San Souci
Diamond Member
- Feb 4, 2020
- 6,293
- 4,867
- 1,940
If the Repubs win both houses ,it will be time to impeach both Biden and Pig Harris.
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Putin Declares War on the Ukraine
- Thread starter PinktheFloyd88
- Start date
JGalt
Diamond Member
- Mar 9, 2011
- 71,686
- 86,840
- 3,635
No, Ukraine without nazies would be enough for now. And cleaning up going on.
Nazis? There are Germans in Ukraine?
That does not apply to the five permanent members. Plus China still wouldn't allow it.Turns out Article 27 would prevent Russia from voting if it happens to be involved in a dispute with another UN member.
Article 27, Clause 3.
"Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes of the permanent members; provided that, in decisions under Chapter VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall abstain from voting."
EvilCat Breath
Diamond Member
- Sep 23, 2016
- 78,670
- 54,615
- 2,645
Get a republican speaker and you have a deal. But that couldn't happen before November. By then we will be in some serious, serious trouble.If the Repubs win both houses ,it will be time to impeach both Biden and Pig Harris.
Ringo
Gold Member
Really? That's your question?|Nazis? There are Germans in Ukraine?
- Sep 16, 2012
- 59,464
- 53,233
- 3,605
The reason for the invasion is because we have a weak leader....
TemplarKormac
Political Atheist
I am reading relevant parts of the charter now. But I don't see how Russia or China could be exempt from the rules simply because they are founding members. If a board of directors can fire a CEO, the majority of the UNESCO members can (or should be able to) expel Russia for invading and China for standing by and doing nothing.That does not apply to the five permanent members. Plus China still wouldn't allow it.
San Souci
Diamond Member
- Feb 4, 2020
- 6,293
- 4,867
- 1,940
Already are. I was 12 during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kennedy caused that by showing weakness in the Bay of Pigs incident. Almost caused a Nuke War. Biden is FAR weaker than Kennedy.Get a republican speaker and you have a deal. But that couldn't happen before November. By then we will be in some serious, serious trouble.
TemplarKormac
Political Atheist
Okay then, exceptional circumstances must be declared by the other 7 members of UNESCO to expel Russia. Would there be any way to get around this?
Faster to read up on the Korean War and the UN. You will find everything cited as it applied to a real world situation.I am reading relevant parts of the charter now. But I don't see how Russia or China could be exempt from the rules simply because they are founding members. If a board of directors can fire a CEO, the majority of the UNESCO members can expel Russia for invading and China for standing by and doing nothing.
The veto power of permanent members is absolute, by design, for situations like this.
Ringo
Gold Member
From Putin's statement
In March 2021, Ukraine adopted a new Military Strategy. This document is almost entirely devoted to the confrontation with Russia, aims to draw foreign states into a conflict with our country. The strategy suggests the organization in the Russian Crimea and on the territory of Donbass, in fact, a terrorist underground. The outlines of the alleged war are also spelled out in it, and it should end, as it seems to today's Kiev strategists, I will quote further – "with the assistance of the international community on favorable terms for Ukraine." And also, as they say today in Kiev, I am also quoting here, listen more carefully, please – "with the military support of the world community in the geopolitical confrontation with the Russian Federation." In fact, this is nothing more than preparation for military operations against our country – against Russia.
We also know that statements have already been made that Ukraine is going to create its own nuclear weapons, and this is not empty bravado. Ukraine does indeed have Soviet nuclear technologies and means of delivering such weapons, including aviation, as well as operational-tactical missiles "Tochka-U", also of Soviet design, whose range exceeds 100 kilometers. But they will do more, it's only a matter of time. There are groundwork from the Soviet era.
Thus, it will be much easier for Ukraine to acquire tactical nuclear weapons than for some other states, I will not name them now, actually leading such developments, especially in the case of technological support from abroad. And we shouldn't rule that out either.
With the appearance of weapons of mass destruction in Ukraine, the situation in the world, in Europe, especially for us, for Russia, will change dramatically. We cannot but react to this real danger, especially, I repeat, that Western patrons can facilitate the appearance of such weapons in Ukraine in order to create another threat to our country. We see how persistently the military pumping of the Kiev regime is being carried out. The United States alone, since 2014, has allocated billions of dollars for these purposes, including the supply of weapons, equipment, and training of specialists. In recent months, Western weapons have been coming to Ukraine in a continuous stream, demonstratively, in front of the whole world. The activities of the armed forces and special services of Ukraine are led by foreign advisers, we know this well.
In recent years, under the pretext of exercises, military contingents of NATO countries have been almost constantly present on the territory of Ukraine. The control system of the Ukrainian troops has already been integrated with the NATO ones. This means that the command of the Ukrainian armed forces, even individual units and subunits, can be directly carried out from the NATO headquarters.
The United States and NATO have begun the shameless development of the territory of Ukraine as a theater of potential military operations. Regular joint exercises have a clear anti-Russian orientation. Last year alone, more than 23 thousand servicemen and over a thousand pieces of equipment participated in them.
A law has already been adopted on the admission of the armed forces of other states to the territory of Ukraine in 2022 to participate in multinational exercises. It is clear that we are talking primarily about NATO troops. And in the coming year, at least ten such joint maneuvers are planned.
It is obvious that such events serve as a cover for the rapid buildup of the NATO military group on the territory of Ukraine. Moreover, the network of airfields modernized with the help of the Americans - Boryspil, Ivano-Frankivsk, Chuguev, Odessa, and so on - is able to ensure the transfer of military units in the shortest possible time. The airspace of Ukraine is open for flights of strategic and reconnaissance aircraft of the United States, unmanned aerial vehicles that are used to monitor the territory of Russia.
I will add that the Center of Naval Operations built by the Americans in Ochakov allows for the actions of NATO ships, including their use of precision weapons against the Russian Black Sea Fleet and our infrastructure on the entire Black Sea coast. At one time, the United States intended to create similar facilities in the Crimea, but the Crimeans and Sevastopol residents thwarted these plans. We will always remember this.
I repeat, today such a center has been deployed, already deployed in Ochakov. Let me remind you that in the XVIII century, Alexander Suvorov's soldiers fought for this city. Thanks to their courage, it became part of Russia. At the same time, in the XVIII century, the lands of the Black Sea region, annexed to Russia as a result of the wars with the Ottoman Empire, were called Novorossiya. Now these milestones of history are being tried to be forgotten, as are the names of state military figures of the Russian Empire, without whose labors modern Ukraine would not have many large cities and even the very exit to the Black Sea.
Recently, a monument to Alexander Suvorov was demolished in Poltava. What can I say? Are you abandoning your own past? From the so-called colonial legacy of the Russian Empire? Well, then be consistent here.
Further. I would like to note that article 17 of the Constitution of Ukraine does not allow the deployment of foreign military bases on its territory. But it turned out that this is just a convention that can be easily circumvented.
NATO training missions have been deployed in Ukraine. These, in fact, are already foreign military bases. They just called the base a "mission" and that's it.
Kiev has long proclaimed a strategic course for joining NATO. Yes, of course, every country has the right to choose its own security system and conclude military alliances. And everything seems to be like this, if not for one "but". International documents explicitly state the principle of equal and indivisible security, which, as is known, includes obligations not to strengthen one's security at the expense of the security of other States. I can refer here to the 1999 OSCE Charter for European Security, adopted in Istanbul, and the 2010 OSCE Astana Declaration.
In other words, the choice of ways to ensure security should not pose a threat to other states, and Ukraine's accession to NATO is a direct threat to Russia's security.
Let me remind you that back in April 2008, at the Bucharest summit of the North Atlantic Alliance, the United States pushed through the decision that Ukraine and, by the way, Georgia would become NATO members. Many European allies of the United States were already well aware of all the risks of such a prospect, but were forced to accept the will of a senior partner. The Americans simply used them to carry out a pronounced anti-Russian policy.
A number of member states of the Alliance are still very skeptical about the appearance of Ukraine in NATO. At the same time, we receive a signal from some European capitals, saying: "What are you going through? It's not going to happen literally tomorrow." Actually, our American partners are also talking about this. "Well," we reply– "if not tomorrow, then the day after tomorrow. What does this change in historical perspective? In fact, nothing."
Moreover, we know the position and words of the leadership of the United States that active hostilities in the east of Ukraine do not exclude the possibility of this country joining NATO if it can meet the criteria of the North Atlantic Alliance and defeat corruption.
At the same time, they try to convince us over and over again that NATO is a peaceful and purely defensive alliance. They say there are no threats to Russia. Again, they offer to take my word for it. But we know the real price of such words well. In 1990, when the issue of the unification of Germany was discussed, the Soviet leadership was promised by the United States that there would be no extension of jurisdiction
In March 2021, Ukraine adopted a new Military Strategy. This document is almost entirely devoted to the confrontation with Russia, aims to draw foreign states into a conflict with our country. The strategy suggests the organization in the Russian Crimea and on the territory of Donbass, in fact, a terrorist underground. The outlines of the alleged war are also spelled out in it, and it should end, as it seems to today's Kiev strategists, I will quote further – "with the assistance of the international community on favorable terms for Ukraine." And also, as they say today in Kiev, I am also quoting here, listen more carefully, please – "with the military support of the world community in the geopolitical confrontation with the Russian Federation." In fact, this is nothing more than preparation for military operations against our country – against Russia.
We also know that statements have already been made that Ukraine is going to create its own nuclear weapons, and this is not empty bravado. Ukraine does indeed have Soviet nuclear technologies and means of delivering such weapons, including aviation, as well as operational-tactical missiles "Tochka-U", also of Soviet design, whose range exceeds 100 kilometers. But they will do more, it's only a matter of time. There are groundwork from the Soviet era.
Thus, it will be much easier for Ukraine to acquire tactical nuclear weapons than for some other states, I will not name them now, actually leading such developments, especially in the case of technological support from abroad. And we shouldn't rule that out either.
With the appearance of weapons of mass destruction in Ukraine, the situation in the world, in Europe, especially for us, for Russia, will change dramatically. We cannot but react to this real danger, especially, I repeat, that Western patrons can facilitate the appearance of such weapons in Ukraine in order to create another threat to our country. We see how persistently the military pumping of the Kiev regime is being carried out. The United States alone, since 2014, has allocated billions of dollars for these purposes, including the supply of weapons, equipment, and training of specialists. In recent months, Western weapons have been coming to Ukraine in a continuous stream, demonstratively, in front of the whole world. The activities of the armed forces and special services of Ukraine are led by foreign advisers, we know this well.
In recent years, under the pretext of exercises, military contingents of NATO countries have been almost constantly present on the territory of Ukraine. The control system of the Ukrainian troops has already been integrated with the NATO ones. This means that the command of the Ukrainian armed forces, even individual units and subunits, can be directly carried out from the NATO headquarters.
The United States and NATO have begun the shameless development of the territory of Ukraine as a theater of potential military operations. Regular joint exercises have a clear anti-Russian orientation. Last year alone, more than 23 thousand servicemen and over a thousand pieces of equipment participated in them.
A law has already been adopted on the admission of the armed forces of other states to the territory of Ukraine in 2022 to participate in multinational exercises. It is clear that we are talking primarily about NATO troops. And in the coming year, at least ten such joint maneuvers are planned.
It is obvious that such events serve as a cover for the rapid buildup of the NATO military group on the territory of Ukraine. Moreover, the network of airfields modernized with the help of the Americans - Boryspil, Ivano-Frankivsk, Chuguev, Odessa, and so on - is able to ensure the transfer of military units in the shortest possible time. The airspace of Ukraine is open for flights of strategic and reconnaissance aircraft of the United States, unmanned aerial vehicles that are used to monitor the territory of Russia.
I will add that the Center of Naval Operations built by the Americans in Ochakov allows for the actions of NATO ships, including their use of precision weapons against the Russian Black Sea Fleet and our infrastructure on the entire Black Sea coast. At one time, the United States intended to create similar facilities in the Crimea, but the Crimeans and Sevastopol residents thwarted these plans. We will always remember this.
I repeat, today such a center has been deployed, already deployed in Ochakov. Let me remind you that in the XVIII century, Alexander Suvorov's soldiers fought for this city. Thanks to their courage, it became part of Russia. At the same time, in the XVIII century, the lands of the Black Sea region, annexed to Russia as a result of the wars with the Ottoman Empire, were called Novorossiya. Now these milestones of history are being tried to be forgotten, as are the names of state military figures of the Russian Empire, without whose labors modern Ukraine would not have many large cities and even the very exit to the Black Sea.
Recently, a monument to Alexander Suvorov was demolished in Poltava. What can I say? Are you abandoning your own past? From the so-called colonial legacy of the Russian Empire? Well, then be consistent here.
Further. I would like to note that article 17 of the Constitution of Ukraine does not allow the deployment of foreign military bases on its territory. But it turned out that this is just a convention that can be easily circumvented.
NATO training missions have been deployed in Ukraine. These, in fact, are already foreign military bases. They just called the base a "mission" and that's it.
Kiev has long proclaimed a strategic course for joining NATO. Yes, of course, every country has the right to choose its own security system and conclude military alliances. And everything seems to be like this, if not for one "but". International documents explicitly state the principle of equal and indivisible security, which, as is known, includes obligations not to strengthen one's security at the expense of the security of other States. I can refer here to the 1999 OSCE Charter for European Security, adopted in Istanbul, and the 2010 OSCE Astana Declaration.
In other words, the choice of ways to ensure security should not pose a threat to other states, and Ukraine's accession to NATO is a direct threat to Russia's security.
Let me remind you that back in April 2008, at the Bucharest summit of the North Atlantic Alliance, the United States pushed through the decision that Ukraine and, by the way, Georgia would become NATO members. Many European allies of the United States were already well aware of all the risks of such a prospect, but were forced to accept the will of a senior partner. The Americans simply used them to carry out a pronounced anti-Russian policy.
A number of member states of the Alliance are still very skeptical about the appearance of Ukraine in NATO. At the same time, we receive a signal from some European capitals, saying: "What are you going through? It's not going to happen literally tomorrow." Actually, our American partners are also talking about this. "Well," we reply– "if not tomorrow, then the day after tomorrow. What does this change in historical perspective? In fact, nothing."
Moreover, we know the position and words of the leadership of the United States that active hostilities in the east of Ukraine do not exclude the possibility of this country joining NATO if it can meet the criteria of the North Atlantic Alliance and defeat corruption.
At the same time, they try to convince us over and over again that NATO is a peaceful and purely defensive alliance. They say there are no threats to Russia. Again, they offer to take my word for it. But we know the real price of such words well. In 1990, when the issue of the unification of Germany was discussed, the Soviet leadership was promised by the United States that there would be no extension of jurisdiction
TemplarKormac
Political Atheist
United Nations Security Council veto power - Wikipedia
TemplarKormac
Political Atheist
Faster to read up on the Korean War and the UN. You will find everything cited as it applied to a real world situation.
The veto power of permanent members is absolute, by design, for situations like this.
I just posted something, though not concrete or ever tried, that could be a way to circumvent a veto. See previous post.
I will look for resolutions passed by the UN during the Korean War, though.
Ringo
Gold Member
The Russian Defense Ministry reported on the disabling of the military infrastructure of Ukraine, including military airfields, RIA Novosti reports.
According to the ministry, military infrastructure, air defense facilities, military airfields and military aviation of Ukraine are being disabled by high-precision means of destruction.
However, the Russian forces do not inflict any missile air or artillery strikes on Ukrainian cities.
According to the ministry, military infrastructure, air defense facilities, military airfields and military aviation of Ukraine are being disabled by high-precision means of destruction.
However, the Russian forces do not inflict any missile air or artillery strikes on Ukrainian cities.
TemplarKormac
Political Atheist
So people can see the edit.Ukraine is a UN member. The US is bound by article 5 to assist. If not, the UN is for all intents and purposes, defunct.
(EDIT: This post was made in error. I confused this with NATO Article 5, and Ukraine is not a member of NATO. However, Article 6, Article 27, Article 52 Paragraph 6, and UN Resolution 377 could provide a way for Russia to be expelled from the UN, maybe without China's input)
TemplarKormac
Political Atheist
Is it?The veto power of permanent members is absolute, by design, for situations like this.
United Nations General Assembly Resolution 377 - Wikipedia
" It was adopted 3 November 1950, after fourteen days of Assembly discussions, by a vote of 52 to 5, with 2 abstentions.[2] The resolution was designed to provide the UN with an alternative avenue for action when at least one P5 member is using its veto to obstruct the Security Council from carrying out its functions mandated by the UN Charter."
Procedure aside, how would ejecting Russia serve any good? If they are not a member they are not bound by anything the UN would decide. It would make things worse.I just posted something, though not concrete or ever tried, that could be a way to circumvent a veto. See previous post.
I will look for resolutions passed by the UN during the Korean War, though.
Silver Cat
Gold Member
Do you remember aggression of NATO countries against Serbia in 1999?
TemplarKormac
Political Atheist
Missourian
Diamond Member
President Biden shared details with his late evening phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
"President Zelenskyy reached out to me tonight and we just finished speaking. I condemned this unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces," Biden said.
Biden continued:
"I briefed him on the steps we are taking to rally international condemnation, including tonight at the United Nations Security Council.
www.foxnews.com
"President Zelenskyy reached out to me tonight and we just finished speaking. I condemned this unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces," Biden said.
Biden continued:
"I briefed him on the steps we are taking to rally international condemnation, including tonight at the United Nations Security Council.
Russian forces attacking Kyiv, explosions heard in Ukrainian capital: LIVE UPDATES
Russian forces have closed to within 20 miles of Ukraine's capital, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told lawmakers.
www.foxnews.com
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