Poverty and ignorance breeds crime. Economic immigrants and refugees are poor and uneducated. 2+2=4

[Coyote]

If they are working...I don't care. The problem isn't with immigrants it's with our wage system.

I agree wages are a problem, but you should care about immigrants using our social programs. It's not an endless pot of goodies. We can't maintain shit like that if we let everybody in.

Why should I care about them using it anymore than anyone else using it?

Because when the number of people using it goes up it gets more expensive. I'm not willing to give to poor immigrants before poor Americans. These programs cannot be maintained if fuck loads of people are using them.

Immigrants here legally are no different than Americans imo.

You're not logical. Your world view will lead to the collapse of our social programs due to overuse. We can't save the world so we need to make hard choices.

There is no need for a chicken little "the sky is falling" scenario. We aren't there. Immigration provides a net gain for America, not a net loss.

 

[Decus]

How much does jaywalking cost the nation each year?

The claim that jaywalking is the equivalent of ilĺegal immigration in terms of impact on the country is without merit.
.

The claim that rape and murder are the equivalent of illegal immigration in terms of impact is without merit also. But that doesn't stop those comparisons.

That someone equated rape and murder to illegal immigration doesn't change the fact that illegals need to leave the country and apply for an immigrant visa.
If it is made clear to them that their situation will not be normalized while they are in country many will leave in order to begin the process. Making allowances for illegals sends the wrong message.
.

How about making allowances for jaywalkers? Speeders?

Jaywalkers and speeders should be prosecuted. I have paid a fortune in speeding fines and my insurance has gone through the roof despite not having had a wreck or running anyone over. I can't complain because I broke the law.
.

But they aren't. And there is no CALL for it.

The reality is we have finite resources and manpower. Where do you put it?

Speèders aren't prosecuted??? That is not my experience. In fact quite the contrary given the fines, safe driving schools and my high insurance premiums.
.

 

[Coyote]

Then why is white collar crime occurring at all?

I didn't say rich white people don't commit crime. I said poor uneducated people commit more crime, especially violent crime. This is a really bad argument.

It's a bad argument to claim immigrants commit more crime when statistics say otherwise.

I didn't say that. I said poor people commit more crime. Letting in millions of poor people means crime will go up and our social programs will have more burden. Be logical. Also you skipped the big post I made tearing your original arguments to shreds.

Your implication is the same - poor immigrants will commit more crime but there is no evidence to show that immigrants commit more crime.

POOR PEOPLE COMMIT MORE CRIME. Poor immigrants are poor. It's not about them being from another country. It's about them being poor and uneducated. They are at a higher risk to commit crime.

But DO they?

 

[Confounding]

America first. Even if it's our fault letting a bunch of poor immigrants in is not the solution. You'd shoot yourself in the foot out of guilt and accomplish nothing.

America wouldn't be "first" with out it's immigrants.

This isn't a good argument to what I said. Letting the poor of the world in our back door because we feel guilty about past grievances accomplishes nothing other than making life harder for Americans.

Immigration, ideally, should be a diverse mix - large percentage of "meritorious" people with skills we need, and a smaller percentage of those that simply want to come and have no criminal record. It isn't just rich and well educated people who made a sucess here in America. It's just as often poor, less educated people who worked like hell so their children could succeed. 9 Children of Immigrants Who Fundamentally Changed the US

We have plenty of poor immigrants and poor people in general. More is not going to help us. Stop trying to make nonsense arguments to justify your bleeding heart objectives. Just say it like it is.

Stop trying to make dishonest arguments to justify your hardline objectives.

You once again avoided the main point and responded with nothing. When are you going to respond to the big post I made earlier?

 

[Confounding]

I didn't say rich white people don't commit crime. I said poor uneducated people commit more crime, especially violent crime. This is a really bad argument.

It's a bad argument to claim immigrants commit more crime when statistics say otherwise.

I didn't say that. I said poor people commit more crime. Letting in millions of poor people means crime will go up and our social programs will have more burden. Be logical. Also you skipped the big post I made tearing your original arguments to shreds.

Your implication is the same - poor immigrants will commit more crime but there is no evidence to show that immigrants commit more crime.

POOR PEOPLE COMMIT MORE CRIME. Poor immigrants are poor. It's not about them being from another country. It's about them being poor and uneducated. They are at a higher risk to commit crime.

But DO they?

Yes, because they are poor. Not because they are brown people. Poor white people commit more crime too, as well as poor black people. We do not need more poor people in America.

 

[Coyote]

The claim that rape and murder are the equivalent of illegal immigration in terms of impact is without merit also. But that doesn't stop those comparisons.

That someone equated rape and murder to illegal immigration doesn't change the fact that illegals need to leave the country and apply for an immigrant visa.
If it is made clear to them that their situation will not be normalized while they are in country many will leave in order to begin the process. Making allowances for illegals sends the wrong message.
.

How about making allowances for jaywalkers? Speeders?

Jaywalkers and speeders should be prosecuted. I have paid a fortune in speeding fines and my insurance has gone through the roof despite not having had a wreck or running anyone over. I can't complain because I broke the law.
.

But they aren't. And there is no CALL for it.

The reality is we have finite resources and manpower. Where do you put it?

Speèders aren't prosecuted??? That is not my experience. In fact quite the contrary given the fines, safe driving schools and my high insurance premiums.
.

Going by my personal observation of traffic on I68...I can be going 85 and keeping up with the mainstream traffic. And no one pulled over.

It's also a bit of wisdom that they give you a 10mph grace (unless you're in small town America where falls to 25mph going through town).

 

[Coyote]

America wouldn't be "first" with out it's immigrants.

This isn't a good argument to what I said. Letting the poor of the world in our back door because we feel guilty about past grievances accomplishes nothing other than making life harder for Americans.

Immigration, ideally, should be a diverse mix - large percentage of "meritorious" people with skills we need, and a smaller percentage of those that simply want to come and have no criminal record. It isn't just rich and well educated people who made a sucess here in America. It's just as often poor, less educated people who worked like hell so their children could succeed. 9 Children of Immigrants Who Fundamentally Changed the US

We have plenty of poor immigrants and poor people in general. More is not going to help us. Stop trying to make nonsense arguments to justify your bleeding heart objectives. Just say it like it is.

Stop trying to make dishonest arguments to justify your hardline objectives.

You once again avoided the main point and responded with nothing. When are you going to respond to the big post I made earlier?

Which post?

 

[Coyote]

It's a bad argument to claim immigrants commit more crime when statistics say otherwise.

I didn't say that. I said poor people commit more crime. Letting in millions of poor people means crime will go up and our social programs will have more burden. Be logical. Also you skipped the big post I made tearing your original arguments to shreds.

Your implication is the same - poor immigrants will commit more crime but there is no evidence to show that immigrants commit more crime.

POOR PEOPLE COMMIT MORE CRIME. Poor immigrants are poor. It's not about them being from another country. It's about them being poor and uneducated. They are at a higher risk to commit crime.

But DO they?

Yes, because they are poor. Not because they are brown people. Poor white people commit more crime too, as well as poor black people. We do not need more poor people in America.

I didn't say anything about brown people.

 

[Confounding]

This isn't a good argument to what I said. Letting the poor of the world in our back door because we feel guilty about past grievances accomplishes nothing other than making life harder for Americans.

Immigration, ideally, should be a diverse mix - large percentage of "meritorious" people with skills we need, and a smaller percentage of those that simply want to come and have no criminal record. It isn't just rich and well educated people who made a sucess here in America. It's just as often poor, less educated people who worked like hell so their children could succeed. 9 Children of Immigrants Who Fundamentally Changed the US

We have plenty of poor immigrants and poor people in general. More is not going to help us. Stop trying to make nonsense arguments to justify your bleeding heart objectives. Just say it like it is.

Stop trying to make dishonest arguments to justify your hardline objectives.

You once again avoided the main point and responded with nothing. When are you going to respond to the big post I made earlier?

Which post?

The large one I made in response to what you originally said. I'm sure it'd be a waste of my time if I decided to read whatever response you can come up with, but I'd like to see it anyway. You're not responding to a lot of my arguments because this isn't about logic for you.

 

[Confounding]

I didn't say that. I said poor people commit more crime. Letting in millions of poor people means crime will go up and our social programs will have more burden. Be logical. Also you skipped the big post I made tearing your original arguments to shreds.

Your implication is the same - poor immigrants will commit more crime but there is no evidence to show that immigrants commit more crime.

POOR PEOPLE COMMIT MORE CRIME. Poor immigrants are poor. It's not about them being from another country. It's about them being poor and uneducated. They are at a higher risk to commit crime.

But DO they?

Yes, because they are poor. Not because they are brown people. Poor white people commit more crime too, as well as poor black people. We do not need more poor people in America.

I didn't say anything about brown people.

Poor people commit more crime. It's true everywhere on Earth.

 

[toobfreak]

Poverty and ignorance breeds crime. Economic immigrants and refugees are poor and uneducated.

I guess what throws me for a loop is:
POVERTY: How can the USA have poverty when all one has to do is get on one of the Left's grand government programs to get out of poverty toot sweet?! What are these people waiting for? The government will help you out the way Trump's daddy helped him and soon, you'll be a billionaire!
IGNORANCE: How can we have ignorance when the free, mandatory government-run public schools will teach you everything? Just gotta sign up!
IMMIGRANTS & REFUGEES: How can these be a bad thing when diversity is great and these merely add to diversity? A greater diversity of more different people more differently educated and economically placed? That just has to be a golden staircase to a Greater America!

And by that reasoning, the fastest way then to improve America the most is to flood ourselves with impoverished, illiterate folks! Oh wait, the Democrats are already trying to do this.

 

[Care4all]

Are you saying we have no responsibility for the countries we wrecked (thinking of Iraq here...)?

America first. Even if it's our fault letting a bunch of poor immigrants in is not the solution. You'd shoot yourself in the foot out of guilt and accomplish nothing.

America wouldn't be "first" with out it's immigrants.

This isn't a good argument to what I said. Letting the poor of the world in our back door because we feel guilty about past grievances accomplishes nothing other than making life harder for Americans.

Immigration, ideally, should be a diverse mix - large percentage of "meritorious" people with skills we need, and a smaller percentage of those that simply want to come and have no criminal record. It isn't just rich and well educated people who made a sucess here in America. It's just as often poor, less educated people who worked like hell so their children could succeed. 9 Children of Immigrants Who Fundamentally Changed the US

We have plenty of poor immigrants and poor people in general. More is not going to help us. Stop trying to make nonsense arguments to justify your bleeding heart objectives. Just say it like it is.

in general, it is 1 generation that is poor with immigrants/refugees...the adults that escaped to here who are uneducated, but their kids become productive, tax paying citizens....much like the Dreamers/DACA....

 

[Decus]

That someone equated rape and murder to illegal immigration doesn't change the fact that illegals need to leave the country and apply for an immigrant visa.
If it is made clear to them that their situation will not be normalized while they are in country many will leave in order to begin the process. Making allowances for illegals sends the wrong message.
.

How about making allowances for jaywalkers? Speeders?

Jaywalkers and speeders should be prosecuted. I have paid a fortune in speeding fines and my insurance has gone through the roof despite not having had a wreck or running anyone over. I can't complain because I broke the law.
.

But they aren't. And there is no CALL for it.

The reality is we have finite resources and manpower. Where do you put it?

Speèders aren't prosecuted??? That is not my experience. In fact quite the contrary given the fines, safe driving schools and my high insurance premiums.
.

Going by my personal observation of traffic on I68...I can be going 85 and keeping up with the mainstream traffic. And no one pulled over.

It's also a bit of wisdom that they give you a 10mph grace (unless you're in small town America where falls to 25mph going through town).

What if they catch you? Should you be released without receiving a ticket? Is that what you'd expect?
.
.

 

[Confounding]

America first. Even if it's our fault letting a bunch of poor immigrants in is not the solution. You'd shoot yourself in the foot out of guilt and accomplish nothing.

America wouldn't be "first" with out it's immigrants.

This isn't a good argument to what I said. Letting the poor of the world in our back door because we feel guilty about past grievances accomplishes nothing other than making life harder for Americans.

Immigration, ideally, should be a diverse mix - large percentage of "meritorious" people with skills we need, and a smaller percentage of those that simply want to come and have no criminal record. It isn't just rich and well educated people who made a sucess here in America. It's just as often poor, less educated people who worked like hell so their children could succeed. 9 Children of Immigrants Who Fundamentally Changed the US

We have plenty of poor immigrants and poor people in general. More is not going to help us. Stop trying to make nonsense arguments to justify your bleeding heart objectives. Just say it like it is.

in general, it is 1 generation that is poor with immigrants/refugees...the adults that escaped to here who are uneducated, but their kids become productive, tax paying citizens....much like the Dreamers/DACA....

They often do better than their parents because they actually speak the language and get to use our public schools. That doesn't mean they are particularly successful. Other than exceptions to the rule they tend to stay poor. We do not need more poor people.

 

[Theowl32]

I wonder why so many poor people from all of those socialist paradises are so desperate to get here.

I wonder why poor people from here are not desperately moving to those socialist paradises.

Can you believe there are actual Americans living in this land of evil capitalism, where our poor people are fat, want to have a full totalitarian Venezuela style of a system?!

Btw, those large groups of poor are simply an opportunity for those left wing politicians who...WANT A TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT, to convert to robotic votes. That is all they are to democrats and we all know it.

That is the reason the left want to do away with our REPUBLIC. This is why they want POPULAR VOTE. This is why we are not nor have ever been a DEMOCRACY. Go ahead, look for the word DEMOCRACY in the Constitution or Declaration of Independence. You won't find it. Guess why.

Here is where the left will now deny they are socialists/marxists. They are demented losers. It would be funny, if they were not taking over the world like they are.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

How much of our own comfort are we willing to sacrifice for this feel good bullshit? Do you have any idea how many poor and desperate people there are in the world? I'll give you a hint; there are a fuck load. The first world can't save everybody, and in attempting to do so we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot. If the left got its way we would actually be fucked. The Republicans do a lot of stupid shit, but thank fuck for their stance on immigration. If we actually want to help these people we need to figure out how to help them where they live.

Do you disappointed lefties want to know why Trump won, and why he will win again? It's because you people would fuck up everything if you had full control of the immigration situation. That one issue is hurting the left badly. If you'd just pull your heads out of your asses and focus on Americans you would start dominating elections.

Its up to Americans to stand up and be counted to keep and put this Nation back on track. Voting and education of you kids are the two most important things you can do. Education does not mean going to college only, but trade school or training by a company in a trade. Trade means anything that they can make a living at and make sure your female are able to get training also. I make sure that my girls could make a living without needing a guy to support them. It was not a easy thing to do. Some of us need to run for the local and state offices to keep the libs from loading the ballot with their people. We need to take a wider view of this Nation and put the Backers of the Libs out of the pix. I mean people like Soros and Gates and other from other Nations from undermine this Nation and the Constitution. We can never return to the simpler times for those years have pasted into History only the future can we determine our path.

 

[Care4all]

America wouldn't be "first" with out it's immigrants.

This isn't a good argument to what I said. Letting the poor of the world in our back door because we feel guilty about past grievances accomplishes nothing other than making life harder for Americans.

Immigration, ideally, should be a diverse mix - large percentage of "meritorious" people with skills we need, and a smaller percentage of those that simply want to come and have no criminal record. It isn't just rich and well educated people who made a sucess here in America. It's just as often poor, less educated people who worked like hell so their children could succeed. 9 Children of Immigrants Who Fundamentally Changed the US

We have plenty of poor immigrants and poor people in general. More is not going to help us. Stop trying to make nonsense arguments to justify your bleeding heart objectives. Just say it like it is.

in general, it is 1 generation that is poor with immigrants/refugees...the adults that escaped to here who are uneducated, but their kids become productive, tax paying citizens....much like the Dreamers/DACA....

They often do better than their parents because they actually speak the language and get to use our public schools. That doesn't mean they are particularly successful. Other than exceptions to the rule they tend to stay poor. We do not need more poor people.

Yes that is true that due to no language barrier they tend to do better.... but it is more than that.... and they do just as well as any other average American whose family has been here generations....

and believe it or not, many of the children of these immigrants//refugees move out of poverty....

the 20 million adult U.S.-born children of immigrants—are substantially better off than immigrants themselves on key measures of socioeconomic attainment, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of U.S. Census Bureau data. They have higher incomes; more are college graduates and homeowners; and fewer live in poverty.

Now granted, that is the statistic for ALL immigrant's children, not just refugees, but legal and illegal and refugee, and those that come here legally may help skew those figures....

but overall, the children do well...partly because many are grateful and taught to be grateful for the USA saving their butts from the awful country they or their parents came from....
imo.
Second-Generation Americans

 

[Confounding]

and believe it or not, many of the children of these immigrants//refugees move out of poverty....

Not most though, or anything close to most. Pay attention to the wording in the article. More go to college, more escape poverty etc. Those are not specific statements. It simply means the second generation does a little better than the first. They are still mostly poor and they are still a drain on our social programs.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

How much of our own comfort are we willing to sacrifice for this feel good bullshit? Do you have any idea how many poor and desperate people there are in the world? I'll give you a hint; there are a fuck load. The first world can't save everybody, and in attempting to do so we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot. If the left got its way we would actually be fucked. The Republicans do a lot of stupid shit, but thank fuck for their stance on immigration. If we actually want to help these people we need to figure out how to help them where they live.

Do you disappointed lefties want to know why Trump won, and why he will win again? It's because you people would fuck up everything if you had full control of the immigration situation. That one issue is hurting the left badly. If you'd just pull your heads out of your asses and focus on Americans you would start dominating elections.

Many immigrants come to America out of poverty through out our history.

Is there a point here?

Sure, a lot of Irish, and Polish immigrants came here poor, and moved up.

However, Ireland, and Poland were severely oppressed, Ireland was up until 1918, and Ireland became rich, Poland was severely oppressed until 1989, and is becoming fairly wealthy as we speak.

The fact is Mexico hasn't been oppressed in that manner for nearly 200 years, and hasn't really moved anywhere.

Obviously Mexico isn't doing something right, either their government, their work ethic, intelligence, or breeding habits hold back their nation.

I can't think of any reason to import them here, can you?

 

[Issa]

If you and your ancestors thought the same millions of natives didnt have to lose their lives and land.

Yeah, I'm sorry about the native Americans, but that shit happened and we are where we are. Do you have a realistic argument to make?

My argument is since conservatives talk about God and jesus all the time, this earth was created to humans and not just for one race or nationality...as your race fled for a better race and made this land safe for you although you killed millions in the process, dont be a dick and deny others a better life and safety. Jesus wouldn't be q dick like you and your orange would he ?