Please critique my proposed policy to ensure an honest vote

[schmidlap]

Decades ago there was cheating and hanky panky in elections, but never did we have an electorate as suspicious and convinced of malfeasance or as fearful that elections can be stolen as we have now. Without faith that elections are fair and honest, it is unlikely that our constitutional republic will survive.

So I propose what I believe is a system/policy that, if implemented, will ensure roughly 99.9% honest and fair elections. Do you agree? If not please state your reason why it would be bad policy.

PHOTO ID:
Any person who is unable to secure a certified Driver's License w/photo or other valid photo ID may provide proof of citizenship and residence and apply for a free photo ID in the city or county where the person resides.

REGISTRATION:
All U.S. citizens who are not felons and who are sufficiently mentally competent to register to vote via their own intentional effort should go to the city or county clerk's office where they reside and:
1. Provide certified photo ID, proof of citizenship, proof of home residency, proof of age.
2. Anyone who moves out of his/her precinct must re-register in order to be allowed to vote.
3. Voter registration must be done 2 to 6 weeks prior to the election so that the person can be added to the official voter rolls.
4. Any person not voting in either the primary or general election in any given election year will be dropped from the voter rolls and must re-register to vote.
5. Some provision will be made for those who otherwise qualify but cannot physically go to the city or county clerk's office to register but the registration must be taken by a person with the city or county clerk's office.
5. Anyone falsifying his/her voter registration or knowingly accepting or creating fake registrations is subject to prosecution for a felony offense and, if convicted, will be subject to fine and/or imprisonment.

ELECTIONS:
1. All persons physically able must go to the polls in their assigned precinct personally and present positive certified photo ID and certify under oath that they live at the address shown on their voter registration. Early voting if allowed in any state may not exceed ten days prior to election day and must include all safeguards in place on election day.
2. Those who must or need to vote absentee will apply for an absentee ballot with a signed and notarized application.
3. The completed absentee ballot must be delivered to the precinct polling location no later than the close of the polls on election day. No ballots will be accepted from any source after the polls close. Every absentee ballot should be able to be matched with a notarized application for the ballot. No person having been issued an absentee ballot may vote by any means other than that absentee ballot.
4. Anyone voting in somebody else's name or hindering the timely delivery of absentee ballots to the polling place or discouraging or hindering people's ability to get to the polls will be subject to prosecution for a felony with penalties fines and/or imprisonment.
5. Only properly registered persons living within the United States and/or its territories are eligible to vote.

COUNTING THE VOTE:
1. All interested parties must be allowed to have representatives present and able to observe the counting process. Those representatives must be allowed to remain until the counting is completed and will be given a certified document verifying what the final count is.
2. All ballots will be via paper ballots and hand counted. Counting will continue without interruption, even if people have to be replaced, until all ballots are counted and the results provided to the city or county officials as well as to the poll watchers.

Recognizing that for every rule, there can be necessary exceptions for truly valid reasons such as natural disasters or whatever, the above should insure that never again will any person have to wonder whether an election was stolen.

Paranoidal losers will deny elections, regardless of how many bureaucratic impediments to voting are contrived. If they lose and can't handle it, they will blame fake i.d.s, evil voting machines, bogus bamboo balloters, meddlesome Italian satellites, etc. etc., etc.

I would facilitate participatory democracy by mail-in voting, early voting, convenient drop boxes, and efficient, intimidation-free in-person venues, all via paper ballots that can be scrupulously audited and recounted, as well as allowing for court appeals in every jurisdiction if the results of election are challenged with credible evidence.

Despite all the fake claims of voter fraud spewing from highly dubious sources in 2020, none that could effect the outcome could ever be found anywhere, the Republican Director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency in the United States Department of Homeland Security declared the election "the most secure in American history," and the Republican Attorney General pronouncing a Loser's whining that he had had an absurd "Landslide!" stolen in a vast conspiracy by mysterious folks, none of whom could ever be identified, as

"BULLSHIT!"​

Faith in democracy demands, not additional constraints upon a citizen exercising her franchise, as much as an intolerance for bullshit from a loser who can't handle the truth. Lies about elections are the greatest threat to American democracy.

 

[Foxfyre]

Is that a requirement? That the votes be secret?

It has been a long standing tradition in this country that the electorate cast secret ballots so that there was no danger of recriminations from anybody for their vote. If they don't care who knows who they voted for, they can provide that information themselves. When you are provided a ballot at the polling place you are not required to sign it. You are given a private space to fill it out so that yes, the ballot is secret.

Those voting absentee must sign their ballot or the envelope containing the ballot so there is no secrecy. That is their choice to do if they do not go to the polling place to cast a secret ballot.

 

[Foxfyre]

Paranoidal losers will deny elections, regardless of how many bureaucratic impediments to voting are contrived. If they lose and can't handle it, they will blame fake i.d.s, evil voting machines, bogus bamboo balloters, meddlesome Italian satellites, etc. etc., etc.

I would facilitate participatory democracy by mail-in voting, early voting, convenient drop boxes, and efficient, intimidation-free in-person venues, all via paper ballots that can be scrupulously audited and recounted, as well as allowing for court appeals in every jurisdiction if the results of election are challenged with credible evidence.

Despite all the fake claims of voter fraud spewing from highly dubious sources in 2020, none that could effect the outcome could ever be found anywhere, the Republican Director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency in the United States Department of Homeland Security declared the election "the most secure in American history," and the Republican Attorney General pronouncing a Loser's whining that he had had an absurd "Landslide!" stolen in a vast conspiracy by mysterious folks, none of whom could ever be identified, as

View attachment 709447
"BULLSHIT!"​

Faith in democracy demands, not additional constraints upon a citizen exercising her franchise, as much as an intolerance for bullshit from a loser who can't handle the truth. Lies about elections are the greatest threat to American democracy.

Baloney. Politicians and the operatives who speak for them or defend them have been lying since there have been politicians. Short of slander and libel, free speech allows us to say what we think or believe or even lie. To assume all who are questioning process, ethics, and integrity of the 2020 election are lying, especially when you have zero evidence that they did not see what they saw or what they heard, is also partisan bullsh*t.

The fact is there is strong evidence of fraud in the past, and probably previous elections. There has been plenty of proof provided of fraud, impropriety etc. in the 2020 election. Many poll watchers and others on scene witnessed situations, actions, events that were highly suspicious. In the end there was insufficient evidence to say there was enough fraud or error to change the outcome. There was not sufficient evidence of election integrity to reassure those who are certain they witnessed massive fraud.

The Democrats via super lenient and permissive policies coupled with some very strange and thus far unexplained processes and tactics have destroyed confidence in the system for all but the blindly partisan. My proposed policy for registrations and voting are intended to restore confidence in the system for the 60+ percent of the electorate who want that confidence restored..

 

[Foxfyre]

Ballots are never signed. That is where your error lies.

I voted absentee a few times when I was was deployed in the military. No one sees your ballot nor can identify it until it is received by your county clerk.

I don't know how the military does it. I do know the one and only time I voted absentee I had to provide a signature that accompanied the ballot. And by the way, I received three--count them three--absentee ballots that year. Without a signature or means of ID going back with the ballot, what would keep me from returning all three? And I was in no way unique. During COVID and the ridiculous mail in ballot and drop box system in 2020 used by most states, we all received forms to request a ballot if ballots weren't automatically mailed. Many many received multiple forms, forms went to vacant houses, forms intended for former residents went to the new residents in many cases. So many opportunities to cheat the system. And there were myriad cases that the signed envelope was separated from the ballots so that there was no way to verify signatures during audits after the fact. (My proposed policy remedied that flaw in the process.)

All of that should never ever be allowed to happen again.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yes. We are interested "that" you voted, not "how" you voted.

This separation works real well in person or mail in. Not so well with vote by computer.

Some people care that their vote should remain secret, others don't.

And, you can educate me - does the secrecy go per state? Are some states secret and others aren't?

IS there actually a legal or Constitutional requirement for secrecy?

It varies by state, but every state requires a secret ballot for in-person voting.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I don't know how the military does it. I do know the one and only time I voted absentee I had to provide a signature that accompanied the ballot. And by the way, I received three--count them three--absentee ballots that year. Without a signature or means of ID going back with the ballot, what would keep me from returning all three? And I was in no way unique. During COVID and the ridiculous mail in ballot and drop box system in 2020 used by most states, we all received forms to request a ballot if ballots weren't automatically mailed. Many many received multiple forms, forms went to vacant houses, forms intended for former residents went to the new residents in many cases. So many opportunities to cheat the system.

That should never ever happen again.

I don't know when that happened. I voted in the military by mail-in ballot for 20 years.

Now though the security envelope is bar or QR coded, even if multiple ballots were received once the first ballot is entered back into the tracking system it won't allow for multiple votes from the same person.

The same security systems also prevent someone ordering a mail-in ballot then voting in-person (or vice versa).

WW

 

[Foxfyre]

Exactly! Hillary, for example, “conceded“ she lost and then went on to say Trump was an illegitimate president. That’s no concession.

And Pelosi and others have said Trump was an illegitimate President. I don't see any of our Democrat friends claiming the 2020 election was honest and fair criticizing them. But they come down on anybody on the right who questions the veracity of that election.

 

[Lisa558]

Primarily Old South States and Oklahoma.

Personally, I’m more concerned about the liberal Northeast states.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I don't know how the military does it. I do know the one and only time I voted absentee I had to provide a signature that accompanied the ballot. And by the way, I received three--count them three--absentee ballots that year. Without a signature or means of ID going back with the ballot, what would keep me from returning all three? And I was in no way unique. During COVID and the ridiculous mail in ballot and drop box system in 2020 used by most states, we all received forms to request a ballot if ballots weren't automatically mailed. Many many received multiple forms, forms went to vacant houses, forms intended for former residents went to the new residents in many cases. So many opportunities to cheat the system.

That should never ever happen again.

You probably signed the envelope containing the absentee ballot, but not the ballot itself. My ballots were always contained in an envelope, which was signed by me and then placed in an outer envelope for the postal system. My ballot could be verified by matching the signature to my voter registration signature. If it did not match, it was thrown out!

That is the way it should be done.

As to your multiple ballots, voter rolls should be annotated by your county clerk to show tat you voted. Any ballots after that would be thrown out as an attempt at fraud.

When I voted in person in my former state, my driver's license signature had to match the signature on the voter registration. This was always checked BEFORE I ever received a ballot at the polling precinct. No ID without a signature, no voting for you! There was a virtually foolproof system.

 

[AsherN]

Have the election on a weekend. Everyone has to have at least one day off each week. Change the law so that employers cannot ask you to work all day on election day.

There's no argument for having mail-in ballots.

Which day?

 

[AsherN]

You probably signed the envelope containing the absentee ballot, but not the ballot itself. My ballots were always contained in an envelope, which was signed by me and then placed in an outer envelope for the postal system. My ballot could be verified by matching the signature to my voter registration signature. If it did not match, it was thrown out!

That is the way it should be done.

As to your multiple ballots, voter rolls should be annotated by your county clerk to show tat you voted. Any ballots after that would be thrown out as an attempt at fraud.

When I voted in person in my former state, my driver's license signature had to match the signature on the voter registration. This was always checked BEFORE I ever received a ballot at the polling precinct. No ID without a signature, no voting for you! There was a virtually foolproof system.

Problem with signature matching is that a lot of people do not sign the same way twice. Even worse when comparing to an old signature on file.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Another way this could be done:

Biometrics are quite reliable at this point

Fingerprints work, and if you have a PC or a cell phone you can take a picture of your eyeball and submit it for a retina scan.

I prefer computer voting to mail in voting. Mail should only be used as a last resort, preferably not at all. Everyone has an Obama phone, just about everyone has internet access. Yeah, we'll let you use the mail but we'll verify you extra good if you choose that method

You watch too many TV shows and movies!

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't know when that happened. I voted in the military by mail-in ballot for 20 years.

Now though the security envelope is bar or QR coded, even if multiple ballots were received once the first ballot is entered back into the tracking system it won't allow for multiple votes from the same person.

The same security systems also prevent someone ordering a mail-in ballot then voting in-person (or vice versa).

WW

As far as you know it won't be allowed into the system. The person voting has no way of verifying that, and with the integrity of the programming in at least some voting machines now being legitimately questioned, how can any of us trust a machine to accurately count our vote?

I know for a fact how easy it would have been for me to cheat in the one election I voted absentee. I voted in person in 2020 but I also received multiple forms to request mail in ballots. One of those arrived even after early voting started.

The point is, there is no way to know for sure, given the juryrigged and altered processes for the 2020 election, to know how much fraud there actually was. Yes, there is insufficient evidence to say that the fraud would have changed the outcome. But there is also insufficient evidence to reassure the 60+% of the electorate who think there was serious fraud and that it is a problem.

It is very easy to say that those who WANT to cheat in elections want the same system and processes as we had in 2020.

I say we need to restore confidence in the system so that people can trust it.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Problem with signature matching is that a lot of people do not sign the same way twice. Even worse when comparing to an old signature on file.

Sorry! My signature is exactly the same as on my first SS card I got over 50 years ago. If you cannot be consistent, perhaps you shouldn't vote!

You could also update your voter registration to your "new" signature.

 

[Foxfyre]

Problem with signature matching is that a lot of people do not sign the same way twice. Even worse when comparing to an old signature on file.

That is correct. Therefore show PROOF of identify with a certified photo ID at the polling place when you sign in and if you vote absentee have your signature notarized.

 

[Foxfyre]

Sorry! My signature is exactly the same as on my first SS card I got over 50 years ago. If you cannot be consistent, perhaps you shouldn't vote!

You can't be serious. My signature is never exactly the same twice in a row since I was taught to write cursive. Evenmoreso now that our state has us sign one of those little computer sign in things instead of on paper.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That is correct. Therefore show PROOF of identify with a certified photo ID at the polling place when you sign in and if you vote absentee have your signature notarized.

During the pandemic, I needed a medical power of attorney notarized. It took me almost 6 months to find someone to do it. It is not as easy as it sounds.

 

[AsherN]

Moving out of the precinct? What if the precinct moves? In Florida, I never moved and went to a new precinct, and new congressional district!

Why can't I just vote in my assigned precinct after I moved 200 yards? If I move to a different county or state, I would need to reregister under current law in my former state. I recently moved to another state and reregistered to vote in my new state.

I should have to reregister because I was in the hospital at the time? Sorry, that one will simply not fly! Not voting in multiple elections over an extended period should be the requirement to remove someone from the voter rolls.

I love the way we do it in Canada. When I file my Federal income tax, there's a check box authorizing the CRA to share my information with Election Canada, the independent body overseeing Federal elections. They in turn share with the Provincial election body. Unless I moved between filing and election day, I'm registered to the correct address.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You can't be serious. My signature is never exactly the same twice in a row since I was taught to write cursive.

I am sorry that you have issues with motor skills, but most humans can do it, baring some type of illness. I have an aunt that is 100 years old. Her handwriting has never changed.

 

[AsherN]

She can't vote because she's working too hard?

Seriously!

What's wrong with this picture?

I used to travel for work a lot on an unpredictable scheduled. I would vote at the first opportunity I had because I could be out of town on election day.