Poverty and ignorance breeds crime. Economic immigrants and refugees are poor and uneducated. 2+2=4

[Kosh]

How much of our own comfort are we willing to sacrifice for this feel good bullshit? Do you have any idea how many poor and desperate people there are in the world? I'll give you a hint; there are a fuck load. The first world can't save everybody, and in attempting to do so we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot. If the left got its way we would actually be fucked. The Republicans do a lot of stupid shit, but thank fuck for their stance on immigration. If we actually want to help these people we need to figure out how to help them where they live.

Do you disappointed lefties want to know why Trump won, and why he will win again? It's because you people would fuck up everything if you had full control of the immigration situation. That one issue is hurting the left badly. If you'd just pull your heads out of your asses and focus on Americans you would start dominating elections.

Yes just look at the far left havens of Chicago and Baltimore!

 

[Decus]

How much of our own comfort are we willing to sacrifice for this feel good bullshit? Do you have any idea how many poor and desperate people there are in the world? I'll give you a hint; there are a fuck load. The first world can't save everybody, and in attempting to do so we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot. If the left got its way we would actually be fucked. The Republicans do a lot of stupid shit, but thank fuck for their stance on immigration. If we actually want to help these people we need to figure out how to help them where they live.

Do you disappointed lefties want to know why Trump won, and why he will win again? It's because you people would fuck up everything if you had full control of the immigration situation. That one issue is hurting the left badly. If you'd just pull your heads out of your asses and focus on Americans you would start dominating elections.

To help the people of the world in terrible conditions that we made for them is kinda stupid. We need to quit making other nations suffer for our gain.

The population of the world is 7.5 billion people. How many of those 7.5 billion should we offer refuge in your opinion as a Blame America First citizen?

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

Are you saying I wrecked Iraq (being part of the collective WE). How much responsibilty does Sadam have for Iraq's problems? - just curious.
.

 

[Coyote]

How much of our own comfort are we willing to sacrifice for this feel good bullshit? Do you have any idea how many poor and desperate people there are in the world? I'll give you a hint; there are a fuck load. The first world can't save everybody, and in attempting to do so we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot. If the left got its way we would actually be fucked. The Republicans do a lot of stupid shit, but thank fuck for their stance on immigration. If we actually want to help these people we need to figure out how to help them where they live.

Do you disappointed lefties want to know why Trump won, and why he will win again? It's because you people would fuck up everything if you had full control of the immigration situation. That one issue is hurting the left badly. If you'd just pull your heads out of your asses and focus on Americans you would start dominating elections.

To help the people of the world in terrible conditions that we made for them is kinda stupid. We need to quit making other nations suffer for our gain.

The population of the world is 7.5 billion people. How many of those 7.5 billion should we offer refuge in your opinion as a Blame America First citizen?

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

Are you saying I wrecked Iraq (being part of the collective WE). How much responsibilty does Sadam have for Iraq's problems? - just curious.
.

Sadam's responsibility ends with our invasion.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How much of our own comfort are we willing to sacrifice for this feel good bullshit? Do you have any idea how many poor and desperate people there are in the world? I'll give you a hint; there are a fuck load. The first world can't save everybody, and in attempting to do so we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot. If the left got its way we would actually be fucked. The Republicans do a lot of stupid shit, but thank fuck for their stance on immigration. If we actually want to help these people we need to figure out how to help them where they live.

Do you disappointed lefties want to know why Trump won, and why he will win again? It's because you people would fuck up everything if you had full control of the immigration situation. That one issue is hurting the left badly. If you'd just pull your heads out of your asses and focus on Americans you would start dominating elections.

To help the people of the world in terrible conditions that we made for them is kinda stupid. We need to quit making other nations suffer for our gain.

The population of the world is 7.5 billion people. How many of those 7.5 billion should we offer refuge in your opinion as a Blame America First citizen?

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. In most cases we go into those war torn nations and spend tens of billions rebuilding. That's enough as far as I'm concerned. We can't give a free pass to people where our battles are fought as an excuse to get into this country.

Disagree. We invaded and destabilized a country - and not for self defense.

We have a moral obligation.

And this moral obligation is written where? Why should those people be allowed in our country with a free pass because they allowed a dictator to run their country that we had to get rid of?

 

[Kosh]

How much of our own comfort are we willing to sacrifice for this feel good bullshit? Do you have any idea how many poor and desperate people there are in the world? I'll give you a hint; there are a fuck load. The first world can't save everybody, and in attempting to do so we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot. If the left got its way we would actually be fucked. The Republicans do a lot of stupid shit, but thank fuck for their stance on immigration. If we actually want to help these people we need to figure out how to help them where they live.

Do you disappointed lefties want to know why Trump won, and why he will win again? It's because you people would fuck up everything if you had full control of the immigration situation. That one issue is hurting the left badly. If you'd just pull your heads out of your asses and focus on Americans you would start dominating elections.

To help the people of the world in terrible conditions that we made for them is kinda stupid. We need to quit making other nations suffer for our gain.

The population of the world is 7.5 billion people. How many of those 7.5 billion should we offer refuge in your opinion as a Blame America First citizen?

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

Are you saying I wrecked Iraq (being part of the collective WE). How much responsibilty does Sadam have for Iraq's problems? - just curious.
.

No they are being a far left drone and pushing an off topic religious agenda!

But even Obama said that Iraq was stable, yet we still the debunked narrative other wise..

 

[Coyote]

To help the people of the world in terrible conditions that we made for them is kinda stupid. We need to quit making other nations suffer for our gain.

The population of the world is 7.5 billion people. How many of those 7.5 billion should we offer refuge in your opinion as a Blame America First citizen?

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. In most cases we go into those war torn nations and spend tens of billions rebuilding. That's enough as far as I'm concerned. We can't give a free pass to people where our battles are fought as an excuse to get into this country.

Disagree. We invaded and destabilized a country - and not for self defense.

We have a moral obligation.

And this moral obligation is written where? Why should those people be allowed in our country with a free pass because they allowed a dictator to run their country that we had to get rid of?

Why should we INVADE another country and wreck it?

 

[Decus]

One of the often repeated statements from the left is the need for fairness.
Despite all arguments to the contrary ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS represent actions and attitudes which are inherently UNFAIR to the more than 6 million people each year who apply for immigrant visas and wait to legally enter the US. Tens of millions of applicants, many who have been waiting years continue to wait while illegals jump the line.
Can the left truly claim that illegals are more deserving than the millions worldwide who have done everything asked of them and followed the law?
.

So...speaking of fairness. Why is there such a bottleneck with LEGAL immigration?

Difficulty in vetting information, insufficient staff, poor IT tools and crappy information, access and navigation of government web sites.
.

I think it comes down to one main item - outddated and archaic methods and technology. Which encompasses all you said. I think we need to update it, and speed up the system and PRIORITIZE legal immigration. Don't blame illegals for it. Improve it.

I'm not blaming illegals but your saying that our system needs to be improved does not justify illegals coming into our country. Illegals should be deported, provided an application and should wait until given a visa.
.

I'm not saying it "justifies" anything.

We are a nation of laws. As a result illegal immigration is illegal.

But we also have latititude in how and to what extent we choose to prosecute those laws. We do that with everything. We don't prosecute jaywalking the same as we do sexual assault. I would prefer to expend more resources on prosecuting crimes that are dangerous FIRST. Rapid deportation of illegals that commit violent crimes. Pursuing Meth over Marijuana. etc.

How much does jaywalking cost the nation each year?

The claim that jaywalking is the equivalent of ilĺegal immigration in terms of impact on the country is without merit.
.

 

[Coyote]

So...speaking of fairness. Why is there such a bottleneck with LEGAL immigration?

Difficulty in vetting information, insufficient staff, poor IT tools and crappy information, access and navigation of government web sites.
.

I think it comes down to one main item - outddated and archaic methods and technology. Which encompasses all you said. I think we need to update it, and speed up the system and PRIORITIZE legal immigration. Don't blame illegals for it. Improve it.

I'm not blaming illegals but your saying that our system needs to be improved does not justify illegals coming into our country. Illegals should be deported, provided an application and should wait until given a visa.
.

I'm not saying it "justifies" anything.

We are a nation of laws. As a result illegal immigration is illegal.

But we also have latititude in how and to what extent we choose to prosecute those laws. We do that with everything. We don't prosecute jaywalking the same as we do sexual assault. I would prefer to expend more resources on prosecuting crimes that are dangerous FIRST. Rapid deportation of illegals that commit violent crimes. Pursuing Meth over Marijuana. etc.

How much does jaywalking cost the nation each year?

The claim that jaywalking is the equivalent of ilĺegal immigration in terms of impact on the country is without merit.
.

The claim that rape and murder are the equivalent of illegal immigration in terms of impact is without merit also. But that doesn't stop those comparisons.

 

[Decus]

How much of our own comfort are we willing to sacrifice for this feel good bullshit? Do you have any idea how many poor and desperate people there are in the world? I'll give you a hint; there are a fuck load. The first world can't save everybody, and in attempting to do so we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot. If the left got its way we would actually be fucked. The Republicans do a lot of stupid shit, but thank fuck for their stance on immigration. If we actually want to help these people we need to figure out how to help them where they live.

Do you disappointed lefties want to know why Trump won, and why he will win again? It's because you people would fuck up everything if you had full control of the immigration situation. That one issue is hurting the left badly. If you'd just pull your heads out of your asses and focus on Americans you would start dominating elections.

To help the people of the world in terrible conditions that we made for them is kinda stupid. We need to quit making other nations suffer for our gain.

The population of the world is 7.5 billion people. How many of those 7.5 billion should we offer refuge in your opinion as a Blame America First citizen?

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

Are you saying I wrecked Iraq (being part of the collective WE). How much responsibilty does Sadam have for Iraq's problems? - just curious.
.

Sadam's responsibility ends with our invasion.

Does that mean I'm also blameless?
.

 

[Coyote]

To help the people of the world in terrible conditions that we made for them is kinda stupid. We need to quit making other nations suffer for our gain.

The population of the world is 7.5 billion people. How many of those 7.5 billion should we offer refuge in your opinion as a Blame America First citizen?

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

Are you saying I wrecked Iraq (being part of the collective WE). How much responsibilty does Sadam have for Iraq's problems? - just curious.
.

Sadam's responsibility ends with our invasion.

Does that mean I'm also blameless?
.

Personally?

 

[Confounding]

As a member of the left, no - I don't want to ignore millions of of illegal immigrants.

Right, you're just not willing to do anything meaningful to get them out, which is the same as ignoring them.

I DO want us to do OUR SHARE in alleviating the world's refugee crisis PARTICULARLY in those countries where we played a part in their demise.

It will never end. What is "our share" exactly? How many millions, and do you think it will make a real difference? I'm not willing to sacrifice the comfort of Americans.

I want illegal immigrants to be treated with the same basic human dignity and rights as any other person in America. That means if they are begging for asylum, they get their hearings, without having their children ripped away and thrown into foster care. It's nothing more than than behaving like a civilized country.

If they were seeking asylum the right way they wouldn't be illegal immigrants. There are legitimate ways to seek asylum. Crossing our border, getting caught and then crying asylum is not the right way. Children get removed for the same reason they get removed from any parent that commits a crime and goes to jail. The kids can't go with their parents to jail. They broke the law.

I don't see why that is so abhorrant to you.

What's abhorrent to me is sacrificing the comfort of Americans for feel good nonsense that doesn't actually improve the problem.

Sentence 1: contrary to rightwing mythology, immigrants don't come here for welfare. They come here to work, to try and make a better life than they left. Most work. At crap jobs.

Unrealistic nonsense. Yes, they come here for work, and yes they get shitty jobs. Much of the working poor in America are on welfare. Do you really think these poor immigrants working these low level jobs are not using our social services? Get real. Maybe if they weren't here we'd be able to give more of that help to actual Americans, on top of actual Americans getting access to those jobs once the people giving them to immigrants are forced to pay something more decent.

Sentence 2: So what? Immigrants have a lower rate of crime than native born Americans.

Poor and uneducated people are more likely to commit crime in general regardless of their ethnicity. When you let millions of poor and uneducated people into the country crime rates will go up.

They are also more likely to be victimized.

Maybe they should leave then.

Sentence 3: We were all foreigners once...

Nah, I was born here. Some of my ancestors were. This is a really bad argument. I will not sacrifice the comfort of people that were born here for the sake of people that weren't, especially when we're not fixing the problems that cause them to come here.

What diminishing quality of life and what evidence do you have that it is caused by "foreigners"?

More poor and uneducated people means more crime. It is indisputable that the poor and uneducated commit more crime and use more social services. It has nothing to do with the color of their skin. Half of my family is from Puerto Rico. I'm not racist against Hispanics.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The population of the world is 7.5 billion people. How many of those 7.5 billion should we offer refuge in your opinion as a Blame America First citizen?

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. In most cases we go into those war torn nations and spend tens of billions rebuilding. That's enough as far as I'm concerned. We can't give a free pass to people where our battles are fought as an excuse to get into this country.

Disagree. We invaded and destabilized a country - and not for self defense.

We have a moral obligation.

And this moral obligation is written where? Why should those people be allowed in our country with a free pass because they allowed a dictator to run their country that we had to get rid of?

Why should we INVADE another country and wreck it?

Because they attacked one of our allies. After we kicked them out of Kuwait, we made an agreement with them sanctioned by the UN. Saddam violated several parts of that agreement including the most important one which was being able to have the UN look where they wanted to for nefarious activities.

Saddam was a guy who just kept pushing and pushing to see how far he could go before serious resistance was met; kind of like what a child does.

 

[Decus]

Difficulty in vetting information, insufficient staff, poor IT tools and crappy information, access and navigation of government web sites.
.

I think it comes down to one main item - outddated and archaic methods and technology. Which encompasses all you said. I think we need to update it, and speed up the system and PRIORITIZE legal immigration. Don't blame illegals for it. Improve it.

I'm not blaming illegals but your saying that our system needs to be improved does not justify illegals coming into our country. Illegals should be deported, provided an application and should wait until given a visa.
.

I'm not saying it "justifies" anything.

We are a nation of laws. As a result illegal immigration is illegal.

But we also have latititude in how and to what extent we choose to prosecute those laws. We do that with everything. We don't prosecute jaywalking the same as we do sexual assault. I would prefer to expend more resources on prosecuting crimes that are dangerous FIRST. Rapid deportation of illegals that commit violent crimes. Pursuing Meth over Marijuana. etc.

How much does jaywalking cost the nation each year?

The claim that jaywalking is the equivalent of ilĺegal immigration in terms of impact on the country is without merit.
.

The claim that rape and murder are the equivalent of illegal immigration in terms of impact is without merit also. But that doesn't stop those comparisons.

That someone equated rape and murder to illegal immigration doesn't change the fact that illegals need to leave the country and apply for an immigrant visa.
If it is made clear to them that their situation will not be normalized while they are in country many will leave in order to begin the process. Making allowances for illegals sends the wrong message.
.

 

[Confounding]

If you and your ancestors thought the same millions of natives didnt have to lose their lives and land.

Yeah, I'm sorry about the native Americans, but that shit happened and we are where we are. Do you have a realistic argument to make?

 

[Coyote]

I think it comes down to one main item - outddated and archaic methods and technology. Which encompasses all you said. I think we need to update it, and speed up the system and PRIORITIZE legal immigration. Don't blame illegals for it. Improve it.

I'm not blaming illegals but your saying that our system needs to be improved does not justify illegals coming into our country. Illegals should be deported, provided an application and should wait until given a visa.
.

I'm not saying it "justifies" anything.

We are a nation of laws. As a result illegal immigration is illegal.

But we also have latititude in how and to what extent we choose to prosecute those laws. We do that with everything. We don't prosecute jaywalking the same as we do sexual assault. I would prefer to expend more resources on prosecuting crimes that are dangerous FIRST. Rapid deportation of illegals that commit violent crimes. Pursuing Meth over Marijuana. etc.

How much does jaywalking cost the nation each year?

The claim that jaywalking is the equivalent of ilĺegal immigration in terms of impact on the country is without merit.
.

The claim that rape and murder are the equivalent of illegal immigration in terms of impact is without merit also. But that doesn't stop those comparisons.

That someone equated rape and murder to illegal immigration doesn't change the fact that illegals need to leave the country and apply for an immigrant visa.
If it is made clear to them that their situation will not be normalized while they are in country many will leave in order to begin the process. Making allowances for illegals sends the wrong message.
.

How about making allowances for jaywalkers? Speeders?

 

[BrokeLoser]

Many immigrants come to America out of poverty through out our history.

Is there a point here?

This is the year 2018 and we face problems unique to the era we live in. The left wants to invite in millions of immigrants/refugees and ignore millions more illegal ones, and God only knows how bad it would be without Republican opposition.

As a member of the left, no - I don't want to ignore millions of of illegal immigrants. I DO want us to do OUR SHARE in alleviating the world's refugee crisis PARTICULARLY in those countries where we played a part in their demise.

I want illegal immigrants to be treated with the same basic human dignity and rights as any other person in America. That means if they are begging for asylum, they get their hearings, without having their children ripped away and thrown into foster care. It's nothing more than than behaving like a civilized country.

I don't see why that is so abhorrant to you.

How can we hope to have affordable social programs for Americans with that going on? Also poor and uneducated people are going to commit more crime. I recognize not all of them will do that, but a lot will because they're poor and uneducated. I personally can't justify increased victimization of Americans for the sake of foreigners.

Sentence 1: contrary to rightwing mythology, immigrants don't come here for welfare. They come here to work, to try and make a better life than they left. Most work. At crap jobs.

Sentence 2: So what? Immigrants have a lower rate of crime than native born Americans. They are also more likely to be victimized.

Sentence 3: We were all foreigners once...

Unsurprisingly diminishing the quality of life in America for the sake of foreigners is becoming more and more unpopular among voters.

What diminishing quality of life and what evidence do you have that it is caused by "foreigners"?

I addressed your points.

One of the often repeated statements from the left is the need for fairness.
Despite all arguments to the contrary ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS represent actions and attitudes which are inherently UNFAIR to the more than 6 million people each year who apply for immigrant visas and wait to legally enter the US. Tens of millions of applicants, many who have been waiting years continue to wait while illegals jump the line.
Can the left truly claim that illegals are more deserving than the millions worldwide who have done everything asked of them and followed the law?
.

So...speaking of fairness. Why is there such a bottleneck with LEGAL immigration?

This is super simple...the U.S. does not need anymore low grade, low iQ citizens...we have plenty.

 

[Confounding]

Then why is white collar crime occurring at all?

I didn't say rich white people don't commit crime. I said poor uneducated people commit more crime, especially violent crime. This is a really bad argument.

 

[Confounding]

Confounding hates poor immigrants

No, I just don't think that our country should be worried about humanitarian efforts when we are trillions in debt and have our own very serious problems to work out.

 

[Confounding]

So...speaking of fairness. Why is there such a bottleneck with LEGAL immigration?

We don't need more poor and uneducated people in the United States. Automation is in the process of destroying low skilled work and there are Americans that need those jobs.

 

[Confounding]

Sentence 1: contrary to rightwing mythology, immigrants don't come here for welfare. They come here to work, to try and make a better life than they left. Most work. At crap jobs.

If they didn't come here for welfare, why do so many legal immigrants end up on our social programs?

They don't. Most are working - possibly the working poor - but working. Doesn't that mean anything anymore?

Do Undocumented Immigrants Overuse Government Benefits? | Econofact

The working poor use social programs. If we're going to have a conversation you should try to be honest. They may not use or abuse them more than anybody else, but poor immigrants DO use them. We cannot provide shelter and assistance to the poor of the world. If we're going to have good social programs we need to close the door, especially if we're ever going to implement something like universal healthcare.