Poverty and ignorance breeds crime. Economic immigrants and refugees are poor and uneducated. 2+2=4

[flacaltenn]

The truth about crime, illegal immigrants and sanctuary cities

I am a former Spanish speaking career detective who investigated violent crimes within the Hispanic and other ethnic immigrant communities.

I am also a forensic criminologist who is a subject matter expert in violent crime who advocates for facts and evidence. Here are some verified crime facts and statistics with you so that you will know the truth about the precarious relationship between violent crime and illegal immigrants.


As Americans, we should only care about three things: (1) are the immigrants in the U.S. illegally; (2) have they committed violent crimes predominantly against U.S. citizens; and (3) had these criminals not been in our country illegally, these crimes, the victimization of our citizens and the costs of their crimes borne by American taxpayers could have been completely avoided.

Now HERE is the problem stated very scientifically, with the consideration of JUST illegal aliens and the number for percent of total US population which is elusive and not rigidly defined by many. This important number is derived like this (from the link)

The Pew Research Institute estimates that as of 2014, there are at least 11.2 million illegal immigrants residing in the U.S. This population comprises approximately 3.5 percent of our country’s population.

Of these, by far the largest ethnic population, 52 percent are Hispanics comprised of Mexicans, Central Americans and Cubans.

That's roughly 1.75% of the general pop are illegal Hispanics.

So -- now that we have the definition and a clear statement to ASK a statistical question -- what are the results?

That same year, the U.S. Sentencing Commission found that 75 percent of all criminal defendants who were convicted and sentenced for federal drug offenses were illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants were also involved in 17 percent of all drug trafficking sentences and one third of all federal prison sentences.

The U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Sentencing Commission reported that as of 2014, illegal immigrants were convicted and sentenced for over 13 percent of all crimes committed in the U.S.

According to the FBI, 67,642 murders were committed in the U.S. from 2005 through 2008, and 115,717 from 2003 through 2009. The General Accounting Office documents that criminal immigrants committed 25,064 of these murders.

Illegal immigrants clearly commit a level of violent and drug related crimes disproportionate to their population.

In California alone, over 2,400 illegal immigrants out of a total prison population of 130,000 are imprisoned in the state’s prison system for the crime of homicide.

In California, there are just over 92 illegal immigrants imprisoned for every 100,000 illegals as compared to 74 citizens and legal non-citizen immigrants. In Arizona, the rate is nearly 69 illegals imprisoned for every 100,000, as compared to 54 citizens and legal non-citizen immigrants.

That last paragraph is the SPECIFIC nut we're looking for. 92 versus 74 per 100,000 between illegals and citizens in Cali. And 69 versus 54 in Arizona. There it is. NOT a crisis level finding. In fact, it may not be that statistically valid. And it's CERTAINLY nothing like the disparity between Blacks and whites when it comes to crime.

But it's there. I don't PERSONALLY think it's a major disparity. And POVERTY -- like in the OP statement probably accounts for MOST of the disparity that IS there.

But don't blow smoke. FOCUS on the definition of the question. And don't just go googling your ass off with crap statistical analysis that does not EVEN address the question being asked.

It is Our war on drugs that is cause that disparity.

The war on drugs is MOSTLY at the Southern border today. Now that the jails are no longer filling with marijuana tokers.

 

[flacaltenn]

So I did distinguish between Immigrants.
Be glad to do so further, but this would probably degenerate into a thread that would be warned/sanctioned as I gather from several posts.

Most of your links did not focus on the border issue. Some of them didn't even ask the right questions. The BORDER issue is IMPLIED in this discussion. We are not all at each other's throat about naturalizing British TV anchors or foreign scientists graduating from our American colleges.

So you have NO answer to the fact it was ME who DID distinguish between immigrants.
Now YOU want to LUMP them as "Implied"!
WTF!
And No answer to your only "illegal immigrant" Perversion of the OP.
Scoundrel.

It's been groovy but you had anbother rough outing.

nobody wants to fight over ALL immigrants. Or very few would. The issue that concerns 90% of folks in America is the ILLEGAL part.

 

[danielpalos]

The truth about crime, illegal immigrants and sanctuary cities

I am a former Spanish speaking career detective who investigated violent crimes within the Hispanic and other ethnic immigrant communities.

I am also a forensic criminologist who is a subject matter expert in violent crime who advocates for facts and evidence. Here are some verified crime facts and statistics with you so that you will know the truth about the precarious relationship between violent crime and illegal immigrants.


As Americans, we should only care about three things: (1) are the immigrants in the U.S. illegally; (2) have they committed violent crimes predominantly against U.S. citizens; and (3) had these criminals not been in our country illegally, these crimes, the victimization of our citizens and the costs of their crimes borne by American taxpayers could have been completely avoided.

Now HERE is the problem stated very scientifically, with the consideration of JUST illegal aliens and the number for percent of total US population which is elusive and not rigidly defined by many. This important number is derived like this (from the link)

The Pew Research Institute estimates that as of 2014, there are at least 11.2 million illegal immigrants residing in the U.S. This population comprises approximately 3.5 percent of our country’s population.

Of these, by far the largest ethnic population, 52 percent are Hispanics comprised of Mexicans, Central Americans and Cubans.

That's roughly 1.75% of the general pop are illegal Hispanics.

So -- now that we have the definition and a clear statement to ASK a statistical question -- what are the results?

That same year, the U.S. Sentencing Commission found that 75 percent of all criminal defendants who were convicted and sentenced for federal drug offenses were illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants were also involved in 17 percent of all drug trafficking sentences and one third of all federal prison sentences.

The U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Sentencing Commission reported that as of 2014, illegal immigrants were convicted and sentenced for over 13 percent of all crimes committed in the U.S.

According to the FBI, 67,642 murders were committed in the U.S. from 2005 through 2008, and 115,717 from 2003 through 2009. The General Accounting Office documents that criminal immigrants committed 25,064 of these murders.

Illegal immigrants clearly commit a level of violent and drug related crimes disproportionate to their population.

In California alone, over 2,400 illegal immigrants out of a total prison population of 130,000 are imprisoned in the state’s prison system for the crime of homicide.

In California, there are just over 92 illegal immigrants imprisoned for every 100,000 illegals as compared to 74 citizens and legal non-citizen immigrants. In Arizona, the rate is nearly 69 illegals imprisoned for every 100,000, as compared to 54 citizens and legal non-citizen immigrants.

That last paragraph is the SPECIFIC nut we're looking for. 92 versus 74 per 100,000 between illegals and citizens in Cali. And 69 versus 54 in Arizona. There it is. NOT a crisis level finding. In fact, it may not be that statistically valid. And it's CERTAINLY nothing like the disparity between Blacks and whites when it comes to crime.

But it's there. I don't PERSONALLY think it's a major disparity. And POVERTY -- like in the OP statement probably accounts for MOST of the disparity that IS there.

But don't blow smoke. FOCUS on the definition of the question. And don't just go googling your ass off with crap statistical analysis that does not EVEN address the question being asked.

It is Our war on drugs that is cause that disparity.

The war on drugs is MOSTLY at the Southern border today. Now that the jails are no longer filling with marijuana tokers.

why can we waste money on that instead of providing better, for the general welfare?

 

[danielpalos]

So I did distinguish between Immigrants.
Be glad to do so further, but this would probably degenerate into a thread that would be warned/sanctioned as I gather from several posts.

Most of your links did not focus on the border issue. Some of them didn't even ask the right questions. The BORDER issue is IMPLIED in this discussion. We are not all at each other's throat about naturalizing British TV anchors or foreign scientists graduating from our American colleges.

So you have NO answer to the fact it was ME who DID distinguish between immigrants.
Now YOU want to LUMP them as "Implied"!
WTF!
And No answer to your only "illegal immigrant" Perversion of the OP.
Scoundrel.

It's been groovy but you had anbother rough outing.

nobody wants to fight over ALL immigrants. Or very few would. The issue that concerns 90% of folks in America is the ILLEGAL part.

lousy public policy. why are we Losing money instead of Making, like Good Capitalists should.

 

[abu afak]

nobody wants to fight over ALL immigrants. Or very few would. The issue that concerns 90% of folks in America is the ILLEGAL part.

That too is Incorrect.
They are also concerned about the Latinization of America. Me too.
The "push #2", etc.
Their invasion of half the towns and cities with legals too.

One can't be Gov of Texas and many other states because we have legalized/amnestied too many.
So that now the Swing vote on current illegals.. is former illegals.

As I'm sure you didn't read in a post here, I too am against not only illegals but our Immigration policy... which instead of being used like the Draft, is a Dumping ground for the "tired and poor" we can no longer support.

Canada and Australia have more discriminating policies.. and most countries do not have Birth citizenship for illegal immigrant or temporary worker Children.

So you've hit one of my conservative issues.

Why?
I am in the STEM party. Not political
I want to raise the IQ of the country, not lower it.
I want people who can pay my Social Security, not drain the system.

Let's keep all those Chinese engineering students at MIT and Cal tech.. even pay them to stay.
In Fact, let's make the country 50% NE Asian for all I care. Higher IQ and infinitesimal crime.
But not allow legal or illegal basket cases except in true life saving situations or on a temp basis.
`

 

[abu afak]

One last thing:

A Shithole country is a Failed State whose main export is people.
We should NOT be the Nursery Annex for Mexico, Haiti, Pakistan, etc.
If you don't have jobs for them.. Stop *******!

We are not/should not be the overflow valve/dumping ground.
They get only Birth contol aid, No Visas from me.
`

 

[flacaltenn]

That too is Incorrect.
They are also concerned about the Latinization of America. Me too.

How do you Latinize without southern border immigration? You got a lot of Spaniards coming in?

It's not that they are Latin or Hispanic or whatever. I told Coyote back about 10 pages about the WONDERFUL experience in California with immigrants literally resurrecting the bad parts of my SF peninsula town. We ate and shopped there. Attended Quintinaras, marraiges and festivals there. EVERYBODY was happy...

UNTIL -- things began to change around 1995 or so. Even the "Little Tijuana" community was up in arms about the different KIND of immigrant that was coming in. No longer trades people, merchants, somewhat educated. It got nasty and I left. Because "the bottom of the barrel" are fleeing the countries to our South. It's their only hope to keep their kids alive and out of crime. Their GOVTS encourage it. WE encourage it with Catch/Release and "Bring a kid -- Get in free" policies.

They need to have an avocation and minimum education -- bottom line. Or things DO get nasty.

 

[flacaltenn]

The truth about crime, illegal immigrants and sanctuary cities

I am a former Spanish speaking career detective who investigated violent crimes within the Hispanic and other ethnic immigrant communities.

I am also a forensic criminologist who is a subject matter expert in violent crime who advocates for facts and evidence. Here are some verified crime facts and statistics with you so that you will know the truth about the precarious relationship between violent crime and illegal immigrants.


As Americans, we should only care about three things: (1) are the immigrants in the U.S. illegally; (2) have they committed violent crimes predominantly against U.S. citizens; and (3) had these criminals not been in our country illegally, these crimes, the victimization of our citizens and the costs of their crimes borne by American taxpayers could have been completely avoided.

Now HERE is the problem stated very scientifically, with the consideration of JUST illegal aliens and the number for percent of total US population which is elusive and not rigidly defined by many. This important number is derived like this (from the link)

The Pew Research Institute estimates that as of 2014, there are at least 11.2 million illegal immigrants residing in the U.S. This population comprises approximately 3.5 percent of our country’s population.

Of these, by far the largest ethnic population, 52 percent are Hispanics comprised of Mexicans, Central Americans and Cubans.

That's roughly 1.75% of the general pop are illegal Hispanics.

So -- now that we have the definition and a clear statement to ASK a statistical question -- what are the results?

That same year, the U.S. Sentencing Commission found that 75 percent of all criminal defendants who were convicted and sentenced for federal drug offenses were illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants were also involved in 17 percent of all drug trafficking sentences and one third of all federal prison sentences.

The U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Sentencing Commission reported that as of 2014, illegal immigrants were convicted and sentenced for over 13 percent of all crimes committed in the U.S.

According to the FBI, 67,642 murders were committed in the U.S. from 2005 through 2008, and 115,717 from 2003 through 2009. The General Accounting Office documents that criminal immigrants committed 25,064 of these murders.

Illegal immigrants clearly commit a level of violent and drug related crimes disproportionate to their population.

In California alone, over 2,400 illegal immigrants out of a total prison population of 130,000 are imprisoned in the state’s prison system for the crime of homicide.

In California, there are just over 92 illegal immigrants imprisoned for every 100,000 illegals as compared to 74 citizens and legal non-citizen immigrants. In Arizona, the rate is nearly 69 illegals imprisoned for every 100,000, as compared to 54 citizens and legal non-citizen immigrants.

That last paragraph is the SPECIFIC nut we're looking for. 92 versus 74 per 100,000 between illegals and citizens in Cali. And 69 versus 54 in Arizona. There it is. NOT a crisis level finding. In fact, it may not be that statistically valid. And it's CERTAINLY nothing like the disparity between Blacks and whites when it comes to crime.

But it's there. I don't PERSONALLY think it's a major disparity. And POVERTY -- like in the OP statement probably accounts for MOST of the disparity that IS there.

But don't blow smoke. FOCUS on the definition of the question. And don't just go googling your ass off with crap statistical analysis that does not EVEN address the question being asked.

It is Our war on drugs that is cause that disparity.

The war on drugs is MOSTLY at the Southern border today. Now that the jails are no longer filling with marijuana tokers.

why can we waste money on that instead of providing better, for the general welfare?

So you ignore cars with radiators stuffed with dope and money?. Or worse TRAINLOADS of the crap. That's everyday and every night for CBPatrol folks. Within WEEKS the massive cartel killing would decapitate every mayor in Southern Texas and be on the way to YOUR place the following week.

Does that answer your question?

 

[abu afak]

That too is Incorrect.
They are also concerned about the Latinization of America. Me too.

How do you Latinize without southern border immigration? You got a lot of Spaniards coming in?

It's not that they are Latin or Hispanic or whatever. I told Coyote back about 10 pages about the WONDERFUL experience in California with immigrants literally resurrecting the bad parts of my SF peninsula town. We ate and shopped there. Attended Quintinaras, marraiges and festivals there. EVERYBODY was happy...

UNTIL -- things began to change around 1995 or so. Even the "Little Tijuana" community was up in arms about the different KIND of immigrant that was coming in. No longer trades people, merchants, somewhat educated. It got nasty and I left. Because "the bottom of the barrel" are fleeing the countries to our South. It's their only hope to keep their kids alive and out of crime. Their GOVTS encourage it. WE encourage it with Catch/Release and "Bring a kid -- Get in free" policies.

They need to have an avocation and minimum education -- bottom line. Or things DO get nasty.

Lovely ANECDOTE.

Do they pay Federal Income taxes? (ie earn over app 50K)
Half people don't.
If not, they are net Losers for the Govt. (my Money) even IF on the books.
Someone's gotta pay for those Roads, F35s, etc

Not to mention those earn half that, have 3 kids in school, send 3K or 4K back to Mexico or Guatamala, and show up at an ER for care.
BIG NET LOSERS.

Will they be starting up Google, Baidu, Amazon, etc?
Have any of our long time native depressed minorities here done so?
Or will they, like NE Asians, (even poor ones) have their kids through an Ivy League school in one generation?

Funny how you went from Mr Refined Statistic to anecdotal Senor Jellyfish.
So technical you try to be too!

I want to run this country for it's people, and more like a biz, not so you can hear a Mariachi band.
`

 

[flacaltenn]

Do they pay Federal Income taxes? (ie earn over app 50K)
Half people don't.
If not, they are net Losers for the Govt. (my Money) even IF on the books.
Someone's gotta pay for those Roads, F35s, etc

Well that's the comment I made EARLIER in this thread. All the folks shouting about menial labor and not being a burden on the semi and skill job markets is just short-sighted nonsense. And --- a tiny bit racist actually.

Because by the 2nd and 3rd generation we ALREADY KNOW that "reasonable" Mexican/CentAmer immigrants are at NEAR WORKFORCE parity with the rest of the public. They are NOT a "permanent underclass". And that's why the policies have to be long-term strategic and not short-term tactical. Because the result of about 4000 people a day crashing the Southern border will LOOK very different about 40 years out.

They WILL be paying taxes and starting up Googles and Genentechs. I worked for many of them out in Silicon Valley that were 3rd and 4th gen "menial laborers".. Don't gloss that over. Because it's how it gonna play out. To KEEP the "menial labor" argument -- the 'jobs that Americans just wont do" argument -- you have to have a CONSTANT STREAM of new blood.

Funny how you went from Mr Refined Statistic to anecdotal Senor Jellyfish.
So technical you try to be too!

I like to stay human and civil as opposed to some other strategies that YOU rely on.

 

[Flopper]

How much of our own comfort are we willing to sacrifice for this feel good bullshit? Do you have any idea how many poor and desperate people there are in the world? I'll give you a hint; there are a fuck load. The first world can't save everybody, and in attempting to do so we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot. If the left got its way we would actually be fucked. The Republicans do a lot of stupid shit, but thank fuck for their stance on immigration. If we actually want to help these people we need to figure out how to help them where they live.

Do you disappointed lefties want to know why Trump won, and why he will win again? It's because you people would fuck up everything if you had full control of the immigration situation. That one issue is hurting the left badly. If you'd just pull your heads out of your asses and focus on Americans you would start dominating elections.

I wouldn't count on that with 56% of the population being either immigrants, have one or more parents that are immigrants, or have one or more grandparents that are immigrants. Most American families today have a relative that's immigrant. For those families immigration is a part of their family. It's not just some political issue that has had no effect on their lives.

Incidentally we have tried to help people in their own country, Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Korea,.....

 

[Flopper]

Many immigrants come to America out of poverty through out our history.

Is there a point here?

This is the year 2018 and we face problems unique to the era we live in. The left wants to invite in millions of immigrants/refugees and ignore millions more illegal ones, and God only knows how bad it would be without Republican opposition.

As a member of the left, no - I don't want to ignore millions of of illegal immigrants. I DO want us to do OUR SHARE in alleviating the world's refugee crisis PARTICULARLY in those countries where we played a part in their demise.

I want illegal immigrants to be treated with the same basic human dignity and rights as any other person in America. That means if they are begging for asylum, they get their hearings, without having their children ripped away and thrown into foster care. It's nothing more than than behaving like a civilized country.

I don't see why that is so abhorrant to you.

How can we hope to have affordable social programs for Americans with that going on? Also poor and uneducated people are going to commit more crime. I recognize not all of them will do that, but a lot will because they're poor and uneducated. I personally can't justify increased victimization of Americans for the sake of foreigners.

Sentence 1: contrary to rightwing mythology, immigrants don't come here for welfare. They come here to work, to try and make a better life than they left. Most work. At crap jobs.

Sentence 2: So what? Immigrants have a lower rate of crime than native born Americans. They are also more likely to be victimized.

Sentence 3: We were all foreigners once...

Unsurprisingly diminishing the quality of life in America for the sake of foreigners is becoming more and more unpopular among voters.

What diminishing quality of life and what evidence do you have that it is caused by "foreigners"?

I addressed your points.

One of the often repeated statements from the left is the need for fairness.
Despite all arguments to the contrary ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS represent actions and attitudes which are inherently UNFAIR to the more than 6 million people each year who apply for immigrant visas and wait to legally enter the US. Tens of millions of applicants, many who have been waiting years continue to wait while illegals jump the line.
Can the left truly claim that illegals are more deserving than the millions worldwide who have done everything asked of them and followed the law?
.

And outside of some countries in Europe, who allows more foreigners into their country than the US? Over recent years, we have averaged between 600,000 to 750,000 new citizens to join our nation.

That's only .18% of the population a year, or about 2% in 10 years. That seems pretty low.

 

[Flopper]

nobody wants to fight over ALL immigrants. Or very few would. The issue that concerns 90% of folks in America is the ILLEGAL part.

That too is Incorrect.
They are also concerned about the Latinization of America. Me too.
The "push #2", etc.
Their invasion of half the towns and cities with legals too.

One can't be Gov of Texas and many other states because we have legalized/amnestied too many.
So that now the Swing vote on current illegals.. is former illegals.

As I'm sure you didn't read in a post here, I too am against not only illegals but our Immigration policy... which instead of being used like the Draft, is a Dumping ground for the "tired and poor" we can no longer support.

Canada and Australia have more discriminating policies.. and most countries do not have Birth citizenship for illegal immigrant or temporary worker Children.

So you've hit one of my conservative issues.

Why?
I am in the STEM party. Not political
I want to raise the IQ of the country, not lower it.
I want people who can pay my Social Security, not drain the system.

Let's keep all those Chinese engineering students at MIT and Cal tech.. even pay them to stay.
In Fact, let's make the country 50% NE Asian for all I care. Higher IQ and infinitesimal crime.
But not allow legal or illegal basket cases except in true life saving situations or on a temp basis.
`

The Latinization of America will continue even if immigration was zero, which of course it never will be. The 56 million Hispanics in America have a bit higher fertility rate than non-Hispanic whites so even without immigration the number of Hispanics will continue to grow. So unless you're planing on genocide, you better learn Spanish.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

5000+ old white men are dying each day. That's a lot of Weak Whytes who won't be voting soon enough. So there's that.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Google
immigrants commit more crime

immigrants commit more crime - Google Search

Two charts demolish the notion that immigrants here illegally commit ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-her...
Jun 19, 2018 - It found that native-born residents were much more likely to be convicted of a crime thanimmigrants in the country legally or illegally.

Is Illegal Immigration Linked to More or Less Crime? - FactCheck.org
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/.../is-illegal-immigration-linked-to-more-or-less-crim...Claim: It's "not true" that immigrants in the U.S. illegally are "safer than the people that live in the country" in terms of crimes committed.
Claimed by: Donald Trump
Fact check by FactCheck.org: Most Research Disputes
Feedback
....
The Myth of the Criminal Immigrant - The New York Times
The Myth of the Criminal Immigrant
[/b]Mar 30, 2018 - +5,000 +10,000 +15,000 +20,000 immigrants per 100,000 people Change since 1980 per 100,000 people +500 violent crimes –500 –1000 ...

Illegal Immigration Does Not Increase Violent Crime, 4 Studies Show ...
https://www.npr.org/.../studies-say-illegal-immigration-does-not-increase-violent-crime
May 2, 2018 - Now, four academic studies show that illegal immigration does not increase ... "It's actually immaterial whether they commit more crimes or not ...

FACT CHECK: Trump, Illegal Immigration And Crime : NPR
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/22/.../fact-check-trump-illegal-immigration-and-crime
Jun 22, 2018 - ... of crime committed by immigrants who entered the country illegally. ... The president was joined at the White House by more than a dozen ...

Immigration and Crime - Oxford Research Encyclopedia of Criminology
criminology.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/.../acrefore-9780190264079-e-93
Should there be a concern about crimes committed by both legal and illegal immigrants? Research consistently shows that foreign-born individuals are less ...

Native-born Texans commit more crimes than undocumented ...
https://www.chron.com/.../immigrants-commit-less-crimes-than-Americans-12729578....
Mar 6, 2018 - Native-born Texans are more likely to commit crimes and get arrested than immigrants, a new study suggests. Using data from the Texas ...

Kobach: Correcting the Record on Illegal Aliens and Crime - Kris Kobach
Kobach: Correcting the Record on Illegal Aliens and Crime...
Such crimes are entirely preventable – if our immigration laws were fully enforced ... Confronted with such crimes committed by illegal aliens, the open-borders ...
...

You're STILL WRONG Lying Hypocrite!

/Thread

Did you forget to quote me in hopes that I wouldn't notice this nonsense again? Your fact checker admitted that there isn't enough data to do a conclusive study, and that studies have gone both ways. What you've presented is meaningless. If you were actually a person that respects science you wouldn't have posted this garbage again. Let me know when you find a study that shows that race plays a large role in the likelihood of crime, racist.

LOL"CLown.
The Links/Studies are Overwhelmingly in my favor.
Want to see another few Google pages you MORON.

Those are "studies" and YOU LOST.

NONE SAY what YOUR OP Claimed
YOU LIED/Were STUPID.
and are Still UNBACKED with your idiotic @2+2=4

ZERO

You're awfully angry for somebody that's right. Again, your fact checker admitted there isn't enough evidence to do a conclusive study. Hell, it even said that when it comes to the fed and data that's actually available immigrants seem to commit far more crime. You'll never find a legitimate study that came to the conclusion that race, rather than poverty, is a large indicator for likelihood to commit crime. You're an ignorant and racist partisan that pretends to be an ally of science.

I looked into poverty in the US by race. According to the link I'm providing, Whites have a 9% poverty rate compared to blacks at 22%. Yet you are 8 times more likely to be murdered by a black than a white. If proportional to poverty alone, you would only be about 2.4 times likely to be murdered by a black than a white:

Poverty Rate by Race/Ethnicity

Whites are more likely by other whites and even less likely to be killed by immigrants. So there's that.

The WeakWhyte racist agenda is heavy in this thread.

 

[Unkotare]

nobody wants to fight over ALL immigrants. Or very few would. The issue that concerns 90% of folks in America is the ILLEGAL part.

That too is Incorrect.
They are also concerned about the Latinization of America. Me too.
The "push #2", etc.
Their invasion of half the towns and cities with legals too.

One can't be Gov of Texas and many other states because we have legalized/amnestied too many.
So that now the Swing vote on current illegals.. is former illegals.

As I'm sure you didn't read in a post here, I too am against not only illegals but our Immigration policy... which instead of being used like the Draft, is a Dumping ground for the "tired and poor" we can no longer support.

Canada and Australia have more discriminating policies.. and most countries do not have Birth citizenship for illegal immigrant or temporary worker Children.

So you've hit one of my conservative issues.

Why?
I am in the STEM party. Not political
I want to raise the IQ of the country, not lower it.
I want people who can pay my Social Security, not drain the system.

Let's keep all those Chinese engineering students at MIT and Cal tech.. even pay them to stay.
In Fact, let's make the country 50% NE Asian for all I care. Higher IQ and infinitesimal crime.
But not allow legal or illegal basket cases except in true life saving situations or on a temp basis.
`

The Latinization of America will continue even if immigration was zero, which of course it never will be. The 56 million Hispanics in America have a bit higher fertility rate than non-Hispanic whites so even without immigration the number of Hispanics will continue to grow. So unless you're planing on genocide, you better learn Spanish.

No, you better learn English.

 

[danielpalos]

That too is Incorrect.
They are also concerned about the Latinization of America. Me too.

How do you Latinize without southern border immigration? You got a lot of Spaniards coming in?

It's not that they are Latin or Hispanic or whatever. I told Coyote back about 10 pages about the WONDERFUL experience in California with immigrants literally resurrecting the bad parts of my SF peninsula town. We ate and shopped there. Attended Quintinaras, marraiges and festivals there. EVERYBODY was happy...

UNTIL -- things began to change around 1995 or so. Even the "Little Tijuana" community was up in arms about the different KIND of immigrant that was coming in. No longer trades people, merchants, somewhat educated. It got nasty and I left. Because "the bottom of the barrel" are fleeing the countries to our South. It's their only hope to keep their kids alive and out of crime. Their GOVTS encourage it. WE encourage it with Catch/Release and "Bring a kid -- Get in free" policies.

They need to have an avocation and minimum education -- bottom line. Or things DO get nasty.

What do you expect with "wars on crime, drugs, and terror"? The best and brightest refugees.

 

[danielpalos]

The truth about crime, illegal immigrants and sanctuary cities

I am a former Spanish speaking career detective who investigated violent crimes within the Hispanic and other ethnic immigrant communities.

I am also a forensic criminologist who is a subject matter expert in violent crime who advocates for facts and evidence. Here are some verified crime facts and statistics with you so that you will know the truth about the precarious relationship between violent crime and illegal immigrants.


As Americans, we should only care about three things: (1) are the immigrants in the U.S. illegally; (2) have they committed violent crimes predominantly against U.S. citizens; and (3) had these criminals not been in our country illegally, these crimes, the victimization of our citizens and the costs of their crimes borne by American taxpayers could have been completely avoided.

Now HERE is the problem stated very scientifically, with the consideration of JUST illegal aliens and the number for percent of total US population which is elusive and not rigidly defined by many. This important number is derived like this (from the link)

The Pew Research Institute estimates that as of 2014, there are at least 11.2 million illegal immigrants residing in the U.S. This population comprises approximately 3.5 percent of our country’s population.

Of these, by far the largest ethnic population, 52 percent are Hispanics comprised of Mexicans, Central Americans and Cubans.

That's roughly 1.75% of the general pop are illegal Hispanics.

So -- now that we have the definition and a clear statement to ASK a statistical question -- what are the results?

That same year, the U.S. Sentencing Commission found that 75 percent of all criminal defendants who were convicted and sentenced for federal drug offenses were illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants were also involved in 17 percent of all drug trafficking sentences and one third of all federal prison sentences.

The U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Sentencing Commission reported that as of 2014, illegal immigrants were convicted and sentenced for over 13 percent of all crimes committed in the U.S.

According to the FBI, 67,642 murders were committed in the U.S. from 2005 through 2008, and 115,717 from 2003 through 2009. The General Accounting Office documents that criminal immigrants committed 25,064 of these murders.

Illegal immigrants clearly commit a level of violent and drug related crimes disproportionate to their population.

In California alone, over 2,400 illegal immigrants out of a total prison population of 130,000 are imprisoned in the state’s prison system for the crime of homicide.

In California, there are just over 92 illegal immigrants imprisoned for every 100,000 illegals as compared to 74 citizens and legal non-citizen immigrants. In Arizona, the rate is nearly 69 illegals imprisoned for every 100,000, as compared to 54 citizens and legal non-citizen immigrants.

That last paragraph is the SPECIFIC nut we're looking for. 92 versus 74 per 100,000 between illegals and citizens in Cali. And 69 versus 54 in Arizona. There it is. NOT a crisis level finding. In fact, it may not be that statistically valid. And it's CERTAINLY nothing like the disparity between Blacks and whites when it comes to crime.

But it's there. I don't PERSONALLY think it's a major disparity. And POVERTY -- like in the OP statement probably accounts for MOST of the disparity that IS there.

But don't blow smoke. FOCUS on the definition of the question. And don't just go googling your ass off with crap statistical analysis that does not EVEN address the question being asked.

It is Our war on drugs that is cause that disparity.

The war on drugs is MOSTLY at the Southern border today. Now that the jails are no longer filling with marijuana tokers.

why can we waste money on that instead of providing better, for the general welfare?

So you ignore cars with radiators stuffed with dope and money?. Or worse TRAINLOADS of the crap. That's everyday and every night for CBPatrol folks. Within WEEKS the massive cartel killing would decapitate every mayor in Southern Texas and be on the way to YOUR place the following week.

Does that answer your question?

It is Our drug war. Why doesn't the Right Wing insist on Wartime Tax rates for it? Just pork without it.

 

[flacaltenn]

The truth about crime, illegal immigrants and sanctuary cities

Now HERE is the problem stated very scientifically, with the consideration of JUST illegal aliens and the number for percent of total US population which is elusive and not rigidly defined by many. This important number is derived like this (from the link)

That's roughly 1.75% of the general pop are illegal Hispanics.

So -- now that we have the definition and a clear statement to ASK a statistical question -- what are the results?

That same year, the U.S. Sentencing Commission found that 75 percent of all criminal defendants who were convicted and sentenced for federal drug offenses were illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants were also involved in 17 percent of all drug trafficking sentences and one third of all federal prison sentences.

The U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Sentencing Commission reported that as of 2014, illegal immigrants were convicted and sentenced for over 13 percent of all crimes committed in the U.S.

According to the FBI, 67,642 murders were committed in the U.S. from 2005 through 2008, and 115,717 from 2003 through 2009. The General Accounting Office documents that criminal immigrants committed 25,064 of these murders.

Illegal immigrants clearly commit a level of violent and drug related crimes disproportionate to their population.

In California alone, over 2,400 illegal immigrants out of a total prison population of 130,000 are imprisoned in the state’s prison system for the crime of homicide.

In California, there are just over 92 illegal immigrants imprisoned for every 100,000 illegals as compared to 74 citizens and legal non-citizen immigrants. In Arizona, the rate is nearly 69 illegals imprisoned for every 100,000, as compared to 54 citizens and legal non-citizen immigrants.

That last paragraph is the SPECIFIC nut we're looking for. 92 versus 74 per 100,000 between illegals and citizens in Cali. And 69 versus 54 in Arizona. There it is. NOT a crisis level finding. In fact, it may not be that statistically valid. And it's CERTAINLY nothing like the disparity between Blacks and whites when it comes to crime.

But it's there. I don't PERSONALLY think it's a major disparity. And POVERTY -- like in the OP statement probably accounts for MOST of the disparity that IS there.

But don't blow smoke. FOCUS on the definition of the question. And don't just go googling your ass off with crap statistical analysis that does not EVEN address the question being asked.

It is Our war on drugs that is cause that disparity.

The war on drugs is MOSTLY at the Southern border today. Now that the jails are no longer filling with marijuana tokers.

why can we waste money on that instead of providing better, for the general welfare?

So you ignore cars with radiators stuffed with dope and money?. Or worse TRAINLOADS of the crap. That's everyday and every night for CBPatrol folks. Within WEEKS the massive cartel killing would decapitate every mayor in Southern Texas and be on the way to YOUR place the following week.

Does that answer your question?

It is Our drug war. Why doesn't the Right Wing insist on Wartime Tax rates for it? Just pork without it.

There IS a war in Mexico. It's an ALL OUT war. And one of the reasons for border security and all that hysterical talk about a wall is because -- we don't want that war over-running our Southern border. Go contact your moron reps in DC and demand they support border security.

 

[danielpalos]

It is Our war on drugs that is cause that disparity.

The war on drugs is MOSTLY at the Southern border today. Now that the jails are no longer filling with marijuana tokers.

why can we waste money on that instead of providing better, for the general welfare?

So you ignore cars with radiators stuffed with dope and money?. Or worse TRAINLOADS of the crap. That's everyday and every night for CBPatrol folks. Within WEEKS the massive cartel killing would decapitate every mayor in Southern Texas and be on the way to YOUR place the following week.

Does that answer your question?

It is Our drug war. Why doesn't the Right Wing insist on Wartime Tax rates for it? Just pork without it.

There IS a war in Mexico. It's an ALL OUT war. And one of the reasons for border security and all that hysterical talk about a wall is because -- we don't want that war over-running our Southern border. Go contact your moron reps in DC and demand they support border security.

yes, it is due to the black markets Created by our War on Drugs; who's side are y'all on?