. I hope it gives all of you heart attacks. Never have I seen such SCUM hate success like you animals do.

What has Trump done exactly?



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The pretending never ends with you animals.

So you cannot answer the question, no surprise


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what was accomplished? is that your question? How about removing nukes from the Korean peninsula? How about bringing the NK people into the 21st century? How about finally ending the Korean war? How about finding a way to work with the Chinese for the benefit of the entire world?

You are a disgrace to the gator nation.

This is the problem with our country today, in our society of everyone gets a trophy people think that just talking about something is the same as that thing happening.

No nukes have been removed from NK, there are no plans to remove nukes from NK and NK has not agreed to have such a thing happen in the future.

But snowflakes like you think those things have already been accomplished.

It is scary that people like you get to vote


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[LoneLaugher]

The problem is people on both sides are judging the agreement when there’s literally been a day and a half since it was signed. Only time will tell how well it works. Criticism of the points of the deal make sense, but criticism of the outcome before there has been any is just plain foolish.

Notice the difference between Trump and Obama. Obama's lame half measures on Iran kicking the nuclear can down the road vs Trump total denuclearization of NK. Poor Obama president Trump schools him again.

Please show me the denuclearization deal tRump has with NK.

Here ya go...

Read the full text of the Trump-Kim agreement here

"Convinced that the establishment of new U.S.-DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean Peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following:

1. The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new U.S.-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.
2. The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.
3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
4. The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified."

Of course the term "denuclearization" requires clarification because it's unclear whether or not the DPRK defines the term that same way as the U.S. defines it and this agreement is vague with respect to details like the specific steps to be taken, the timetable and so forth, but it's a start.

There was no agreement. What was signed was non-binding.

Why do you put your replies ABOVE the quote you are replying to?

 

[NightFox]

Here ya go...

Read the full text of the Trump-Kim agreement here

"Convinced that the establishment of new U.S.-DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean Peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following:

1. The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new U.S.-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.
2. The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.
3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
4. The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified."

Of course the term "denuclearization" requires clarification because it's unclear whether or not the DPRK defines the term that same way as the U.S. defines it and this agreement is vague with respect to details like the specific steps to be taken, the timetable and so forth, but it's a start.

It's not anything but hot air. There's nothing there.

Can you at least attempt to be rational? Just for a change of pace.....

There's nothing there. Similar agreements were signed in 1994, 2003, and 2005 and the NKs never stood by any of them. We also managed to get those signed without giving any major concessions. This is nothing more than hot air. A photo op. Two of the biggest liars on the planet just signed an agreement with no specifics, no timetable, and no realistic goals.

Woohoo.

Well thanks for attempting to be rational for a change, however you're simply regurgitating partisan talking points and completely ignoring the circumstances surrounding this agreement.

The fact of the matter is, it's a step forward from where we were less than a year ago, a tiny step to be sure but progress is progress and Daffy Don deserves at least a modicum of credit for taking it. We'll see what happens from here, it would behoove American Citizens to be as supportive as possible to improve the odds of a positive outcome for this process, however I know for some it's WAY too much to ask to hope for concrete progress towards peace when the POTUS has the wrong letter behind his name.

Lol, I'm telling the truth. You are entitled to your own opinion, but there's only one set of facts.

Uh-huh, unfortunately that set seems to keep eluding you, might have something to do with the propaganda drenched, partisan fog surrounding your brain.

Here's a hint: Then isn't now and the DPRK finds itself with not only with different leadership but also a completely different set of diplomatic, economic and military circumstances.

 

[BookShaka]

I don’t know if there’s proof or not that Iran’s military sites were strictly off limits. Iran said they were, the US said they weren’t, and a whole bunch of people in the middle have different claims.

Access To Military Sites Debated As White House Reconsiders Iran Nuclear Deal

Give credit where it is due. This is a good thing.

What progress?

Please, point it out.

first - why don't you and all those saying nothing was done tell us what you'd have done and what you consider progress so we can address from that point of view. all you're going to do here is go "no that's not progress!" and be a partisan hack at this point.

How about a denuclearization agreement with inspections and verifications like we had in Iran until Cheeto Jesus bless it up?

We had nothing of the sort in Iran. Military bases were kept off limits.

That is exactly what we had in Iran, and military bases were not off limits.

 

[miketx]

The problem is people on both sides are judging the agreement when there’s literally been a day and a half since it was signed. Only time will tell how well it works. Criticism of the points of the deal make sense, but criticism of the outcome before there has been any is just plain foolish.

Notice the difference between Trump and Obama. Obama's lame half measures on Iran kicking the nuclear can down the road vs Trump total denuclearization of NK. Poor Obama president Trump schools him again.

Please show me the denuclearization deal tRump has with NK.

Here ya go...

Read the full text of the Trump-Kim agreement here

"Convinced that the establishment of new U.S.-DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean Peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following:

1. The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new U.S.-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.
2. The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.
3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
4. The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified."

Of course the term "denuclearization" requires clarification because it's unclear whether or not the DPRK defines the term that same way as the U.S. defines it and this agreement is vague with respect to details like the specific steps to be taken, the timetable and so forth, but it's a start.

There was no agreement. What was signed was non-binding.

Why do you put your replies ABOVE the quote you are replying to?

You are a pathetic liar. Kim agreed to end the nukes.

 

[BookShaka]

Bc it’s easier that way with my device. Why do you put your quote below the one you’re replying to? Why does it matter? Who the fuck cares?

The problem is people on both sides are judging the agreement when there’s literally been a day and a half since it was signed. Only time will tell how well it works. Criticism of the points of the deal make sense, but criticism of the outcome before there has been any is just plain foolish.

Notice the difference between Trump and Obama. Obama's lame half measures on Iran kicking the nuclear can down the road vs Trump total denuclearization of NK. Poor Obama president Trump schools him again.

Please show me the denuclearization deal tRump has with NK.

Here ya go...

Read the full text of the Trump-Kim agreement here

"Convinced that the establishment of new U.S.-DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean Peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following:

1. The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new U.S.-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.
2. The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.
3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
4. The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified."

Of course the term "denuclearization" requires clarification because it's unclear whether or not the DPRK defines the term that same way as the U.S. defines it and this agreement is vague with respect to details like the specific steps to be taken, the timetable and so forth, but it's a start.

There was no agreement. What was signed was non-binding.

Why do you put your replies ABOVE the quote you are replying to?

 

[miketx]

Bc it’s easier that way with my device. Why do you put your quote below the one you’re replying to? Why does it matter? Who the fuck cares?

The problem is people on both sides are judging the agreement when there’s literally been a day and a half since it was signed. Only time will tell how well it works. Criticism of the points of the deal make sense, but criticism of the outcome before there has been any is just plain foolish.

Notice the difference between Trump and Obama. Obama's lame half measures on Iran kicking the nuclear can down the road vs Trump total denuclearization of NK. Poor Obama president Trump schools him again.

Please show me the denuclearization deal tRump has with NK.

Here ya go...

Read the full text of the Trump-Kim agreement here

"Convinced that the establishment of new U.S.-DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean Peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following:

1. The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new U.S.-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.
2. The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.
3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
4. The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified."

Of course the term "denuclearization" requires clarification because it's unclear whether or not the DPRK defines the term that same way as the U.S. defines it and this agreement is vague with respect to details like the specific steps to be taken, the timetable and so forth, but it's a start.

There was no agreement. What was signed was non-binding.

Why do you put your replies ABOVE the quote you are replying to?

Because the buttstain liberals have to have some reason to attack you if they cannot refute you.

 

[BookShaka]

Not living under a rock, just believing whatever makes them comfortable and outright denying everything else.

What do you put the odds at that NK hands over their nukes?


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better than iran.

In Iran we had inspections, clear goals, and signed binding agreements with many other nations involved.

The substanceless reality show we just went through has none of that.

LOL, obozo gave Iran billions of dollars and got nothing in return, their nuke program continues today with our money, they continue to fund terrorism with our money, thanks obozo you fricken traitor.

Nobody gave Iran any money.

Their nuclear program was verifiably stopped.

The Great tRumpkin has now given the free reign to pursue the bomb.

NK already has bombs and all tRump did was use them for a photo op.

are you living under a rock? Obama sent billions of dollars and euros on pallets to Iran on a secret plane. That is an established fact. Iran has continued to develop nukes using our money thanks to obozo the muslim from Kenya.

We will see what happens to NK's nukes, if they remain, L'il Kim is gone and he knows that.

 

[BookShaka]

The downside is Trump was involved. If Obama had done this same thing, the same people who are criticizing it would be celebrating it, and those who are celebrating it would be criticizing it.

Give credit where it is due. This is a good thing.

Meh, not that impressed with a photo op that elevates a toad. (I mean Kim, not Trump, but I guess maybe two toads.)

It really doesn't solve the underlying problem.

It's a first step.....Obama gave cash for nothing.
Clinton would have wanted regime change
We got prisoners freed and are starting a dialog......there is no downside.