Poverty and ignorance breeds crime. Economic immigrants and refugees are poor and uneducated. 2+2=4

[Coyote]

Sentence 1: contrary to rightwing mythology, immigrants don't come here for welfare. They come here to work, to try and make a better life than they left. Most work. At crap jobs.

If they didn't come here for welfare, why do so many legal immigrants end up on our social programs?

They don't. Most are working - possibly the working poor - but working. Doesn't that mean anything anymore?

Do Undocumented Immigrants Overuse Government Benefits? | Econofact

The working poor use social programs. If we're going to have a conversation you should try to be honest. They may not use or abuse them more than anybody else, but poor immigrants DO use them. We cannot provide shelter and assistance to the poor of the world. If we're going to have good social programs we need to close the door, especially if we're ever going to implement something like universal healthcare.

If they are working...I don't care. The problem isn't with immigrants it's with our wage system.

 

[Confounding]

How much of our own comfort are we willing to sacrifice for this feel good bullshit? Do you have any idea how many poor and desperate people there are in the world? I'll give you a hint; there are a fuck load. The first world can't save everybody, and in attempting to do so we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot. If the left got its way we would actually be fucked. The Republicans do a lot of stupid shit, but thank fuck for their stance on immigration. If we actually want to help these people we need to figure out how to help them where they live.

Do you disappointed lefties want to know why Trump won, and why he will win again? It's because you people would fuck up everything if you had full control of the immigration situation. That one issue is hurting the left badly. If you'd just pull your heads out of your asses and focus on Americans you would start dominating elections.

To help the people of the world in terrible conditions that we made for them is kinda stupid. We need to quit making other nations suffer for our gain.

The population of the world is 7.5 billion people. How many of those 7.5 billion should we offer refuge in your opinion as a Blame America First citizen?

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

America first. Even if it's our fault letting a bunch of poor immigrants in is not the solution. You'd shoot yourself in the foot out of guilt and accomplish nothing.

 

[Coyote]

Then why is white collar crime occurring at all?

I didn't say rich white people don't commit crime. I said poor uneducated people commit more crime, especially violent crime. This is a really bad argument.

It's a bad argument to claim immigrants commit more crime when statistics say otherwise.

 

[Decus]

I'm not blaming illegals but your saying that our system needs to be improved does not justify illegals coming into our country. Illegals should be deported, provided an application and should wait until given a visa.
.

I'm not saying it "justifies" anything.

We are a nation of laws. As a result illegal immigration is illegal.

But we also have latititude in how and to what extent we choose to prosecute those laws. We do that with everything. We don't prosecute jaywalking the same as we do sexual assault. I would prefer to expend more resources on prosecuting crimes that are dangerous FIRST. Rapid deportation of illegals that commit violent crimes. Pursuing Meth over Marijuana. etc.

How much does jaywalking cost the nation each year?

The claim that jaywalking is the equivalent of ilĺegal immigration in terms of impact on the country is without merit.
.

The claim that rape and murder are the equivalent of illegal immigration in terms of impact is without merit also. But that doesn't stop those comparisons.

That someone equated rape and murder to illegal immigration doesn't change the fact that illegals need to leave the country and apply for an immigrant visa.
If it is made clear to them that their situation will not be normalized while they are in country many will leave in order to begin the process. Making allowances for illegals sends the wrong message.
.

How about making allowances for jaywalkers? Speeders?

Jaywalkers and speeders should be prosecuted. I have paid a fortune in speeding fines and my insurance has gone through the roof despite not having had a wreck or running anyone over. I can't complain because I broke the law.
.

 

[Coyote]

How much of our own comfort are we willing to sacrifice for this feel good bullshit? Do you have any idea how many poor and desperate people there are in the world? I'll give you a hint; there are a fuck load. The first world can't save everybody, and in attempting to do so we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot. If the left got its way we would actually be fucked. The Republicans do a lot of stupid shit, but thank fuck for their stance on immigration. If we actually want to help these people we need to figure out how to help them where they live.

Do you disappointed lefties want to know why Trump won, and why he will win again? It's because you people would fuck up everything if you had full control of the immigration situation. That one issue is hurting the left badly. If you'd just pull your heads out of your asses and focus on Americans you would start dominating elections.

To help the people of the world in terrible conditions that we made for them is kinda stupid. We need to quit making other nations suffer for our gain.

The population of the world is 7.5 billion people. How many of those 7.5 billion should we offer refuge in your opinion as a Blame America First citizen?

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

America first. Even if it's our fault letting a bunch of poor immigrants in is not the solution. You'd shoot yourself in the foot out of guilt and accomplish nothing.

America wouldn't be "first" with out it's immigrants.

 

[Confounding]

Sentence 1: contrary to rightwing mythology, immigrants don't come here for welfare. They come here to work, to try and make a better life than they left. Most work. At crap jobs.

If they didn't come here for welfare, why do so many legal immigrants end up on our social programs?

They don't. Most are working - possibly the working poor - but working. Doesn't that mean anything anymore?

Do Undocumented Immigrants Overuse Government Benefits? | Econofact

The working poor use social programs. If we're going to have a conversation you should try to be honest. They may not use or abuse them more than anybody else, but poor immigrants DO use them. We cannot provide shelter and assistance to the poor of the world. If we're going to have good social programs we need to close the door, especially if we're ever going to implement something like universal healthcare.

If they are working...I don't care. The problem isn't with immigrants it's with our wage system.

I agree wages are a problem, but you should care about immigrants using our social programs. It's not an endless pot of goodies. We can't maintain shit like that if we let everybody in.

 

[Coyote]

I'm not saying it "justifies" anything.

We are a nation of laws. As a result illegal immigration is illegal.

But we also have latititude in how and to what extent we choose to prosecute those laws. We do that with everything. We don't prosecute jaywalking the same as we do sexual assault. I would prefer to expend more resources on prosecuting crimes that are dangerous FIRST. Rapid deportation of illegals that commit violent crimes. Pursuing Meth over Marijuana. etc.

How much does jaywalking cost the nation each year?

The claim that jaywalking is the equivalent of ilĺegal immigration in terms of impact on the country is without merit.
.

The claim that rape and murder are the equivalent of illegal immigration in terms of impact is without merit also. But that doesn't stop those comparisons.

That someone equated rape and murder to illegal immigration doesn't change the fact that illegals need to leave the country and apply for an immigrant visa.
If it is made clear to them that their situation will not be normalized while they are in country many will leave in order to begin the process. Making allowances for illegals sends the wrong message.
.

How about making allowances for jaywalkers? Speeders?

Jaywalkers and speeders should be prosecuted. I have paid a fortune in speeding fines and my insurance has gone through the roof despite not having had a wreck or running anyone over. I can't complain because I broke the law.
.

But they aren't. And there is no CALL for it.

The reality is we have finite resources and manpower. Where do you put it?

 

[Coyote]

Sentence 1: contrary to rightwing mythology, immigrants don't come here for welfare. They come here to work, to try and make a better life than they left. Most work. At crap jobs.

If they didn't come here for welfare, why do so many legal immigrants end up on our social programs?

They don't. Most are working - possibly the working poor - but working. Doesn't that mean anything anymore?

Do Undocumented Immigrants Overuse Government Benefits? | Econofact

The working poor use social programs. If we're going to have a conversation you should try to be honest. They may not use or abuse them more than anybody else, but poor immigrants DO use them. We cannot provide shelter and assistance to the poor of the world. If we're going to have good social programs we need to close the door, especially if we're ever going to implement something like universal healthcare.

If they are working...I don't care. The problem isn't with immigrants it's with our wage system.

I agree wages are a problem, but you should care about immigrants using our social programs. It's not an endless pot of goodies. We can't maintain shit like that if we let everybody in.

Why should I care about them using it anymore than anyone else using it?

 

[Confounding]

How much of our own comfort are we willing to sacrifice for this feel good bullshit? Do you have any idea how many poor and desperate people there are in the world? I'll give you a hint; there are a fuck load. The first world can't save everybody, and in attempting to do so we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot. If the left got its way we would actually be fucked. The Republicans do a lot of stupid shit, but thank fuck for their stance on immigration. If we actually want to help these people we need to figure out how to help them where they live.

Do you disappointed lefties want to know why Trump won, and why he will win again? It's because you people would fuck up everything if you had full control of the immigration situation. That one issue is hurting the left badly. If you'd just pull your heads out of your asses and focus on Americans you would start dominating elections.

To help the people of the world in terrible conditions that we made for them is kinda stupid. We need to quit making other nations suffer for our gain.

The population of the world is 7.5 billion people. How many of those 7.5 billion should we offer refuge in your opinion as a Blame America First citizen?

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

America first. Even if it's our fault letting a bunch of poor immigrants in is not the solution. You'd shoot yourself in the foot out of guilt and accomplish nothing.

America wouldn't be "first" with out it's immigrants.

This isn't a good argument to what I said. Letting the poor of the world in our back door because we feel guilty about past grievances accomplishes nothing other than making life harder for Americans.

 

[Confounding]

If they didn't come here for welfare, why do so many legal immigrants end up on our social programs?

They don't. Most are working - possibly the working poor - but working. Doesn't that mean anything anymore?

Do Undocumented Immigrants Overuse Government Benefits? | Econofact

The working poor use social programs. If we're going to have a conversation you should try to be honest. They may not use or abuse them more than anybody else, but poor immigrants DO use them. We cannot provide shelter and assistance to the poor of the world. If we're going to have good social programs we need to close the door, especially if we're ever going to implement something like universal healthcare.

If they are working...I don't care. The problem isn't with immigrants it's with our wage system.

I agree wages are a problem, but you should care about immigrants using our social programs. It's not an endless pot of goodies. We can't maintain shit like that if we let everybody in.

Why should I care about them using it anymore than anyone else using it?

Because when the number of people using it goes up it gets more expensive. I'm not willing to give to poor immigrants before poor Americans. These programs cannot be maintained if fuck loads of people are using them.

 

[Decus]

The population of the world is 7.5 billion people. How many of those 7.5 billion should we offer refuge in your opinion as a Blame America First citizen?

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

Are you saying I wrecked Iraq (being part of the collective WE). How much responsibilty does Sadam have for Iraq's problems? - just curious.
.

Sadam's responsibility ends with our invasion.

Does that mean I'm also blameless?
.

Personally?

I understood my (WE) need to make things right which usuaĺy means I have to give money to the government to fix the problem. Nothing ever gets done without government getting some much nèded cash.
If I'm not responsible I'm not paying. So am I?
.

 

[Coyote]

To help the people of the world in terrible conditions that we made for them is kinda stupid. We need to quit making other nations suffer for our gain.

The population of the world is 7.5 billion people. How many of those 7.5 billion should we offer refuge in your opinion as a Blame America First citizen?

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

America first. Even if it's our fault letting a bunch of poor immigrants in is not the solution. You'd shoot yourself in the foot out of guilt and accomplish nothing.

America wouldn't be "first" with out it's immigrants.

This isn't a good argument to what I said. Letting the poor of the world in our back door because we feel guilty about past grievances accomplishes nothing other than making life harder for Americans.

Immigration, ideally, should be a diverse mix - large percentage of "meritorious" people with skills we need, and a smaller percentage of those that simply want to come and have no criminal record. It isn't just rich and well educated people who made a sucess here in America. It's just as often poor, less educated people who worked like hell so their children could succeed. 9 Children of Immigrants Who Fundamentally Changed the US

 

[Coyote]

They don't. Most are working - possibly the working poor - but working. Doesn't that mean anything anymore?

Do Undocumented Immigrants Overuse Government Benefits? | Econofact

The working poor use social programs. If we're going to have a conversation you should try to be honest. They may not use or abuse them more than anybody else, but poor immigrants DO use them. We cannot provide shelter and assistance to the poor of the world. If we're going to have good social programs we need to close the door, especially if we're ever going to implement something like universal healthcare.

If they are working...I don't care. The problem isn't with immigrants it's with our wage system.

I agree wages are a problem, but you should care about immigrants using our social programs. It's not an endless pot of goodies. We can't maintain shit like that if we let everybody in.

Why should I care about them using it anymore than anyone else using it?

Because when the number of people using it goes up it gets more expensive. I'm not willing to give to poor immigrants before poor Americans. These programs cannot be maintained if fuck loads of people are using them.

Immigrants here legally are no different than Americans imo.

 

[Confounding]

Then why is white collar crime occurring at all?

I didn't say rich white people don't commit crime. I said poor uneducated people commit more crime, especially violent crime. This is a really bad argument.

It's a bad argument to claim immigrants commit more crime when statistics say otherwise.

I didn't say that. I said poor people commit more crime. Letting in millions of poor people means crime will go up and our social programs will have more burden. Be logical. Also you skipped the big post I made tearing your original arguments to shreds.

 

[Coyote]

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

Are you saying I wrecked Iraq (being part of the collective WE). How much responsibilty does Sadam have for Iraq's problems? - just curious.
.

Sadam's responsibility ends with our invasion.

Does that mean I'm also blameless?
.

Personally?

I understood my (WE) need to make things right which usuaĺy means I have to give money to the government to fix the problem. Nothing ever gets done without government getting some much nèded cash.
If I'm not responsible I'm not paying. So am I?
.

Collectively we are.

I didn't support the war in Iraq nor did I vote for those who did. But as an American I am responsible for what my country did.

 

[Confounding]

The population of the world is 7.5 billion people. How many of those 7.5 billion should we offer refuge in your opinion as a Blame America First citizen?

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

America first. Even if it's our fault letting a bunch of poor immigrants in is not the solution. You'd shoot yourself in the foot out of guilt and accomplish nothing.

America wouldn't be "first" with out it's immigrants.

This isn't a good argument to what I said. Letting the poor of the world in our back door because we feel guilty about past grievances accomplishes nothing other than making life harder for Americans.

Immigration, ideally, should be a diverse mix - large percentage of "meritorious" people with skills we need, and a smaller percentage of those that simply want to come and have no criminal record. It isn't just rich and well educated people who made a sucess here in America. It's just as often poor, less educated people who worked like hell so their children could succeed. 9 Children of Immigrants Who Fundamentally Changed the US

We have plenty of poor immigrants and poor people in general. More is not going to help us. Stop trying to make nonsense arguments to justify your bleeding heart objectives. Just say it like it is.

 

[Coyote]

Then why is white collar crime occurring at all?

I didn't say rich white people don't commit crime. I said poor uneducated people commit more crime, especially violent crime. This is a really bad argument.

It's a bad argument to claim immigrants commit more crime when statistics say otherwise.

I didn't say that. I said poor people commit more crime. Letting in millions of poor people means crime will go up and our social programs will have more burden. Be logical. Also you skipped the big post I made tearing your original arguments to shreds.

Your implication is the same - poor immigrants will commit more crime but there is no evidence to show that immigrants commit more crime.

 

[Coyote]

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

America first. Even if it's our fault letting a bunch of poor immigrants in is not the solution. You'd shoot yourself in the foot out of guilt and accomplish nothing.

America wouldn't be "first" with out it's immigrants.

This isn't a good argument to what I said. Letting the poor of the world in our back door because we feel guilty about past grievances accomplishes nothing other than making life harder for Americans.

Immigration, ideally, should be a diverse mix - large percentage of "meritorious" people with skills we need, and a smaller percentage of those that simply want to come and have no criminal record. It isn't just rich and well educated people who made a sucess here in America. It's just as often poor, less educated people who worked like hell so their children could succeed. 9 Children of Immigrants Who Fundamentally Changed the US

We have plenty of poor immigrants and poor people in general. More is not going to help us. Stop trying to make nonsense arguments to justify your bleeding heart objectives. Just say it like it is.

Stop trying to make dishonest arguments to justify your hardline objectives.

 

[Confounding]

The working poor use social programs. If we're going to have a conversation you should try to be honest. They may not use or abuse them more than anybody else, but poor immigrants DO use them. We cannot provide shelter and assistance to the poor of the world. If we're going to have good social programs we need to close the door, especially if we're ever going to implement something like universal healthcare.

If they are working...I don't care. The problem isn't with immigrants it's with our wage system.

I agree wages are a problem, but you should care about immigrants using our social programs. It's not an endless pot of goodies. We can't maintain shit like that if we let everybody in.

Why should I care about them using it anymore than anyone else using it?

Because when the number of people using it goes up it gets more expensive. I'm not willing to give to poor immigrants before poor Americans. These programs cannot be maintained if fuck loads of people are using them.

Immigrants here legally are no different than Americans imo.

You're not logical. Your world view will lead to the collapse of our social programs due to overuse. We can't save the world so we need to make hard choices.

 

[Confounding]

Then why is white collar crime occurring at all?

I didn't say rich white people don't commit crime. I said poor uneducated people commit more crime, especially violent crime. This is a really bad argument.

It's a bad argument to claim immigrants commit more crime when statistics say otherwise.

I didn't say that. I said poor people commit more crime. Letting in millions of poor people means crime will go up and our social programs will have more burden. Be logical. Also you skipped the big post I made tearing your original arguments to shreds.

Your implication is the same - poor immigrants will commit more crime but there is no evidence to show that immigrants commit more crime.

POOR PEOPLE COMMIT MORE CRIME. Poor immigrants are poor. It's not about them being from another country. It's about them being poor and uneducated. They are at a higher risk to commit crime.